The title of this recording is "Nathaniel - Beyond Rainbows". It is described as: Nathaniel talks about identifying as a takataapui trans man. It was recorded in Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand on the 28th January 2015. This is an interview with an unidentified interviewee (or possibly interviewees) conducted by Tabby Besley. The name is spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 23 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Nathaniel talks about identifying as a takatāpui trans man. The content in the recording covers the 2010s decade. A brief summary of the recording is: This podcast, titled "Nathaniel - Beyond Rainbows", is an interview with a Māori individual identifying as takatāpui and transgender, conducted by Tabby Besley. Throughout the 23-minute discussion, Nathaniel expresses the importance of cultural and gender identity to their overall sense of self, with a particular focus on the intersection of being Māori and part of the queer community. Nathaniel emphasizes identifying as Māori ahead of any other aspect of their identity and recounts a transformative experience at the Hui Takatāpui, where they met like-minded individuals who shared similar struggles of feeling marginalized within their own culture. Learning about the historical presence and role of queer individuals in Māori culture was a pivotal moment for Nathaniel, leading to a deeper understanding and appreciation of their cultural heritage. Nathaniel describes the personal journey of navigating gender identity, which included moving schools and changing names to better align with a true sense of self. The supportive environment of Wellington High School, coupled with encountering other transgender individuals, helped Nathaniel feel affirmed in their identity. Discussions around representation and role models reveal Nathaniel's perception of the current media landscape as lacking but slowly progressing. Nathaniel highlights a need for more authentic, diverse queer characters in media, including those who face hardships, echoing a broader call for increased visibility and normalization of the queer community. Regarding community, Nathaniel details the significance of finding and immersing oneself in a queer community, emphasizing how critical these spaces were during the formative teenage years. However, Nathaniel notes a lack of transgender men within these circles, identifying a gap in representation and mentorship. The podcast transitions to conversations about medical issues faced by the transgender community in New Zealand, particularly the challenges surrounding access to surgery and hormones. Nathaniel calls for systemic changes that would see surgeries for transgender individuals funded and not categorized as cosmetic. Nathaniel concludes by advocating for more inclusive educational content in schools that addresses queer identities and relationships, emphasizing the potential positive impact on young individuals grappling with their gender and sexual identities. The podcast encapsulates a raw and personal narrative that sheds light on the interplay between cultural identity and gender identity, the power of community and visibility, and the ongoing struggles of transgender individuals in accessing proper medical care and representation. It underlines the desire for growth and acceptance within the Māori and wider New Zealand society for those in the Rainbow community. The full transcription of the recording follows.  It includes timestamps every thirty seconds in the format [HH:MM:SS].  The transcription begins:  How would you describe your identity? Uh, male. Just that. That's just it. Yeah. I just so happen to be a trans male. Yep. Awesome. Wait. Does that identity mean in another sense, like anything? Yeah. Any words you might use to describe your identity? Well, identify as Maori before anything else. Yeah. Cool. Um, when did you first become aware that you were in late [00:00:30] 2011 and, Yeah, I had met first person in Wellington after someone had told me about schools out, and I was like, Oh, who are they? And they were like, Oh, yeah, that's this person. And they're that. And I was like, Oh, wow, I think I'm that And, um, yeah, I kind of went on a travelling bit of figuring out who I was for the past, Like a year [00:01:00] or so and then? Yeah, kind of stuck with it now. So did you feel like, um, either or both of those identities, um, make you a minority within in the queer community? Um, I guess so. Y. Yeah. Kind of probably being Is there much of a community? Um so I I didn't know that many until, uh, just [00:01:30] this year when I had attended, which was one of the best experiences of my life. Um, and I met some amazing people, even even people from my own, And, um, they were amazing and yeah, yeah, So there is, um Do you want to tell me a bit more about your experience there