The title of this recording is "Snapshot 2000 - first same-sex experience". It was recorded in Aotearoa New Zealand, Oceania in 2000. The duration of the recording is 47 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast compilation participants talk about their first same-sex experiences. The audio recording begins:  My first sexual experience was through an A place. Um, I was extremely, extremely nervous. I knew I always wanted to be with another guy, but to be quite honest, I didn't really know what to do or how to go about doing it or how I should feel. I can always remember the ride driving to this guy's place. I was just shaking I. I knew I wanted to do it, but I didn't know what I would do when I got there. And we ended up just kissing for about two hours solid. And we both ended up with really sore lips. And that was my first encounter. I saw this guy again. I. I don't know why, but we contacted each other again and we managed to fumble around. I suppose you'd call it, Um, we both took off all our clothes and played with each other, and but that was the extent of what happened. It's just the thing. Once as you get older and the more you do it, you you learn what you like and you tend to head more towards that. But in those early days, I really had no idea. Um, I had a lot of conflict. Um, doing it simply because I had always been brought up a Christian and it was always, always a big issue. I've I've done the wrong thing. I felt really dirty really bad. Um, at the time, my parents did not know and there was no one really I could talk to. I could talk to my best friend who I came out to, but as he wasn't gay, he really had very little interest and wasn't really into listening about me and my first gay sexual experience. It took a while for the bad feeling to go. But once the feeling of guilt went and I actually started realising, Well, the hell I I did actually enjoy it. It made me feel a lot better. I suppose my first real sexual experience was with somebody in my secondary school, which is a school you go to from the age of 11 to 15 in the UK. And it was AAA chap, a lad called Matthew, and we were the same age, and we had to go on a camping trip. And in this country, that means intense er, not intense, but actually under canvas but it was pretty intense and we ended up travelling to this site in the middle of a mall in Cornwall again, very remote, very windy, very wet. And it was single sex tent and Matthew and I had always played together and hung out and done stuff and gone into town together in the lunch hour and just had a good time. And there was that spark that you probably can't explain or understand. But you know it's better. Is that that that it's that intense, mind numbing sort of electric spark between you, that excitement and you can't quite define it because he's never experienced it. You don't know what's going to come. And so we were at this campsite camping, doing the things that teachers make you do when you're a kid, like rescuing barrels out of ropes of, you know, ropes that are supposed to be lakes and all that sort of malarkey. And nighttime came, and Matthew said to me, just as we were all getting in there, thinking, Why don't you come and lay next to me? And I thought, Yeah, why not? I normally I lay next to my best friend, Ben, but No. I went to lay with Matthew, not lay with him in the biblical sense, but lay next to him and, um, I was we went to sleep and there was the usual sort of laddish laughter that you get and playing around. And in the middle of the night I felt his hand on my sleeping bag and I was sort of filled with an sort of a a again, an anti anticipation and an excitement, and I reciprocated. It was the old tag game that I. I think I've read that a lot of first time sexual relationships are based on is that you touch me here. I'll touch you there and and it continued and hands went under sleeping bags and I'm in. One particularly emotive and and exciting point was that we were writing words on each other's stomach cos we couldn't talk because we had to be absolutely silent. You have to remember that Cornwall was not a place that was greatly respectful of of things that weren't the norm, IE sleeping with relatives and driving tractors. So we had to be very, very quiet about it. So we were spelling out words on each other's bodies, which was intensely erotic, Um, not intentionally, but through necessity. But sometimes things that you do through necessity are out of nature erotic. And it was sort of Are you enjoying this? Yes, I am. Obviously, it took a very long period of time. But the one thing I suppose, the one thing we we never completed that sexual act as as you would probably reading science book. And maybe that was a little part of my insecurity, not wanting to give everything away at once. So I just pretended to fall asleep and and the next morning we woke up, and it