The title of this recording is "Moana Parsons". It was recorded in Wellington Town Hall, 101 Wakefield Street, Wellington on the 16th March 2011. Moana Parsons is being interviewed by Gareth Watkins.  Their names are spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 13 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Moana Parsons from New Zealand talks about being a police diversity liaison officer. The content in the recording covers the 2010s decade. A brief summary of the recording is: In the podcast recorded on March 16, 2011, at Wellington Town Hall, Moana Parsons shared their experience as a police diversity liaison officer in New Zealand. The recording captures their journey to joining the police force at 23 years old, driven by a strong, life-long ambition to do so. Despite facing inappropriate questions during recruitment about their commitment to service due to potential pregnancy and sexual orientation, Moana remained steadfast in their goal to pursue their childhood dream. Moana's early days in the police force were marked by an imbalance between male and female officers, which shaped the organization's culture and presented challenges for women to work as they desired. Nevertheless, Moana saw progress over the years, particularly in the representation of women in the police force, rising to the rank of sergeant with a more gender-balanced team. Addressing the visibility of LGBTQ+ personnel within the force, Moana indicated that while there were openly gay officers, the environment appeared more accepting for lesbian women than for gay men. Moana suggested that the male-dominated nature of policing and societal homophobia made it tougher for gay men to be open about their sexuality within the organization. Homophobia within the police force, according to Moana, was still present in the form of derogatory language and banter, common across broader society. As a diversity liaison officer (DLO), one of Moana's responsibilities was to challenge such behaviors, though they acknowledged the limitation of being just one person within a larger culture. Moana provided insight into the complex dynamic of carrying out police duties in places significant to the LGBTQ+ community, like beats, where public sex may occur. Educating colleagues on handling those situations sensitively to avoid exacerbating prejudices and engaging in discriminatory practices was a role Moana found important. Explaining the nature of their role, Moana outlined the DLO's purpose: to serve as a safe contact within the police for LGBTQ+ community members needing assistance and to provide diversity training within the force. These educational efforts aimed to promote better understanding and inclusivity for LGBTQ+ issues among police personnel. Moana described this part of their work as a positive aspect of their career, providing a meaningful impact for their community. Despite their successes, Moana hoped for a future where positions like theirs would not be necessary, where awareness and acceptance of diversity were ingrained in all officers. They envisioned that in 30 years, their legacy would be reflected in an evolved police force where LGBTQ+ concerns were inherently understood and accommodated. The full transcription of the recording follows.  It includes timestamps every thirty seconds in the format [HH:MM:SS].  The transcription begins:  Uh, my name's MOINA. Parsons and I joined the police at the age of 23 because it was my childhood ambition to join the police. Um, I. I can't remember when I first decided I was going to be a police officer, but it was just always there, Uh, and I guess because it is what I wanted, I made it happen. Yeah, So I was a university student in Dunedin at the time, and I was just finishing off my degree. Uh, and I had [00:00:30] started the application process, and I went for my first interview with the recruitment officer down in Dunedin at the time. And this was back in 1998. So 12 years ago, uh, and we sat down to have our interview and, uh, the interview was proceeding, OK? And then after a few minutes, he said to me that he just wanted to check that I was joining the police for the right reasons. Uh, because, um, a woman had a habit of joining the police and then within two years, getting pregnant and then leaving. [00:01:00] Uh, and I was quite gobsmacked that he'd even suggested that to me and I you know, it hadn't even occurred to me that I might get pregnant or that that might be an issue. Uh, and I didn't really have a reply from that. Other than assuring him that I had no intentions of getting pregnant anytime in the near future. Uh, and so then the interview progressed on from there, and within a couple of minutes, he looked down at his paper and said to me, Oh, I see that you've listed your partner as female. Uh, and again it hadn't [00:01:30] Can you know, it hadn't crossed my mind to to be anything but out when I went into the, um, interview process. Uh, because I was out in my own life and at university, and, you know, it hadn't It hadn't been a problem. And it hadn't occurred to me that there might be an issue within the organisation. Uh, and and he said again, I need to just check that the you know, that you're joining the organisation for the right reasons. And I looked at him sort of quizzically, and, uh, and he said, you know, because some people have a habit of, um, you know, they [00:02:00] they join to push their own bandwagon. And, um, you know, again, I didn't have a response for that, Uh, other than assuring him that I had joined because I wanted to be a police officer. I. I had wanted to be a police officer since before I even knew that I was a lesbian. And that's why I was joining because I wanted to be part of the organisation and nothing to do with my own sexual preference or identities. And with the training, did you find there was any discrimination, or did you feel [00:02:30] there were