and why that was so, um oh, God, it was It was very important to me because as growing up, I didn't. And as a Maori person growing up [00:02:00] I, I didn't know that as a queer person as well, I had a place inside my own culture I had never heard about, you know, a gay Maori person. Other than that, what now, presenter? What's his name? Tea. Coffee. And I knew him for so long. But I just thought that he was the only person. He was the only Maori gay person I ever knew. And I was like, Wow, wow, what happened to him, like, what did they do? And yeah, and, [00:02:30] um, just the experience was amazing, because I got to meet so many people who had gone through the same exact thing and just everyone coming together and and yeah, just learning a bit more about my own culture as well and and myself and and identifying as Tau Now instead of just something else. What does that word mean to you? It means it means being Maori before queer is what I think, [00:03:00] you know. And then kind of presenting yourself as Maori and then, you know, on the side you're queer, you know, or just, um Yeah, that's kind of what it means to me. And just like the history of queer people within my culture and taking on that role and stuff like that. Is it important to you that there is that that history, though, and finding the hell Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely finding it was a or find going on that journey now is [00:03:30] one of the best experiences ever. And I feel so great within myself now and better than ever, to be honest. Yeah. How are you feeling before you kind of found that community and kind of learned about that? Oh, I kind of lost a because I never I was very I don't know what you kind of say, Like, I'm kind of whitewashed when I grew up. I didn't properly know that II. I knew that I was Maori and I knew that I was brown. But like [00:04:00] I didn't know No, you know, I was like, Oh, I can do all of these things and all of these, these kinds of stuff and and and not have, like, repercussions or whatever. I'm going off on a tangent. Um, I just No, I just didn't know that I was not that I had a culture that I could grasp and take and learn from. And now that I know that it's there for me, I'm willing to jump in and just grab it like, yeah, that's mine. Are there any like, particular ways [00:04:30] that you're like doing that? Like, um, I'm definitely keeping in contact with people from, um and yeah, going on with that and and stuff like that. And also, I met some people there who invited me to a Kapa Haka group called in Wellington. And, um, it's a Tai Kaha group. And I was very, very happy about that because actually growing up, I never did Kapa haa because I thought it was stupid. And, you know, I thought [00:05:00] everything about my culture was stupid. And now I just love it completely. And to I went there a couple of times and, um, yeah, I absolutely adore it, and I'm going back. What has it been like being like a trans man in the community? And have you had many kind of role models or many other, um, trans men or I have not met very many like, um, trans [00:05:30] men. But then within the community, Um, actually, it's really sad. I can't recall a person I've met. That's was I have heard of people, but I actually haven't met them yet. So hm. Do you feel like that's something that that kind of representation or knowing of other people like, Do you feel like that's, um, something missing, or would it be important to you to have, um, I feel like it would be important, But to be honest, for now, I am just happy [00:06:00] being around, uh, anyone, any people within the community that have stories to tell and you know, things to teach me. And that's I think that's enough for me. Yeah. Um, do you think maybe your like story and your journey could be kind of, um, awesome for other young um Maori men. Oh, I hope so. But I've got a I've got a few more stories to live myself before. Um, I think, uh, you know, they should [00:06:30] be told a bit a bit too young right now, but, um, yeah, no, that'd be awesome. What do you think about, um, the way? I guess we were represented in the media, but particularly, um mm. Maybe people that you might be able to relate to 00, God. Well, I can think colours orange is the new black right now. Um, [00:07:00] I think I think it's OK. I'm not saying it's good. It's not even average, but it's OK, but, you know, we start from here and we go further on, and that's just kind of how it goes. But I don't know. I can't really think of anyone that I could relate to on television or on any type of show right now, but that's OK. I watch shitty shows. [00:07:30] Um, yeah. No, it's OK. I hope that it does get better, to be honest, because that'd be great for people. I mean, I did hear about this new Glee trans character which everyone is very mad about. I believe it sounds like