was as if nothing ever happened. Until a couple of weeks later, when it became a relationship that lasted for some years. My first proper sexual experience, as in a deliberate sexual experience with another man alone, would have been with my friend Michael, and it was like a deliberate act I. I had gone to visit my friend Peter. As it was. Peter and Michael were brothers. Peter was my good friend through high school, one of my very best friends, and I knew it was Peter's birthday. I went to visit him, but Michael was visiting as well with Peter a happy Birthday and offered Michael a left home with the distinct idea in my head that Michael could be interested in doing sex. And as I dropped Michael off, not too far away from that house where he was living at the time. So Michael gave me a kiss. Good night. And then he just leaned over and he put his hand on my leg, went slide down to my groyne, stopped me going hard. And he said, I think you'd better come inside. So even though we were a bit pissed at the time, uh, I remember it being enjoyable. Mark was such a a comfortable, friendly person, and he wasn't at all demanding. He was very patient, and it was good fun. I stayed the night, um, we had breakfast, fell out to his flat mates. It was a totally positive, enjoyable experience, and there certainly wasn't even the expectation that more has to come with this. It was a case of This is a good thing for us to do. We'll do it and you know we'll see each other again because we're in the same social circles. But I thought that was a really positive way to start. And to, uh, to go from there in terms of knowing that, like, trust and friendship and enjoyment can go to sex. The first times was, um I think in, uh, 97 like, around October 97 I met that guy on the Internet. Uh, he's British. And, um, I talked to him. And then, like, I was trying to experience what gay, uh, sexes. And, uh, I talked to him and I went to his apartment, and then we talk, and then we got really interested in each other. So, um, we did K. And then, um, we went to or or And then, um, I didn't know anything about anything at all. I was kind of nervous and wanting to experience stuff. And I told him, like I as I seen in a porn, I want to have an And then he said he won't do it because, um um I think, uh, you know, he he's really he sort of cares for me because I'm still a virgin and he he he has a very big endowment. So he's one of the best gay guy that I've ever seen, and I think I'll never see him again. And then, um, I forgot to get his address. So I didn't email him or anything and then So I sort of wanting to experience other guys. I don't I, I don't know. I think it's not right. But many gay people do that. And I think this is what I I Sometimes I think it's what gays life is about seeing a lot of different guys, which is why a lot of us wind up getting AIDS or HIV. So, um, I went to see a, uh, like a couple more several guys. Um, but I didn't feel the same way as the first time. They weren't gentle, you know? So I think it's really hard to find someone like that first guy again. But, uh, I don't know. I still want to experience with, uh, several more guys, you know, to have different experience, but they just don't feel the same as my first time. It's memorable, and it's really what love making is all about. Not like other times, Um, what I feel what I really want is a gentle and romantic stuff. It's not it has nothing to do with like sex, but the way he touches you like it just feels so good. I think this is what all sex is about. It doesn't have to be an sex or oral sex. So, um, after having sex with a lot of guys with just, like excitement and what you see in the porn, I feel that this is not all what sex is about. It was the first time I reached out and actually met a guy with the intention of having sex with him, which was, which was very, um, strange and exciting and and and and and anxiety as well at the same time, I was like, completely nervous. And, um, we met on the street and we went into a bar, and I remember that the cloak lady was a psychic, and she's like, Oh, I feel good vibes here. And it was all very IIII. I saw good signs and everything, you know, not even those kind of things. And it really clear, because I think he was working for some French cognac firm in New York and we decided to go home to my place, and I think what we did is just cuddled and and and and touched and and and stroked a bit, which was already all the way for me because I never I never touched a man. I never I never dared to look at a man naked. And, um, I remember we were naked that that that that's for sure. And, um, I immediately invited him into my life through a, um, a concert which was going on, uh, that next day or two days after that, and I said, Oh, you have to come along with me and, you know, for me, he was That was it. He was my boyfriend now, um, And and he