The title of this recording is "Michael Stevens". It was recorded in Wellington Town Hall, 101 Wakefield Street, Wellington on the 17th March 2011. Michael Stevens is being interviewed by Gareth Watkins.  Their names are spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 10 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Michael Stevens from New Zealand talks about attending the human rights conference. The content in the recording covers the 2010s decade. A brief summary of the recording is: In a podcast recorded at the Wellington Town Hall on March 17th, 2011, Michael Stevens, an academic from the University of Auckland, discusses their experience attending a human rights conference. As a sociologist working on their PhD, with a research focus on HIV, gay men, and sexuality, Stevens highlights the intersection of human rights and religion, especially in how different branches of Christianity view sexual minorities. Stevens observes that while established religion often doesn't support queer rights, smaller religious groups have begun interpreting Christian teachings as a basis to endorse the dignity and rights of sexual minorities. The conversation touches on the social forces driving these changes and the role of public tolerance. They note that New Zealand society is generally liberal, with religion largely considered a private matter, and public tolerance for diversity has increased significantly over the last two decades. Nonetheless, Stevens expresses caution, aware that shifts in social attitudes can lead to unexpected conservative turns. The significance of the conference for Stevens lies in the ability to connect with others from around the region, sharing stories, and fostering a sense of recognition and solidarity among marginalized groups. They highlight the importance of face-to-face interaction and the shared understanding that arises from collective experiences. Despite the attestment to a prevailing liberal attitude in New Zealand, Stevens remarks on the lack of challenges to their own perspectives within the conference, suggesting a shared consensus among participants. A standout moment for Stevens was a plenary speech by Marilyn Waring, which resonated due to shared generational experiences and the compelling nature of their presentation. In considering the mood of the conference, they describe it as positive and energizing, yet stress the importance of translating this enthusiasm into sustained action through maintaining networks and momentum post-conference. Addressing media coverage, Stevens criticizes the mainstream media for nearly ignoring the event, viewing it as a form of oppression through invisibility. Conversely, they praise the gay media's active reporting, especially the quick updates provided by gay and Z media outlets. When discussing the visibility and anticipation of the conference and Outgames within Auckland's gay circles, Stevens notes that while the latter seemed more prominent, the academic and activist circles were more aware of the human rights conference. They emphasize the remaining challenges within queer cultures in New Zealand, such as complacency, mental health disparities, substance abuse, and suicide rates, and the persistent need for complete equality in terms of human rights. Lastly, Stevens expresses hope that future generations will inherit a world where sexual minority issues are non-events, and the social disparities they currently face will have been equated to the rest of the population. They yearn for a world not just free of regression but one that has progressed to ensure comfort and acceptance for all. The full transcription of the recording follows.  It includes timestamps every thirty seconds in the format [HH:MM:SS].  The transcription begins:  Um I'm Michael Stevens. I'm a gay man. I work in academia. I'm a sociologist at the University of Auckland, working on a PhD. My main research areas are around HIV and gay men and, um uh, sexuality. And you came to the conference because, um, I came to the conference because, uh, when I was invited to come and speak here, um, to give a presentation on human rights and, um [00:00:30] uh, religion and how that how those two have intersected in the world of, um, sexual minorities. And because I'm always interested in getting some kind of, uh, international, um, perspective on what's going around in in the world. So I wanted to see what's happening. So with your presentation, how do those two things intersect? I would say they I mean, there have been aspects of religion that have that have been supportive of, um, queer rights. But, um, generally established religion is not so I was sort of looking [00:01:00] at the fact Does it feed into that? Can you give me some examples? Um, or we can see things like, um, some branches of Christianity becoming more and more open to sexual diversity and sexual minority These are not the mainstream churches, not the big churches, like the Catholics or the Orthodox, typically. But, um um, often smaller church groups have decided that that their interpretation of Christianity means they should support, um, sexual minorities and their achievement and their struggle to achieve full, um, dignity [00:01:30] and human rights. So it sort of examining the social forces that that drive that and the areas of social change that push churches to change their position. Do you think that change, particularly in New Zealand, is? I mean, is it becoming more liberal and more conservative? New Zealand? Well, yeah, I would say that New Zealand Society is is fairly liberal. It's not