The title of this recording is "The beginnings of PrideNZ. com". It is described as: Alison Day interviews Gareth Watkins, the founder of PrideNZ, about the website and how it came about. It was recorded in Rutherford House, 33 Bunny Street, Wellington, Wellington on the 7th February 2023. Gareth Watkins is being interviewed by Alison Day.  Their names are spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 37 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: Alison Day interviews Gareth Watkins, the founder of PrideNZ, about the website and how it came about. Alison is currently a Doctoral candidate at the School of Information Management at Te Herenga Waka - Victoria University of Wellington. Alison is investigating what has been put in place over time to document LGBTTFIQ communities by GLAMU (Galleries, Libraries, Archives, Museums and Universities) and the subsequent effects on LGBTTFIQ independent archiving. The second part of the research will look into the nature of the relationships that exist between LGBTTFIQ donors, LGBTTFIQ independent archives and GLAMU institutions. The content in the recording covers the decades 1990s through to the 2020s. A brief summary of the recording is: This recording contains an interview with Gareth Watkins, the founder of PrideNZ. com, a platform documenting LGBTTFIQ communities. The conversation, facilitated by Alison Day, a Doctoral candidate at Te Herenga Waka - Victoria University of Wellington, was recorded in February 2023. PrideNZ. com originated in the mid-1990s as a personal mission by Watkins, who yearned to tell the stories of the rainbow community and understand personal and communal identities. The advent of the internet and streaming services in the late '90s provided Watkins with new platforms to distribute documentaries and audio stories. Watkins detailed the transition from distributing CDs to utilizing streaming services and how this embraced the concept that diversity had been historically overlooked. By the mid-2000s, Watkins directed documentaries like the 20-year retrospective on homosexual law reform, revealing the critical role of community archives in providing a more comprehensive account of history, compared to the limited holdings in state archives. Watkins’ strategy was to ensure the sustainability of PrideNZ. com by remaining the primary operator, avoiding the internal challenges community organizations often face. Their work involved not only creating content but also coding the website and learning database management. Despite being a solo endeavor, PrideNZ. com would not have thrived without the contributions and stories from the community. Nevertheless, matters of donations and long-term preservation were redirected to permanent repositories like the National Library. The content on PrideNZ. com ranges from profile interviews and historical events to recordings of community happenings, ensuring a rich repository of varied rainbow voices. The tagging system and AI-generated transcriptions were implemented to make content more accessible, aligning with current terminology and user-search trends. The future of PrideNZ. com involves connecting with other archives and utilizing the content for educational purposes, aligning with New Zealand's history curriculum. Watkins stressed the enduring importance of rainbow archives and shared content among multiple archives, such as the National Library and the Library of Congress. This decentralized approach is meant to ensure the content's longevity and availability. A poignant aspect of the interview was the feedback from a listener in the USA, who found solace in the CDs sent by Watkins in the late '90s, showcasing the profound and personal impact of PrideNZ. com's work. This underscores the unseen yet significant influence such archives can have on individuals, even years later. Spanning the 1990s to the 2020s, PrideNZ. com represents a dynamic tapestry of the LGBTTFIQ experience, adapting technology and commitment to ensure narratives are heard and preserved. Watkins' reflections captured in the interview highlight the site's organic growth, its response to societal shifts, and the continued evolution of documenting rainbow communities. The full transcription of the recording begins:  So pride NZ, uh, really was, uh, very organic. And it started way back in the 19 nineties, I think. Uh, so I began in public media in, uh, 1990. Uh, and I came out as gay in 1992. Um, and around about 1995 I really wanted to start making documentaries around the gay experience because at the time, there was no internet, uh, getting kind of, um, experiences or hearing experiences of what it was like to be rainbow in a rainbow community. I found really hard. Um, there was some broadcasting, Uh, there was a community radio station in Wellington called Wellington Access Radio that had both, um, a lesbian programme and a gay programme on it. Um, and as a, um, technician in, um um in, In, in broadcasting. Um, I actually worked on some of those broadcasts. It was one of