The title of this recording is "Missy - Beyond Rainbows". It is described as: Missy talks about identifying as non-binary and somewhere in between pansexuality and demisexuality. It was recorded in Wellington, Aotearoa New Zealand on the 30th November 2014. This is an interview with an unidentified interviewee (or possibly interviewees) conducted by Jo Jackson / Grizz. The name is spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 30 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: Missy talks about identifying as non-binary and somewhere in between pansexuality and demisexuality. The content in the recording covers the decades 1990s through to the 2010s. A brief summary of the recording is: In this interview, Missy shares personal experiences of being non-binary and navigating the spectrum between pansexuality and demisexuality over the decades from the 1990s to the 2010s. During the interview, Missy reflects on the differing perceptions and levels of awareness regarding gender and sexuality in the United States and New Zealand. In Southern California, where they previously resided, Missy felt that the understanding of transgender issues was more common but chose to identify as a lesbian for convenience, despite feeling more connected to pansexuality. In New Zealand, the concepts seemed less familiar to the general populace, despite legislative progressiveness evidenced by the presence of a transgender person in Parliament. Missy discusses involvement in the queer community both in California, through participation in the Gay-Straight Alliance during high school, and in New Zealand, where they note that the queer community can be difficult to penetrate without knowing the 'right' people. However, Missy highlights their active individual advocating role in educating others on a personal level about queer and non-binary experiences. Encounters with acceptance and resistance within various environments are also described. Missy talks about the reluctance to educate others but stresses the importance of representation and rejecting stereotypes in fostering a better understanding of the queer community. Work environments in both countries are compared; Missy shares the relative safety and acceptance in New Zealand contrasting with the litigious and less accommodating nature of the United States. Personal anecdotes reveal the nuances of coming out. Missy recounts experiences of coming out at school and to their parents, discussing both the humor and the challenges of these revelations. There's an acknowledgment that coming out can be a nuanced and repetitive process, especially when relocating to a new country. The concept of gatekeeping within the queer community is critiqued, pointing out how certain people are excluded or deemed 'not queer enough,' which Missy finds frustrating and invalidating. There’s an emphasis on fluidity and the legitimacy of shifting sexual and gender identities over time, encouraging individuals to embrace and express their evolving selves freely. Throughout the conversation, Missy touches on experiencing and handling homophobia, advocating for safe spaces, and offering heartfelt advice to queer youth navigating their identities. They urge members of the queer community to be kind and welcoming, and for the broader community to genuinely support young individuals coming out. The recording provides insight into the broader themes of identity, belonging, and community acceptance while addressing societal challenges and the transformative power of self-identification and representation. Missy's narrative underscores the importance of recognizing and respecting the diversity of experiences within the LGBTQ+ community. The full transcription of the recording begins:  Um, my name's Missy. Um, I'm some weird thing between sexualities, uh, somewhere between pan and Demi. Um, gender is a female by birth. Oh, God. Trying to explain this. I'm too tired for this bullshit. Um, female, but somewhere else, but very much non-binary if I was actually supposed to name a thing, Um, so those are obviously minorities the thing and that I don't think there's much more to be said. Cool. Um, also, uh, by your accent, I can tell you're American. Right. Um so how has been, like, fitting into these minorities? Been few different in America and New Zealand. Uh, in America, I very much identified as female. And I guess pansexual, by the time I was leaving, never really pressed it, Um, in such that it was just so much more convenient to say, lesbian, Um, because it's I figure it's not my job to educate the masses. Um uh, even though someone was to push, I would always I say pansexual. Um, whereas in New Zealand, So in the States, I was specifically in Southern California, which is definitely more on the liberal scale in the states. Um, it was never an issue so much as people just didn't know. So I just used a different label. Um, in New Zealand. Um, it's funny because I voluntarily surround myself with people who are quite queer. Um, you know, there are two I not even choose. They just who I tend to be gravitate gravitate towards. It's very interesting. I've started working in, um, hospitality in New Zealand. Well, I did both places, but and there's a lot of good people who are woefully ignorant. Um, and it's just very interesting to try and explain to them what the idea of like transgender is. Whereas in, uh, Southern California, it was just kind of like a thing. I remember my parents. We had a family friend who was transit or transitioning, and they were kind of like, This is what's going on. This is what's happening. Some people are like that, Um, whereas here it's still kind of people just don't know. Um so I'm inclined to say it's more progressive and only like because you guys