This text file contains detailed information about an audio recording on PrideNZ.com. It includes the following sections: DESCRIPTION, SPEAKERS, SUMMARY, KEY CONTENT TIMESTAMPS [HH:MM:SS], TRANSCRIPT WITH TIMESTAMPS [HH:MM:SS], HUMAN VERIFIED TRANSCRIPT, KEYWORDS, REFERENCES, RELATED CONTENT AND FOOTNOTE. 

## START DESCRIPTION
The title of this recording is "Out On These Streets - episode 2". It is described as: In episode 2, hosts Gareth Watkins and Roger Smith of Walk Tours NZ look at researching and writing, identifying tour stops and ways of handling tricky topics. It was recorded in Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand on the 8th July 2025. The duration of the recording is 15 minutes. The content in the recording covers the decades 1980s through to the 2020s.
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## START SPEAKERS
This is a podcast recording and features the voices of Gareth Watkins and Roger Smith. These names are spelt correctly, but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document.
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## START SUMMARY
In episode two of the podcast series "Out On These Streets: Pride in Place," hosts Gareth Watkins and Roger Smith from Walk Tours NZ focus on the process of researching and writing content for Rainbow Walk Tours. Titled "Mapping Meaning," the episode explores how to develop meaningful tour stops, create engaging narratives, and navigate sensitive or challenging topics. The episode begins by highlighting the key elements that make a successful walk tour. These include physical walking, interesting and relevant locations, emotionally engaging stories, a friendly and diverse group of participants, and passionate hosts. The goal of each tour is not just to share information but to create an experience that resonates emotionally with participants. People remember stories better than raw facts, so it's essential to shape the tour content into a compelling narrative that builds throughout the walk. The hosts explain that before diving into research, it's important to define the structure of the tour, including audience size, duration, and number of stops. An ideal group size is around 20 people, with eight stops lasting five minutes each, plus walking time between locations. This structure results in a tour that lasts between 80 and 90 minutes. The audience is likely to be diverse, including international visitors and people unfamiliar with Rainbow history, so the narrative must be accessible and informative. When choosing a theme or topic, tour creators might focus on anniversaries such as the 40th anniversary of homosexual law reform, highlight specific people like Carmen Rupe or Georgina Beyer, or build the tour around locations like Cuba Street. Tours might also centre on broader themes such as queer artists or a general Rainbow history introduction. The overarching topic and tour name are crucial to catching the public’s attention and shaping the story. The research phase includes brainstorming known individuals, events, and places; reviewing Rainbow history books like Chris Brickell’s Mates and Lovers; examining old magazines and publications; and using resources like PrideNZ. com’s interactive map. It’s also helpful to consider whether locations still hold physical heritage, and if not, to use photos or storytelling techniques to paint a picture of what was once there. In cases where a direct location doesn’t exist, “springboard” stops can provide a platform to tell related stories. Practical considerations are also important. Tour stops should be located in public areas unless specific permissions are obtained. Organisers must consider the accessibility of surfaces, potential weather impacts, ambient noise, and space for participants to stand safely. It’s recommended to walk the route beforehand at a slow pace, imagining a group of people of varying ages and abilities. Writing the tour content can be done by identifying stops first or by writing narratives first, depending on the topic. In many cases, the process is fluid and involves moving back and forth between story development and location identification. Writing in bullet points helps keep delivery natural and avoids the temptation to read from a full script. Spoken language should be clear and accessible, avoiding swearing or too many dates and statistics. Visual elements such as photo flipbooks can help reinforce key points. The hosts also offer guidance on handling difficult topics. The aim is to provide a safe, inclusive environment, so it’s important to signpost sensitive content and avoid overly graphic descriptions. They advise against covering polarising contemporary issues such as police participation in Pride events, preferring to focus on historical context. Respectful language is essential, especially around gender identity and pronoun use. If challenged, hosts should remain calm, respectful, and clear about the tour’s goals and approach.