situations where it was different because you were a lesbian? No. Uh, when I got to the police college, there were, uh, 80 in my wing. There were 14 women and four of us were out lesbians. Uh, so I was in good company, and I felt really supported throughout that process. Um, whether that's been the same experience for everyone, I don't know. But, um, I certainly, um, never came up against any discrimination because of my sexual orientation. What about in terms of women in the police force? And I'm just wondering, How do the genders [00:03:00] relate? And how does that relate to sexuality as well. Yeah, it it It's an interesting and topical question. I know there's been a lot. Uh, you know, there was, um, uh, a report put out recently sort of talking about women and the police and how the organisation perhaps hasn't advanced as as quickly as it could have. Um, and the the police is a male dominated occupation, and women are the minority. Um, when I joined the police, when I first started working on the street, I was the only female on my section. And it was three years before I got [00:03:30] to work with another woman. Um, and and I think they can't help but be differences because of the imbalance between men and in physical numbers between men and women. Um, the the the whole sort of structure and thought processes that go on day to day work is dominated by male thoughts and and male interactions. And therefore, you know, I think it it is harder for women to be able to sort of stand up and and to do the job, they to do the job they want [00:04:00] to do, and in the way that they want to do it, which is often quite different from the way that men do things because men and women are inherently different creatures. Um, so, yeah, I. I think there's still a long way to go, but there has been a lot of changes. For example, now, on section I'm a I'm a female sergeant. I have, um, seven constables on group and two of those are female. So on on a group of seven, there are three women. So that's that's come a long way from from my early days when I was the only woman. [00:04:30] What about in relation to gay men being in the police force? Are there openly gay officers? There are openly gay officers and sadly, not as many openly gay male officers as openly gay women. Uh, officers. And, uh, I feel that it's easier to be a gay woman in the organisation than it is to be a gay man. And again, I think it's because it is, uh, it is a male dominated, um, organisation, and traditionally it's been seen as [00:05:00] a heterosexual male occupation. Um, you know, for all the legal reasons, Um, but obviously, since the the changes since the, um human, um, the changes to the human rights amendment. Act around. Um uh, law, uh, employment law. Uh, so you you know, you can't be sacked for being a gay male anymore. Um, the opportunities are easier for men now than they were then. But there's still a long way to go. And it is easier for women than men. And I think because, [00:05:30] um well, you know, lesbians aren't seen as a threat to the to masculinity and and to the men within the organisation. And we're accepted as one of the boys, um, far more easily. And, um whereas gay men are still in, you know, and I guess it's an inherent homophobia that goes across our society, not just within the police organisation. Um, you know, gay males are often seen as a threat to the masculinity, and therefore it is harder for them to to come out and to be openly gay [00:06:00] at work. Do you have any examples of homophobia in the police? The I think there is still a lot of, uh, homophobic banter that that is is again, uh, sadly, part of our culture as a whole. That it's so gay. The the frequent use of the the, you know, derogatory, um, homophobic comments figure. Um, and I do hear those in the workplace and, you know, as a gay female and as AD LO I make it my job to [00:06:30] challenge those. Um, it's time, place and circumstances, though, uh, and I'm only one person. Yeah, uh, that that would probably be the most common form of homophobia would just be that that, um the the use of homophobic language in every day. Um, yeah, in the workplace. Uh, I'd like to say that it doesn't happen out there on the street. Um, and that we're professional when they're out there and that people let their guard down, perhaps when they're back at the office. Um, but [00:07:00] yeah. Uh, but as far as actual but, uh, actual discrimination as such, I can't think of anything off the top of my head that I personally have witnessed. But then I've only been here for 12 years, and perhaps some of the members that have been in longer would be able to come up with some some fairly interesting stories. Yeah, I'm wondering about Are there any instances in the work that you do that kind of jar against kind of gay and lesbian culture. I mean, I'm thinking of, for instance, like, say, pride [00:07:30] parades where there might be a bit more flesh exposed, or the, um, gay beats for for public sex and stuff are are there instances where the whole idea of being queer and being the police kind of jar up against each other? Yeah, and I think the gay beats is probably a really good example of that, because the hero parade doesn't exist anymore. Unfortunately, and I don't think we've had a parade for a long time in Wellington. Um, but beats are certainly still alive and well and part of our [00:08:00] community throughout the I mean, I work in. So throughout the Wellington district, there's a lot of, um, beats that are frequented. And I'm sure there are probably staff members that frequent those beats. Um, and from time to time, we still get called to jobs at the beats. Um, you know, uh, popular public toilets that are that are part of the sort of beat circuit, if you like. Um, and I guess educating and talking to, um, my colleagues about how [00:08:30] to handle those situations as part of what I do and part of the