the things you did. Um, at the time, I wasn't out, and it was quite interesting because I always felt kind of like to be associated with a gay programme. Was just like, Oh, my God. You know, um and and I think you know, it just shows you how um, ingrained and entrenched homophobia is and you don't even realise it when you're growing up. And then, you know, when you're put in those positions, it's like, Oh, you know, going into the same studio, you know, I suddenly turn, don't know. Um but yeah. So mid nineties I, I started thinking, Oh, I really want to, you know, kind of understand myself, understand community. So I started doing, um, some audio documentaries and I tried to approach Radio New Zealand and say, Can we broad? You know, would you like to broadcast these? And I got a very stern no, uh, from a, um, a radio executive saying that, you know, if we give, uh, a broadcast opportunity to one community, then other communities will want it to. I was thinking, Well, what's wrong with that? But it's It's like actually, no, we can't. We can't allow single communities to have a voice. Um, which that kind of rejection, um, didn't stop me. It it kind of spurred me on. And this was at a time when the internet was very, very new. And so I started doing documentaries, putting them onto CD and sending them overseas to overseas broadcasters. So there was a um, for instance, there's a There's a queer radio station in Melbourne called, uh, joy FM. Uh, there was a syndicated news programme called This Way Out. I think that came from Los Angeles. Um and so I was kind of distributing that way. And then in around 97 the Internet started developing streaming services. So it's amazing to think about nowadays that there aren't the the, you know, for a long time there weren't streaming services. Um, but 1997 there was a website called free speech dot org. And that was user generated content, uh, multimedia content for the first time ever. First site to ever do it. Um, and so I started putting my documentaries on that. So not not only was I, um, supplying broadcasters and and private individuals with copies of the documentaries, but also, um uh, via via streaming as well. And it was just that idea of, um, wanting not to be alone, you know, wanting to understand myself, wanting to understand my place. Um, and also the people I was talking to had the most amazing lives, You know, that that they were so rich and so interesting. And, um, it was such a kind of an untapped area. And I thought RNZ was so foolish not to, not to to tap into that area. And nowadays, of course, you know, 20 twenties. Um, diversity is all the thing, and And you think actually, um, those voices were always there. You just weren't listening. Well, you weren't listening well, more than you weren't listening. You You're actually actively saying no. We don't want to hear you. Um, so that's that. That's kind of interesting. So jumping forward, uh, we had, uh the internet was getting more and more connected. And, um, by the kind of two thousands streaming, uh, was becoming a lot more kind of financially, um, available, uh, so that that that that was the kind of technology side, um, running alongside that, uh, I was still in public radio. Uh, I was, uh, moving into community access radio, and that was a really interesting area, because in 2006, I made a documentary on homosexual law reform. So that happened in 1985 1986 in New Zealand. And it was a 20 years, 20 year retrospective. And what I found was that, um, being in the public broadcaster, I was able to get into the Public Broadcasters archive, and what I found was that they only had, um, audio of politicians speaking about the community. They had people talking about the community. They didn't have any kind of community events or audio from the community. And this is where the wonderful lesbian and gay archives came in. Because the lesbian and gay archives held lots of audio, uh, from community members who had gone out and done recordings for things like gay BC and the Lesbian Community Programme on radio. And they had gone and had been at events, been at rallies, been at protests, and it really just showed me that actually, the state broadcaster was recording one point of view, but it wasn't necessarily the community's point of view. And so this is the benefit of access community stations. And this is the benefit of community archives that actually, um if you were just to rely on the state archive, um, or archives you you're not going to get the full picture. So 2006, that was and then I actually moved into being programme director at Wellington Access Radio, which gave me the opportunity of doing a Churchill fellowship. And so I went to California, and this is in 2008, uh, 2007, 2008. And I looked at community media in California, and that was amazing. I mean, there were there were so many amazing initiatives that were happening, and a lot of it was just grassroots. Um, you know that people have an idea, and they just they just went for it. And, you know, there were