have had a trans person in Parliament. Of course, the states can't say that, but at the same time, I think just general just seems to me general ignorance as a whole. Um, yeah. Were you very active in the queer community back in California? Um, in my high school, I was tingly involved in the, um GSAG alliance. And I think I was much more active on an individual level. I was the first to come out of my friend group. I had a lot of friends. Come talk to me. Um, and I be like, I think I'm I'm you know, I think I'm gay. Like sweet. Let's have this chat. Let's talk. Um, and I still very much like that. And, uh, here I've had a few conversations about how to have sex with the vagina to people who are within the queer, um, spectrum. Uh, so it's very just on a, uh, person to person level. Um, I remember some people after high school coming up to me and being like you, seeing you so open in your relationships in high school really kind of astounded me and gave me inspired me and other such quotation mark words. So which is not something I actively did, But it's something I thought worth note. What sorts of differences have you noticed? Um, in the communities, the Queer Communities in southern Cali, California and Wellington. It's hard because I was under 18 in the States and over 18 in New Zealand. And unfortunately, I think a large part of the community is in clubs and, you know, having a gay club and stuff like that or accessible for people who are of age. Um, you know, which makes it a bit difficult, Um, in regards to both, I find them very similar in that there always seems to be this queer community that's incredible, difficult to crack until you end. It becomes just a matter of knowing enough or knowing people. And then you suddenly realise you're part of the queer community and you're just Where did this come from? Um, it But no. Ultimately, I think it's kind of a clicky thing. Um, you just happen to find yourself in? How has the, um, the queer community, how accepting has the queer community been? I've never really. The pan thing is very interesting because people just write it off and it's like you're just you're just lesbian. You voted It wouldn't, um and I it's It's just frustrating to try and be like explain it. And I've coined this simple phrase. I don't care what's in your pants. Um, but, you know, and people kind of, um write it off and it's just mostly I've just given up on it. Um, and the non binary thing I have actually not or not really talk to anyone who doesn't themselves identifies that, Um, just because I don't look forward to that conversation of trying to explain that, Why not? Because people don't like things that aren't immediately accessible. Um, and it's funny because and then they you know, they sue masculine, since I'm because I tend to dress more masculine dress and things of that sort. So whenever I dress feminine, they'll be like, But what about what you were saying before and since it's they like to pigeon hole you and mostly I just had to say, Fuck y'all and walk away. Um, yeah, so is it Accepting depends on who it is. Um, I think most people a lot of them just kind of don't give a fuck. It's I. I personally don't have the problem with people being gatekeeper, you know, being you're not queer enough for something like that because I've been in homosexual relationships. Still not even sure on the terms because of things and stuff. But, um so that's something I've seen people do that It's very interesting, You know, they'll be like I'm by, They're like, but you've only been heterosexual relationship. So how do you know? Um, this is so tangential. Um, point being I know the problem with gatekeeping. I know it exists. I've seen people do it. I'm so glad that I don't have to deal with it because it's so fucking invalidating. You know, this thing that you feel a part of and people saying Na na na na na um, it's bullshit is is a legitimate real problem. Um, and it's funny because the non binary thing is classified under the Trans label. But I, I don't feel I feel like I It's very I'm invalidating their existence by classifying myself trans because, you know, it's kind of I feel they're you know, the people get they're fucking killed. What is the statistics? You know, one in 18 queer youth is killed where it's like one in 12 or one in eight. Trans youth is killed or something of that sort. Whereas I don't you know I don't face any of the hardship they do because it's not something that is so obvious? Um and yeah, so there's kind of that I I don't wanna say it's life inclusiveness. I just think that there should be a better term for things. Um, because it's like either your sister or your Trans and clearly there's a little there's Grey area. Um, it's a spectrum. Love that phrase and then you get it. But people would complain about, but you're adding things onto the acronym like guys. It's clearly things more important than acronym. Um, what was the coming out process like for you? Um, it came out on October 11th, 2000 and nine, 2008. I wanna say, um, it's coming out day in the States. It was my first year of high school. I went to the GS a because I'm like I am a ally. I knew I wasn't really an ally. Um, and I knew that was great as fuck, and I remember there. So Santa Barbara is very white and very, um, Latino, but there's not a huge black community. And there was this one. He was a cheerleader. He was a black cheerleader, and he was so gay. And it was just basically, every minority was shoved in his face. Effeminate gay black man and just God, God love him. Um, and they were Everyone was making stickers for coming out today. I'm like, what is this shit? And he made me one that said, I'm by. Will you marry me? And I wore that around school on October 11th, and people