The title of this recording is "Kevin Hague - Rainbow Politicians". It is described as: Kevin Hague from the Green Party talks about being a Member of Parliament. It was recorded in Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand on the 17th September 2012. Kevin Hague is being interviewed by Jo Jackson / Grizz.  Their names are spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 24 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Kevin Hague from the Green Party talks to Jo Jackson about what it's like to be a Member of Parliament. The content in the recording covers the 2010s decade. A brief summary of the recording is: In a Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand podcast recorded on September 17, 2012, Green Party member Kevin Hague discusses what it's like to be a queer Member of Parliament. Hague, who has been an MP since 2008, shares insights on their public and private life balance, particularly regarding the assumed knowledge of their sexuality due to their past prominent role with the AIDS Foundation and their openness in their maiden speech. The conversation touches on the experience of being a queer MP, Hague's personal strategy of talking generally about their partner and child while keeping details private. Additionally, there is a discussion of the normalization of queer MPs in parliament, thanks to the groundwork laid by predecessors such as Chris Carter and Tim Barnett. Hague also delves into the positive support received from the queer community, both for their political work and personal validation. This includes Hague's work on marriage equality and addressing the effects of homophobia on queer youth. Despite the Green Party's campaign approach focusing on party votes over electorate votes, there is a sense that queer representation on the party list has garnered support from the queer community, although data on this is challenging to quantify. Furthermore, Hague notes the mix of open queer MPs and those who are not out within the New Zealand Parliament, suggesting that reasons for lack of openness could include party conservatism and an embedded history of homophobia among older MPs. Regarding legislative matters, Hague is an advocate for marriage equality over civil unions, viewing the latter as a stepping stone toward the goal of equality. They also express the need to explicitly include gender identity in anti-discrimination law, recognizing that implicit protection is less impactful than explicit legal acknowledgment. Hague is preparing a comprehensive overhaul bill for New Zealand's outdated adoption law, aligning it with contemporary values and focusing on the rights and interests of the child. They expect the passage of this bill will follow the successful implementation of the Marriage Equality Bill, which has broad parliamentary support. This detailed profile, situated within the broader context of New Zealand's political and social attitudes towards the queer community, highlights Hague's contributions to advancing queer rights and representation in politics. Hague is confidently optimistic about the future passing of queer-inclusive legislation. The full transcription of the recording follows.  It includes timestamps every thirty seconds in the format [HH:MM:SS].  The transcription begins:  How long have you been an MP? Since 2008. So now very nearly four years at this point. And have you been out as queer that whole time? When? Yeah, When you started your job. Currently, did you come out or was it just sort of assume knowledge as it were? Well, I mean, I have been sort of out for a long time. So I, I guess there there was a level [00:00:30] of assumed knowledge. You know, I used to be the director of the AIDS Foundation. So, uh, I used to be a regular media commentator on sort of gay issues. So I guess, uh, I guess you know, there's a reason there was a reasonable knowledge that that I was gay, But I also spoke about being gay in my maiden speech. So, um, so I don't think anyone at any point would have been confused or or not known. Um, was anyone surprised after you [00:01:00] spoke about being gay in your maiden speech? Oh, well, not that they told me or showed me so But as I say II, I suspect that people who had been involved in political life in New Zealand for a while, um, would have known in any case, but but, uh, I, I guess. I guess younger or newer, newer MP S who are kind of new to politics may not have known. So since being in the public eye has your private life had to change at all? [00:01:30] Um, I wouldn't say it's changed, but certainly, I mean, because many of my roles have been in the public eye. So So it's it's a kind of, um, it's a a boundary that I that I've walked for quite a long time. Um and, uh, you know, I have made a point of, uh, talking in in quite quite general terms about my partner without [00:02:00] um giving, giving personal information about him, um, in the public domain. And, um, it's