things like, um uh, youth radio in Oakland, which had started just through the idea of one journalist saying, We want more kind of youth voices. And by the time I saw it in 2008, it was a kind of a multi story, a holistic broadcaster. But more than a broadcaster had offered support services for youth in Oakland. Just amazing amazing things. And I came back from that. And the biggest kind of takeaway was, um, actually at the end when I was in the, uh, San Francisco airport and there was a, um, uh, a banner that said, um, change is inevitable growth is optional. And I thought yes, absolutely. Because what all those media outlets in California taught me was that change was coming or change is always happening. Um, and there is an opportunity for new media creators to be creating things. This is really the growth of, um, kind of Internet distribution of content. You know, this is where we're starting to see the the the startings of, like YouTube and the social media sites and really taking the power out of, um, kind of state broadcasters or corporate broadcasters and giving it to the individual really exciting stuff. So I came back 2008, and I applied to New Zealand on air for funding to set up Initially, Um, it was called pride NZ dot com, and it was going to be a syndicated radio show on the access stations for Rainbow content. And it was going to be the first ever syndicated radio show across 12 stations weekly, uh, with regional reporters doing stuff and I applied twice and twice got rejected. And the big thing from New Zealand on air was you need to find a commercial, um, partner radio station like, uh, a a commercial network. Say, like M or B, uh, to give the audience. You know, we don't want to support a minority thing That's not going to be heard by a lot of people. I've always thought that actually, that was the reason for New Zealand on air they would support stuff that wouldn't be commercially viable. Um, but, um, in this case, that that didn't didn't happen. Um, and it was going to be a radio show, but it was also going to be a website, and they were again. It would be that that first kind of stages of web interaction where people are interacting with websites, commenting, sharing all that kind of stuff, One of the things with rejection that can either knock you down or it can actually inspire you to keep and keep going and doing something else. So, actually, when I think of, you know, the rejection from Radio New Zealand in terms of not wanting to have, um queer content on and the rejection of New Zealand on air inspired me to to just do it myself. And, um, that's the kind of the genesis of pride and Z, uh, that I then got a domain name in 2009 and started very much just putting up, um, the documentaries I've done in the nineties and then kind of built from there. Um, and it was very much organic, so I didn't quite know what it was at the start. And it was just like, Well, just keep keep doing stuff and keep, you know, trying it. And, um and and and basically that that how it came into being Wow. So was that just, um, just you or was anybody else involved in the initial setup, or is anybody else ever been involved with you? Uh uh. Primarily it's it's been just just me. Um and that has been a bit of a conscious decision, because at the time I was at Wellington access Radio in the mid two thousands, I saw how community organisations can really implode, um, through, you know, whether it's a, um, an incorporated society or a trust that actually, um, in a lot of communities, there are a lot of many different voices, and they can actually be quite, um, corrosive, um, as well as supportive. But my experiences that had been, um, that that actually, a lot of time is spent, and a lot of things can just stop. So, II, I thought, actually, I just wanna start it. Keep going with it, um, and not kind of build it into a kind of a huge structure and not put it into a kind of society form. Um, and And I think back on the, um, the the the media outlets in California. And that was very much they were community, um, focused, but they had a professional layer core staff, you know, basically the technology professionally run. But it was very much community focused. And, you know, that's the kind of model that I really was interested in in in, in looking at, um, so I, I never really kind of went down that kind of trust or incorporated society. I can see real benefits for it, but I've I've also seen things that just, you know, completely wipe out, um, or suck, You know, the life out of things. Um and I thought I, I just I don't want to be a part of that. I wanna I wanna create something that's positive. That is useful. Um, and I want to put all my energy into that kind of pushing forward, you know, rather than kind of, um, litigating this or that, Um, so I am, I guess, the whole curatorial side of things and what's recorded and what's not recorded, I'm sure. You know, in 2030 years time, somebody will come back and say, Oh, you know, you should have been doing this, or you should have