thought it was a joke. They seriously just thought it was a joke. Um, which I think is hilarious. I'm like, No, no, Like, I'm I'm actually very serious. And I had that sticker in the front of my binder for all four years of high school. Um, so that's how I came out to public at large. Of course, I didn't come out to my parents before or immediately after, because fuck, that's scary. Even in liberal California, Um, it's not that I knew they wouldn't be accepting, uh, my sister's gay, so she did a lot of the more difficult dealing with bullshit. Um, I just It was just stigmatised. It was like it's something bad's going to happen. Um, it wasn't until my second girlfriend that I actually came out. Um, I remember. I told my my parents a divorce. I remember. I told my dad, um as we drove to school, we had stopped to grab a coffee before and he was taking his first sip. Like dad. I have a girlfriend. He was choked. He was pulling onto the street. That was not the best time. Um, considering you basically almost crashed the car. Um, And you immediately guess who it was it like. Is it Shannon? Yes. Um, and he's very awkward and bumbling. He's just like, you know, he was very positive about it, and it was just kind of awkward because we're not a big sherry family, but he was very accepting of it. Didn't give no fucks lack of a better phrase. Um, coming up to my mom. I. I think I said the same thing. I have a girlfriend. No, I wasn't labelling myself in either situation. Um, and then she was like, As if I care and then talk about herself for the next 10 minutes because she's kind of like that. I mean, because she's self absorbed like that. Um uh, but Yeah, it's funny. My dad always still called me. Well, Missy's gay missy's a lesbian. I'm like Dad. Bye bye. But, you know, it's one of those accepting but limited viewpoint of the world. Um, and it's when I came to New Zealand, I got so used to everyone knowing I'm gay, like I look very gay. Um, and it was so weird to have to come out again. It felt like taking a huge step back. You know, it's like something I'm like, I did it. I did it, you know, it's like fucking, um, a coming of age story of And then I was just doing it all over again. I was like, Is this bullshit? I don't remember. Specifically, I remember coming out to my roommate, flatmate roommate. She was the first person we sitting in the room together. We're having conversation somehow. I came. I was like, Yeah, I I'm I'm pansexual and just got quiet. And she's like, So what does that mean? I love it a bit. Um, I think I was one of the first really open, very out people she ever met at her age. Um, yeah. So it's so funny. The idea. Tell me you're coming out story. There's always, you know, 10 billion of them. That's an end. Sounds like, um, some pretty positive responses that you got. Yeah, um, home life around school and high school around uni and my personal life at work. Actually, my work is a very, very gay place. Um, so I've been very lucky in that. People are very accepting of that. Have you ever had any negative responses? No. Generally, because either a, I wouldn't tell them or B. They just They're not someone I would invite into my life, General, if that's the kind of person either. You know, I if I think they would react negatively to it, then they're not the kind of person I would associate with. There's a few people who were religious, so we had conversations about it. Um, I had one. I have one very good Christian friend. You know, I came out to her and you could tell that it was a little bit harder for her to, um understand. It was mostly kind of. So why are you telling me? Um, you can tell. She kind of thought like, that's your private thought like private life. Why are you putting it out there? But, um, we were also 14 15 at the time. I don't think she give no fucks out, but there's a few friends who are it? It's I'm I've come out and, you know, they're very much you can tell it's not their personal. I think one person I never came out to was, um my ex's mom. She was like an adoptive mom or a surrogate mom to me. Basically, never came out to her. Kind of always felt really guilty about that. I honestly never knew how she would react. So I really don't think she was accepting at all, which is just so cutting because she was so important for like, my last 23 years of high school, I always felt like I was lying to her. Didn't help that I was also dating her daughter, and I felt like I was lying to her about that as well. Um, um, have you ever experienced any more generalised homophobia than that? You mean like the other day when I was walking arm in arm with the girl I'm dating? There is these two guys, obviously somewhat drunk from Courtney Place. Be like, Hey, we know what you want. Do you want a big cock? We're like, What? What was that accent? Um, anything. Um it was like, Yes, yes. We want a giant cock inside of us. Please, please, men give us more of us. Um, so yeah, and he's always kind of Luckily, we were walking by actually S and M one of the gay things, and she knows the bouncer there, and she kind of had a a pointed eyebrow or look towards the guy, and he kind of stopped them. You know, it's always kind of like you don't know if they're just gonna be assholes and yell at you or if you know, they're gonna try to fucking sock you right in the fucking face. Um, you know, you you know, you can either try and yell back at them, but that's when. Has that ever helped anything? Really? Um, you just kind of keep your head down, laugh to yourselves, be like, Oh, this is hilarious and not really let it be anything more. Um, yeah. I definitely don't feel safe here than I did in Santa Barbara. Um, with regards to homophobia specifically. Yeah. Yeah. Um, like, walking hand in hand. The