said, Sure, sure, sure. And, um, I think I gave him my number. I don't think he gave my number. He gave his number to me and of course, he never called. And I couldn't reach him. And I was devastated for for weeks I was like, I felt so. I don't know, let down. It's like, this is this is this is this was this was supposed to be my dream come true and and and, um But I felt I think I felt I felt very devastated about his just standing me up. Um, but I think I felt I've also felt good about having done this, and I didn't feel ashamed. I didn't feel any negative feelings about that I I can't recall. No, I don't think so. My first sexual experience. Oh, it was hideous. I think it was. It was in a shopping centre. Believe it or not, it was just I look back now and I think, how could I have ever done it? But it was my first sexual experience, and it is as vivid now as it is not vivid. Vivid is not the right word. It is clear now to me now, as it was then and I I actually went to the public toilet and I had a note slipped to me under the wall that said, I would like help masturbating. Can you help me? And I was like, Ah, OK, being the naive young idiot that I was, So that was my first experience under the wall of a bloody toilet block. So yes, Um, my first real love making experience, I would have to say, was with a guy I actually went to school with, um we always sort of hung out together, Um, for about year seven onwards, and it got to about year nine. We sort of, you know, we're in his his place after school, studying one day, And, you know, one thing led to another, and I remember that very, very clearly it was probably one of the most scary, scary experiences I've been through in terms of having all the nerves and all the the excitement and the, um yeah, all that stuff that goes on there and having that reciprocated from this person and having that combined and like just having him touch me and and touching his skin was it was mind blowing it. Yeah, I've gone off to LA LA land now. Um, but it really was mind blowing. And we spent the next what, couple of years fooling around together. He was my first. He was my sexual partner for about three years. Um, we basically learned to do everything together, um, and explored our sexuality together. So, in a way, I was lucky that I had that I I look back now and I say we weren't boyfriends. Um, I think we were more, Ah, lovers in a way. And we sort of discovered our bodies together and and do that sort of stuff. And I got to a point where where I came out and II I can't I took that step and then everything sort of changed for me in my life. It was wa was no longer a big secret that I had to sneak around and and do all this stuff. I could be open about it with my family and, well, not so much my friends, because I kept it to myself at school. I didn't people or less speculated, but I think the difference between people speculating people knowing is a very big jump. Many people know something instead of speculating it. Things change dramatically, so I always try to avoid. I always try to avoid that big dramatic jump because I didn't want things to get any worse. Um, so in terms of yeah, So in terms of my first love making experience, um, I had it lucky. In a way, Um, I still keep in contact with this person now, and he's still very much in the closet. And as we say, um, bad enough about him at his life. My first sexual experience was a, um it was not a good one. It was, um, was a pianist. I met through the and, um Well, it was the first time I accepted to meet someone in in his own flat. Um, just a few few minutes after coming in his flat, he asked me to to put my clothes off, and, um and he wanted to have sex with me. So I was quite surprised. Because for me, um, sex and love were connected, and it is not always the case. Uh, still, it is the case for me at the moment. Uh, I I've always thought thought and, uh, I still think that, uh, it's best to have sex when you love, um, the person you have sex with, but, uh, this chemist didn't think like this. So I I was curious. Uh, I wanted to know what it was. I must admit it so, But at the same time, uh, as I didn't love really, that that guy, um, it it was quite surprising. It was like acting and, uh, being a witness of your act at the same time. See, um It wasn't love at all. For me. It was something something physical, but, uh, nothing else. So after that, um, I must admit, I didn't feel quite well. Um, I wonder why, Um if was was to be. So maybe I had to have no sexual life at all. But, um, I don't regret it when you first come out as logically. Also, very Randy, I suppose, would be the way of putting it. And, um, you think you know everything and that. And, um, you just rush into things, And I suppose that's one thing I regret. Um, I was 14, and I suppose I just wanted to just to experience that, and, um, it was nothing. It's just a waste, Kind