been doing that. And I think, Well, no one was stopping anyone else from doing it, you know? I mean, it was my own money that that created it financially. Generally, most of it. Um, although I've had some some grants for particular projects, but but generally the ongoing cost is, uh, my own, uh, the finances. And there's nothing stopping anyone from doing a similar thing. And I've always wondered why people, particularly in in places like Auckland, where there is so much happening, why there aren't more of these kind of websites because actually, the the stories are there, the people are there. The you know, the inspiration is there. Um, it's a lot easier now in terms of, uh, the technology and how much it costs. And, you know, you can do your own editing at home. You know, you can just buy a a recorder for a couple of $100. Um, you can record on your phone. You know, it it it it actually I I I don't think necessarily the financial or the techno technology nowadays, uh, that those challenges are as great as what they were say back in the two thousands. Um, so yes. So basically it it's it's kind of me kind of like, um kind of running it and and also, um, hand coding the the website, you know, learning how to make a database, learning how to, um, do tagging and all that kind of stuff. It's been really valuable for me in terms of my own career, because actually, in doing that, um, you know, you get a whole lot of other skills and again I, I kind of wonder why other people haven't kind of gone gone down down that that road. Um, having said that, it was me, me, me, um, it the the the the Pride Z site would not exist without the input and the stories of the people that have been interviewed and the interviewers uh, that, you know, either commissioned or they've kind of volunteered their time. Um, while I may may have created that kind of that base infrastructure and kind of maintained it, Actually, it's the content, the content of the community. And if it hadn't been for the community, the site wouldn't exist. So it's been a real labour of love for you. Oh, yeah, Yeah. And continues to be absolutely. And And I guess that's one of the reasons why I didn't want to go down. That kind of, uh, say incorporated society, uh, route because I would hate, you know, like, 20 years down the track to then have it have it kind of, um, you know, turned on you, which I've seen happen in a number of different organisations and and, you know, and then you're left thinking, Oh, I've just spent 20 years doing this and and it's been pulled out from underneath me, and I thought, No, I suppose one of the things for the community archives is sustainability. And I suppose with you just being the sort of mainly the sole person and probably to fund it yourself, that sort of makes it a little um, you know, it can impact on the sustainability. Sort of like medium long term. What would you say? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I. I think, um, a lot of community organisations are often driven by one or two individuals, and, um, there's a real fragility. Uh uh with a lot of organisations, you know, it just takes one or two key people to go sick or say I'm not doing this anymore, and it completely falls over. And I think you can see, um, time and time again. And in kind of rainbow communities, those those, um, those groups and organisations that they they come and they go, um and particularly I've seen it. And and even just in individuals, when they, uh, say, uh, organisers of pride, uh, events or, um, pride parades or or what have you? Um, people only tend to last, you know, one or two times before they get burnt out, it's it's a there's a really high turnover, and and again, I wanted to make something that was sustainable. So I wanted to create a website that didn't need a lot of, um, maintenance. Um, that actually if I had time to go and do audio recordings and interviews. I would give that time if I didn't. It didn't matter. So So it kind of EMP and flowed. So, um, when you look at the amount of audio produced in, say 2013 1st, 2016, there's a difference. Because actually, my life was different in 2016. So um yeah, II. I wanted to make it that actually it was sustainable that actually, if I didn't have the time to do anything for a month, um, it wouldn't be an issue, you know, the site would just be by itself. Um, So just going to thinking about the NZ website. What? What types of material have you got on there? Um what do you actually put up there? What do you Yeah, well, the the the There's a whole range of things. So originally it started off with interviews with with people so so profile interviews and interviews about organisations. Um, because I was very aware that organisations come and go and change over time, Um, and then moved into kind of event recordings. And, uh so we're talking about, you know, pride events. We're talking about kind of aids. Uh, memorial events. Uh, we're talking about panel discussions, anything where rainbow queer ideas were happening. And, um, I I