The title of this recording is "Jenny and Jools". It is described as: Jenny Rowan and Jools Joslin talk to Justin Gregory about marriage equality. It was recorded in Kapiti Coast District, Aotearoa New Zealand on the 1st September 2016. This is a recording of an event and features the voices of Brian Tamaki, Jenny Rowan, John Banks, Jonathan Young, Jools Joslin, Louisa Wall and Maurice Williamson. It also includes interviews conducted by Justin Gregory. Their names are spelt correctly, but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: Jenny Rowan and Jools Joslin talk to Justin Gregory about marriage equality. The content in the recording covers the decades 1990s through to the 2010s. A brief summary of the recording is: This summary covers the recording titled "Jenny and Jools," an episode from RNZ's Eyewitness series. The piece recounts the journey of marriage equality in New Zealand, spotlighting the firsthand experiences of Jenny Rowan and Jools Joslin, who were significantly involved in the fight for legal recognition of same-sex marriages. In 2013, New Zealand achieved a milestone with the passing of MP Louisa Wall's Marriage Amendment Act that legalized marriage equality, allowing over 2000 same-sex couples to marry. Particularly notable were the efforts of Jenny Rowan and Jools Joslin, a couple who relentlessly pursued their right to marry over several years but were regularly denied by the courts in the so-called Quilter case. Their battle even reached the United Nations Human Rights Committee, ending in further disappointment. Jenny and Jools faced great emotional tolls during these legal battles, each feeling devalued by the system making them second-class citizens. They witnessed hateful opposition to their cause, specifically remembering the impact of marches against their rights. Despite all this, the pair married legally in Canada and continued to push for change at home. Years later, in 2012, the atmosphere began to shift when Labour MP Louisa Wall's bill for marriage equality entered parliament. A sense of support from the global LGBTQ community signaled a ripe moment for progress. As the bill progressed, it faced its share of opposition, with some MPs emphasizing the importance of traditional definitions of marriage. However, the third and final reading of the bill was a momentous event, with memorable contributions like Maurice Williamson's "Big Gay Rainbow" speech, and previously unsupportive MP John Banks's surprising declaration in favor of the bill. The triumphant outcome was celebrated uproariously in the Parliament when the bill was passed, a significant leap for LGBTQ rights in New Zealand. Despite the win, Jenny and Jools were content with their Canadian marriage and did not feel the need to marry again in New Zealand. Nonetheless, the feeling that more work was required for true equality remained dominant. The recording underlines the progress and ongoing struggles faced by the LGBTQ community in advocating for their rights and suggests that societal change involves personal risks and honest conversations within families and communities. The key message is the power of continuous advocacy and resilience in the face of opposition when fighting for social justice and equality. The full transcription of the recording follows.  It includes timestamps every thirty seconds in the format [HH:MM:SS].  The transcription begins:  For Eyewitness and RNZ I'm Justin Gregory. In 2013, MP Louisa Wall's Marriage Amendment Act came into effect, and marriage equality became legal in New Zealand. Since the passing of this historic law, more than 2000 same sex couples have tied the knot. RN z's Eyewitness series takes us back to the night of 17, April 2013 and the third and final reading of the bill in Parliament and the vote that changed history. [00:00:30] Sitting in the gallery that night were two very special witnesses to this moment of history. For seven years, cup coast couple Jenny Rowan and Jules Joslin had argued in court for the right to marry each other and were denied at every turn. They must have thought that this moment would never come because well, before now, Jenny says they had given up the fight. Yeah, it was a pragmatic reality check. We [00:01:00] didn't have any money. We certainly in our own energy and way of being had decided we'd done the best we could. And we would let time take its course, trusting that somewhere in the future somebody would come along and revisit, uh, the whole matter. In 1995 Jules and Jenny were one of three lesbian couples who each applied for a licence to marry here in New Zealand. Their applications were denied. They challenged the decision in the high court and then again in the court of appeal, and they [00:01:30] lost both times in what became known as the Quilter case. In 1998 Jules and Jenny sued New Zealand before the United