This text file contains detailed information about an audio recording on PrideNZ.com. It includes the following sections: DESCRIPTION, SPEAKERS, SUMMARY, KEY CONTENT TIMESTAMPS [HH:MM:SS], TRANSCRIPT WITH TIMESTAMPS [HH:MM:SS], HUMAN VERIFIED TRANSCRIPT, KEYWORDS, REFERENCES, RELATED CONTENT AND FOOTNOTE. 

## START DESCRIPTION
The title of this recording is "Out On These Streets - episode 3". It is described as: In this third episode, hosts Gareth and Roger of Walk Tours NZ look at promotion and marketing, managing registrations and enhancing the tour with visual flip books and audio clips. It was recorded in Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand on the 15th July 2025. The duration of the recording is 24 minutes. The content in the recording covers the decades 1860s through to the 2020s.
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## START SPEAKERS
This is a podcast recording and features the voices of Gareth Watkins and Roger Smith. These names are spelt correctly, but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document.
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## START SUMMARY
In the third episode of Out on These Streets, hosts Gareth Watkins and Roger Smith of Walk Tours NZ delve into the promotional, logistical, and creative aspects of running Rainbow walk tours. Titled The Invitation, the episode covers a broad range of practical strategies for engaging audiences and enhancing the tour experience, with a focus on Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand. The conversation opens with a listener question about applying modern labels to historical figures. Gareth and Roger explain their decision not to label individuals unless they self-identified, preferring instead to offer context without imposing identity. They cite examples such as Katherine Mansfield and the long-time companionship of Effie Pollen and Ursula Bethell, highlighting the importance of respecting historical ambiguity. The episode then turns to scripting tours. Roger recommends using bullet-point scripts to maintain clarity and pacing. Without structure, it’s easy for a tour to run long, which can be overwhelming for participants. They advise focusing each stop on a few core points to keep the tour moving and engaging. A significant portion of the episode discusses visual enhancements - particularly flip books. These plastic folders of printed images are used in place of tablets or screens. They’re more affordable, durable, and practical in all weather conditions. Flip books allow participants to view historic photos, newspaper headlines, and graphics that help reconstruct scenes where buildings or venues no longer exist. Gareth and Roger stress the importance of bold, high-contrast images that can be seen from a distance but also offer interest up close. They outline sources for such images, including Wikipedia, Facebook groups like Lost Gay Wellington, Wellington Recollect, the National Library of New Zealand, and DigitalNZ. These platforms often host freely available images, though Gareth and Roger caution listeners to always check permissions, especially since participants might take and share photos from the flip books. Papers Past is noted as a rich source for historical newspaper imagery, even if some visuals are of low resolution. They also discuss experimenting with AI-generated enhancements of historical images, with clear disclaimers that they are interpretive and not intended to falsify history. The use of handouts, such as timelines and maps, is another key element. For example, in the Carmen Rupe tour, participants receive a printed timeline of her life and business locations, helping them orient chronologically as the tour weaves between times and places. Audio also plays a role. The hosts describe using snippets from the PrideNZ oral history archive, played on portable speakers to bring in other voices - especially those of well-known figures like Carmen Rupe. These voices add colour and depth while offering a personal connection to the stories told. Audio is carefully curated to suit public spaces, avoiding inappropriate content. The team also provides business cards after tours, which include a link to a post-tour survey and the Walk Tours NZ website. These keepsakes offer attendees a way to provide feedback and stay engaged. Tour timing is carefully considered. Weekends at 1pm and 90-minute durations have proven most successful. Seasonal weather also influences route planning - shelter in winter and shade in summer are both key. Tours are typically advertised three months in advance through a WordPress website and a Facebook page. The registration system helps manage attendance and cancellations, with a 50% turnout rate typical of free events. Paid tours tend to have a higher attendance follow-through. COVID-19 impacted the tours significantly, with a shift to online formats during lockdowns and ongoing caution about group gatherings. The hosts share that they've had mixed results with paid advertising on social media and caution against broad promotions due to negative reactions. Instead, they favour targeted outreach, such as collaborating with community organisations. A successful example was their Bruce Burnett tour, promoted through the Burnett Foundation Aotearoa and others, resulting in strong, engaged attendance. Finally, they highlight the value of aligning with major festivals - Wellington Pride, Queer History Month, Aotearoa Festival of Architecture and the Wellington Heritage Festival - where their tours reach new audiences and receive enthusiastic responses.