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## START TRANSCRIPT WITH TIMESTAMPS [HH:MM:SS]
Kia ora, my name's Gareth. And I'm Roger. And together we are from Walk Tours NZ, and welcome to this four-part podcast series called Out on the Streets Pride in Place. This is a four-part podcast looking at how we create Rainbow Walk tours from dreaming and planning to walking and reflecting. So what's coming up over the four episodes? Well, in episode one, we talked about why walk tours are so fulfilling. We stepped through the history of Walk Tours NZ and began to [00:00:30] start the process of creating a new tour. And this episode we'll look at researching and writing, identifying tour stops and ways of handling tricky topics. Then in the next episode we'll look at promotion and marketing, uh, managing registrations and enhancing the tour with things like visual flip books and audio clips. And then in our final episode, we'll look at what happens on the day of the walk tour and how to manage participants and reflect on some of the exciting outcomes that we've [00:01:00] experienced through running walk tours. So today's episode is called Mapping Meaning, and it's all about researching, writing and identifying our tour stops. So firstly, Roger, what, what are the key ingredients for you for a good walk tour? Well, walking for a start, good one, but also interesting stops, compelling narratives. Uh, an engaged, friendly group. And engaged hosts. I think after doing a walk tour, uh, a lot of people and, and certainly I do, [00:01:30] um, come away with a whole variety of, uh, feelings and, and knowledge, so. One thing is people take away knowledge from the tour, but they also take away the, the, the passion of, of the tour guides and also the, um, embedded emotion in, in the narrative that you talk about. So people learn and remember differently. And so it's not about just throwing a lot of information at people because that's not how a lot of people learn. You wanna think about how you can turn pure information [00:02:00] into a compelling story that builds through the tour as a whole. Well, let's get started by thinking back to that first episode where we visualized the walk tour and also the type of audience that we were looking at. So we talked about the group size and, and for us it's around about 20 walkers, which is ideal. We also looked at the duration of the tour, so the number of stops, the time at each stop and the distance between stops. We found that eight five minute stops, that's 40 minutes of talking. [00:02:30] Plus about 40 minutes of walking, uh, makes 80 to 90 minutes all up. I think we realized that the makeup of the audience. Can be incredibly diverse and you just don't know who is gonna be on that walk tour. So you might have international visitors who don't have any, uh, context about local events or politicians. Uh, you may have, uh, members of the general public who aren't part of the rainbow communities, but the great thing is they are all coming on the walk tour to find out [00:03:00] more. So with all that in mind, we first need to think about the overarching topic of the tour. Is the tour based around particular anniversaries, like a tour to mark the 40th anniversary of homosexual law reform. We've done tours around, uh, clustering geographic locations. So for instance, in Wellington around the Cuba Street precinct, I. You might be highlighting a specific individual. For instance, we've done Carmen Rupe Walk Tours and maybe a Georgina Bayer one. There's also, uh, you [00:03:30] can group things like, uh, around a particular theme. So for instance, we've done a tour about, uh, not so straight artists. I. Or even a general introduction tour like a queer History 1 0 1, the overarching topic and how you name it is what will catch people's attention. So, for example, the Carmen Rupe tour, uh, is called the Fabulous Carmen Walk Tour, tea, toasties, and Trade. And we'll talk a bit more about the promotion and marketing, uh, of walk tours in the next episode. So the [00:04:00] next step is to learn as much as we can about the topic that we want to cover, and then it's really about focusing it down into, uh, for us it was eight walk stops, uh, each lasting around about five minutes. Uh, so this involves researching, writing, focusing the story, and repeat distilling down information and that whole thing of just. Repeating the process again and again and again until you've actually come down to the kernels of actually what you want to impart to [00:04:30] people. What comes first? Rod? Do we identify tour stops or do we write the narrative? Well, it depends on the overarching topic. Uh, for example, if the tour is about a cluster of geographic locations, you may want to start identifying the stop locations. Whereas if it's a tour about an individual, you might wanna think about eight. Key narratives you want to tell and then fit them to locations. Of course, you could also do these two steps in parallel and really don't be afraid, um, [00:05:00] as you dive deeper in, into the topic, um, that you will adjust, uh, the stops or the narratives. Um, it, it, it's, it's, it's a very fluid kind of creation of, of the tour. So for this podcast, let's begin by looking at identifying walk tour stops. I think firstly look at practicalities. So the duration between the stops needs to be a total of about 40 minutes