Nations Human Rights Committee on the grounds of discrimination. Four years later, the decision came back. They had lost again. Jules Joslin. Probably one of the most sobering experiences we had was sitting in that court of appeal with a panel of five judges watching the reactions and listening to the cross questioning. I guess we both felt completely [00:02:00] devalued when the Canadians came along to review their human rights. They actually used the quilter case as you know how not to determine your law. The decision was cutting because both women had been married before and it was so easy. So run of the mill, so accepted, so everything. Nobody questioned anything about that, then in our mid thirties, be in a situation where we were choosing to take [00:02:30] this step very deeply in love, very deeply committed and very deeply clear about why we wanted to marry one another. To have that so devalued and to be under so much scrutiny was dreadful. I felt it really heavily. In 2004, the then Labour government passed the Civil Union Act, allowing same sex couples and others to legally enter into a union. But it was not marriage equality, and Jenny says neither of them wanted a bar of it. We didn't want to participate in anything [00:03:00] that didn't give us full and equal rights and access to all the laws of this land. And the marriage act for us was the primary focus generally amongst our heterosexual friends, et cetera. When that went through, that was the big debate. They thought, Oh, you've got everything now So what's your problem? And then we'd have to say, Well, actually, we haven't got this, this, this and this, and you have to you have to use a separate language and you're still a second class citizen. And most of our friends, of course, were seriously appalled about that. [00:03:30] I have determined that we are not going to raise up a generation that forgets the name of the Lord God Almighty. But the couple were inevitably caught up in the debate around the law change and appalled by the march on Parliament, led by churches opposing the law. Change with Enough is enough slogan and their jack boots and their black outfits and their message strongly messages of hate [00:04:00] on Mass. I was shocked and frightened, and I think it was the level of hatred that was so you could just feel it. It was dreadful. Time passed. Jules and Jenny got legally married in Canada, and in July 2012, Labour MP Louisa Wall's Marriage Definition of Marriage Amendment bill was drawn from the ballot and introduced to the House. It had been some time since the legal battles of the nineties and the acrimony of 2004, and the couple [00:04:30] felt that maybe change was in the air. It felt like the time had come. Certainly back in the nineties, our own community was very divided over the issue of marriage or even legalising our relationships. So it was extremely refreshing when this latest round of debate began, because all of a sudden there seemed to be a groundswell of support amongst our own community and the wider global gay and lesbian community. It did feel as though the time was right. But as the bill went through the process of [00:05:00] becoming law, it was clear that not everyone agreed. I call Jonathan Young. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Traditions are important and have a place. A tradition is the institutional memory of a society. It is not to be cast off or cast away quickly. My view, Mr Speaker, is that history and tradition have invested significant meaning into the term of marriage. And I believe that we need to retain its present definition. Thank you, sir. [00:05:30] Listening to some of the opposition some of the younger MP S with the opposition to this Bill Steele That was, you know, just sad, just absolutely and fundamentally sad that here we were in the 21st century and all of this completely inappropriate crack, if you like, was still being talked about inside our parliament. The house has resumed. Blew us a wall, Mr Speaker, Fast [00:06:00] forward to 17. April 2013 and the final reading of the bill. Jenny and Jell sat in the gallery and watched As the speeches were given and the moment came nearer, they enjoyed national MP Morris Williamson's now famous Big Gay Rainbow speech. One of the messages I had was that this bill was the cause of our drought. This bill was the cause of our drought. Well, if any of you follow my Twitter account, you will see that in the Packera electorate. This morning it was pouring with rain. We have the [00:06:30] most enormous big gay rainbow across my electorate. But it was the change of heart by act leader John Banks, who had described the 1986 homosexual law Reform bill as evil and sickening. That moved and astonished the pair. After three decades and 10 parliaments, I've had time to reflect to reflect on what I said and to reflect on what