of, um I mean, the curiosity is there, but I do recommend waiting. Um, I've just recently broken up with a long term relationship. Um, it was very hard. Um, but I mean, my first time. I guess it's just a learning experience, and you get through it. And, like, I had known this person for a while, So it was a good thing, I suppose. But, um, I suppose it's just something that always happens and that curiosity does kick in and you are randy and horny and your hormones take over. You, um I think is I find a lot of older men often like to go for younger people. That's one mistake I've never made. I can say, Um, I think that's one thing People just need to be careful. Careful of that. People aren't what they see, and they do lay a lot, and especially in the clubbing scene and all that, you will get people that will make you feel wonderful but only want you for one thing again. It's just these old men that are just looking for one thing, and there's nothing really there. And I I've seen it so much in Christchurch that older men going for younger people and, um, it's like the younger people are vulnerable because they want support and someone to hold, and the older men know this so they take advantage of it. So that's one thing I say to be very careful of, because you can get trapped and you may not realise it, but it does happen and um, yeah, I try to warn people all the time about it, and it's just It's good to just not just to, like, stand up and just realise, OK, I'm gonna be careful, and I'm not gonna rush into anything, So yeah, um or you're always nervous. So I remember you always feel nervous whenever anything sexual happens from kissing to holding hands or anything, you're always like, you know, wow, sweating. I suppose it's It's a weird experience and you get used to it and it becomes nice later on. If it's with someone you really like, it becomes an amazing thing. So just don't rush into it would be my advice. Um, just wait and you will find someone that you feel special about. So, yeah, I think the first time I had sex, real sex was with this guy I met at a bar. The my first boyfriend And there is an older guy. And, um, yeah, I think I, I think the first night when we met, um, he brought me home and we kissed in the car and we fumbled a bit. I can't remember how it was and how I felt. It's It wasn't It wasn't great. I mean, obviously, I had to learn everything, and, um, it must have been great then for me. But, um, I've I've learned so much ever since I've grown so much. I'm a completely different person now, And, um, I can't really relate to that person anymore. I was it 899 years ago, 10 years ago. And, uh, if anything, um, it was just such a relief to to come out. It was like this huge weight to fell off me. And, um, I could finally start being myself and and and getting to know myself and and and grow and learn and and be feel confident and or become confident. I wasn't I wasn't this feeble shadow of of myself anymore. It was me. I didn't have any secrets anymore. I. I really didn't have any secrets and and I I and that actually made me a completely different person in being very extrovert and very open about what I felt and how I felt and and and what I thought and and what happened to me and very open to other people. And, um, that attracted a lot of people too. And, um, I've completely changed from from being rather timid and shy and and And you know the the the guy who gets picked last, uh, at the gym lessons at high school, Um, to a very open, friendly, extrovert person with a lot of friends. Uh um, very entertaining. And, yeah, AAA person that a lot of people like, I think I just sort of chatted to this guy on the Internet. And then he came down to the place where I was boarding at the The lady that I boarded with was away for the night. So we sort of talked for a while, a bit nervous, and then I guess we had sex. So it was just sort of mainly a bit of that sort of money, just sort of in that, um and I just sort of afterwards, um, I just sort of wanted him to pretty much sort of go straight away, and, um and then I change the sheets and all the rest of it. Um, so I guess the first few times, I guess I sort of enjoyed it, but then want to to sort of sort of get them away quick And that and I guess perhaps they just the people. And I guess also because I wasn't out. I didn't. Was frightened of being, though coming home, so Ah, I mean, like, well, getting in court or whatever, so I just wanna to get rid of them quick, so I didn't get caught. Um, I guess coming out sort of in obviously don't have to worry about any of that anymore. So So it was sort of a while. Like when I first had a only about two guys and I was like, I don't know, six months or more or something after that. And then I sort of came out. I think you always remember your first. If it's true, it's one of the most vivid memories I have. I think, um, he