they got a little bit lazy, and that's kind of where it's just OK. It's It's OK. It's not good. It's not bad. It's also not average, but yeah, I'd want it to get better. What would you like to see? More of [00:08:00] just doing like characters and not, like, not like the normal kind of queer characters that you'd see like rich or middle class and being able to go through the entire world and still be a bit awesome. But, you know, the real type of queers. Do you know what I mean? Like people who who who suffer but also people who don't and people who have gone through a lot of shit and disabled [00:08:30] people just, you know, anything would be I'd love to see that I would love to see people like me. I'd love to see people like my friends, you know, And yeah, So you kind of talked about, um, like the community and that existing thing quite important for you, um is generally being part of some kind of queer community or as you were coming out. Was that quite important for you? It has always been important to me. Um, as soon as I as soon as [00:09:00] I was a young queer, and I found out that there was a place that I could go where it would be safe for me. And although it was scary to hear about it and be like, Oh, what if there's someone there that I know that could tell anyone? But that never happened. And as soon as I went into the space and it was amazing and everyone was absolutely nice, it's always been a part of my life, and it will always be a part of my life. I. I have to be a part of this community. Push myself in [00:09:30] like, yeah, this is It's it's it's the I think it's just the best part of my life so far as being a part of the community in Wellington. Yeah. So, um and how did you find that community? Or like, have you, um, has it been through, like, groups or events or online or friends, or do you mean how I got into it or something like that? Yeah, Well, I got into it through schools out, so [00:10:00] yeah, through schools, schools out and kind of just met people through there and kept on going and kept on going. And then everyone's just meeting everyone and going other places and going to and, you know, and and stuff like that and that's that's really how it started. It started the schools out. I actually know I did it. Oh, no, I'm wrong. No, no. I started at my first, Um my my schools Queer Group. If you could call it that, it was like two [00:10:30] people, and it only lasted about three months, but they had known about a place called Schools Out. And I had gone out of my way to go and find it. And so I did. I started off, actually at the lower hut schools out. And then they told me that there was one in Wellington and I was like, I'm out of here and I went and started going to Wellington, and then I would actually travel from Upper hut after school all the way into Wellington because I loved the people more in Wellington more [00:11:00] and I'll come in here and hang out and have some food and then go get a coffee and then just take a train back on home and Yeah, And how old were you when you were? Um Oh, I must have been 15. 15? No, I might have been younger. 14 Just turned 15, maybe. Yeah, something around that kind of area. Yeah. Um, so finding that community must have been quite helpful in terms of [00:11:30] your kind of, I guess figuring out your identity and Oh, hell, yeah, yeah. I mean, I. I mean, I started I started off with the quick community as someone completely different than who I am today. Um, and yeah, just as soon as I started meeting like trans people and and, um gender queer people and, um, and basically not binary people. Um, I just kept changing my identities, and I went all the way on down the track, and then we found the right one and [00:12:00] just got there. What was it, um, like for you figuring out and transitioning while at school and with your family? Uh, it was it was confusing. But the thing is, is that I kind of made it a bit easier for myself as I As soon as I found out that I was Trans, I was having a bit of a hard time and I was thinking I was in year 12 at school, and, uh so I left. I left and I went to a different high school in Wellington. I made a slide show [00:12:30] for my parents to make them so that I could go and, um, they it took them about a week to come around because I pushed it in their face. I was like, Let me go. I heard about Wellington High School and I was like, They're so amazing and everyone's awesome. And as soon as I got there, everyone was awesome. It was an amazing school, and that made it definitely easier because I went from identifying as a person in a stupid college in Al Hut, um, [00:13:00] to identifying as who I wanted to be And, um, once I was in high school. But that was the hardest year of my life, definitely for my parents, because not only was I learning somewhere else, I was, you know, completely changed. I changed my name