I did. If I knew then what I have since learned, I would [00:07:00] have acted differently when making this decision, I had to ask myself, Will New Zealanders have more freedoms as a result of this bill? Yes. Will anyone's freedoms be taken away by this bill? No. Would the god that I believe in think any less of me for voting for this bill? No, that's why I support this legislation. [00:07:30] Order members, The eyes are 77. The nose are 44. Oh, The place exploded. The place exploded. Everyone was on their feet. It was fantastic. Assistant Speaker Lindsay tis who had opposed the bill nevertheless allowed the cheering to continue for nearly two whole minutes, followed by the love song. For [00:08:00] that was unforgettable and amazing because it was against the rules of the house. We were told not to do anything or blow our nose or do anything like that. And then we all stood up and sang songs, so that was a privilege and unforgettable experience. Were you crying? Well, yeah, we were. I have to tell you that through this all over the years, through this whole battle, our kids have been through this with us. So it was as important for them as it was for us, to be honest with [00:08:30] you. I mean, they had a shit of a time when they were younger. Our Children have definitely know what it's like to be on the other, you know, to be part of a minority conversation, um, which is not sociably favourable in the provinces anyway, they know what that looks like. And one of the proud things we are of all of our six Children is that they have a sense of justice and huge tolerance. Um, around difference, et cetera. You know, they've felt it and know what it looks like and certainly don't [00:09:00] want to be a part of continuing it. Jules Joslin and Jenny Rowan had helped bring about one of the most significant events in New Zealand's LGBTI Q history. But perhaps surprisingly, they felt that this moment belonged to others. The number of young, lesbian and gay people who were up in that gallery who had not been around in 1986 and who had not been around at the time of [00:09:30] the civil Union and the time we all went to court. This was a new thing for them, and it was as important and life changing for them as those previous things had been for us. Was New Zealand a hard nut to crack on this issue? I think so. No, I think so. Still not settled in terms of human rights and social justice, we were seen as leading the world. I think we lagged seriously In this regard. [00:10:00] Neither woman feels the need to take up the option to get married here, being perfectly content with their Canadian wedding. And, as they say, both believe that there is plenty of change that still needs to happen in their own country for equality to be truly achieved. And they have some advice for LGBTI Q people on how that might come about. Don't live the lie don't live the the two worlds. It is still the onus on us as gays and lesbians to take that risk to have those discussions [00:10:30] with parents and siblings, preferably not over the Christmas dinner table, which where a lot of it seems to happen. Um, and then you do. You do bring about that social attitudinal change. There's no question about that. That's how powerful that can be. You've been listening to Eyewitness on RNZ National. [00:11:00] If you enjoyed this story, please write a review or rate us on iTunes. You can subscribe or listen to every eyewitness podcast on iTunes or at radio NZ dot co dot NZ forward slash series. And while you're there, we'd invite you to dip into any of the other RNZ podcasts. Eyewitness was written and presented by me, Justin Gregory and engineered by Leon. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 1990s ; 2010s ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Brian Tamaki ; Canada ; Christmas ; God ; High Court ; Homosexual Law Reform ; Jenny Rowan ; John Banks ; Jonathan Young ; Jools Joslin ; Justin Gregory ; Kapiti Coast District ; LGBT ; Louisa Wall ; Marriage Amendment Act (2012) ; Marriage Equality ; Maurice Williamson ; Member of Parliament ; People ; Quilter case (1996) ; United Nations ; access ; advice ; attitudinal change ; change ; children ; class ; community ; conversation ; discrimination ; energy ; equality ; friends ; future ; gallery ; gay ; government ; hate ; heterosexual ; history ; homosexual ; human rights ; justice ; language ; law ; legislation ; lesbian ; listening ; love ; march ; marriage ; marriage equality ; minority ; other ; parents ; passing ; podcast ; prayer ; privilege ; questioning ; radio ; rainbow ; reading ; relationships ; review ; sex ; siblings ; social ; social justice ; speech ; support ; time ; tolerance ; tradition ; vote ; wedding ; witness ; women. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/rnz_jenny_and_jools.html. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.