radical, but it's it's, um, it's fairly liberal, and religion doesn't play a large part in in the public sphere. In New Zealand life, it's seen as a private matter. And so there's a lot of, um, public tolerance for difference [00:02:00] now, much more so than there was, say, 20 years ago. I think there's been a distinct change. Whether it's going to last for another 20 years is another matter. Why do you say that? Well, I'm just aware that things do change over time and unexpected, um, social forces can arise. Something could happen to switch. Um, you know the country to a much more conservative mindset or something that's that is possible. I don't think it's likely. I'm just saying it's possible. What are the biggest things you get out of out of a conference like this? I think it's [00:02:30] the face to face contact with, um, people from around New Zealand and from around the region. Um so whatever form of, um, sort of sexual minority, we belong to just being able to, um, hear their stories, to meet them over coffee, to discuss a few ideas, to say, Yeah, that really resonated with me or that's interesting. I never thought about it that way, just that sense of connection and also that sense of recognition. And, you know, New Zealand's tucked away at the bottom of the world. We're a long way from everywhere and everybody, [00:03:00] so it's great when we get a chance to talk to people from, you know around the region who come here. So I think it's a really valuable opportunity. Has there been anything that's really challenged? What you've thought or or or some of your ideas? No, not yet. No, I mean, this is a human rights conference, and I guess I'm a human rights hawk. So, um, I'm no, Nothing's actually challenged my way of thinking here. I've heard a lot of things I really agree with, or some things that have made me, um, really pleased to hear about, but nothing sort of. I don't [00:03:30] think my position needs too much changing. So what are some of the things that have resonated with you the most? I think for me, the highlight so far has been, um, Marilyn Waring's, um, speech at the opening plenary, probably because we come from a similar generation. And so she was talking about her life story, and I'm a few years behind her, but I remember all the events she was discussing and talking about. And, um, I think just the way she talked about it and how she presented it just, [00:04:00] I think was was excellent. And yeah, for me, that was That was the best thing I've heard so far. Can you describe the mood or the vibe of the conference? What have you picked up? I think the vibe is very positive. Very upbeat. Um, it seems reproductive. Um, sessions are busy. No one's complaining that I can make out. Everyone seems happy. So So that's a good sign. I guess one of the things is how to translate all the positive energy and the words into [00:04:30] actions after the conference and to keep the momentum going. Do you have any thoughts about that? That's always the problem. And that will depend on maintaining networks, keeping in contact with people and, um, or keeping the ball rolling. Basically, I think it will. I mean, you know, people that this is not the first time this conference has been held. It certainly won't be the last time. Sure, So this will be an ongoing event. Now, I know that you're very media savvy and that you blog and, uh, very interested in kind [00:05:00] of gay media. And I'm just wondering if you had any comments on the level of reportage that has happened about this conference and the art games, both in the gay media and also in the mainstream media. Well, the mainstream media has ignored it, basically, hasn't it? Which is disgraceful. Um, this is a major event happening in the capital and there should have been some coverage somewhere. I mean, I haven't seen anything. I. I think there was a small there might have been small articles in the Dominion Post, but not not no [00:05:30] mainstream TV news. Yeah, I mean, you would have thought we would have got 30 seconds somewhere on the TV news or something. Um, so I think that that mainstream coverage has been poor. Um, and I think it's a sign of, um what? Heterosexual? I think it's a sign of oppression, if you like, you know, to be bluntly political. You know, they're marginalising us that if you if they don't talk about us, you become invisible, even though we've actually been extremely visible in the city. But if the media makes us invisible, that dis empowers us to some extent. So I don't like that, um, [00:06:00] what I've seen with the gay media. Um, well, all I've seen is gay and Z, and they seem to be updating their website every couple of hours or so with stories at the moment. So that's been great. I think in the way they've been trying to cover it. Now you're based in Auckland. Aren't you? Yes, I'm based in Auckland. So how is this conference in the out game scene in the Auckland gay circles? Um well, I think the out games was much more visible in the conference itself, and people were looking forward to it. People were talking about training [00:06:30] and participating and having a good time and really looking forward to coming to it. I didn't really hear too many people who knew that much about the conference itself unless they were other academics or, um, activists. But an awful lot of sort of, I don't know, Um, Non-activist, if you like ordinary, um, gaming that I knew were coming down here to participate in the games and really looking forward to it. What will you take away from this conference? What are the biggest things you