The title of this recording is "Mike Bryant and Eba Clemens". It is described as: Mike Bryant and Eba Clemens from New Zealand talk about attending the AsiaPacific Outgames human rights conference (2011). It was recorded in Wellington Town Hall, 101 Wakefield Street, Wellington on the 16th March 2011. This is an interview with Eba Clemens and Mike Bryant. The interviewer is Jim Whitman. Their names are spelt correctly, but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 11 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Mike Bryant and Eba Clemens from New Zealand talk about attending the human rights conference. The content in the recording covers the 2010s decade. A brief summary of the recording is: This abstract summarizes an 11-minute interview recorded in Wellington Town Hall on March 16, 2011, where Eba Clemens and Mike Bryant share their experiences and reflections after attending a human rights conference. Interviewed by Jim Whitman, Clemens and Bryant discuss the intensity and emotional impact of the conference, as well as the importance and enjoyment they found in participating. During the conference, they encountered heartfelt stories from various individuals, including a man from Fiji who suffered abuse for coming out. Bryant, from Invercargill, reflects on the challenge of being open in a community with scarce representation of the lesbian and gay population. They highlight the contrast seen at the conference, where openness and freedom in the community seemed remarkable. Bryant also considers shifting their world view upon realizing not everyone has had as easy a journey regarding their sexuality and identity. Another point of discussion is the notion of safety and visibility in schools. Bryant shares their positive experience post-coming out, where the school environment surprisingly became more accepting. In contrast, Clemens indicates a struggle with school environments that lack support from administration and peers. They discuss the types of individuals in school settings that can make life difficult, such as conventional “jocks” and popular groups, who often perpetuate a non-inclusive hierarchy particularly challenging for those who may not conform to traditional gender norms. The conversation moves on to intersections of gender and sexuality. Both interviewees acknowledge the complexity of gender identity and sexual orientation, noting that a person may change their sex without altering their orientation, demonstrating the separateness and yet interconnectedness of these aspects of identity. Clemens and Bryant find humor and understanding in navigating societal perceptions, as they share anecdotes about their personal journey and self-acceptance. One key takeaway from the conference for the interviewees is a deeper understanding of human rights. They express enthusiasm for incorporating the knowledge they've gained into their everyday lives, with Bryant especially eager to remember every detail. They agree on human rights as a living principle, emphasizing the importance of continuously reassessing and evolving with societal changes. The interviewees reflect on the idea that certain communities might have enjoyed more rights before the impact of external imperialism, criminal codes, and religious interventions. They compare this to New Zealand, where there is relative acceptance and progressiveness on LGBTQ+ matters, and Bryant stresses the uniqueness of New Zealand and the importance of grassroots activism. The full transcription of the recording follows.  It includes timestamps every thirty seconds in the format [HH:MM:SS].  The transcription begins:  You've had a day of and a half of the conference. What's it been like? Intense, but thoroughly enjoyable, I think. Um, yeah, it's it's It's been emotional and intense at times, but I think it's thoroughly worthwhile and lots of fun. Oh, hell, yes. Fun. First conference for me. So it's, um, definitely in your experience. Um, yeah. So what have you found That's challenging [00:00:30] about it being open. Um, where I come from, down in, in the cargo while you can be open, it's not enough people in the lesbian and gay communities, um, to make it, you know, out there sort of thing. So being here and seeing, um the community is being open and free is is quite remarkable. Um, for me, it was, uh, [00:01:00] like, for example, yesterday we were in one of the we were in one of the caucuses. Um, and there was this man talking about coming out in Fiji, and he went through all this crap, all that absolutely awful stuff, you know, molestation and and abuse. And I think the most challenging. Yeah, I think the most challenging thing for me was hearing stories, hearing that and hearing stories like that and, [00:01:30] um, I don't know, sort of I I have to. It makes me have to sort of sort of shift my world around a bit because I've always had it fairly easy, and I forget that other people have awful times. So I have to change my perception. That's a challenging thing for me. No, it was horrible hearing his story, Um, the amount of people that he went to for help, the amount of people that wanted him to do things for him to [00:02:00] get that help, uh, like sexual favours. And I just wanted to go over and give him a cuddle. Him, Actually, I wanted to see him at the end of it, but he he quickly dished away, um, which I thought was sad. But I mean, in situations like that, I can understand that you wouldn't want to be there for too long. Yes, that's deeply shocking, isn't it? There's a quality of abuse and exploitation around [00:02:30] many people's experience, whether it's what transgender prostitution, it's continuous, perhaps? Well, as I said, I mean, I had I had a fair bit of bullying at school, but generally I had it pretty easy and nothing can compared to a hell of a lot of people here. It's heartbreaking. Some research I was listening to in Australia. Um, it it presented a pretty tough time. You know, young people in school, [00:03:00] I got a sense that Do you think schools have human rights? People sign up for conventions. My my school was pretty good, to be honest, Um, I was I. I got more shit. When I was sorry, I got I got more insults and bullying before I came out. Then afterwards, after I came out, it sort of went the opposite, and everyone sort of wanted to be seen as really accepting. So my school was really good. But I've heard some horror [00:03:30] stories from other schools. For me, it's the opposite. Um, you might find teachers that would want to support it, but administration would be against it. Um, the youth themselves would would be against it. And it's like you can't move on without someone actually standing up and literally fighting with everything they've They've got to get, you know, change