The title of this recording is "Craig Hutson - Out in the Park (2018)". It is described as: Craig Hutson talks about being part of the Salvation Army and also being part of the Faith Communities United in Love stall at Out in the Park. It was recorded in Waitangi Park, Te Aro, Wellington on the 24th February 2018. Craig Hutson is being interviewed by Gareth Watkins.  Their names are spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 11 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Craig Hutson talks about being part of the Salvation Army and also being part of the Faith Communities United in Love stall at Out in the Park. The content in the recording covers the decades 1980s through to the 2010s. A brief summary of the recording is: In an illuminating interview at Waitangi Park, Te Aro, Wellington, recorded on February 24, 2018, a person identified as Craig Hutson discusses the intersection of faith and LGBTQI+ identity, specifically within the context of the Salvation Army and the wider faith community's journey towards inclusiveness. The interview, part of the podcast, "Out in the Park," facilitated by Gareth Watkins, delves into Hutson's personal experiences and the broader movement towards change and acceptance in religious communities over the decades from the 1980s to the 2010s. The interviewee describes being a part of the "Faith Communities United in Love" stall at the event "Out in the Park," which represents a collaboration of LGBTQI+ individuals, allies, and members across diverse faith groups. The coalition aims to spread love and challenge anti-LGBTQI+ sentiments within faith communities. Representing individual perspectives from several denominations, including St Andrew’s on the Terrace and St Peter’s church, the members strive to address historical attitudes within these institutions, particularly within the Salvation Army. Navigating a dual identity as both a Salvationist and a part of the LGBTQI+ community, the interviewee reflects on the struggles endured, especially during the years leading up to coming out approximately five years prior to the recording. The journey discussed involved reconciling family relationships, self-affirmation, and dispelling the belief that Christian faith and LGBTQI+ identity are mutually exclusive. Additionally, the interviewee acknowledges the hardships faced by the Salvation Army during the 1986 Homosexual Law Reform, explaining the ongoing efforts to educate and create dialogue within the organization. The interviewee believes in the power of patience, visibility, and open conversation to effect gradual change within the Salvation Army. The personal account given emphasizes the fundamental change in the individual's life post-coming out, the largely positive reception from family and community, and the significance of maintaining visibility to organically foster change. The conversation also touches upon more recent progressive steps taken by the Salvation Army, such as endorsing the expungement of historical convictions of gay men. The individual’s personal ties within the Salvation Army and their family's supportive stance highlight an evolving narrative within religious spaces concerning LGBTQI+ issues. The audio caps with a reflection on the experience of participating in "Out in the Park" as a visible member of both the Salvation Army and LGBTQI+ community. The recollection signifies a shift from initial hesitancy to empowered public presence and the importance of creating safe spaces for dialogue, fostering understanding, and facilitating the reconciliation of faith with one’s authentic self. The interviewee's insights are framed against the backdrop of ongoing societal and religious progression, capturing a significant transitional period in New Zealand's history with regard to LGBTQI+ rights and acceptance. The full transcription of the recording follows.  It includes timestamps every thirty seconds in the format [HH:MM:SS].  The transcription begins:  Um, so we're at the faith communities United Love store. Um, we're made up of a group of, um, people, LGBTI, allies, friends, family, um, from a number of different faith groups and just here to, um, sort of spread the message of love, but also, um, challenge some of the, um, paths within different faith communities that, um, are anti LGBTI, um or, [00:00:30] you know, a bit convoluted or on a journey. So So So which faith communities are you Are you representing here today? Um, so we've got, um, Saint Andrews on the terrace. We've got Saint Peter's. We've got, um, a number of people from the Salvation Army. Um, which is on a bit of a path, um, of of conversation and change. And so we're representing ourselves as, um, individual salvation iss, who are sort of doing work to, um, [00:01:00] challenge some of those, um, some of the views that, um, in the past have not necessarily been in line with affirming the LGBTI community. So you're a salvation yourself. I'm a salvation. So how how do you feel within that? Within that space? I mean, because, as you say, I mean, you know, you go back 30 years, and it was pretty anti, I suppose. In terms of my personal story, it's, um it was a very it was a very hard road, to be honest. And, um, I came out about five years [00:01:30] ago, um, in the closet pretty much completely for that period of time. Very isolated. Um, and the last five years has really been a journey of, um I guess reconnecting with family, um, affirming myself, um, and trying to bring those two parts together. Um, because I guess, um, there is often a view that being a Christian and being gay or, um, LGBTI is [00:02:00] not something that can be together. Um, and definitely, um, salvation and G BT I, um, and trying to sort of navigate a little bit of the fact that there was, um, some of the things that happened during the 1986 law reform. Um, yeah, navigate that, um, myself, um, often feeling isolated by that, um, but also, yeah, just working towards, um, continually having conversations and, um, trying to [00:02:30] educate people within the Salvation Army. Um, around, you know, being LGBTI. And do you think it is changing? I do. It's just um it's one of those things that I've had to have those points where you have to show a bit of patience, you know? And I think after, I mean, I was in the closet for probably 33 from birth, you know, 33 years, Um, And when you've been in that space for that period of time, there is this real [00:03:00] desire to sort of like, we've got to see this change. Um, and yeah, there has to have I've had to sort of show, I suppose a bit of grace and understand. Um I mean, I myself had to sort of work on a lot of my views and challenge, um, internal internalised homophobia, and, um, you know, my ideas on on gender identity. Um, And so yeah, I, I guess it. This is the thing [00:03:30] that, um, visibility is important. Um, I've been really lucky to have gained almost sort of 99%. Um, in my coming out experience, 99% positive. Um, people affirmed me people. Um, my parents both told me they're so proud. Um and yeah, I suppose it just is that thing. We we keep being visible. We we keep having those conversations [00:04:00] and, um, bit by bit. So you know, when people are confronted with it, Well, we've got people who we love that are in our community. Um, it organically kind of creates that change. So, um, it's still there. There's a way to go, but we are working on it. So So what is it like for you personally today to be here, really visible at out in the park? Um, and also being a salvation. Um, well, let's say last year was the first year that we, um we managed to kind of get the blessing [00:04:30] from, um, some of the senior leadership within the Salvation Army to actually wear our red shield. Um, and I think for me, it was one of those, um, I was actually we got the blessing so we can wear it. It's just some of the knowledge that, um you know, I think some people can potentially see it as offensive, Um, because of what happened in 1986. Um, and potentially because of some of the ongoing stuff. Um, so I think there's a [00:05:00] little bit. Last year there was a bit of hesitancy. I had to kind of, um, dig deep a bit and just affirm, um, who I am and kind of know that for me. It's, uh I'm about everyone feeling good. You know, I'm about affirming same sex relationships. I'm about affirming people's gender identity. Um, actually, at the store today with fund raising, Um, as part of our, um, baking, we've got a jar for a half of the intersex, um, youth. Um, so I I'm all about [00:05:30] that, um And I think this year there's a you know, I jumped that hurdle, um, last year. And yeah, it really is just like I'm here. I know who I am. Um, and the only way he's kind of forward. Um, yeah, and it's really nice to see that you're you're creating a space where you're opening up conversations where people can actually come and talk to you and say, Well, you know, this is maybe what happened and and actually have a dialogue with you, Definitely. And, um, it's quite good. Um I mean, I I've probably been involved [00:06:00] in a lot of the logistics this time, so I haven't had too many conversations, but definitely last year it was really good to um, I think often when we've had conflict, uh, people can get very entrenched in opposing sort of, um, places and views. And, um, I went to the the 30 year anniversary of the law reform. Um, and yeah, again, sort of a bit of that nervousness around like, Oh, you know, Salvation Army. Really, [00:06:30] Um, has a little bit of a people. People have an axe to grind, and rightly so, um, I was still relatively new to being out and still actually working on, um, because it's not just that one. Like, you know, some people it is like, Hey, for me, it's definitely been getting comfortable As I become more open, become more authentic with who I am, um, deal with the the sort of, um, that kind of dynamic that that creates around you. Um and [00:07:00] yeah, I suppose, Um, yeah, it is that thing. There's these often these entrenched, opposing views, and and And you can start to lose what? The truth is behind that, um, and there can be these very blinkering comments, um, and say the Salvation Army side there can be this like, Oh, this is, um this is what it is. to be LGBTI or we've decided all this stuff. And, um, I noticed that the, um yeah, the anniversary of the law reform. Sometimes there are these comments Where, [00:07:30] um, with the Salvation Army. Uh, they were very