found those kind of event recordings just so rich because, I mean, you get such a diverse range of of voices and opinions, uh, and you you can cover a lot of bases. So, I, I now would tend to, um, go for recording it, uh, say events, uh, like out in the city, uh, out in the park. Uh, because you, you know, you you are actually getting maybe 20 or 30 interviews with a whole range of different people. Uh, which means that it's a lot easier to kind of, um to kind of manage. So there's the the the audio side of things. Um, alongside that there's some, um, not a huge amount, But there is some kind of photography from pride events as well. Um, there's a huge archive from gay nz dot com. Um, they were a news site. Uh, um, a daily news site that went from about 2000 to 2017. 18,000 articles, just as they were ending. They said, um, you know the community can republish these articles, Um, and and as long as you attribute to where they're from, uh, NZ was, uh, an amazing or is an amazing resource. I mean, it was incredible that they were able to go for 18 years, uh, doing a daily news site and I, I think, certainly, um, you know, we are more the poorer for not having that kind of daily queer lens on stuff. Um, there's also, um, just over time of, of, of developed and and kind of, um found, uh, lots of information relate on specific events. So we so making a timeline of kind of rainbow history in New Zealand, I think at the moment it's around about 2, 2. 5 1000 entries. I mean, you know, I would never you know, 20 years ago, I would never have known that there was this amazing queer heritage, and and and now to have it online and even, um, you know, it will never be complete, because, I mean, there's always stuff that's happened that we may never know about. Um, but actually what a what a kind of, um, starting point for people to go and do their own research. Um, and what else we got? We've got a map, which is kind of like, um, geographic, you know, plotting, um, rainbow heritage on on a map of New Zealand, which is, um, really cool. A lot of this data, um, is then made freely available. And, um, it was, you know, one of the things that really inspired me is actually, um, not only kind of having doing the recordings, but actually then making it accessible to as many people as possible and to making it freely available in a noncommercial way. And so, you know, um, things like N really inspired me to go. Well, actually, you know, 18,000 articles that have written and they're saying, you know, as long as you don't play plagiarise this, you know, credit where credit is due, but actually use it in a non-commercial way. Um, So things like that and and and earlier, um, kind of media creators have done a similar thing. And so a lot of the data on Friday and is is is released under a creative Commons licence, um, so that people actually can, you know, use it and, um, do their own things with it, which is really kind of cool. It is. It is very cool. So does anybody else collect this material? Um, that, you know, of within the sort of, um, communities, or is is pride pretty unique in this respect? I know that there are a number of, um, media, um, creators A around the country, like like particularly people like, um, Andrew Whiteside in Auckland. Um, who was, uh, responsible for, um, an amazing TV show in the 19 nineties. It was a weekly kind of queer queer, um, news report and magazine programme, Um, but has subsequently gone on to do kind of like, uh, you know, blog posts and and interviews. So Andrew does that. I'm not aware of another website that is actively going out doing audio recordings and then putting them online, I think. More. There are more people doing research, interviews and oral history interviews that then go into, um, either a national library or or somewhere else. And that's quite different, I think from Pride NZ. So one of the key things with pride NZ is that, um, the recordings are for immediate publication, So it's not if if somebody says, Oh, I don't want this known for 20 years. I will say, Don't tell me. I don't want to know. Um, because the the whole thing is actually, um, making things accessible now so that people can hear their own voices or voices that are similar to theirs and stories that are similar to their, whereas in oral history, Um, it's a bit like, um I remember doing oral history training, and they were talking about, you know, it's like peeling an onion, isn't it? You know, you go over and over the same things and get more and more facts and get really, um, really into the specifics And I don't think, uh, pride NZ is kind of like that. Um I think both have their place. Uh, but I, I would rather see, um, the stuff that I'm doing kind of out there in the public and and being, you know, publicly heard, uh, but I think there's a lot more kind of that kind of research research for books, research, publications, research for films. Um, and then that material is then being either deposited in somewhere like or, um, National Library. So just got a few questions