the same with, um, my son. I've got a a 22 year old son who's, um um who? You know, I. I don't think it's right to, um, to have in the public eye unless he chooses to be so. So I think it's important that for your for your for [00:02:30] your private life that people in your private life get to choose whether that whether they enter the public domain or not because you have a same partner. Currently, do you find yourself treated differently at official events or anything? Uh, no, actually, it's, um the I had, uh I mean, I think, yes, probably every queer person does, you know, lots, lots of experiences of of, um, you know, having to [00:03:00] correct people and correct assumptions and and, um, maybe different treatment at at, um, at sort of events that you go to. But in this role, that hasn't happened at all. I guess that's partly because parliament's been like, I'm not the first, you know, MP. So some people like, Well, I actually particularly people like Chris Carter. In fact, um, Tim Barnett, you know, actually, uh, played played a role in sort of breaking down [00:03:30] those barriers and probably preparing the institution for people like me. And have you, um, found yourself having to face any homophobia as a part of this job? Not really. I mean, um, we've got the marriage equality debate going on in New Zealand at the moment. Um, and, uh, certainly for the green party caucus. Uh, one of the things that we do is, uh, the the person who holds [00:04:00] a particular portfolio manages all of the correspondence that everyone receives about a about a about a particular topic that's in that portfolio. So one of my portfolios is rainbow issues. You know, he's got issues with their own boats to bring them to me. Um, and so all green Party MP are forwarding to me all of the email and letters and and other kind of communications that they receive about marriage equality. [00:04:30] And it's certainly true that a proportion of those are pretty homophobic. But it's it's, um it's not directed at me, particularly. It's a It's a kind of more generic thing that that that I could take on personally, but but, um, uh, I don't cool. Uh, you spoke before about, uh, previous queer PS. Um, do do you have any any, uh, queer heroes, as it were? [00:05:00] Oh, well, yeah. I mean, I. I mean, I do I mean, in in this I mean from parliamentary life. I mean, I think, um, the the people that I've mentioned Chris Carter and Tim Barnett certainly, um have been, um I mean, the very much forging the path for others. Marilyn Waring. Even though she She wasn't out while she was an MP, actually. Still, um, was an important voice and and has become a more important [00:05:30] voice, possibly outside of parliament. Um, so in terms of MP S, those people Fran Wild, of course, were, you know, for championing homosexual law reform, Um, and Catherine O'Regan, who is kind of a forgotten MP perhaps in in in this history, because it was Catherine who moved the, um, uh, the the changes to anti discrimination law that incorporated sexual orientation. And at the time I was working for the [00:06:00] AIDS Foundation. Um, kind of organising, um, the the campaign on out on the outside of parliament, so worked closely with her, and, um, she did a great job. I mean, I got lots of, you know, queer heroes outside of Parliament. Can you name some of them for me? Well, I mean, Harvey Milk is the obvious one, but he's everyone's now, so that's true. Um, do you think that your sexuality, [00:06:30] um, affected whether or not people voted for you? Um, yes. Uh, I mean, as a green MP, we we don't campaign to win electorates. We campaign in electorates, you know? So that we get to be on the on the stage at the meet the candidates meetings. But the message is usually, um uh, it's not your electorate vote that I'm after. I want your party vote. And [00:07:00] so so all green MP S are elected via the party list. So not none of us represents a particular electorate. But, um, that doesn't mean that we don't represent a particular constituency. And I'm certain that, um uh, that the Green Party has picked up a larger share of votes from the queer community. Um, because [00:07:30] I'm on the list. Um, so I think I think it's been a positive thing, you know, actually having, um, a gay man highly ranked on the list. And, of course, Jan Logie is now an MP. Also, So we've got a lesbian woman also, um, and so I mean, it's it's hard to quantify because the the, um, the market research companies that do the analysis tend not to to ask about sexual orientation in in [00:08:00] their surveys. But, um, we think Express magazine has run several polls Now that show us, um, it's something like 50% support amongst amongst the queer community. Um and, um I mean, we don't know how accurate that is, but that's at least strongly indicative of a very high level of support for which I'm really grateful and and proud of, actually, Yeah. So you get a