was only a young guy. I was at the beach lying on the beach, sunbathing. Um, I was in my early thirties. I suppose, uh, he was a kid of about 18, 17, 18, like being a bit older. And he kept everywhere. I went, he was right behind me. So in the end, um, I asked him what he wanted. He said, ohh. He said, I find you very attract. I wanna have sex with you. So off we went. Um, and I was like a kid fumbling around. Um, I didn't know what to do or or anything like that. Um, I just remember, um, holding him feeling like I had never, ever felt before. He was 18. He was hung like a horse. And he was so hard, I can remember that. I sacked him off. I gave him a blow job, I guess. Um Then he bolted. Um, I felt what did I feel? I don't know If I like, if I can remember, truly what I feel now I know went looking from the following day, but there was nowhere to be found. Um, I guess it was one of those normal first encounters that most 15 or 16 year olds have. You don't know what you're doing. You're fumbling around. Um, I guess that was it. It was the start of a number of rather cheap and nasty. Well, not nasty encounters, but cheap and unsatisfying encounters. I guess the first few times, I guess it was OK. But after that, it each time you sort of sneaked off to do it. It it sort of I don't know. I think to me, to me six, there has to be intimacy. And with intimacy, there has to be knowledge or a liking of the person that you're with. Um, don't know. I just don't find it satisfying if I don't at least get to know a little bit about the person. The first male I was with was about It was about six months ago when I came out and, yeah, it was It was different to what I thought it would be. I felt yeah, I felt good because I'd been there and done that. But it's like it wasn't just proving that I was gay. It's like, Yeah, I really like this guy. And it's the way we ended up and we But we ended up not being friends after that. So that that had a little to know that just being used, but yeah, was wasn't wasn't, um as what would you call it? Um, wasn't what the build up was to it. It was a bit of a letdown. Ohh. Before it was great. I was really excited. Nervous? Everything else during. It was great. Afterwards, I was a bit bit down, but yeah, that was just because it wasn't what I was expecting, but yeah, it got better and better after that every time you asked that. Anyway, so my first male sexual experience was an absolute nightmare. I was very drunk one night at this mixed bar. Um, he actually picked me up and, uh, took me back to his place. Um uh, the excitement was amazing. Doing it was OK. It wasn't what I really expected. But when that next morning when I got home, I was, uh, really, um, really upset. I was expecting something absolutely out of this world. Something absolutely amazing. Unfortunately, it wasn't, um, that morning I got home. I felt very sick. Um, I was absolutely disgusted myself. Um, I actually lost my virginity to a guy before a girl always thought I'd get married and have kids and have a station wagon, all that nice thing. And I thought it actually totally destroyed my life. I wasn't for a couple of years after that that I, uh I actually met someone that was really nice and very caring, and, uh, it made It took a while for me to actually adjust to it. I sort of fiddled around, you know, with the boy next door. That was when I was about 14 or 15, and he was only just experimenting. And he was quite cruel, actually. Um, the first real experience was when I was 21. Prior to the experience, I was extremely nervous. I was shaking almost uncontrollably here. I was finally finally going to experiment with something that I've been thinking about for 0, 10 years or more and er during it, I was still shaking him. But he was He was a very nice guy. He was also on drugs, so he I think he had some sort of, um a relaxant of some sort because he was a bit glazed over, um and then afterwards, incredible guilt because I'd been told by the Catholic Church that that was the bad thing to do. I don't have those good feelings anymore because I don't see it is relevant. It happens. When I was in the Army, it was sort of just naturally happened. There was no one around. And we have to stay in duty when, um, the camp and in winter it's quite cold, and we just try to keep, keep warm, keep warm, and we end up laying in the same bed watching TV and just, you know, naturally we just cuddle and and trying to be warm because there is no heater there. So and and that's when when it happened, Um, sort of, um, joking off. There's nothing nothing like, you know, just just watching it. And then the next day I feel so I I felt so bad and he probably felt the same way. And we just couldn't look each other in the face for a couple of months. We can't even speak to each other. Um, it was quite bizarre because I think it was probably the first time for both of us