on the role without telling them, and they found out, and I just remember this day where they found out and they my my father had come in to talk to the dean about changing it. And, [00:13:30] um, one of the, um, deputy principals. She was amazing. She was actually, uh, queer as well. And, um, she she was She told the dean and I heard from him that she was going to have a go at my father about changing my name. And that's just how amazing they were. They did. They did. They went out of their way to help me. And even though they had to change my name on the role because of my parents, um, because I was under 16 at the time. No, no, Sorry. I was under 18. [00:14:00] My bad. Um, I had to listen to them. They went out of their way to scrub out my name with a vivid my old name with a vivid and then put my actual name on for other teachers that would come in and and just when they would print up roles and you could take off your name and it was amazing of them. Were there other train students or like a queer community at the school? Yes, there was. Yes, There were a couple of other trans people which made it awesome. Um, both of them were well known, though, [00:14:30] Um, without the school, Um, I was not, but, um, it had come out during the year, and that was something that I didn't want, but it happened because stuff ups had come up on the rolls and stuff like that. But, um, I think I just got through it because people kind of were just like, why should we give a shit? But some people are like, Ha, ha. This is weird. And then, you know, it just hung around with people who, like, who gives a shit. [00:15:00] Yeah. So have you experienced much transphobia? Um, not that much. No, I can't say I have that much. I think the hardest thing is always coming out to people that you are dating and seeing their response. That's the scariest thing in the entire world. And especially since, um uh, II, I think at a point in the last year I tried [00:15:30] to I started dating people outside of the queer community. And, um, yeah, that was scariest thing in my entire life. I had to know that they had at least one queer friend, so that was OK But, um no, not not too much, really. Only from family members and and stuff like that. And the rest. I've always surrounded myself with people that I know will be amazing. Do you have any other? Any advice for other trans [00:16:00] people facing that dilemma of telling people that they're dating? So something comes up, you just need to snap and do it like don't don't do it. Don't ever do it face to face. I people might tell you that, but I have never, ever done it face to face, mostly because of violence issues. And, um, just, you know, you could get punched. No matter what sexuality you are, violence can happen and shutting. And, you know, it depends on [00:16:30] who the type of person you are. So I've always either called or messaged text message as the one I usually use, because then I don't have to hear the tone of voice. Um, but yeah, most mostly sometimes, if you you'll find that, um if they are within the queer community, then they usually most people are pretty cool with it. And, um, it's best just to see, like, track a person out. Do you know what I mean, like, just be like, what do you think of these types of people [00:17:00] Kind of thing. And that's what I usually did for. So that's that's my advice. What do you think are some of the most important, um, issues or things affecting, um, people in the Rainbow communities in New Zealand at the moment? What things would you like to change, or where do we still need to education for youth and public schools? That is what I want. That's something I've been thinking about lately. Um, would [00:17:30] be education? Well, I wouldn't say queer education, but kind of because all the kids get taught in school is, is is in sex, ed. I guess that's what they call it straight education about, you know, I want I want queer identities. And so kids can learn about these things because just because there might be one of them, you know you can you can still help them out. And that would be awesome. I mean, school out. School art does an amazing job of educating kids in public schools. Um, but it's just [00:18:00] sad that, uh, some schools can. They do have the right to say No. And they will. And I know of them doing a couple of schools, but I don't know too many. Yeah. Um, was there any mention of sexual or gender scandal? No, no, no. Absolutely nothing. I learned about condoms, and how to I didn't even know. No, no, we didn't learn how to have sex. [00:18:30] We learned about yeah, condoms and what you could get from sex. That's it. Fuck. Um, where would you like to say things go for the community? Oh, we had to go. I want it to grow. I want it to grow bigger. That's what I want. And [00:19:00] yeah, for the Because I know that there are very many