The title of this recording is "The Red Ribbon". It is described as: A group of men reflect on why they wear the red ribbon. It was recorded in Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand on the 17th May 1998. This is a podcast recording and features the voices of Calum Bennachie and Douglas Jenkin. Their names are spelt correctly, but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 20 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast a group of men reflect on why they wear the red ribbon. The content in the recording covers the 1990s decade. A brief summary of the recording is: The recording titled "The Red Ribbon," from a podcast dated May 17, 1998, captures a poignant reflection by a group of individuals on the significance of wearing the red ribbon - a symbol of care, compassion, and awareness for those affected by HIV/AIDS. Throughout the podcast, the speakers share personal stories and insights about their connections to the disease, their lost friends and loved ones, and the broader implications of the epidemic, particularly in the 1990s. The significance of the red ribbon is multifaceted. For the speakers, it serves as a reminder of those they've lost, a badge of solidarity amongst those who wear it, and a political statement about HIV/AIDS. It is particularly symbolic of the devastating period in 1994 where multiple individuals were lost in rapid succession, accentuating the gravity of the situation. The ribbon also represents the potential for prevention through safe sex and responsible behavior, highlighting a tragedy that, in the eyes of the speakers, should have been avoided. Throughout the discussions, the speakers touch upon the pervasive misconceptions about living with HIV/AIDS, emphasizing the ordinariness of day-to-day life with the disease. They address the challenges faced by those living with the HIV/AIDS, particularly the fear and stigma associated with "coming out" as HIV-positive, even within the gay community itself. The speakers suggest that even as the gay community strives to unite as one, the presence of the red ribbon is diminishing over time, indicating a potential waning of public interest or awareness as the epidemic continues. Moreover, the podcast captures the pain and complexity of dealing with loss and the ongoing battle against misconceptions and prejudice. The discussion also delves into the harder aspects of the disease, such as the hopelessness that can accompany knowing one's future health trajectory and the despair that can drive someone to choose to end their life rather than face that future. The conversations also touch upon the issues of government response, personal responsibility, and the continued spread of HIV despite available knowledge. This discourse is paralleled with thoughts about the role of activism and the need for ongoing politicization and radicalization to maintain awareness and solidarity in the face of the epidemic. Personal mementos and memories, such as handwriting notes or articles associated with a lost friend, are described alongside expressions of grief and the difficult experiences of attending numerous funerals. Intimate stories illustrate the speakers’ experiences in supporting those suffering and their loved ones, showing care and compassion during the most challenging times. As the podcast concludes, the speakers underscore the fact that the history of HIV/AIDS and the individuals affected by it are embodied within the red ribbon. This simple yet powerful symbol not only represents a span of personal and communal histories, but also a collective fight against HIV/AIDS borne out of love, pride, and a resolve to care for one another. The podcast features voices including Calum Bennachie and Douglas Jenkin and revisits an era that significantly impacted many individuals within Aotearoa New Zealand and globally. The master recording is archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand, and this recording and others can be accessed for posterity, ensuring that the stories, experiences, and memories shared in "The Red Ribbon" endure. The full transcription of the recording follows.  It includes timestamps every thirty seconds in the format [HH:MM:SS].  The transcription begins:  I suppose it's sort of, um, it's about remembering and reminding. Essentially, it's, uh, it's nice when I meet other people who are also wearing them. It's sort of, um, [00:00:30] part of a club, I guess at home, I still got a lot of reminders of run around. Um, sometimes I'll turn up something that's got his handwriting on it. And little knickknacks that he had, um are still there was, um, [00:01:00] Roderick, Who is the other friend who died? Um, yeah, so reminders aren't quite as frequent with him, But if I hear a mention of say, uh, a play that I connect him with that I maybe saw him in, um, or an opera or a singer that we talked about Then [00:01:30] I you'll come to mind, I Oh, yes. You know, I talked about that with Roderick, and he thought this or he said that or, um hm. I have lost several friends to HIV, including ex flatmates. Um, some of these died when I was living in Australia between 88 and 91 right, But many died since there was a particularly [00:02:00] bad period in 94 where we had 10 people die within a period of three months. So it was then the same people were turning up the same funerals time after time after time. And I suppose the ribbon symbolises that it needn't happen essentially, but it is. In fact, it's needless. [00:02:30] I mean, that's what it means to me personally and politically. And it's sort of like, um, a thing about safe sex and about responsibility that goes with the degree of sexual freedom. Um, is that it's actually needn't happen. It needn't have happened if