blinding, and there's truth to it. But, um, you know, some of the stuff that I found out recently was that, um the petition was started by another church, and it's the Salvation Army that did come behind and endorse it, but in that there was actually, um, we have the, um, territorial leader, Um, and, uh, with some of his members around him, they had decided [00:08:00] Oh, we will endorse the petition. Um, one of his offs siders. Um, actually said, I don't think that's something we really want to do. I think that that will create what it eventually did. A lot of damage. Um, and he actually sent through to, um, the international headquarters. You know, this is what's happening here. What do you recommend? I. I really feel that we shouldn't be endorsing this petition. I don't think that it's something that, um is going to be good for us and definitely not good for [00:08:30] just people within our, um, you know, within New Zealand. And, um, yeah, because I suppose back then it was just letters and telephones it did take, um, by the time the response came back, the local leadership in New Zealand had already decided, Um, you know, this is this is what we're doing and and endorsed it. Um, and and, you know, we ended up as we did. Um, but it's just this point in my coming out just learning, um, things that, you know, There's [00:09:00] a lot of salvation that didn't agree with it at the time. Um, And for me personally, um, it's quite strange because I guess, you know, you have a lot of stuff that put self doubt into you, Um, made you, like, what are people going to think if they know that I'm gay? Um, and, uh, interestingly, my my dad's the national director of the, um, social policy and parliamentary unit for the Salvation Army. Um, and he was writing stuff on, um, you know, challenging [00:09:30] some of the views on homosexuality before I came out. Um, and so his motivation, you could say, Oh, his motivation. He's got a gay son. Well, it wasn't actually, um, that's become more of a motivation now that he knows. But, um, yeah, right. Probably from the time of the law reform. You know, someone asked him, Would you like to sign this petition? And he said, Oh, no, no. Actually, I don't know if I really agree with it. Um, so he's He's been a, um you know, big [00:10:00] advocate for me. Um, and, uh, recently, um, we, uh, as part of the faith community stores, um, a number of the out in the parks. We, um, had a petition here for the, um, retrospective pardoning of gay men. Um, prior to the law reform, um, and, you know, recently that was submitted, and that's sort of going through the process. Um, but just last year, the Salvation Army, um, social policy and parliamentary [00:10:30] unit put forward a submission to, um, support the expungement of the historic convictions. So there is change kind of happening. What is it personally like for you to be here on a on a day like today? Um, yeah, it's that thing. I guess it's a journey. It's been a journey, I think. When I first turned up to some of the um, pride events. Yeah, there was a lot of the apprehension. There's like, there's those points like, Oh, my gosh. Like what? What if people [00:11:00] see me here, you know, and yeah, I mean, part of it is just like, Well, you've got to be who you are. Um, sometimes, depending on on you know what you've been through That does take a bit of time to To to get there. Um but I'd say this year definitely is the first year that I just am in that place where it's like, I am who I am And all the parts of Of what? Banks? Me up as a person, um, continually just come together. And I get that harmony I. I, um [00:11:30] Yeah, you're just able to sort of be you in all the different ways, so yeah. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 1980s ; 2010s ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Christianity ; Craig Hutson ; Criminal Records (Expungement of Convictions for Historical Homosexual Offences) Act 2018 ; Events ; Faith Communities United in Love ; Historic Convictions ; Homosexual Law Reform Act (1986) ; Intersex Youth Aotearoa ; Job ; LGBT ; Out in the Park (Wellington) ; People ; Salvation Army ; Space ; St Andrew's on the Terrace ; St Peter's church ; Stuff ; The Closet ; Waitangi Park ; Wellington ; acceptance ; advocate ; allies ; army ; baking ; blessing ; change ; church ; closet ; closeted ; coming out ; community ; conflict ; conversation ; convictions ; desire ; education ; expungement ; face ; faith ; family ; fear ; filming ; friends ; fundraising ; gaming ; gay ; gender identity ; hate ; history ; hit ; homophobia ; homosexual law reform ; homosexual law reform petition ; individual ; isolation ; journey ; knowledge ; law ; leadership ; logistics ; love ; parents ; petition ; petition on historic convictions ; policy ; prevention ; pride ; punishment ; relationships ; salvationist ; sex ; social ; submission ; support ; time ; tinder. com ; truth ; visibility ; work ; writing. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/out_in_the_park_2018_craig_hutson.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089796. Craig Hutson also features audibly in the following recordings: "Out in the City (2021)". Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.