little take within the Maori community that just don't know it yet and are being pushed aside. And, you know, are being told that this kind of stuff is wrong. And and I want education for them. I want I want safe spaces for them and yeah, that's what I want. And what about the trans community while we Oh, ok, more [00:19:30] safe spaces. Um, actually, so far, I think the best thing that came out was, um, Auckland University is funding name changes for Trans students at the university. And I thought that was awesome. And I was like, Why didn't you tell me this a year ago? Because I would have gone there and you could have paid for my name. Change could have saved $300 but, um, that's amazing. And I think I think really, what? What I want [00:20:00] as well within the trans community or just for Trans people is that I would like, uh, our surgery is not to be seen as cosmetic within New Zealand and to be funded like it's not that hard to save lives, you know? And, yeah, Do you want to say a little bit more about what the situation is like at the moment? Well, uh, most basically, the only way to get, [00:20:30] uh, top surgery or bottom surgery is you either have to come out and fund, go fund yourself or whatever and write an entire essay about who you are and why people should give you money. But that's coming out. Um, you need to either get a grant and those grants go. I think I believe once every two years to two people. Um, and that's only for one surgery, and or you can either take [00:21:00] out a medical loan or a loan from the bank and then be in debt for a very long time. Or you can just wait or you need to, or you've already got the money. So that's and and either way, it's it's still seen as cosmetic, and that's why you can't really fund it. And, uh, yeah, that's really the only way that you can get surgeries right now and it is pretty expensive. It is very, [00:21:30] very expensive. Yeah, yeah, its really inaccessible and kind of the government. Not really. Taking it seriously is like a thing for me. Like I would like that. That would be amazing. Um, what about, like, access to hormones and things like that? Do you think that's good, that my journey with hormones has actually been quite an easy one, Which was very [00:22:00] new to me. I have been on hormones for about seven months now, Uh, and I think all I basically did was I went to my doctor and told them that, uh, I wanted to start it, and they basically sent a letter to the endocrinologist in Wellington and they set up a interview with them five months down the track, Had an interview with them. They took a blood test, and then I was on shots in [00:22:30] a week. Um, what if you could give a message to, I guess, the younger You like a, um, friends. Um, what would it be? Oh, God. It it definitely would be. Stay strong because I think and And learn patience, because you will learn patience. I think over the past five, Well, 45 [00:23:00] years. I've learned so much patience. Like you, Your parents, they mean a lot to you, but, um, it's best just to give it time and time. Could be 10 years Time could be seven years time. Could be two. But, um, you will get through this and, um yeah. Snap. Yeah. Um, And what's your favourite [00:23:30] thing about, um my favourite thing about being queer is the people. If I wasn't queer, I wouldn't have met the most amazing people in the entire world, so yeah. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 2010s ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Ara Taiohi ; Beyond Rainbows (series) ; Glee (tv) ; God ; Hui Takatāpui ; Hui Takatāpui (2014) ; Job ; Lower Hutt ; Māori ; Orange Is the New Black (tv) ; People ; School's Out (Lower Hutt) ; School's Out (Wellington) ; Space ; Stuff ; Tabby Besley ; Tāmati Coffey ; Tīwhanawhana ; University of Auckland ; Upper Hutt ; Wellington ; Wellington High School ; Youth ; advice ; binary ; blood ; change ; class ; coffee ; coming out ; community ; condoms ; culture ; dating ; disability ; education ; email ; endocrinologist ; face ; family ; food ; friends ; fun ; funding ; gay ; gender ; gender identity ; government ; growing up ; hapu ; hell ; history ; hockey ; hope ; hormone blockers ; hormone replacement therapy (HRT) ; identity ; iwi ; journey ; letter ; love ; media ; middle class ; modeling ; name change ; non-binary ; normal ; other ; parents ; patience ; podcast ; queer ; quiz ; rainbows ; relationships ; representation ; sad ; school ; sex ; sex education ; sexuality ; spaces ; stereotypes ; straight ; suicide ; surgery ; takatāpui ; time ; tomboy ; top ; top surgery ; trans ; trans man ; transgender ; transphobia ; university ; violence ; voice ; whitewash ; youth. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/beyond_rainbows_nathaniel.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089631. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.