people had known, um and it needn't certainly needn't happen now, 15 years in. I mean, I I've got some good ideas about why it does happen, but, um, it's to remind people that it could and that it does, and that it has. [00:03:00] In 1991 the San Francisco AIDS Foundation started using the red ribbon as a symbol of, um, care and compassion for those living with HIV aids. And it has spread from there right around the world to indicates support of those who are living with HIV aids. When you actually, you know, live with someone with HIV. Um you realise what the, [00:03:30] um well, what a lot of the public misconceptions are, um you know what? What you can do and what you can't do. Um, and for actual day to day living, I mean, everything is pretty much just ordinary. You know, you don't have to wear rubber gloves to wash the dishes or, you know, stuff like that. Um, [00:04:00] and in fact, through, uh, through him and the, you know, the dealings we had with the health service, Um, and the, uh, sort of publications he had and the the brochures, that was really useful. I learned an awful lot from that. There are some people who are positive who do not want it to be known. Um, which must make it quite hard on them. [00:04:30] Um, because it's the whole issue of coming out again and things like that. Who do you tell? Who do you not tell things like that? What are people's reactions going to be like? Because, unfortunately, there are some people even within the gay community who will not speak to someone if they find out that they're HIV positive. And it's those sort of barriers that we do have to break down. [00:05:00] We are. There was a campaign that was run in Melbourne three years ago. Um, positive plus negative is one community things. And we do have to stress that point that, Yes, we are one community. We are all in this together things. We are at risk things. And if we don't take the right precautions, more of us will become positive. The symbol is actually losing its strength. I think over time, fewer, fewer people are wearing it. We've been trying. I mean, now the epidemic is into its 15th year. [00:05:30] So it's very hard to create, um, to politicise around the same issues for that long with the diverse community. But I mean it as a symbol. Initially, it was extremely powerful because, um, it was the first time it had ever been done like that. And it's been imitated quite a lot since, But, um, it was quite a strong symbol, even in its Hollywood use. I think, um, it actually brought to a mass audience people who [00:06:00] were liberals who were trying to make a point about their own community, the arts community, losing people, and I mean, in that sense it was valuable. But personally, it's valuable as well. I mean, it's it's just one of lots of symbols that I mean, I wear lots of other badges. I mean, from you know, someone who who came out in the seventies not long after Stonewall it was It was a typical of the women's movement, the black movement and the gay movement to have symbols. And, um, I think the red ribbon is at the end of that line of symbols were part of that progression. [00:06:30] And, um, it's just it's one of many, and I also wear often with a red ribbon I wear, um, a safe sex badge, which is a condom on A on A. This outline of a Penis and that is is to me is as important as a red ribbon. The two go together after he died. I mean, there were so many things that I had to sort out for myself. In fact, what I did was I. I sat down and and, uh at the computer and wrote a whole, [00:07:00] uh, a whole lot of stuff, pages and pages, uh, both sort of, like narrative of what we'd of the time we'd had together and also just trying to sort everything out. Um, I think that was very useful. Um, and of course, I sort of, you know, talked quite a lot of the time to friends about it. But then it's funny, you know, life moves on, and, um, [00:07:30] I sort of felt that often, you know, friends, even though they're very sympathetic. Don't want to keep hearing about it all the time. Um, and, you know, life moves on for me, too, but, uh, you know, he's still very present. Um, still think about him a lot. Um, [00:08:00] the, um the bedside clock. But he it was his. He'd brought it when he moved in. And, um, it was always extraordinarily difficult to change the time, you know, at, uh, um, daylight saving or something. It was a a real task, and I've still got it. And I still struggle with it every, you know, every daylight saving. Uh, [00:08:30] so, yes, lots of little things like that. They're about history, that about pride. And they're about love. In fact, with, uh, with with my partner, it was, um [00:09:00] I thought I was being really, you know, sensible. I was getting myself as it were mentally prepared for the fact that, um, you know, at some stage he would be, uh, you know, his health would really break down, and, um and then it didn't happen that way at all. Um, [00:09:30] it all came as a uh when he did die came. It was a terrible shock. I wasn't prepared for it at all. The worst time was during the 94 period that three months in 94 when he lost so many and that it got to the stage where you were just so numb from going along to so many funerals that it got to the stage that you weren't really taking it in. And it was sort of like, Who's at this time? [00:10:00] And you were just over a and overpowered by the whole thing. So many in such a short time. Some of them were a little bit older than me. Some were a little bit younger than me, but they were all around my age. Made it particularly difficult. Um, I did a lot [00:10:30] of talking a lot of soul searching, Um, a lot of questioning. In a very strange way. I was sort of looking forward to be able to help him, you