had experienced that it will probably feel guilty and strange and maybe stupid. Um, but at the same time, you sort of enjoy it. It's kind of exciting, and and I think it was just driven by sexual desire of of when I say that man, it just happened to be a man next to you. So that was my first time experience. And then although we we didn't really talk to each other for a long time and actually it happened again, it happened again. So we actually did it again, so it was quite strange. And after a couple of years, III I knew he got married. Um, I didn't go to the wedding, but I knew he was Mary. I think he's straight now, basically. And he was just, like, fooling around. I haven't really had much like sexual experience. I have, but I haven't. I haven't been around that long. I've only been out for two years and I'm sort of getting used to the gay scene. I don't think I was ever very taunted, but I used to kiss a lot of boys in the night. Um, but I also did that when I was with girls. Um, I'm quite feminine, I think. And I like feminine males. Um, the first experience would have had to be my first boyfriend. Yeah. Um, it's when I was 20 when I first came out. I'm 22 now, but it Yeah, I remember meeting this guy. Stop. He was very thin. He had blonde hair, leather pants, and he was standing behind me, and I kept looking at him, and I was a person that would go up to someone. I've never been very shy, so I went up to this guy's sky and I spoke to him and we ended up kissing. And then about a week later, I started seeing him and I went to his house, which was near the nightclubs and the street commercial road. And I remember saying to him, I can play with you, but you're not allowed to play with me Then he eventually took me upstairs where he was a lot older than me. He was 25 so he knew what to do, and I didn't do any anal sex with him. It was mainly just for play, and I started seeing him for about 23 weeks, and then I never spoke to him again, so that was just the first experience sort of thing. The first sexual experience that I recall, if you want to call it sexual, is something that I remember to this day as if it happened yesterday, because it was so wonderful. A friend of mine, Carmen. His name was Italian kid. He and I used to go to the movies a lot, and I don't know how it started. But sitting in the theatre watching a movie in the winter we just We put our coats over our heads so that we wouldn't be seen and we kissed underneath the coats the whole time of the show. He just couldn't get enough and couldn't stop. And when I think back now, I'm wondering, you know, what did the people in the next row think? Nobody ever tapped us on the shoulder and said, What are you doing or anything like that? Nobody ever bothered us, but we had a wonderful time kissing each other and and, uh, all of that under the under the coats in the dark in theatre. And I remember that as my first sexual experience. It wasn't anything complete, but it was extremely exciting. I've never been able to recall what led up to it. He wasn't attractive to me in the sense that Bobby Mantel was. He was just a friend. And he never expressed any interest in in real sex with me either. But for some reason or other, I guess, uh, maybe we were copying what was on the screen. I don't know, but for some reason we just wanted to do that with each other, and we we enjoyed it so much that, uh, we we couldn't stop my first experience, um, started off with somebody that was the same age as me and I. I got to know him very well before anything really happened. I was I was very scared yet at that time to to even experiment with anything, Um, as I hadn't yet I am we not? We did not live that close together, but, um, he actually started going to college very, very much near me, um, in Minnesota, and we became very close that way, and things just started to progress, and one thing led to another, and we started becoming very close. We're passionate, um, together. And the first time anything ever happened, it was it was really something. I felt connected, Uh, something that I had been the longing for that was missing in my life. Something just totally, um, so valuable that, you know, uh, I couldn't even explain it. And it just felt like something out of me that was missing that I was playing this straight role for my whole life since the puzzle was finally complete. And it was, um it was a great feeling. And, um, it it's changed me in a way that, um it helped me figure figure out that who I am is so important. And another reason why holding back is going to alter your being and who you are if you don't, um, tell people truly who you are and, um, and what you're about before I I was actually really anxious. Um, I'd we'd been drinking quite a bit, too. And I was still just really nervous and really tense and II, I don't know, but at the same time, just really excited. Um, just