The title of this recording is "Vaitoa Toelupe". It was recorded in Wellington Town Hall, 101 Wakefield Street, Wellington on the 18th March 2011. Vaitoa Toelupe is being interviewed by Gareth Watkins.  Their names are spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 11 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Vaitoa Toelupe from Samoa talks about attending the human rights conference. A brief summary of the recording is: In an 11-minute podcast recorded at Wellington Town Hall on March 18, 2011, Vaitoa Toelupe from Samoa discussed their participation in a human rights conference. The conference was attended due to the support of the Kingdom of Netherlands, with the aim of ensuring the Pacific region was represented and its voice heard. Toelupe highlighted three main messages from the conference. Firstly, there was the challenge to the genuine inclusion of the Pacific in discussions that often blanket the region under the 'Asia Pacific' term, demanding specificity where Pacific representation is concerned. Secondly, they stressed the importance of cultural context when discussing LGBTI terminology. While respectful of the terminology, Toelupe emphasized the need for terms that reflect the cultural identity and practices within Samoa to maintain national and global awareness of human rights activism that is relatable to their governments. Lastly, Toelupe expressed satisfaction with the representation and statements made by Pacific Islanders at the conference. Toelupe elaborated on the cultural distinction in Samoa where transgender individuals are recognized primarily through their cultural identity within society, rather than their sexual identity. This cultural importance underpins a level of tolerance and acceptance that Toelupe did not want to compromise by introducing sexual identity labels that could conflict with Samoan traditions. Discussing the status of rights in Samoa, Toelupe mentioned governmental actions such as the review of Samoa's position on the Declaration of Human Rights. The country has ratified international agreements like the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women and the Rights of the Child, indicating an ongoing commitment to human rights advocacy. From the conference, Toelupe intended to take back lessons on Samoa's role in the international human rights arena. The focus was on finding common ground with other activists and organizations, including those from the LGBTI community, to foster collective progress without compromising cultural identities. Regarding gays and lesbians in Samoa, Toelupe talked about the cultural status of lesbians, who, by dint of being women, have a significant place and recognition in society. There was recognition of the existence of gays, but questions remained about open acknowledgment due to prevailing conservative attitudes that favor family privacy. Under this cultural context, major movements for recognition beyond current levels were not evident as there wasn't a pressing need perceived by the community. Returning from the conference, Toelupe expressed determination to continue advocating for improved living standards, economic and social opportunities, and participation in the human rights movement for all, including LGBT individuals willing to identify themselves as such. In terms of opposition to expanding rights, Toelupe mentioned potential challenges due to foundational Christian beliefs in Samoan law where certain sexual acts are taboo. However, efforts to navigate these challenges centered on education and understanding to reach solutions that consider both legal and cultural perspectives. The timeframe for legislative changes in Parliament was uncertain, with expectations for progress within the year, recognizing it as a crucial period for human rights advancements in Samoa. The full transcription of the recording begins:  I am from Samoa. I'm here to represent the association. And what brought us to this conference is, um, um the kind to, um, support and Grant and and Donorship of the Netherlands Kingdom of Netherlands so that we have a representation from the Pacific in this in this gathering and so that our Pacific voice is heard. And that's why we came. And secondly, to to be part of this event to be part of this event. What were the main messages that you wanted to bring to this conference? We have a clear, uh, we have a clear, um, set of statements that we wanted to make known. Um, we were fortunate that three Pacific Islanders were able to present keynote speeches. Carl and she Brown today and myself yesterday. And our three main message was one. There's been a lot of reference to Asia Pacific. We we we wanted to challenge how genuine the inclusion of Pacific is, and then it's an issue of representation and that if it is pa and if it's not Pacific, then be specific. You know, Where do we place, Uh, where do they place us? Secondly, it was to really, um emphasise, um, the reference to terminology. The reference to to to a, um the reference to LGBT, especially LGBTI. We respect LGBTI, but we also ask that we are respected in terms of our cultural identity, cultural references and what is applicable in our context. Back home it is. It's necessary because we identify with it. Our governments identify with it and for our national and global awareness of human rights activism for our governments to participate and actually take part, they have to be made aware they have to be informed in our context. And those were basically the 32 main main points of what we wanted to to to be heard here. And I think we did a good job of it. Can you explain a wee bit more about the idea about the terms LGBTI and how that doesn't fit into a specific context? The L GB LGBTI Thank you terminology. We believe in our in our our understanding is a medical, um, medical, um, models of definition or medical terms, you know, especially with transsexuals. Transgender, for it's a cultural identity. And that's the vast separation we identified culturally in our place in society and where we place in in our culture before our sexuality and the level of tolerance back home. Because of that fact, it's a cultural identity is something we don't want to jeopardise when the sexual identity is brought in. That's the difference. What is the state of, uh, rights in Samoa at the moment? Um, the government of Samoa has recently reviewed our position in the Declaration of Human Rights and we are like every other country, uh, have attempted and is still in the progress in the in the in the road of of advocating for Human Rights and more ratified the Convention of Elimination of Discrimination against Women CEO. And that work is continuous. Its implementation has been happening since the nineties and the convention the rights of a child CRC that was ratified in 92 and its implementation implementation is also, uh, full full on in terms of advocating and and our recent elected government is the Human Rights Party. What are some of the the big things that you will take away from this conference? One of the the most important things that we we will take away in this conference is that one we are glad to have made a statement and that we are heard two is that we have a responsibility to really go back home and see where we place ourselves in a global in a in an international arena in in the global picture, and that we need to come to terms of how we can work with LGBTI with Internet with with or organisation like Asia Pacific to make it work because it's the only way we can move forward together. We don't want to be a separate, um, set of