from all of this. So, um, so thinking about sort of donations, Has anybody any other organisations or people donated things to to you, or do you just tend? Is it mainly just you going out to collect or whoever collecting interviews, mainly, It's about collecting, um, or or, um uh, hiring someone to go and do a project. A particular project. Um, so, yeah, there have been a number of projects where we've got some, you know, wonderful grants from people like places like the Rule Foundation, um, et cetera, where they've given money for a specific project, which is really fantastic. Uh, I've really kind of shied away from, um, wanting donations because I think pride DN is very much a, um, kind of a contemporary repository. I wouldn't go as far as saying it's a archive in the long term, because if it's just me with, you know, when I go, well, then it will stop. Um, and this is the the reason why it's important to get it into a permanent repository. So like, um, the the National Library. And so So I've really, um kind of really tried to not ask for donations. That becomes problematic. as well. Um, in terms of in terms of, um, holding donated material is because then, uh, you've got permissions. You've got privacy. You know, uh, you've got reuse. You know, when somebody gives something to you, you know, how can you reuse it? How do I stay in contact with you in terms of if somebody else wants to reuse it, It just gets very, um, murky very quickly. And, um, that that I'm not set up for that. So if somebody says to me, Oh, I've got stuff I need to donate. I'll say, Go like ans go to Papa, go National library, Whatever, Um and and and give them, um, some options because actually informing them, Saying Well, actually, you know, if you're looking at something like, say, textiles, um, probably better to go with Papa because actually, they've got amazing textile conservators. They've got the the the the, um, infrastructure to look after that material. Um, so it's not going Oh, you should go to this particular archive or that particular archive. It's kind of just going well, what kind of what kind of material do you have And have a think about this thinking about because, um So how do you find things on your website? So if you wanted to find a particular audio interview, how would you go about that? What's your system? So the system, um, has kind of grown organically? Uh um, Originally, it was just the audio, and it was a title and very hard to find stuff. And then I started keyword keyword tagging. So I've just started going listening to the audio and just putting tags in there to kind of, um, connect audio together, but also so that Google or a search engine actually can find material. So I'm tagging from the perspective of a user. So, um, or a listener. So it's not necessarily how the interviewee or person speaking would identify themselves, but it's It's kind of like going Oh, actually, um, this this audio relates to transgender issues or gay issues or whatever, Um, and and then that will help the listener. And then, uh, about a year or two ago, I started getting auto transcriptions, so there's a, um, a website that does a I transcriptions, and it doesn't particularly like the New Zealand accent. Um, but it is getting better, but what it does do It gives you a general sense of what's in the in the in the recordings. That has been amazing for, um, getting people through Google because, uh, you've now got a text based version of, uh, the audio not completely. Not perfect. But, um, it will give a lot more entry points to people finding that information. So, um, that's, uh, that's kind of the transcriptions. And then the third step along from that is I basically took my dictionary of tags and I took the A I transcriptions and said, uh, do any of these tags come in the A. I transcription? And if yes, they become the auto generated tags, Um so So now there's a kind of, um, you know, kind of a three step process to actually identifying information. Has anybody objected to any of the terminology on the tax at all or OK, I haven't had anyone object to the terminology, and I mean, that's such a moving feast, isn't it? In terms of, you know, like I mean, you know, over 10 years, um and I'm not sure if it's just because people you know, I haven't really taken an active interest. I mean, I, I certainly I would take something down, or I would untasted to To the person speaking. Um, So my big thing is actually the person that has the right to say whether they want to be up online, how they're identified, how they're described is the person speaking, Um, secondarily, you know, if there are, um, people around, you know, if that person is no longer here, I would listen to, you know, the people around them, But I'm very aware of, um, just in in, you know, my kind of professional life in terms of, um, working in kind of cultural institutions of, um, families are actually actively wanting to cleanse the slate of of, uh, of of rainbow heritage for a particular person, you know, whether they're getting