lot of support from the queer community in terms [00:08:30] of voting. But what sort of support do you get in terms of on a personal level from the queer community? Um, II. I get a lot like people will come up to me, um, at events and kind of say, Oh, by the way, it's a fantastic job we're doing on marriage equality, for example. Or, um, in the another area that I've been working on quite strongly has been, um, the effect of homophobia [00:09:00] on queer youth and, uh, the importance of creating support of social environments and public policy. And so, you know, after after I give a speech about that, you know, I get lots of contact from people saying, Hey, that was fantastic. I really, really liked that. You said that I really like that you're there in parliament. So there's there's a lot of positive support there. I mean, I and I live on the west coast of the South Island. So I live in Greymouth, and, um, [00:09:30] a lot of people, when we moved there, kind of assumed that, um I mean, they thought it was totally baffling, because we we we were moving from Waiheke Island, where we lived before, and they thought that we were moving to this hostile redneck, homophobic community. And, um, that has totally not been our experience. You know, we've been, you know, completely out from day one. And it was really the only, um, [00:10:00] only good strategy for for anyone anywhere, um, and have not encountered in 10 years. We've lived on the West Coast, a single incident of homophobia, and it doesn't come up, um, a lot on the campaign trail, people, uh, people mostly are, um, interested in talking about other issues. Um, but it also hasn't come up as a negative. You know, there aren't people you know there aren't people who are saying, [00:10:30] Well, I'm not going to vote for you because, you know, some some homophobic remark or insult. So So I for me II, I think, um uh, it's just been entirely positive. Excellent. Um, so you talked before about, um Jan Logie now being a an MP. How many other queer politicians do you know of? Well, um, in within, within Labour. Of course. There's [00:11:00] Grant Robertson, Charles Marion Street and Louisa Wall. Um, Chris Fin is an out gay man in in national. Um, and, um, there are certainly, um uh, other queer MP S in the New Zealand Parliament. But they are not out. Um, can you try to imagine some reasons why they would not be out? Yeah, [00:11:30] I guess so. I mean, I think the the for for people in other parties, the path to parliament is is maybe a more conservative one than it is for the greens, you know? So, um so parties that have have more of a focus on winning electorates probably have assumptions about, um, you know, mainstream New Zealand voters that that are conservative. In fact, there's quite a lot of evidence that [00:12:00] that MP S and politicians are in general more conservative than the New Zealand public. Um and so? So there will be assumptions for for, um for for queer candidates that, in fact, that they have to, um keep that under wraps. Or that or that being an out, um, queer candidate would be a negative factor in trying to win an electorate seat. I'm I'm guessing that that's the thinking that goes on. And, [00:12:30] um and most MP S are uh uh, I was gonna say older. That's not quite right. But the the, um there aren't many young MP S. And, uh, and, uh, although I'm probably older than the average now, which is a bit of a worry. Um, but, um, and I think you know that that for older New Zealanders, there's probably more of a embedded [00:13:00] history and experience of homophobia or feeling that people needed to hide their sexual orientation to avoid homophobia. Um, so So there's there's probably a combination of factors like that, and you're glad you came out. Oh, yeah. Good. Um, so, uh, of course, you are part of the legalised love campaign. Um, so, yeah, you you support, uh, queer marriage over civil unions? Um, [00:13:30] yeah. I mean, I think civil unions were probably an important step forward. And, um but, uh, but I have always believed that that marriage equality was the was the goal that we should be seeking. Um, so currently in the Human Rights Act. Um, it is not. It is OK to discriminate against people on the grounds of gender identity. Well, [00:14:00] it isn't. Actually, it's the the um, but it's not explicit that it's illegal. The the the the law is actually quite well established that the, um the gender ground that that is in the act, um, includes gender identity. But the the the point that, um, transgender people and would make and I agree with them entirely is that, um, unless something [00:14:30] is specified explicitly, it doesn't. I'm sure it would provide some protection in the event that someone is discriminated against. So a transgender person loses their job. Um, they actually do have a have a recourse now, but it doesn't have the kind of signalling and educative effect um, that you also want the