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## START TRANSCRIPT WITH TIMESTAMPS [HH:MM:SS]
Kia ora my name's Gareth. And I'm Roger. And together we are from Walk Tours NZ and welcome to this podcast series called Out on the Streets Pride and Place, and it's a four part podcast series exploring how we create Rainbow walk tours, uh, from dreaming and planning to walking and reflecting. So what are we covering in the four episodes? In the first episode, we talked about why walks are so fulfilling and we stepped through the history of Walk Tours NZ [00:00:30] and began to start the process of creating a new tour. We then looked at researching and writing and identifying our tour stops and ways of handling tricky topics. And in this episode we'll look at promotion and marketing. Managing registrations and enhancing the tour with things like visual flip books and audio clips. And then in our final episode we'll look at, uh, what happens on the day of the walk tour, how to manage participants, and then we'll, uh, reflect on some really [00:01:00] exciting outcomes that we've experienced through, through doing these walk tours. So this episode is called The Invitation. Uh, and first up, just a couple of questions that have come in. One from Jamie. Um, asks us about how we handle using contemporary labels on historic figures. For example, would we say Catherine Mansfield was bisexual or lesbian? That's a really interesting question. So for us, we've landed on not [00:01:30] using labels. Uh, for historic figures unless they have self-identified with that label. We have however, um, signposted stories, so we've said things like this is possibly an example of a non-binary life, or, uh, this is, um, an example of a potentially a, a homosexual relationship. Um, but we don't explicitly label people because, um. It is just so hard, isn't it? People [00:02:00] will not, they simply will not stay in the little boxes that we wanna put them in. It's a bit of a problem. But, uh, another example is, for instance, the, uh, relationship between Effie Pollen and ULA Bethel. Now, they lived together for decades and, uh, they shared so much of their lives together. Now, whether that was. Homosexual relationship, whether it was a Homosocial relationship or whether it was something else. [00:02:30] I, I think the fact is that they obviously loved each other. Um, and actually what, what does it matter if we actually don't label it anything? Exactly. They may not have had a word for what they had apart from a, a deep friendship. Maybe. So ultimately we would say, um, really try and avoid labeling where you can, uh, unless it's, uh, uh, self-identification from, from the person you're talking about. So I had another question. Uh, this is from [00:03:00] Clara. Um, and Clara asks, would you recommend a script while walking? I would say yes, I, I would recommend a script with bullet points, uh, specifically the, the, the five or so key bullet points for each stop. Uh. I suggest that because if you don't have a script, uh, you could easily go off track and you could easily be at a stop for 10 or 15 minutes. Uh, and while [00:03:30] you may find that really, um, energizing in terms of, um, it gives you an opportunity to say 10 to 15 minutes worth of, uh, speech, um, for the walkers, and particularly if it's a 90 minute walk tour, uh, that can really balloon out into a a day excursion, which is. Maybe more than they're asking for. Good to keep a bit of discipline, uh, in terms of, of what you're gonna say and make sure that you get around to saying it. Uh, and then get to your next stop. And let's get to our next stop now, and let's talk about, um, where [00:04:00] we are in the tour process. So, uh, over the last couple of episodes we've looked at, uh, how to identify tour stops and also create the narrative for each of those stops. But now. How do we bring the tour alive? How do we make it more engaging? Well, we've found that things like handouts, uh, image flip books and audio snippets, uh, can be really, really useful. Um, and so let's start with the flip books. Uh. Would you use flip book images [00:04:30] versus using an iPad? Yes, I would. And the reason I would, uh, or the reason that we do is that flip book. So these are, these are just plastic, uh, folders with, with, uh, photocopied images in the book. And they have a, a bit of cardboard in the back of each image just to kind of, uh, uh, give it a bit more weight. Um. These are really useful because, uh, one, it's cheaper, um, if it's raining as well, that, you know, you're not worried about kind of, uh, getting the flip [00:05:00] book wet. Uh, whereas if it was an iPad, that would be, um, a bit of an issue. But also I think during COVID and post COVID, um, people are very wary about touching the same surfaces. So like if it's, and people are, you know, using their fingers. On the screen. Um, people