of walking. That means if there are eight stops, you only wanna walk for about five minutes between [00:05:30] each. The first stop should be easy for walkers to find. Uh, so pick a natural landmark that people know for the first gathering point. For example, civic Square in Wellington. Also pick an end point. So this, uh, could be potentially the same as the starting point. So you, you kind of walk round in a, a bit of a circle, or it could be another part of the city. Key advice is to stick to public spaces unless you have permission from, um, the private property owner, you want to be on public land. [00:06:00] This also includes things like, uh, getting permissions from local authorities. For example, in Wellington, uh, RI Cemetery requires an event permit to actually have a tour through the cemetery. And you wanna think about the weather and how that might affect the tour stop. Is there any shelter from the wind or the rain or the sun? Even think about noise around the tour stop. Particularly if there's heavy traffic noise. Uh, will the walkers actually be able to hear you? And you also wanna think too about the surface that people will be [00:06:30] stopping on. Is it uneven pavement? Is there an incline? Is the pavement too narrow to accommodate the tour group and passes by? There is so much to think about, but we shouldn't, we, we, we don't want. To put you off by thinking I've got to remember all of this information because actually, uh, the creation of the walk tours is very organic, and I think as you create more and more walk tours, this will become second nature and you won't even think about it. Um, it will be very much more about looking at the, the narrative structure [00:07:00] of the tour. Okay, so let's do some basic brainstorming. Whew. Okay. Brainstorming. So what about, um, writing down any names of people, places that could, uh, still be existing, or they may be in the past and don't exist anymore, or events that you already know about that could be potential stops. Then use Rainbow History publications like Chris Brickle, mates and Lovers. There are things like, um, old Rainbow Magazines, pink Triangle and out, [00:07:30] um, and look at some of the advertisements there. For instance, many of these are online, um, particularly things like, uh, Victoria University's Salient Student Magazine, or the Feminist Broadsheet Magazine. And both those magazines have got, uh, uh, a lot of adverts from the, um, seventies and earlier, uh, which you can incorporate into stops. I should also do a, a bit of a shameless plug for pride nz. com. Uh. Pride, NZ has got a very rich map of locations, particularly in Wellington. So that's a great [00:08:00] starting point. Something else to think about is does the location still contain physical heritage? You can talk to, for instance, if the building's been removed. Are there photographs you can show as to how it used to look? And remember, if you can't identify any specific locations that are potentially to stops, you could think about. Springboard locations. So a springboard location is, for instance, you are standing outside a public library and this gives you the opportunity to talk about [00:08:30] a local author or a local publication. Standing outside a courthouse gives you the opportunity to talk about crime or the justice system. Okay, so you've got a basic idea of the root. The next thing to do is do a test, walk and time it. Walk slower than you normally would. And imagine, say 20 people walking behind you of all ages and abilities. And this is where we really need to start focusing. So at each stop, we need to say to ourselves, why are we stopping [00:09:00] here? What stories can we tell? If you can only say five key things at the stop, what would they be? Keeping that in mind, we need to remember how much context do we need to give for international, national, local participants? How can you tie the stories at the stop with the previous one or the stop coming up? Sometimes you don't need to, and that's okay. Also, think about local history verse international history. So while international movements have really [00:09:30] shaped our local history here in art. We are not the US and we're not the United Kingdom. So our history is unique. So we really need to for, for, for our walk tours, think about what was happening locally and then how did the international, um, uh, events change what was happening in this country. Even if you are going to deliver the tour without holding a script, it's a really good idea to write one and practice with it in the first place and really think [00:10:00] about writing in. Bullet style. Um, this is so, so, so not necessarily full sentences. These are just ideas. These are memory joggers. Um, because if it's, if you're writing a full script, um, it really is very enticing to actually read it, and it's a good idea to, to write as you speak. Remember, you are speaking in public too, so adjust your language and content. I wouldn't swear. Good idea. You never know who's [00:10:30] in the audience and what relationship they have to what you are saying. So again, this comes back to respect and it comes back to how you shape your narratives and the language you use. Uh, I think we'd limit the number of dates and statistics and people's names. Now, these are really hard for people to remember, particularly if you've got lots of them, and