happening Are the particular types of people [00:04:00] in school do you think, or in your experience as young people who make life difficult for you Or can it come from rugby, boys? The the sort of big jock, popular type guys and and the the giggly, popular Pretty girls generally make it quite difficult. I. I would think that the sort of misfits understand a bit more. So they're a bit more accepting. I think, Um, I know there was a [00:04:30] seminar that was that. I went to, um, yesterday, um, you know, saying that, um, single schools would have the hierarchy of this is the lower levels. Then you've got your sporting achievements, and you all look up to them and want to be there and be this masculine thing. Yeah, and then they've got their arms fed under their chest, very staunchly and being, you know, I'm the man sort of thing. And [00:05:00] yeah, I think that increases the pressure to not be feminine. To not be something that's not big strong. I can handle whatever happens. That was hard for me because I'm a Nancy little gay boy. The the the research. It's something I can identify with myself. Um, I I when I was younger, I knew what my sexuality was. I think after a point in which I realised and things [00:05:30] got a bit clearer. But if you ask me, are you a Are you male or female? Then that's quite a confrontational question. If you don't want necessarily to be a man, the one I get quite often is because I sound gay and I used to have longer hair. I quite often get little kids going. Mommy, is that a boy or a girl? Which is quite it's always quite fun. It's not for the for the whole question. I [00:06:00] actually find it quite funny because I've actually been through school. I should say, um told that because I'm gay, I want to be a female and it's like I've asked myself that question, you know, do I want to be a female? And it's like, No, I'm happy with what I've got. Um, I just want to be with another man. My mom said the same when I came out, and she was like, Do you want to be a girl? And I replied with No, I'm quite fond of my Penis. Thank you. It's definitely something you're attached to. Oh, yes, well, [00:06:30] that's attached to you. So wagging the dog sexuality and gender can be quite separate. Yeah, they they definitely are. They are. And you know, a person can be transgendered, and they can Just because they change their sex from one to the other doesn't mean that their orientation changes. They're completely and utterly separate, but and the same way they also have that definite connection. It's It's a very weird thing. [00:07:00] Yeah. So your experience of the conference has been positive. Um, are there any things that you'd like to take away with you? There's nothing that I don't want to take away with me. I want to take everything. I'm I'm forgetting the names of friends because I want to make more room in my brain that I can keep everything in to upgrade your hard drive. I've heard that before. No, Uh, I, I think that everything [00:07:30] I've learned has been, uh, important and worthwhile. So I'm completely happy. Yeah, I'm glad that yesterday they were doing intersex workshops, But what they, um, changed, um, was that they were going to do three separate things, but they decided to reduce it down into three sessions to have all speakers speak. Um, for me, I've never experienced people that have identified as that. So it's quite a, um, [00:08:00] opportunity to go and see. So that's what I and you learn what gender queer means. Still learning what gender queer means? Were you very familiar with the ideas of human rights Before coming to this conference? I think I sort of in terms of human rights. I had a vague, all encompassing type idea, and in a way, I still have that. But more of the grey areas have been filled in, so [00:08:30] I still have this large idea of what human rights is and should be. But there were patches, and those patches are slowly getting filled in. If that makes sense, I have to agree. Um, that was said bluntly, Um, you're welcome. Um, you know, we've all got this preconceived idea. Um, and then someone says that, Hey, these people should be included. You know, Why are they left outside of the majority circle? And it's like you've [00:09:00] got to keep reassessing. What is the correct thing to do? Because it's not like something that you can go. They are such and such, or they are something else. It's Yeah, I think it's definitely a living principle, and it's always going to be changing. And you've got to move with it because society is always changing. So human rights itself should be as organic as we are because, you know, humans are all crazy. Anyway, our opinions and thoughts change. And so human [00:09:30] rights should sort of some of the speakers have sounded as if they might have had more human rights before imperialism and criminal codes imported from outside and religion and human rights is turning the clock back for them to possibly a better time. Um, which is less the case? Possibly for people, Um, in New Zealand. Yeah, because in comparison with a lot of other countries, [00:10:00] New Zealand is pretty sweet. Really? I mean, I, I think that as a whole, New Zealand is actually pretty accepting of the whole gay thing. There are obviously the the wankers that you'll get those everywhere. So how do you feel about New Zealand? Um, I always knew that New Zealand was unique. Um, and I always knew that the of made it unique and all that, but it's just reaffirming that, you know, self teaching [00:10:30] sort of things is true and that you know ground making work literally does start where you are. So the Treaty of Waitangi was li literally the start of New Zealand forming its own, um, independence. Even though we might be linked with laws and all that sort of thing, we can evolve, um, and proceed. Um, it's just a matter of getting out there doing it and basically bringing it back to the people. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 2010s ; Asia Pacific Outgames (2011) ; Australia ; Eba Clemens ; Fiji ; God ; Jim Whitman ; Job ; Mike Bryant ; Pacific ; People ; Stuff ; Wellington ; Wellington Town Hall ; Youth ; abuse ; bullying ; change ; children ; coming out ; conference ; dog ; emotional ; exploitation ; friends ; fun ; gay ; gender ; genderqueer ; hell ; human rights ; imperialism ; intersex ; listening ; march ; molestation ; news ; opportunity ; other ; parties ; perception ; queer ; religion ; research ; rugby ; school ; sexuality ; support ; teaching ; time ; tough ; transgender ; work ; writing ; youth. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/apog_mike_bryant_and_eba_clemens.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089470. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.