activists. It's the same, it's the same. But we just need to find our common ground and see where we work together better and that's that's That's one of the main things that we want to learn and this is a start. This is our first time to be in a human rights conference that that has to be acknowledged, and because of that, we now know where we can move to, you know, for the next step, can can you identify any, uh, similarities or differences that you've picked up from from peoples around the world? There's a lot of similarities, I think, because of the labels there's their separation. I think the only thing that we are intrigued with especially, is the the like again. Again, I mentioned the medical, uh, reference like to trans transsexuals. Um, the that is very foreign to us, and we were intrigued by it. But we believe that is a, uh we are living examples of unconditional love. So are gays and lesbians. So are transsexuals. So other transgenders that we have met in this place and we all fight for the same purpose. It's just simply to achieve that simple purpose of giving love and receiving the same amount of love and respect back. It's that simple and that we all have. Can you talk a wee bit about? Um um are the gays and lesbians in Samoa and and how do they fit in? Of course. I mean Samoa Island, with only 100 and 80,000 people, we've been colonised the in we just as much as we are trying to challenge and compact the adverse impacts of climate change, So are we with globalisation and that we won't deny that there's gays and lesbians in time, But the question is, or or men having sex with men. But the question is, will they own up to that? Ah, but the situation back home is not to painted like a gay heaven that it's it's all you know, um, out in the open there is no cultural place. There's no cultural identity for for gay because it's a sexual orientation or sexual identity and lesbians. That's the only difference with with there is a place in society. Um, they have a designation of where they stand because they are born to families and born to to to to within the community. But gays are there. It does exist. It does exist. Our people travel. Our people have migrated, immigrated and migrated and come back with different lifestyles and influences. And it does exist for them. How What are the rights like in Samoa for for gays and lesbians? Well, for lesbians in my paper when I presented because of the cultural status of of lesbians in terms of they are women and because of our women, we they hold us a highest level of of recognition and status. The last one is just, I think, I I hate to be I maybe don't the listens back home are very conservative because there's nothing to fight for. You know they are comfortable that the the the the world revolves around their family taking care of their Children. If they do have Children, most lesbians live together, and it's a norm because it's they're not. And the argument is it's to let sleeping dogs lie. If it's not broken, don't fix it. The the the tolerance is there, the acceptance is there with there, and there's nothing to there. There hasn't been an extreme movement to to for recognition beyond that because they are already recognised. So from this conference do do you have any ideas about what you're going to do when you get back to Samoa? Yes, since the beginning of the summer Association, we have had our strategic plan implementation plan of activities that we need to engage ourselves in. What we have gained from this conference are bit ideas of how to further advocate for that and implement that. But it's the same issues, you know. It's the same human rights issues. It's the same, um, proposed actions and plans that we have in place for years. It's taking it to the next level and that's what we propose to do when we get we get back home is to continue to advocate, for, to have a better living standard, to have economic and social, um, opportunities to grow for social mobility, to employment, um, for for for and in general to build their capacity. And we will also open our doors to people, um, people who may identify themselves as LGBT in Samo if they own up to it or when they want to own up to it. To be part of this movement and and to be part of of making a difference because majority of the moment is to make a difference to ourselves. Our an acceptance our movement is to make a difference for everyone, and that's our driving force. It's not just to because everyone already has an understanding of tolerance and a place, but it's a movement to make a difference. To improve the human rights and standards of men, women, Children and boys and girls and everyone. Is there any opposition to getting more rights or or expanding rights? There will be opposition. We have recently submitted our to the Law Commission, the Law Reform Commission, and we're waiting cabinet to see, um, it has made it to Cabinet for a decision, especially with the laws of, um, sodomy and homosexuality as being illegal and the impersonation of women. And but these laws were direct cut and paste of of of the Colonial times, and that the opposition we see through the homosexuality act is because they are more one of its founding principles is Christianity. So that's that. That would definitely be an opposition. But before, like just as much as is our cultural identity and sexuality is next is, um, um is secondary. So we would be so will also be the approach with our position. They will oppose to the fact of legalising a sexual act that that is taboo in our culture. But there will also be a consideration to the fact that it will affect people of the community such as us, so there will always be a position. There will always be opposition, but you know, that's that's That's why we we we work to to gain recognition and and really understanding and education and awareness so that people know that there's a way around it, or that there's, uh, always a second of, um, two sides to a story in how we handle, you know people and how we handle our communities and how we can move forward together. Is there a time frame for those changes to go through Parliament? Our government has recently just have faced elections, so there will be a delay. But there is a time frame and we hope it will. A result will come out as soon as possible within this year. So this is a big year for some of our F association, and we look forward to the to the outcome and where to from there. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: Asia Pacific Outgames (2011) ; China ; Christianity ; Job ; LGBT ; Netherlands ; Pacific ; People ; Samoa ; Vaitoa Toelupe ; Wellington ; Wellington Town Hall ; acceptance ; actions ; activism ; activities ; advocate ; broken ; change ; children ; climate change ; community ; conference ; conservative ; culture ; data ; declaration ; difference ; discrimination ; education ; employment ; fa'afafine ; family ; finances ; fitness ; gay ; government ; hope ; human rights ; identity ; inclusion ; internet ; labels ; law ; love ; march ; mobility ; other ; plan ; power ; recognition ; representation ; respect ; separation ; sex ; sexual identity ; sexual orientation ; sexuality ; social ; sodomy ; support ; time ; tolerance ; transgender ; travel ; twins ; unconditional love ; understanding ; women ; work. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/apog_vaitoa_toelupe.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089493. Vaitoa Toelupe also features audibly in the following recordings: "Vaitoa Toelupe - AsiaPacific Outgames". Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.