process of, um, of making it less of an issue and and making that whole process smoother so it can be handled correctly, uh, and not dealt with in a knee jerk reaction that could have sort of long lasting, damaging, uh, repercussions for the people that are involved. When you say dealt with correctly, what does that mean? Uh, well, I think there's historically there's, um you know, it hasn't been dealt with particularly well. And and, um, back in the seventies [00:09:00] and eighties, there was certainly the beats were targeted by the police, and there were cases of entrapment. Uh, and there were, you know, upstanding members of society who frequented the beats who whose lives were destroyed by the way that the police reacted. And I would like to say that we're all a bit more enlightened these days, and part of the DLO role is to is to reinforce those messages, um, that there's a right and a wrong way for dealing with people who are frequenting beats and and certainly, if the behaviour is overtly offensive, [00:09:30] then it can be dealt with because it's overtly offensive and not simply because it's a beat and it's a gay issue. Yeah, you've mentioned a couple of times. DO What? What is that? Sorry. DO stands for diversity liaison officers. And we're a safe point of call within the organisation for members of the GL BT I community. If they don't feel comfortable fronting up to their, um, you know their home station with a complaint or they feel that they haven't been dealt with, um, as they would have liked, they can contact the DLO, and then we can help get the ball rolling [00:10:00] from there. Also part of that role is is that education was actually in the force itself. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, some of us deliver training. I've delivered training to the senior courses at the police college. The the, um, the community constables courses, the senior sergeants courses. And and it's all simply around. Um uh, well, we used to call it inclusiveness training, but it's diversity training as well, and just familiarising them with the terms. Um, talking to them about beats those sorts of things and and sort of common [00:10:30] common issues that they may come across. Um, when they're dealing with the GL BT I community how much how much training is given in that in that area? Uh, it sort of depends on where you are in Wellington. We're quite, um, you know, we're lucky we've got the police college right there so we can hook into the training that's already happening there and and get our message across. Um, but some of the some of the sort of the smaller centres, um probably don't get any exposure to training of that sort whatsoever. Yeah, uh, we [00:11:00] we So we have a programme once a year. We'll run, uh, a training session with the frontline constables. And we'll we'll run the same training session for five weeks to cover off all the different sections that are working in the district. Uh, and it's part of the mandated training programme. So that's another way of hooking in there. So this conference is this the first time the police have been represented at a, uh, a queer conference in New Zealand? No, Uh, we've been to a few, Uh, the last one that we went to was the agenda, the annual or bi annual agenda [00:11:30] conference that was here in Wellington a couple of years ago, and that would probably be the the the last big conference that we were at. Um, and and mostly it's APR exercise because a lot of people don't realise that the DL OS uh exist. But there's also a lot of issues that we can help discuss with all the different, um, groups. And it's a good networking opportunity to hook in with all the other agencies. And what do you personally get out of it? Job satisfaction. Yeah. No, it really is. Uh, I I'm [00:12:00] a My full time job is I'm a frontline I work in. It's a pretty difficult job, and it's often very negative. Uh, and often, uh, when people meet me, I'm I'm there to arrest somebody or deliver bad news. Uh, and my DLO work is a positive injection into my work. Uh, and it's a portfolio position. So it's something that I do, uh, on the side and in my spare time. Um and it gives me a lot of satisfaction of doing something positive for my own community [00:12:30] Now, skipping your head 30 years. If somebody was to hear this in 30 years time, what would you say to that person I hope that things have changed and that things have progressed. Uh, and I hope that the DL OS are no longer needed, because ultimately, that's what we want to do is we want to do ourselves out of a job because, I, I would like to think that we'll reach a point. Um, sometime in the future, where everybody's a diversity liaison officer. Everybody understands the issues that are specific to to the queer community. Um, and [00:13:00] there's no longer a need to have somebody specific there to do that liaising. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 2010s ; Asia Pacific Outgames ; Asia Pacific Outgames (2011) ; Diversity Liaison Officers (police) ; Events ; Job ; Moana Parsons ; New Zealand Police ; Pacific ; People ; Stuff ; Wellington ; Wellington Town Hall ; agenda ; beats ; community ; conference ; crime ; culture ; data ; discrimination ; diversity ; diversity training ; education ; employment ; entrapment ; exercise ; future ; gay ; gender ; heterosexual ; homophobia ; hope ; human rights ; language ; law ; lesbian ; march ; masculinity ; minority ; news ; occupation ; opportunity ; other ; parade ; police ; queer ; sexual orientation ; sexuality ; so gay ; structure ; support ; surgeon ; time ; top ; training ; university ; women ; work ; yellow. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/apog_moana_parsons.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089472. Moana Parsons also features audibly in the following recordings: "Mo - Butch on Butch". Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.