law to to achieve so part of having sexual orientation in the act, for example, is that it sends a very clear message [00:15:00] to employers and landlords and the providers of goods and services, et cetera, et cetera, that it's not OK to discriminate and to and to queer people, um, it sends the message that it's not, you know, that that we are full members of society. So the signalling effect of the law is incredibly important. And unless gender identity is is specified explicitly, um, the the act can't really do that. Um, because [00:15:30] people aren't going to, uh, read, read the act and and and understand immediately unless their lawyer is familiar with with all the case law. Um, that gender actually includes gender identity. So do you think that's something that needs to change on the act? Oh, yeah, it does. It does. Um, certainly it it I've been doing some thinking about what? My action programmers. If I, you know, if [00:16:00] I get into government, which certainly I hope won't be too far away. And, um, that's that's one of the changes that I would make. Um, what's your stance on queer adoption? Well, you, uh, listeners, um, may know are likely to know that this is an issue that I have been championing in the New Zealand parliament. Um, And actually, just as we as we speak within the next couple of [00:16:30] weeks, I will I will be, um, unveiling a a bill that completely overhauls adoption law. Um, and and in relation to surrogacy as well, so it sort of extends into that area too. And the the Louisa Wall's marriage equality bill will, in fact, probably, um, deal with [00:17:00] all of the all of the, uh, issues around same sex couples being, um, ineligible to adopt, which is the the fact in the current law with marriage equality going through, one of the things that will happen as a result of that is that, um, the the adoption law, which kind of specifies that couples should be, should be married. Um, will will extend to same sex [00:17:30] married couples. And there was a couple of years ago a court case, um, taken by, um, a de facto heterosexual couple. So So a couple, but who were not married and not living in the civil union? Um, and they won in in in court. Um, so, uh, so the the act, as it stands has already been extended to include a civil union and de facto heterosexual [00:18:00] couples. And again, when um, Bill goes through that adding in married, same sex couples will will roll out to civil unions and and de facto couples as well. So so that aspect of my my bill, probably by the time that it actually um is is debated in parliament won't be necessary. Um, although it will still be, it will still be valuable [00:18:30] to to have that the nondiscriminatory principle enshrined in the written down law, as opposed to relying on case law. Um, but the the fundamental problem with the adoption act is is that its legislation, like the marriage act, in fact from 1955 which means that the social attitudes and values from 1955 are fossilised in the law, Um, and [00:19:00] fundamental to adoption is what what what is adoption about? And I would say that my description of the current law is that it deals with the child as if the child were a chattel, you know, AAA piece of property and that the adoption process is like a property transaction. Now I think that's absolutely the the polar reverse of how it should be that actually, I believe [00:19:30] the interest of the child should be utterly central to all of the decisions that are made, um, about that child's parenting arrangements. And so that's the principle that that underpins the the the overhaul of the law that that I Um And you said just before, uh, when lewis Walls Bill will pass. Do you think that's something that will definitely happen? Yeah. II, I think unless there's I don't know, a meteorite striking striking Wellington in the next, [00:20:00] um, in within the next year. I I think we will. I think the law will will pass, um, in the first half of 2013, Um, the first reading vote at the time that we were recording last. The first reading vote passed, uh, 80 to 40 which is a much more emphatic result than most people were expecting. And, um oh, if I could go out on a limb now [00:20:30] and say my prediction is that the eventual margin will be bigger than that, but we'll actually get more votes by the third reading than than the 80 that we have now. So, um, so I'm I'm pretty confident as you as you can tell, um, but I I've been working with Lesa very closely, so she's doing a lot of the fronting of the campaign. I I've been doing a lot of the the backroom organising. So, in my very strong [00:21:00] senses is that MP S generally um believe that this is a law that should be passed. And I got to say I'm grateful to the prime minister, you know, to and to Barack Obama. Because without without Obama, I'm sure the prime minister wouldn't have said anything but the prime minister. The prime minister's change