The title of this recording is "Des Smith and John Jolliff - Out in the Park (2018)". It is described as: Des Smith and John Jolliff talk about Out in the Park and reflect on how it all started back in 1986. It was recorded in Waitangi Park, Te Aro, Wellington on the 24th February 2018. This is an interview with Des Smith and John Jolliff. The interviewer is Gareth Watkins. Their names are spelt correctly, but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 6 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Des and John talk about Out in the Park and reflect on how it all started back in 1986. The content in the recording covers the decades 1980s through to the 2010s. A brief summary of the recording is: In the "Out in the Park (2018)" interview recorded on February 24, 2018, at Waitangi Park in Te Aro, Wellington, Des Smith and John Jolliff reflect on the genesis and evolution of Wellington's iconic LGBTQ+ event which began in 1986. Interviewer Gareth Watkins leads the conversation, eliciting insights from Smith and Jolliff about the fair's origins, its influence over the years, and the ongoing importance of visibility and community support in the face of adversity. Out in the Park was conceived as a fair promoting fair laws, preceding the homosexual law reform. Smith recounts starting the event with two others and then taking it upon themself to run it for a decade. The fair's initial motive was closely tied to advocacy for LGBTQ+ rights, symbolized by the tagline "a fair for a fair law." Strikingly, the fair demanded a three-month commitment every year, which resulted in financial strain for those organizing it. Jolliff emphasizes the remarkable change over the years - from the diversity and vibrancy of participants to the involvement of groups like ST Vincent de Paul and the Salvation Army, which once opposed the cause. This participation marked a substantial shift from the earlier years when these organizations would not even display a poster for the event. Jolliff brings forward the concept of visibility and vigilance, highlighting them as essential elements that maintain progress and protect community rights, as advised by politician Fran Wilde during law reform. The visibility maintained by events like Out in the Park is crucial to countering homophobia, racism, and other societal issues. The conversation also honors the memory of significant figures in Wellington's LGBTQ+ community, such as Dana de Milo, Shelley Howard, and Virginia Parker-Bowles, recognizing the roles they played and the adversities they faced. Smith particularly recalls the injustices endured by transgender individuals like de Milo, and how such treatment is unacceptable today. As individuals who have seen the landscape of LGBTQ+ rights evolve, both Smith and Jolliff have, in their later years, shifted focus to broader issues like conservation. However, they underscore the continued necessity to support the LGBTQ+ community, advising individuals to be comfortable with their identity and partake in life with enjoyment, while also acknowledging the community's ingrained place within the broader societal context. The interview is a testament to the value and impact of Out in the Park, not just as an LGBTQ+ event but as a transformative community gathering that has adapted and grown through over three decades. It serves as a repository of communal memory, a celebration of progress, and a call to continue the journey towards inclusivity and acceptance. The full transcription of the recording follows.  It includes timestamps every thirty seconds in the format [HH:MM:SS].  The transcription begins:  So was, uh, dear and John Des and John. Well, now you've got a long history with this fear, don't you? I have very long history seeing me. I started up with two others in 1986 before homosexual law reform was passed. And then, uh, the following year, I continued on my own and ran it for 10 years. The joy was it was a fair for a fair law. That was how it was promoted and happened since we've had some fair laws. So what, this? Did you ever think it would be [00:00:30] around 32 years after after you had formed it? No, I didn't think about that. But all I know that is, I It worked well, and I That's why I kept that up for 10 years. But then it was the threat of of divorce if I read another one that after 10 years, Yeah, but because in those days would take about three months off work to organise it. Yeah, and that meant no income. That was starving. [00:01:00] So when you look around today, um, can you describe for me What? What, What we're seeing? Yeah, it's just that a lot of people and the diversity of the people, the colour and also the noise and and and lots of people to wave out to. But we know which is great. And yeah, it's it's just changed. And a lot of young people and, uh, and so many more people from when we first started. So that was great 11 [00:01:30] of the joys is that, uh, there are people here who would have nothing to do with this in 1986. I mean, you have got ST Vincent de Paul running a store, and Vinnie would not even take a poster in Newtown for the fairs. Yeah, and of course, we all know the history of the Salvation