these are already good things to think about. But also think too about using short quotations and, uh, visually back [00:11:00] up what you are saying with things like visual flip books, but more about that in the next episode. Well, let's now talk about some potentially, uh, polarizing subjects. We should first recap from the first episode what we're aiming for here, and that is that we want to create a safe and inclusive event for everyone attending. I. So that means aiming for a safe, welcoming, and accessible experience. We want to consider the emotional impact of participating in [00:11:30] a rainbow event in public. Now, promote respectful storytelling. You don't know who's in the audience, and you want to sign posts sensitive or challenging content. And it's a good idea too, to have a strategy for handling disagreements or difficult moments. So with that all in mind, we would suggest really keeping focused on your overarching tour theme. And this means, certainly for us, it means staying away from talking about more. Generalized politics or religion are two [00:12:00] flashpoints. So yeah, focus on historic stories versus contemporary stories. Contemporary stories can be problematic as they're prone to generate diverse opinions. For example, we wouldn't necessarily write a stop about the involvement of police or defense forces marching in pride, for instance. Um, as there might be multiple differing opinions, uh, within the group who are walking with you. However, you. Could potentially tell a historic story, uh, that comments on contemporary issues. For example, um, in the, in the [00:12:30] case of police, you could look at how the police related to rainbow communities in the 1980s and then throw forward to saying, well, how are, how are police nowadays? And another example is language use. It's important if you are using language from a different era to note why you are using it. For example, saying Georgina Bay was a transsexual trailblazer. This will not be helpful, but instead say something like, Dina Baa self-identified as a transsexual. So this qualifies why [00:13:00] we're using the word transsexual and is honoring how she self-identified. Now, pronouns are another issue that have only been raised, uh, a couple of times on our walks over the last eight years. Uh, and we've had, um, one or two walkers question why we don't refer to someone's birth name and gender at birth. So as a host, um, I think where both Roger and I have landed is to be respectful, but firm saying something along the lines, at this time on [00:13:30] this tour, this is what we're doing. Like we're honoring the people and how they self-identified. So we're only touching on parts of their lives. And if you want to read more about them, uh, there's always the internet. I think the, the key is. You don't want to get into a debate, you don't wanna cause ill feeling between the walkers and the walkers and yourselves. Um, you actually all want to get on and have a, have a good experience. And what about balancing light and dark stories? Many. Historic situations [00:14:00] involving rainbow communities are interwoven with the justice system. And this is because crime or being a victim of crime was one of the primary ways newspapers highlighted rainbow individuals, but not necessarily in a positive way. So I think we've tried to rebalance the overall tours. Um. We might have dark stories, but we also have stories of resilience and perseverance, uh, to really bring out that kind of light and shade. It's important to [00:14:30] signpost before you start talking, if it's a hard story. So for example, a tragic death or a suicide. And limit the amount of graphic descriptions. Again, that comes back to we just dunno who is in the audience and we dunno what experiences they've had. So that's, that's really fantastic advice, Roger. Thank you. So what if the tour stops at a geographical location, but the building no longer exists? How can you conjure a mental image for the walkers? We might leave that for next time, because next time we're [00:15:00] talking about marketing promotion, flip books, audio, uh, that we can incorporate into the tours, as well as other things like, uh, handouts. So join us again for episode three, Kaki.
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## START KEYWORDS
1980s, 2010s, 2020s, Aotearoa New Zealand, Carmen Rupe, Coming Up, Cuba, Cuba Street, Events, Gareth Watkins, Homosexual Law Reform, People, Roger Smith, United Kingdom, Walktours NZ, Wellington, advice, audience, author, birth name, books, building, change, crime, death, emotional, feelings, gender, heritage, history, homosexual, individual, internet, justice, knowledge, language, law, library, magazines, makeup, marketing, memory, narrative, nature, newspapers, opportunity, other, passion, podcast, police, politics, pronouns, public library, public spaces, queer, rainbow, religion, resilience, respect, running, shade, spaces, statistics, storytelling, straight, strategy, structure, suicide, time, trade, victim, walk tour, walking, wind, writing.
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## START REFERENCES
The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/out_on_these_streets_episode_2.html.
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Generated 2025-07-24T19:44:09+12:00.
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