of heart on the issue and then subsequent statements that actually have have strengthened and strengthened his position further, um, have been very useful [00:21:30] because they've they've given, you know, the green light to members of his caucus that that, um, very likely would have voted against this, Um, without his support for it. Um, do you think your adoption bill will be as well received as the look I? I think it will. I mean, it's unusual for members, Bill, because it's it's very big, you know, to do a comprehensive overhaul of of the law, um, is a big task, and members bills usually only tackle [00:22:00] 11 issue and do it quite simply, this is a bill that's, you know, 30 pages long. Um, but what I would say having been working on this issue for well, the best part of four years, um is that there is an overall understanding by members of parliament that the existing adoption law is utterly obsolete, you know, and needs to be changed. [00:22:30] Um, but but, uh, but a number of governments, um, I guess most recent, most recently this government. But before then, the you know, the Labour government that was in power for nine years, um, had the chance to do something about about changing that law and and chose not to, um So we've got this situation of a growing problem and MP [00:23:00] S are generally aware of that. Um I think they will see that the overhaul of the law that we've written, um, is a sensible one. And so I think there's good support for it. And I think I think the issue in adoption that has probably stopped governments from tackling it in the past has been around adoption by same sex couples where they've been scared to move because they feared that the public wasn't ready for it or something like that. Um, and I think Lewis's [00:23:30] bill will very much have paved the way for that. I think by the time that, um, my my bill is being debated. The fact that Lewis's bill has gone before and dealt with the same sex couples issue to a very large extent. Anyway, um, I think will mean that that my bill becomes effectively pretty non controversial and, you know a government might pick it up, and that would be quite a sensible thing because they're they're in a better position to manage [00:24:00] it through the through the house than I am. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 2010s ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Barack Obama ; Charles Chauvel ; Chris Carter ; Chris Finlayson ; Civil Union Act (2004) ; Events ; Fran Wilde ; Grant Robertson ; Green Party ; Greymouth ; HIV / AIDS ; Harvey Milk ; Human Rights Act (1993) ; Jan Logie ; Job ; John Key ; Katherine O'Regan ; Kevin Hague ; LegaliseLove (Wellington) ; Louisa Wall ; Marilyn Waring ; Marion Street ; Marriage Amendment Act (2012) ; Marriage Equality ; New Zealand AIDS Foundation (NZAF) ; Parliament buildings ; People ; Queer Politicians ; Tim Barnett ; Wellington ; West Coast ; Youth ; adoption ; anti discrimination ; assumptions ; barriers ; change ; civil unions ; community ; conservative ; discrimination ; email ; empowerment ; equality ; face ; feminism ; gay ; gender ; gender identity ; government ; heterosexual ; history ; hit ; homophobia ; homosexual ; human rights ; identity ; knowledge ; law ; legislation ; lesbian ; love ; mainstream ; marriage ; marriage equality ; media ; meetings ; news ; other ; parenting ; parents ; parties ; peace ; policy ; politics ; power ; profile ; public figure ; queer ; rainbow ; reading ; relationships ; research ; sex ; sexual orientation ; sexuality ; social ; social attitudes ; speech ; strategy ; strength ; support ; surrogacy ; time ; transgender ; understanding ; unions ; values ; voice ; vote ; work ; youth. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/rainbow_politicians_kevin_hague.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089345. Kevin Hague also features audibly in the following recordings: "Elizabeth Kerekere - AsiaPacific Outgames", "Fuimaono Karl Pulotu-Endemann - AsiaPacific Outgames", "Marilyn Waring - AsiaPacific Outgames", "Parliament: second reading of the Marriage (Definition of Marriage) Amendment Bill", "Rally for Marriage Equality", "Parliament: first reading of the Marriage (Definition of Marriage) Amendment Bill", "Reflections on Church and State - Marriage Equality", "Marriage, Adoption and Human Rights  - Marriage Equality Conference", "Out in the Square (2013)", "Parliament: third reading of the Marriage (Definition of Marriage) Amendment Bill", "Parliament: Committee of the whole House debate on the Marriage (Definition of Marriage) Amendment Bill", "Parliament: second reading of the Sullivan Birth Certificate Bill", "Speaking Out Proud - Proud 2016", "New Zealand Parliament acknowledges the Orlando mass shooting", "Kevin Hague on Historic Convictions", "Kevin Hague profile" and "International AIDS Candlelight Memorial (2014)". Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.