rid of diaries with, um, controlling access requirements. So, uh, yeah, but I haven't actually had anyone come to me and say, please take out that tag. I have had people come and say, please remove my name from the podcast. Um, in terms of the text, Uh, because that comes up in Google. And, um, I've had a number of people say, you know, I I'm going for a job. The first hit on Google is this Pride NZ thing from 12 years ago. Um, I don't want that. I don't mind the audio being there, but I don't want to be the first hit in Google. OK, and, um, just thinking about sort of people, you know, you the you interview. How do How do you find people to interview and how do you decide which projects you're going to do? Uh, look at it. It change. It's changed over time. Um, so in some way, sometimes it's quite useful to go Well, actually to, um, you know, we want to do a project looking at organisations. What are the organisations out there in Wellington at the moment? And, um what are they doing? You know what? What kind of things are they doing for the rainbow communities? Other times that say, looking at youth very much into, um, peer interviewing. So a 50 year old interviewing an 18 year old is not going to work so well, I don't think so. Actually, getting a youth interviewer to interview a youth, um participant is is a really good way. Um, because just the the the questions people ask is are different. You know, it's like, actually, um, sometimes, yeah, you You don't even know what questions to ask. And and so I think a lot of it is about getting the right interviewer in the right situations. Likewise with, um, particular communities. So, like, I would, um, you know, there are There are spaces where actually a white CIS male is not particularly welcome. Fine. I mean, I'm I have no problem with that at all. And And I think, actually, um what a privilege to be able to have a recording of that space or people in that space that I can learn from, You know, um so, uh, yeah, it's it's it's about, um, kind of going, well, what's on offer at the moment. In terms of like, who's available? Um, really important to get older people, uh, before they pass and before their memories start going, um, and really important to get younger people so that you can see the progression. So, like, um, there's a It's actually not on pride. N. But there was a, um, an interview done with, um all as as a teenager, Um, that I've heard And isn't it amazing that now? Now, um, she's an MP. Um, And to hear her back, uh, as a teenager, um, is is is really quite something. So I think it it just depends on what's out there and just being open to the possibilities, I guess. Yeah, Yeah. Are there any sort of, um, areas like? And if you found any gaps in your collection you'd like to address or are you sort of happy with the representation that's on your website or Yeah, it uh, yeah. So, um, that probably goes back to that whole thing of not being a, um, incorporated society or a trust. Uh, so, uh, I, I don't know if it represents I. I don't think you can ever represent all of rainbow culture because, I mean, we're so diverse, so diverse. I mean, I try and get as much representation as possible, and, uh, but I'm sure somebody in 20 years time will go. Ah, completely missed that. And yeah, so So it kind of depends on one. Whether I've got the time, Whether I can find somebody else to go and do the recording. Whether the participants want to be recorded I mean, I've had, you know, the the There are numerous people that don't want to be recorded. Don't don't want to share. That's fine. You know that? That, um it doesn't mean we haven't tried, so it's kind of like actually the, uh what you see on the website is not all of the, uh it it it doesn't recognise some of the things that haven't happened. And so we we will We will never know, will we? I mean, we we we won't know what those interviews we tried to get, but we couldn't get We're gonna be like So what's, um what are your plans for private and Z now, going forward. I think we're in such an exciting time in terms of connecting different websites together through and different collections together And what that will tell us. And, um II, I I'm really wanting to do like, more recordings. Uh, not just keep recording for recordings sake, but then looking at how do these recordings on Pride NZ, um, interact with other collections? I'm really looking forward to when, um, places, like say, uh, develop their online presence so that we can start combining the different collections and going well, actually, we you know, we've got stuff talking about gay live in the seventies. I've got posters. Wouldn't be amazing if we can bring those two together. Um, you know, you think of all the different kind of possibilities in terms of, uh, educational use, because we've got the new curriculum history curriculum in schools. Um, wouldn't it be amazing to be able to start using this material and, um, yeah, in, in making kind of history come alive? So do you still see a place for, um, like, sort