are a lot weer about that, whereas, um, a flip book is a lot easier to hand around, just a lot more durable, I think. I mean, I've dropped so many flip books, um, and that's fine. You just pick it up and use it again. I wouldn't be able to drop as [00:05:30] many iPads. I'd be able to use them again. So if we look at just flip books, I think, um, we, we, we go between either one or two flip books a tour, and that's very much dependent on the number of people on the tour. So I think if you've got like, you know, say like, um, one to 10 people, you could easily just have one flip book any more than 10. You'd probably want two flip books of the same images that you can hand around at the same time. I mean, what kind of images do you think, um. [00:06:00] Uh, good for flip books. Flip books are really, really useful, uh, for images of, uh, you, you go to a location say, but the, the building isn't there. Uh, that was on the site of the location where you now are. Um, it's great to be able to show a, a picture of, say a venue, um. Or a person even, uh, who's no longer there when they're really in their heyday. And, um, you can often find images of bars and clubs and things, uh, when they're up and running. Uh, and, and that really helps to bring alive, um, something which actually may not be [00:06:30] there physically anymore. Um, context setting too. They're really useful. Um, newspaper headlines look great. Blown up and put, um, uh, into a flip book. Um, using for quotations, uh, simple graphics two, um, a really effective. Um, that has helped to sort of bring alive some of the history, uh, in a way that a vacant lot doesn't. There's a bit of a, uh, a sequence in terms of how to, how to show images. Um, so when we start talking about a particular topic, uh, we [00:07:00] will raise the, the flip book above our heads and slowly panic around the participants so everyone can see. Uh, the, the, the image. Um, and then as the story progresses, uh, we pass the flip book or flip books around the, the, the, the participants so they can take a closer look. So the key is to have, um, big, bold images, uh, work really well at a distance. Uh, and, uh, you probably want to, uh, not [00:07:30] necessarily focus on. Images with lots of detail because as soon as you introduce detail, people will want to look at the detail, uh, which is fantastic, um, because everyone's engaged. Um, but it is slightly problematic if you have a larger group, say if you have 10 or 20 people each wanting to look at and study the, the images. So, um, really you want to concentrate on. Big, bold images that, um, can be seen from a distance, but also have some kind of [00:08:00] interest when, when you're looking close up. So where might you find images for these flip books? A lot of, uh, places online, so things like, uh, Wikipedia is a great starting point. Um, there are Facebook groups around the country, so in Wellington. There was a group called Lost Gay Wellington that has a, um, a lot of, uh, old images of, of Wellington City Council archives, uh, libraries. So like Wellington Recollect and, and, uh, in Wellington [00:08:30] is, is a fantastic resource. I. The National Library of New Zealand. Um, and, and maybe a really good starting point would be something like digital nz, which is an aggregator website. So it brings over 30 million records of, of things that have happened in New Zealand, um, into one place which you can search on. When you are searching for things, uh, you can look up, uh, names of venues, names of people, of course, street names is a great thing to search on. Uh, try and be as lateral in your thinking as [00:09:00] possible. Uh, I was trying to find the public toilet, which was beside the Wellington Library, uh, and was famous for its, um, uh, association with the Colin Mo affair. I couldn't find an image of it. Anywhere. Um, but it was just through looking through for something else that I just saw the corner of it, um, when it was in Harris Street, uh, in, in a photo. And that allowed me to just refine my searches a bit more to that particular part of the street and, and came across a couple of really good images [00:09:30] of that particular. Public toilet. Many of these websites that we've just mentioned, um, they not only show the historic images online, but they'll make them available for download and reuse. And a big thing to remember is that just because it's online doesn't necessarily mean it can be, uh, reproduced. Um, so you do need to check permissions about what you can and can't do. This is really important too because we have found that, uh, people often take photos of the photos that we have [00:10:00] got in the flip books and then they put them up online. So, um, that just, um, compounds the offense if, if you haven't got permission to use 'em in the first place. There's also. Papers past and papers past is just a, an amazing treasure trove of, uh, newspapers going right back to the 1860s and possibly a little earlier. Um, and they have some really amazing, uh, images of, of individuals. So, for instance, uh, we mentioned Effie pollen before. [00:10:30] Now there's a, an image of Effie pollen, um, I think in the, uh, Christchurch press, I think. Um, and it's very. Pixelated or, um, how they used to print newspapers was, was through dots. And so it's, um, it's a very low resolution image. And one thing we haven't tried in our walk towards yet, but uh, we are looking at trying is the idea of putting those old images into generative AI to reinterpret the image and make it photorealistic again.