girl you mentioned before working in hospitality. Um, and that, uh you, uh you work in quite a queer workplace. Have you experienced any homophobia at work? Um, no, no, not from any. Not for many workmates. I think there is the odd kind of Oh, you're a lesbian. You don't, um you're like your opinion on it attracted Male doesn't matter or something like that. So it's kind of the very narrow point about, like, nothing that was aggressive or, you know, it's mostly people just being idiots. There was nothing ever anything aggressive. I never felt like my job was threatened. Um, I never felt like I couldn't talk about who I was dating, or you know, um, one of the ones I talk to the most It's very interesting because I talk to him frequently about my shitty, shitty love life. Um, and he's very accepting and wonderful to talk about and, you know, give point of views, and then he'll say something like, I just want you to know what a Penis feels like, So you can, you know, actually know, like, decide if you're gay or not like where you are. I'm just like, Ah, there's so many levels of wrong with what you just said. Um, what about from patrons? Uh, when I work I, I No, I've never They never comments or anything on it, mostly because I look hyper feminine when I work nine times out of 10. Um, it's something I purposely don't bring up. I really didn't bring it up in the States because it's it can be such an issue there. And I would never talk about it with customers. Why do you think it's different in New Zealand? And, um, those states, because you guys can't sue? Um, you guys don't have yelp. You guys don't have. I'll talk to your manager about the some fear for your job. Um, in the States, you know, bring it up and the customers angry. Fucking dealing with angry customers is one of the worst things ever because you think it's safer to be out in the work place in New Zealand depending on who your boss is? Um, yeah, because if a customer here raise a stink about it and my boss would just tell him to get out they were in the States, they would try and accommodate the customer. Who is the place? I worked Definitely one, maybe two of the places I worked. They would just be like, you know, it would be like, Miss, you go do something else. Um, and they would deal with the customer, you know, they wouldn't be happy, but it's a different. It's a very different mentality in the state's hospitality. If you could give a message to, uh, youth who are queer coming out, um, figuring out their identity and similar situations to where where you were, What would you say? Um, labels aren't inherently bad because they help you figure things out. Um, is that something that you struggled with? Um, yeah, it took me forever to even call myself. Bye. I was like, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And it's kind of when I was like, I don't know what this is. And I was always going between bye. And I was I tried to figure that out, Um, but never really tried to put words to it because I didn't want to, and it's kind of putting a name to something um, sense gives a sense of validation. Like it's a real thing. It exists. I'm not nothing. Especially more now with, um, uh, definitely gender identity. Because there's been times I've wondered in my trends. Um, you know, I never really felt right. And then, you know, something like when I found out about non binary gender queer and anything of that Sort of like that definitely fits. Because I'm not I'm not. I don't fit into what is female, and that's never felt right for me. But nor does a man. Doesn't feel right either. Um and so finding those words really gave a sense of, um, validation and, uh, a way to explain things. But in saying that, um, and saying that that labels aren't evil. Um, it's you. You can change just because you're five. When you're five, you like red. And now that you're 15, you like something else. Doesn't mean you didn't like red when you were five. Doesn't mean you have to continue liking red for the rest of your life. You know you can change. Doesn't invalidate what you were. Won't change who you are. You're still figuring shit out. Um, don't prevent yourself from figuring anything out? Um, Yep. It's not wrong to give yourself a name. And you don't have to stick to what you call yourself. You can always change it. How do you think that the, um, the less diverse gay community is, um, accepting of those ideas of fluid sexuality? Um, it's fucking frustrating because it's like the Americans coming to to or the English coming to the Americas to escape persecution only to kill and persecute everyone else. Um, it creates a hierarchy. It creates a gated, like gated social structure. Um, it it's this idea, you know? And it gives, like, media and stuff. This idea of we gave you a gay, white, straight or gay white man. Isn't that enough? And then when people ask for more and different representation, they get really pissy about it. Um, and yet you know the people who are heard most the people who are given, um, the greatest voice I white gay men, Um, kind of just like, you know, it's fine, you know, it's it's all good. Um, and it's just and it's very frustrating because it's it just continued narrow mindedness about something. It was like hitting a basic, like a basic level of acceptance and then just stopping If you could give a similar message to the people that surrounded you at that time, Um, so to the more generalised mainstream community, um, about how to help coming out in queer youth, what would you say? Fucking let them talk? Um, be excited for them. And some people tell these stories of, you know, they came out and their parents are just like, sure, whatever. Um, and they really like that. But I always kind of thought taking that extra moment to