of rainbow archives in New Zealand in the future? Yes. Absolutely. Yeah, because, um, I one of the other key things with pride and material is I have pushed it into at least three or four different archives because I don't want one single archive being the arbiter of who can access it and whether it survives. So things like going into the national Library going into, um, the web archive going into the library of Congress, Um, and whether people can actually just download, um, the MP threes themselves as high quality MP threes. Um, that means that this material is going to survive in some kind of form. Who knows how it's going to survive? I mean, I'm I'm I'm I'm going for the best possible options that are available at the time. Um, but it will survive in in in some form. Um, there is one thing I would I would love to read as a as an ending because I think it kind of ties us all together in that, um so going back to the nineties when I was sending out C DS, uh, to to people, um, and to organisations. And in 2020 I got an email back from somebody that received those C DS in 1997. And this person was from Arkansas and they wrote to me saying I received the C DS from you during a very trying time in my life, I was wrestling to fit into the life of a gay man in the American South. Life had been a roller coaster for me for years, from bullying in high school to death threats to being thrown out of my home by my family and a loss of almost all of my friends to an attempt at suicide. My life was just starting to get on track. When I received the C DS from you, I would listen to them on Repeat, during my daily commute, the voices calmed me and made me feel like part of a larger community, albeit a community I didn't have access to in Arkansas. I laughed with them and I cried with them. They allowed me to stay in touch with the core part of me that I didn't want to deny anymore. So I guess what I'm saying is, thank you. And I know these audio files were probably just a small part in your life, but for me, they were a beacon of hope. And I think, uh, receiving that, um, feedback in 2020 was just the most amazing thing because, actually, I think that was the whole essence of, you know, the stuff I was doing in the nineties. The stuff on Pride NZ is we don't know what effect this is having on the people listening now and in the future. And and maybe in 2050 years time, um, somebody will go. Oh, I remember hearing that conversation or that panel discussion. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 1990s ; 2000s ; 2010s ; 2020s ; Alison Day ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Arkansas ; Auckland ; California ; Events ; Gareth Watkins ; God ; Homosexual Law Reform ; Job ; Lesbian and Gay Archives of New Zealand (LAGANZ) ; Library of Congress ; Los Angeles ; Melbourne ; National Library of New Zealand ; Older People ; People ; Radio New Zealand ; Rule Foundation ; Rutherford House ; San Francisco ; Space ; Stuff ; United States of America ; Wellington ; Wellington Access Radio ; Youth ; access ; airport ; archives ; audience ; benefits ; books ; broadcasting ; bullying ; career ; change ; cis ; cis male ; community ; community radio ; connect ; conversation ; culture ; data ; death ; difference ; distribution ; diversity ; documentary ; email ; energy ; essence ; family ; finances ; free speech ; freespeech. org ; friends ; funding ; future ; gay ; growing up ; hate ; heritage ; history ; hit ; homophobia ; homosexual ; hope ; individual ; inspiration ; internet ; interviewing ; law ; lesbian ; library ; listening ; loss ; love ; media ; memorial ; minority ; news ; opportunity ; oral history ; other ; peer interviewing ; photography ; podcast ; posters ; power ; pridenz. com ; privacy ; privilege ; profile ; programme ; queer ; radio ; rainbow ; rejection ; representation ; research ; resource ; respect ; roller ; running ; saying no ; school ; social ; social media ; spaces ; speech ; structure ; suicide ; support ; sustainability ; tax ; technology ; threats ; ties ; time ; touch ; training ; transgender ; trust ; voice ; website ; work. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/the_beginnings_of_pridenz.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1093092. Gareth Watkins also features audibly in the following recordings: "Gareth Watkins - Rainbow Touchstones", "Rainbow Pride Community Honours (2015) - Part 3", "Emma Kelly and Gareth Watkins - POPCAANZ presentation", "Group Programme (March 2016)- Pride Audio Collective", "Leaving a Legacy", "Library of Congress archives PrideNZ.com", "Our Stonewall", "Resonance walk tour", "Turquoise walk tour - Wellington, New Zealand", "Yellow walk tour - Wellington, New Zealand", "Violet walk tour - Wellington, New Zealand", "Gareth Watkins and Roger Smith - Chrissy Witoko and Carmen Rupe memorial seats", "Gareth Watkins on Queer Radio Brisbane", "Chosen Family Night panel", "Introduction to Pride NZ" and "Tour of Out in the City 2024". Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.