Army, and I'm still not likely to buy anything off their store. I have to admit that, uh, I still feel a little bit. Uh uh. I think my he is sort of get a raise or whatever, but [00:02:00] anyway, when I do see the religious groups which gave us such a hard time, so anyway. But that's in the past. Let's go forward well, and it's good to see that there's there's real energy. It it seems I've just visited a couple of the stalls. There seems to be a real energy for change, for making things more inclusive and more accepting that that's true. And and this is it And the visibility is the importance. And people say, Why do you need a gay lesbian [00:02:30] pride march? Why do you need a fair if we don't? We're not visible. We get lost from everyone else and therefore homophobia will increase and racism and all those things that we don't want in our society. So, yeah, be out. Be proud Picking up on Desi's Point. I've never forgotten Fran Wild during law reform, so there are two vs. You need to remember visibility and vigilance because there are people who still want to turn back the clock. And as Des is, if [00:03:00] we're not visible, they might just get an edge in and sort of change political views. It's been quite a sad year for the Wellington kind of rainbow LGBTI communities with a number of people passing away people like, you know, Donna de Milo and Shelley and, um, Virginia case. And yes, yes. Do you have any memories that you want to share? Well with Dana? I mean, Dana to us is magic or was magic. She was amazing because [00:03:30] a person who is transgender, who stood up and if you know about her history and the way the cops treated her way back and took her to the police station and made a strip off to put men's clothing on. And I mean, that would not happen now. I mean, anything like that happening now would just hit the headlines. And so yeah, and I remember Case and, uh, John Mackay, people like that who were so involved with the Victoria Club [00:04:00] and also the grain assault, the restaurant they ran. And yeah, it's, uh yeah, but I suppose now nearly 80 that, uh, it won't be long before we'll be talked about hopefully Or maybe we'll be forgotten silently fade away. I don't believe that you'll be forgotten or silently fade away, just trying to get that feeling. But what I but most [00:04:30] of my energies now, I just feel very comfortable that the gay community is out there. So most of my energies now with conservation and I often said, uh, if it weren't through the bigots and of homophobia, conservation would have gained far more because that's where my first lover has been involved with restoration of our forests and also of educating people on how to look after the Earth. And [00:05:00] let's hope we look after the people. They are on the earth and we look after the Earth. So that's where my energy is these days. I don't think I can really add to that except go back to your comment about Donna. I think Donna was absolutely incredible. She had a terrible time and she didn't seem to harbour any bitterness. And she had a charm and an energy, and it was just a sheer delight. And I shall miss her very much if somebody [00:05:30] can't attend today or can't attend the other pride events, for whatever reason. What what kind of message would you like to give them? Just, uh, be out. Be proud and just remember that, uh, it's a good idea to try and support the gay community events because that way we are we are out and and that for those who can't attend for other reasons or are still [00:06:00] hiding in the closet, just think about who you are. Feel OK and comfortable with who you are. and then you can go forth in life and enjoy it. Have fun, I. I would endorse that. I would say it's very important to be out if you possibly can. But if you can't enjoy life and there's nothing to stop you from coming to a gay fair because you don't have to be gay to do so. This is a community event, a broader community [00:06:30] event, and that's one of the very important things that has happened. It's not an isolated clique which is healthy or a fair. We're part of the community, their own good on us. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 1980s ; 2010s ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Cees Kooge ; Dana de Milo ; Des Smith ; Events ; Fran Wilde ; Grain of Salt ; Homosexual Law Reform ; John Jolliff ; John McKay ; LGBT ; Lesbian and Gay Fair ; Out in the Park (Wellington) ; People ; Salvation Army ; Shelley Te Waiariki Howard ; St Vincent de Paul Society (Wellington) ; The Closet ; Victoria Club ; Virginia Parker-Bowles ; Waitangi Park ; Wellington ; army ; change ; closet ; clothing ; community ; conservation ; diversity ; energy ; fear ; fun ; gay ; hiding ; history ; hit ; homophobia ; homosexual ; homosexual law reform ; hope ; law ; lesbian ; march ; other ; passing ; police ; racism ; rainbow ; running ; sad ; straight ; support ; time ; transgender ; vigilance ; visibility ; work. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/out_in_the_park_2018_des_and_john.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089798. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.