[00:11:00] We've tried it with Effie and the, the, um. The output is amazing. Um, we are not trying to, uh, uh, fake the images, um, but we are trying to make them and give them a bit more kind of life. And certainly if we were gonna do this, we would want to make sure that we actually acknowledge on the image that it's a interpretation, it's an AI interpretation. And here actually potentially is the original photo as well. Mm-hmm. The key is not to rewrite history, but to celebrate it and to bring it to life as [00:11:30] much as we can. What about handout? Handouts, uh, uh, are great. So when we're talking about handouts, we're talking about things like, uh, business cards and postcards, but actually probably, uh, more specifically we're talking about, um, bits of paper that we can hand out with things like timelines on. So, for example, uh, when we do the Karma and Rupe tour, uh, we offer a handout of, um. A timeline of Carmen's life in Wellington and the [00:12:00] businesses she opened and the location of the businesses along with a link to an online map so people can take that away. This is incredibly useful because when we actually do the walk tour, we are crossing the different times. Um, we are all over the place with times. It's very much a kind of a, a. Geographic location based tour and, and time is coming and going. So, um, that's, that's incredibly useful. How about audio? Um, a [00:12:30] really neat innovation in recent walk tours for us has been using audio snippets from the Pride NZ audio collection, uh, and putting them into some of the stops. And that just adds a whole new dimension in terms of introducing somebody else's voice rather than just us speaking. Uh, particularly for people who have, uh, who spoke very character fully. Um. People like Carmen Rupe. It's great to be able to play a little excerpt of her speaking, but it just adds. [00:13:00] Real color and something a little bit different to the walk tours. And we have a little, um, speaker, a little beatbox speaker. Um, incredibly powerful. I mean, the, the, these are so, so, uh, we, we've got a speaker that's battery charged, uh, and that we, uh, play audio from a smartphone that goes to the portable speaker and it can easily, uh, be heard by, you know, 20 or 30 people in. A public space. Um, so I guess one of the key things is [00:13:30] if you are looking at audio excerpts, remember that you are in a public space and so you have to edit appropriately. So I would not suggest, uh, using any kind of, um, swearing or anything like that, any inflammatory, uh, content I don't think is probably appropriate for a, a public space. Uh, but it really does. Bring the, uh, the walk tours alive when you can hear, hear a firsthand account of, of something that's happened. I think people often like to have [00:14:00] something to take away from walk tours, as well as some great stories and hopefully some pleasant memories. And one of the things that we've developed is, um, uh, the idea of giving business cards, um, to people on the walk tours, which, um, have a jewel purpose, one that's a little keepsake for, uh, the walker. But, uh, the business cards have got a link to a post walk survey, uh, and. Also another link to the website for the walk tours. The survey is great because it gets, gives us some, some, you know, [00:14:30] really valuable feedback on what people thought about the walk tour. Um, and we always appreciate getting feedback. Um, the particular business card that we've got on the back has a quote from Doctor Elizabeth Che, and the quote is, what do we get up for in the morning, if not to change the world? So that's a great quote and it's a lovely thing for people to take away with them. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, let's now move to talk about the tour frequency and, and the best times were found for, for [00:15:00] doing tours. So. Probably our best days are in the weekends, and, um, we found that either a Saturday or a Sunday works really well around about one o'clock. And we've also found that the duration of the tour is, is really good if you set it to about 90 minutes. So that's an hour and a half. We've also found that, um, obviously because. Uh, the weather is seasonal, particularly in Wellington. Um, and we've got a range of walk tours. We like to think [00:15:30] about what the season is likely to be when we are scheduling upcoming walk tours. So, you know, if it's gonna be in the winter seasons, uh, we are thinking, I. About less exposed locations. Uh, we wanted to make sure that there's plenty of cover in case it's raining. Um, likewise if it's gonna be, uh, in the summer, we want to think about where there might be opportunities for shade, where we can stop and, and do our, our talks there. So we're actually advertising the, the walk tours around. You know, three months [00:16:00] out from, from when they actually happen. So we want to kind of, uh, give enough time for people to, to plan, uh, to be, uh, um, available at, at the time. And that kind of brings us into, um, what is our internet presence like, um, what, what, what, how, how do we advertise? Well, firstly, we have a, um, a standalone website. Now, this is a simple. WordPress website. So it's, it's pretty basic. It has a, a page per tour and also [00:16:30] a simple registration form, uh, where people can register for, um, the free tour. And that costs around about $5 a month to, um, to run that WordPress site. And we also have a Facebook social media account, uh, where we can, um, create events for the upcoming tours. Registration we found was incredibly important because. Prior to the time we were using registration, uh, we would, uh, just, uh, say This is a free event [00:17:00] and turn up if you want to. And so, uh, Roger and I would turn up, um, and nobody else would turn up. It's like it only happened a couple of times, but actually quite deflating. Um, and so we thought, well actually we do need to have some kind of registration system so that if nobody registers then we just don't do the tour. Thankfully. Um, that is a very rare occurrence and so. The registration is filling in your name and email address on the Walk Tours website. And then that sends us an [00:17:30] email and that, um, is, is is for two purposes. One is to know that we've actually got. You know, someone on the tour, but we can also manage the tour numbers. And we also have a mechanism to contact people, uh, through their emails if we have to cancel or postpone the tour, uh, due to bad weather. That's only happened a couple of times, hasn't it really? But it is a very necessary, uh, component to the walk tour, being able to contact people just in case there is, um, some unforeseen circumstance that prevents. The to from [00:18:00] happening at that time. Um, interestingly, signups versus turn up ratio is about 50%. Uh, and that's pretty standard that we understand through the sort of volunteer sector. Uh, about 50% of people who express interest will turn up. So if we were wanting a tour of, say. 20 people actually turning up and walking with us. We would, uh, be accepting registrations up to 40, just [00:18:30] around 40 people, uh, knowing that half of them won't turn up. Mm-hmm. And this is really important too, particularly for some of the, uh, bigger festivals and events where there are actual limits to the number of people we can physically have on the walk tour. So it's really good to be able to keep an eye on how many people, but also really good not to close off. Um. Applications to go on the tour, um, too early. Just so that we hit that sweet spot. So knowing about 50% of people are gonna turn up, um, you know, has meant that we've been able to sort of [00:19:00] have really good full walk tours, uh, for a lot of those big events that we've been involved in. Um, now that 50% ratio might change if it was a paid for walk tour. People if they've committed to paying some money or if they've paid some money up front for a walk tour, are much more likely to turn up than if it's a free thing. What kind of effects do you think, uh, COVID has had on the tours and tour numbers? Well, when COVID happened, uh, we moved online, uh, as [00:19:30] the, everyone really, um, and you still can still see some of those walk tours online now if you want to. Um, but after the lockdowns ended, um, people were. More weary. And to this day, I think they are of group activities. So I don't think we've reached quite the heights of numbers that we did pre COVID. But again, I think that's fairly general in the sort of, um, events space in terms of, uh, promoting the tours on other websites. So we've tried promoting via, uh, [00:20:00] websites like Event Finder. Um, and they have a free option, but you do need to submit well in advance, uh, because of their processing times. But I would say be really weary about submitting to too many sites because you also have to think what happens if you have to cancel or postpone the event. How are you going to update all those different sites? Another option, uh, would be to, and, and particularly if you're