know, come to the end of his life. I suppose, um, you know, deal with the, uh, [00:11:00] you know, his body breaking down and and all those things that I'd read about, um and so, yeah, when when he, um he he took his own life. It was just a terrible blow. Um, [00:11:30] you know, there was sort of years that we could have had, um, which, which were gone. Um, and he was in a in a terrible depression, [00:12:00] and I didn't really know entirely what what to do other than to try and get him to get help. Um, to go and see the There was a psychiatrist who was sort of semi attached to the AIDS ward at the hospital. And, um, [00:12:30] so he he did finally agree to go and see see this man and, uh, made an appointment, but, uh, the day of the appointment, he, um he got up and left ostensibly for work and [00:13:00] went and laid down on the railway tracks in front of a train. And, oh, you know, you always ask yourself why, um and it wasn't a a, um and it wasn't driven by [00:13:30] passion or despair or anything like that. It was He thought it out. Um, in a way, this is all sort of separate from HIV. It's more to do with, um, you know, dealing with depression. Um but I'm sure the idea that, um I think he saw what? What The future held. And he was He was a man who was [00:14:00] I mean, he really loved life. He, uh he was full of life and full of energy, and he loved people. And, um and he hated being, um, you know, having to be attached to a drip for hours on end, or going for tests or swallowing pills or all that sort of thing. He hated that. So maybe part of it was that he [00:14:30] he could see what was coming and didn't want to go through with it. I get angry when I see people spreading hatred and lies about people who are HIV positive, whether that be in the form of videos that are put out through people who call themselves Christian, or whether it's through parental attitudes, that they don't want their son [00:15:00] to have anything to do with the rest of their family because he's HIV positive. It's uncaring attitudes like that that make me angry attitudes of the government that say, Well, we've thrown enough money at people with HIV AIDS to pro at gay men to prevent them from getting HIV AIDS. So let's concentrate on another aspect of the community. Um, another thing that makes me angry is when people who, despite the best of intentions and the best messages that go out, specifically go out to [00:15:30] get themselves infected. Um, maybe they don't mean it intentionally to get infected. Maybe that was the wrong choice of words. But people who, despite all the best messages being pushed in their direction about HIV and its um transmission and how to prevent that transmission specifically go out of their way to not listen [00:16:00] to those messages. Hm. Continue to have unsafe sex in many in in various different ways that they can have unsafe sex. Um hm. Just don't care about themselves or other people's lives enough to take the necessary precautions that can prevent HIV from being spread. [00:16:30] It's politicising, um, radicalising, I suppose, Um, a disease. I mean, it's the first disease in history to have its own glossy magazine, which is called S magazine, which is actually very good And so it's, um it's trying to create, um awareness. Or it's trying to generalise the issue to everybody and make it applicable to them rather than than it being isolated to somebody [00:17:00] else. It's always somebody else, regardless of what the event is. So it's actually trying to bring it home, and I think that's a function of it. Um, a lot of men distance themselves from their risk of HIV, and it helps them to remind people of the history of the disease and of people who actually do have it. Still, the fact that people are taking polio inhibitors and they're better for longer doesn't mean that there aren't skinny little men in hospitals which there are. And, um, all of the people who are HIV positive or have AIDS or who have died. [00:17:30] Um uh, symbolised by that ribbon, which is very simple and that simplicity is part of its success, I think, holding him tightly, I held them. I held [00:18:00] them as they looked at their flatmate on the hospital bed, dying. I held him as they looked at their son in his coffin. I held them and let them know that I cared. I held a couple, one of whom was dying, the other of whom was crying. [00:18:30] I'll let them know my care, my support, my compassion for them. That I was there. If they needed me that I was there for them. I held her gently. I supported her. I held her [00:19:00] out of compassion out of care, showing her the support that I was offering for both her and her son. I held him. His skin felt soft, warm, yielding. I helped him with care. [00:19:30] I help him with compassion. I held him in sorrow. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 1990s ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Australia ; Calum Bennachie ; Douglas Jenkin ; HIV / AIDS ; Hollywood ; Melbourne ; New Zealand AIDS Foundation (NZAF) ; People ; San Francisco ; Stuff ; Wellington ; Women's Movement ; arts ; audience ; barriers ; change ; choice ; coffin ; coming out ; community ; compassion ; connect ; crying ; depression ; energy ; family ; fat ; freedom ; friends ; future ; gay ; gloves ; government ; health ; history ; hospital ; love ; mental health ; narrative ; opera ; other ; passion ; programme ; protease inhibitors ; psychiatrist ; questioning ; relationships ; running ; safe sex ; sex ; strength ; stress ; struggle ; success ; support ; time ; work. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/the_red_ribbon.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089132. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.