be like We still love you, We still accept you. We're not writing it off. It's nothing because it takes so much courage to come out it, you know, it's it's something you obsessively think over. You know, you think this is the thing I need to do. I'm the thing I is expected of me. I'm not valid in the community unless I do this. Um, and then I do get that response. I just That's cool and moving on. I just kind of think, you know, it's something that's emotionally exhausting. At least at this time and age. I hope for the day where people can be like I'm dating a dude. I'm dating a girl. I'm dating someone who's neither. Um, and we was like, That's cool. Wonderful. That'd be excellent. But we're not there. It's still stigmatised. People are still killed for this. Um, so taking that moment of saying we still love you, we're still here for you. You can always talk to us so important. You talked about, um, the age where you can say you're dating someone regardless of their gender. Or, um, when do you think that age will be Do you think it will happen? It depends on the country. Depends on where you are. Um, it depends on the family. I don't know. I think it's happening to varying degrees. I have no idea kind of expect the world to end before I expect that to come. Um, what can we do to help, um, encourage the advent of the age? I think educating as much as I was like, it's not my job to educate people, um, representation and educating, knowing that these are options knowing that these things exist that people are this way, that these are real things. These are real people and then getting rid of like, um, a lot of stereotypes of lesbians. I have short hair and our super butch, which I feel like is more or less dying down to some degree. I mean, you still have fit me and visibility totally a thing, but it's got It's I don't think the super butch stereotype is nearly as bad as it was in the nineties. Um, because I remember the nineties, Um, so, you know, just getting rid of the idea of certain people only certain people are attracted or are on the spectrum. Um, that anyone can they're everywhere is basically what I'm trying to say. Um and then so getting rid of stereotypes, having representation, knowing these things exist. Um, so people don't have preconceived notions and don't find the need or entitlement to preconceived notions. Um, are you talking about representation in the media just everywhere you know? And it's people call representation in the media like that's the and they all get into politics, get into science, get into everything. Um, it's let me like the media force feeds us images, but having a black president is so important to so many people in the states and across the world. Um, the beauty is not the only thing that he represents, like is only not the only place to have representation. So I previously asked you what you would say to the more mainstream community. Um, this time, what would you say to the specific queer community and what they can do to make make their communities a safer space for people coming out with minority identities? I feel like this is really obvious. Don't be. Don't be a dick. Um, why? Why? Why is Dick and C maybe two words I thought about, um, one of my favourite quotes. Everyone is fighting a hard battle. Be kind. Um, even if you don't understand it, because that's, you know, fine. Whatever people introduce new ideas, things of that sort. Just because you personally can't relate to it it doesn't. Doesn't mean you have to be an asshole. Um, talk to them, like understand. Be accepting. Be accepting, be accepting. You don't need to understand to be accepting. It'd be great if you did. Please don't not try to be under or understanding, but instead of you know, people's immediate responses to be attacking or invalidating. You don't know what you're talking about. What? What is this thing not saying, really trying to be a special snowflake. Things of that sort if they don't understand something, and that's just so unnecessary. Listen to people listen, when they say something that you don't understand, go do research. Um, things don't occur in a vacuum. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 1990s ; 2010s ; Aotearoa New Zealand ; Ara Taiohi ; Barack Obama ; Beyond Rainbows (series) ; California ; Christianity ; Coming Up ; Gay Straight Alliance ; Gay Straight Alliance (GSA) ; God ; Jo Jackson / Grizz ; Job ; People ; Santa Barbara ; Scotty and Mal's Cocktail Bar ; Space ; Stuff ; United States of America ; Wellington ; Yelp ; Youth ; acceptance ; advice ; beauty ; binary ; bisexual ; board ; bouncer ; butch ; change ; clubs ; coffee ; coming of age ; coming out ; community ; conversation ; courage ; dating ; demisexual ; disability ; divorce ; employment ; entitlement ; escape ; face ; family ; fear ; femme ; fluidity ; friends ; fun ; gay ; gender ; gender identity ; hair ; heterosexual ; homophobia ; homosexual ; hope ; hospitality ; identity ; individual ; invisibility ; labels ; laughter ; lesbian ; love ; lover ; mainstream ; masculine ; media ; minority ; nightclub ; non-binary ; other ; pansexual ; pants ; parents ; persecution ; podcast ; policy ; politics ; queer ; queer spectrum ; queer straight alliance (QSA) ; rainbows ; relationships ; representation ; research ; safe space ; school ; sex ; sexuality ; siblings ; snowflake ; so gay ; social ; spectrum ; statistics ; stereotypes ; stickers ; stigma ; straight ; structure ; time ; trans ; transgender ; transition ; understanding ; university ; validation ; voice ; walking ; work ; writing ; youth. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/beyond_rainbows_missy.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089623. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.