because I mean, I I'd never had an opportunity to act out anything. Um, and it was enjoyable, but sort of like in a like, I'm doing something that sort of naughty way. Um, just because I think even though even though I felt a little I felt a lot more comfortable with the with the idea of being gay, I still had a lot of a lot of, I don't know, just sort of guilt about it. And I didn't realise that, um I I don't know I. I didn't see that until actually, after we were after after, uh, we were done. Um, I. I felt extremely guilty. I felt, um I don't know I. I can't explain it. It was a really strange sensation, because on one hand I knew there wasn't anything wrong with what I had done. But I had just been so ingrained with the idea that it was a bad thing that I didn't really let myself like, enjoy it after or have, like, an afterglow or anything, you know, and I, I don't know. It actually took me quite a while to be able to really enjoy having sex with somebody, even though it was somebody something that I really wanted to do. And it was something that, like I really enjoy doing, you know, it's just something II I don't know. It's it's sometimes it's hard to let go of something that you've been told all of your life. Um, while I while I was actually having sex with them, I was I was just sort of wondering, you know, Is it Is it really? Is this really what it's all about? Is this really it's just like I? I don't know. There wasn't a really A There wasn't really a connection to it, and there wasn't really, um any emotion involved in it beyond, just like I wanted to have, like, a really quick thought. And go on. Um, maybe that's part of what I felt guilty about. It's just I. I always also, I don't know. It's also part of, like, just the Christian idea of sex is, like, not necessarily that it's so so bad to have sex, But there should you should it should be in a loving, environmental loving relationship. So I think I think that also contributed to why it wasn't the most positive experience. Um, my first sexual experience. I remember that was with, um, a friend that I was going to school with, Um And so I've known him for quite a while, and I think I was only about, 0, 16, I think. And, um, we both had a bit to drink, and, um, I was there at his house, and in fact, he was going out with my cousin at the time, and we'd only sort of all just been out together. And I was staying over there and yeah, had a bit to drink. And, um um, yeah, things just happened, but I didn't really feel like didn't really feel like a, um, sexual experience, because it was all really secretive, and it was almost like, you know, this happened sort of thing. Um, it really didn't feel like I'd confirmed anything about myself at all. Um, that seemed to be a much more not an emotional thing, but something that came from the inside, something that came out, you know, in regard to being honest with myself rather than anything else. But, um yeah, but I guess the the experience that will be memorable in that it was, like, the first opportunity, I guess, Um, before that, it was all just sort of fantasy, you know, 24 hours of fantasy, um, imagining what I might be doing and with whom. But it, uh, after that, after I came out, my first sexual experience was all about the first person I could get my hands on. Really? Um, and it was good. Yeah. I. I can recall it. Um, I recall it being quite comfortable. And, um, of course, it's the first time you do this and the first time you do that and there's a few first, um, and yeah, they're all good or memorable. I recall the first year after I came out was I was really quite active. And it was sounds a bit, I suppose. But I was, um, counting the number of different people that I've been with, Um, it was almost like a bit of a game. Um, and I know that isn't all that unusual. I just guess I It is what I think about now. Um, but that was an exciting time. I mean, just sort of, you know, exploring different situations as well and different people. Um, I guess as you get a little bit older, that sort of adventuring has sort of stopped a little bit, but, um, the thought of it doesn't if it doesn't go away. My first sexual experience is something that I had to a certain extent planned in the fact that I had now been seeing this person. I had developed an emotional bond with them, and so I assumed that they would be the first person that I would have sex with. Um, the first sexual experience I had wasn't in terms. Um, as much sex as it was just a lot of kissing, and that happened. Um, all night one night on my parents' lounge, and I think that to me, was a more special moment than my actual first sexual experience, which happened the following night. Um, something that I'd always just been interested in was what the sensation of kissing somebody was and having just that close male to male contact. Um, in terms of a sexual experience. I think