would take away? I think it's always that sense of solidarity of hearing, you know, when you hear, um, stories [00:07:00] from, um, halfway around the world that, um, you can relate to and you think, Yeah, that's actually something I've seen in my life, too. It builds a sense of solidarity and connection, and, um, I think that's always an important thing to do for um, any marginalised group and to have that awareness of each other and just reinforces, um that, uh, we might be minorities, but we're not alone. What do you think the biggest issues are for queer cultures in New Zealand? I think that some of the biggest issues are complacency. [00:07:30] I mean, I think a lot of people think that, um, we don't have any real problems left any longer, and I'd say that's not true. I think there's still a lot of, um, homophobia out there. I think when you look at gay mental, um, queer mental health in general, Queer alcohol and drug use queer suicide rates, they're vastly disproportionate. Um, compared to the rest of the population, this is bad. This is something we don't like. Um, so I think that's something to be that we need. We need to be aware that [00:08:00] we've made great gains, but we haven't achieved complete equality at all. This is a human rights conference, and for me to achieve full human rights means to be treated exactly the same with the same level of dignity, the same rights and the same responsibilities as anybody else. The fact that the number of people accept the civil Union bill instead of marriage, for example. I would say, um, that it's a lesser form of relationship, but it's a lesser form of recognition. It doesn't give us full equality in terms of human rights, and it's something I personally opposed at the time. I think we should [00:08:30] have gone for equality or nothing. So I think, um, I think complacency, I think thinking, you know, things are much, much better than they were 2030 years ago. There's no denying it, but we've still got We still got things to fight for. We still got a struggle. Um, if you're, um you know, a young, a young queer of any sort of type growing up in or whatever life is gonna be still gonna be pretty hard and pretty isolating. How do we reach those people? How do we look after them? I think we've still got real issues to face. Um, but I think I think they're getting. It's getting [00:09:00] harder to make people see them in what way? Oh, because so many of us do live comfortable urban lives. You know, um, we can be out in our workplace and that sort of thing. We just get on with our lives and we tend to forget about the people who aren't enjoying that kind of lifestyle and who won't be able to. And that's what I mean. I suppose, by the complacency, we sort of look around. If you if you live in urban Wellington or Auckland, you know, you can you can see gay men. In my case [00:09:30] around you successful living ordinary lives. Everything seems fine. You forget about all the people that aren't included that that don't have that level of of freedom and and and ease in their lives that we do. So I think we need to remember that, um, it's, you know, we are privileged and privileged. It doesn't, um, spread out to everybody equally. And I would like to see us, um, push for that, that level of social privilege to be more widely distributed. So if somebody is listening to this tape in 30 years time, [00:10:00] what would you like to say to them? Be 80 nearly. Um, what would I like to say for someone in 30 years time? I hope. I hope things have, You know, I hope we haven't gone backwards at all. I hope, um, sexual minorities are no longer the issue that they are in this time and that, um, being queer of any type is has become a non event. And, uh, that those sort of some of those social indicators that I mentioned earlier, like suicide [00:10:30] rates, drug and alcohol abuse, et cetera. I hope that they, um they are down to the proportionate level with the rest of the population. I hope that you know, I. I hope that I hope it's a better world and a better place, but I'm not sure it will be. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 2010s ; Asia Pacific Outgames ; Asia Pacific Outgames (2011) ; Auckland ; Christianity ; Michael Stevens ; Pacific ; People ; University of Auckland ; Wellington ; Wellington Town Hall ; abuse ; academia ; academics ; actions ; alcohol ; bottom ; capital ; change ; church ; coffee ; complacency ; conference ; conservative ; difference ; dignity ; diversity ; energy ; equality ; face ; freedom ; gaming ; gay ; growing up ; health ; hell ; homophobia ; hope ; human rights ; lifestyle ; listening ; mainstream ; march ; marriage ; media ; mental health ; minority ; museums ; news ; opportunity ; other ; privilege ; queer ; queer rights ; recognition ; religion ; research ; scene ; sexism ; sexuality ; social ; social change ; solidarity ; speech ; struggle ; suicide ; support ; time ; tolerance ; training ; university ; urban ; website ; work. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/apog_michael_stevens.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089469. Michael Stevens also features audibly in the following recordings: "Conference closing - AsiaPacific Outgames", "The Book That Turned the Light On Part 2 - Same Same But Different writers festival", "Our Forgotten Epidemic. Part Four - How we lost so many", "Our Forgotten Epidemic. Part Five - Do we dare to hope?", "Our Forgotten Epidemic. Part Six - Our future is our past" and "Our Forgotten Epidemic - trailer". Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.