doing a a, a special anniversary type walk tour, would be to create [00:20:30] a press release and then send it through to websites like scoop dot code nz, um, which may then get picked up by the media or a newspaper and you'll get promotion that way. What about paid promotion on social media? Oh, I, um, we haven't had a good success with paid promotion on social media, uh, because even though you can target your adverts, uh, generally, um. You will also [00:21:00] get to people that don't want to see your advert. And we certainly have had some abusive responses, some negative responses to our, um, adverts for walk tours coming, um, from a very generalized audience. So I. I would not recommend doing paid promotion, um, for your individual walk tours instead. Uh, I think doing something like direct marketing works really well. So, for instance, we did a tour recently for the [00:21:30] 40th anniversary of Bruce Burnett, who was an early HIV AIDS activist. Uh, we had a Facebook event, but we also partnered with the Burnett Foundation who promoted it to their members, and we also sent an a four flyer to organizations that were in the same space. As Burnett Foundation, so, uh, uh, places like body positive and positive Women, and we got a, an amazing turnout and they were in incredibly engaged, all the people that were on the tour. Um, and it was, it was just, just wonderful. Mm-hmm. That was a [00:22:00] really special one. That one we found that our biggest audiences, um, have often come through taking part in larger festivals and we've been really, really. Fortunate to be invited to present, uh, walk tours for festivals like the Wellington Pride Festival, which happens regularly in March. Um, queer History Month, which is in July, the Festival of Architecture, which is September-ish, and the Wellington Heritage Festival, um, which is sort of October, November-ish. And, uh. Each of those, they've [00:22:30] invited us to come back. So that's a sign that whatever we are doing is working both for us and for them. That that kind of leveraging of larger festivals is, is huge because it really brings in different audiences to the walk tours and they are all incredibly engaged. And unlike when you are kind of advertising. To the general public. Sometimes you get those kind of haters online. Um, this is not true for these different festivals. Uh, I think there's, there's a kind of a, um, a threshold you reach. So you're going [00:23:00] to a festival and then you want to see something interesting and something new. Um, and I. Every time we've done a festival, been part of a festival, we've always had, um, incredible experiences. We have. I mean, for instance, with the Wellington Heritage Festival, you know, we often have people come along who wouldn't necessarily come along to one of our Rainbow Walk tours, but are very interested in, uh, a rainbow history of Cuba Street, for instance, in Wellington, which was one of the walk calls, one of the virtual walk calls that we did recently. Uh, and they really enjoyed it and it was a [00:23:30] different audience to what we'd normally get and great. I do feel that we've come to the end of this podcast. You think so? I, I think we do. Um, please, we, we've loved your questions and your thoughts. Please keep sending them in. Uh, love to hear from you. And in our next episode, which will be our last episode, what will we be looking at? Well, I think we'll be looking at what happens on the day of the walk, um, reflections on walk tours, and talking about some unexpected outcomes. Hmm. Sounds interesting. Stay tuned.
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## START KEYWORDS
1860s, 2010s, 2020s, AIDS, Aotearoa New Zealand, Body Positive, Bruce Burnett, Carmen Rupe, Christchurch, Cuba, Cuba Street, Effie Pollen, Events, Gareth Watkins, Harris Street, National Library of New Zealand, People, Roger Smith, Space, Walktours NZ, Wellington, Wellington City Council, Wellington Pride, Wellington Pride Festival, activities, advertising, architecture, archives, audience, bars, bisexual, books, boxes, building, business card, change, clubs, code, council, email, gay, heritage, history, hit, homosexual, homosocial, images online, individual, internet, labels, lesbian, library, love, march, marketing, media, narrative, newspapers, opportunity, other, plan, podcast, press release, public toilet, queer, rainbow, records, resource, rewrite history, running, shade, social, social media, speech, study, success, survey, time, venues, voice, volunteer, walk tour, walking, website, women, work, writing.
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## START REFERENCES
The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/out_on_these_streets_episode_3.html.
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Generated 2025-07-24T19:44:22+12:00.
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