it wasn't that big a deal when I ended up having sex, because to me, it wasn't anything more than what I could have done to myself in terms of the the release of sexual tension or anything like that. What had gone on the night before with the intimacy between me and my boyfriend, to me was a lot more significant in my life than anything that had come before or that had come after. I think that was the turning point because that was my first, um, time, sort of realising, I guess that I was gay and that this wasn't a disgusting thing for me to do or anything like that. It just felt very natural, and I enjoyed it. Um, I enjoyed hugging and kissing and just having that bond. Um, and I guess for me now, when even in when I'm having sex with somebody, that is always the intimacy that I look forward to enduring sex probably more or as much as the actual part of having sex. I think I've always had desires for guys. I mean, I've had lots of girlfriends when I was younger, but it was never anything. It was liver, the right time or the right place to grow a relationship with a woman. And every time something ever became serious with a woman, it always turned bad. And, um, I kept thinking to myself, No, it's just me. It's just me being paranoid But I had a lot of dreams about guys. I mean, I never messed about him until I was 17. That was after I first had sex. I never really had the desire for that. And, um, so before then, all my wet dreams were about guys, and I thought that was just, you know, a phase. And, um and there's this one dream that was always the same dream over and over, and one night cos I'm going forward in time now, So I first time I ever went to a bar was Toledo Park. The same thing happened to me in the bar that happened to me in my dream, and it became reality. And I knew that I was gay because my dream stopped and I didn't feel so insecure. I felt that I found my true self. And, um So I was sitting in a bar with this guy. I didn't know who he was, and, um, I said, I can see it now. Clearly, in my mind, I was It was All I could see was from the neck down, and I was sitting next to him at the bar and, um, my temptations got, got the got the best of me, and I reached over and grabbed his and it was a That was my dream. That's all it ever was. And none of my dreams were ever sexual, never sexual. It was always emotional and, like two guys you know, holding each other or, you know, fondling or kissing. It was never, ever sexual. I never, ever saw a guy sexual in my dream with dreams when I was a young kid. So, yeah, my first experience was before I came out. It was it was actually, with one of my friends. We were and to this party and we ended up just like crashing him at my house. And like now I was there. I ended up having a few drinks and stuff like that and ended up talking, and I found that he was going to be moving away to Australia. And we talked about all sorts of things about life, about about feelings. He was another one who didn't have a girlfriend, but no one could have ever picked anything about him. But he admitted to me he was gay and I moved to him the way I felt. And then he questioned me because I had a girlfriend at the time and it just felt right because it was like, OK, yeah, I am. I'm gay. It's like, this isn't some Most, you know, this isn't some dream I've had or something like this. It's like I really felt like it at the moment. It was the perfect thing to do, and yeah, I don't know how to explain it. It was just It was just good to be with them out and know that it wasn't gonna go any further and so no one would care and I could just get hang up in the moment instead of worrying about the repercussions of the anticipation of it was, uh, disbelief. It's like when we're talking about it. And he told me, I just I didn't believe it. It's not that I didn't want to. It's probably what I did want to. And I just thought it was like, you know, I was just testing me sort of thing. So I It took a couple of guts to say, You know that Well, yeah, so am I sort of thing doing it. It was, um How would you describe it? It was it was relief. It was It was really central. It was. It was fun. And it was It was It was more like a friend thing. It was, Yeah, it was just a friend last sort of moment. But afterwards it was just like we talked really well and like we still keep in contact and stuff via email bit. I just I think they helped me a lot in realising, you know, when I did come out, it was other gay people because like, there wasn't that many around that I knew of at the time until I did finally come out. The audio recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: Snapshot 2000; gay; sex; sexuality. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/snapshot_2000_first_same_sex_experience.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089413. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.