The title of this recording is "Khartini Slamah (1)". It was recorded in Wellington Town Hall, 101 Wakefield Street, Wellington on the 16th March 2011. Khartini Slamah is being interviewed by Gareth Watkins.  Their names are spelt correctly but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 6 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Khartini Slamah from Malaysia talks about attending the human rights conference. The content in the recording covers the 2010s decade. The audio recording begins:  I think the reason why I attend this conference is this is the first time you know where the opportunity for the Trans to meet. Yeah, especially when you talk about trans issues, is hardly being discussed in the Asia Pacific region. I've been attending the international conference, but this is the first one in Asia and the Pacific Focus on the transit issues. I presented a paper yesterday on the trans workers for the issues they face, especially when you talk about the trans sex workers. You know, they also face like violence. They also face in terms of issues like health, police and many other authorities, especially from the religious side that they face daily in their life. So that is what when we present my paper yesterday and yesterday, it was an opportunity also for because for me, like the founder for the Asia Pacific Transgender Network, what I learned yesterday is to hear more from the transform the Pacific, where we hardly could hear at conferences the transpacific coming to a conference. So it's an opportunity for me from what do you call the ASIC Transgender network to hear myself? The issues and concern are the issues from different countries very similar when it comes to trans issues, I think the issues is similar, even though when you talk about discrimination varies from one country to one countries, there are countries. When you talk about like, for example, Cambodia, it might be worse because it's run by military, same as Fiji. So that way. As I said, discrimination varies from countries to countries, even though, like I come from Malaysia, which is a Muslim country again, the discrimination is different. So for me, like you know, to hear today the statement from our what do you call Human Rights commission from Malaysia? There's nothing much I could see the change, you know, when you talk about trans issues. I've been advocating for trans issues for almost 23 years, so nothing much has been changed and again because you're always using the sensitivity of the religion first you know and everything. That is why, like in Malaysia, when you talk about, we have to face like you know, the civil law and the Sharia law. So it's very difficult to move in terms of making a change in Malaysia. So what are the main issues for trans people in Malaysia legal the legal recognition. That is what we face now because transgender women or transgender men are not recognised. Yeah, because even though in the early eighties I could consider that they are recognised. But now I think Malaysia is moving backward. It's not moving forward until they are not recognising us, because again, we always are daily harassed by the relevant authorities. Either it's by the religious or by the police. Because I think in Malaysia most of these transgender women are involved in sex work. So that is why the police is always after them. And because then again, because Malaysia we have what do you call, uh, sorry Sharia Law and the civil law. And again, the Sharia law is not uniform in Malaysia because each state is controlled by the sultan itself. So in terms of the enactment from state to state is different. So that's why it's very difficult for us to challenge anything at this moment. But as we say, we are not giving up and we are challenging to make a change. Why is sex work and transgender so tied together in Malaysia? You see, because of, uh, limited options of job. Uh, and and that is why a lot of these transgender women involved in sex work and again because of, you know, not acceptance by the family. Yeah, and again by the society. Because it's a stereotype. They always think that, you know, once you are transgender women, the best thing to give to the transgender is a sewing machine. We don't need a sewing machine. What we need is better than that. We can do like other people. What we what we demand is equal rights. Yeah, we don't demand for special rights. What we demand is equal rights like any other citizen in Malaysia. So if other citizens have that right, I think the transgender women also have rights saying that you want equal rights and saying it loudly, Does that put you in a in a difficult situation? It can be, you know, putting myself in a difficult situation because of the perception of the society to assess, because they think that the transgender women is only a sex object. That's why you know they are involved in sex work. They gain the way of the media. Portraying the transgender is very negative. They never portrayed the positive side of transgender. And all this while transgender are being seen as like a low class person. Yeah, and I think that it's wrong. We are, I mean, no difference from other people. So I think that we have the right right, like any other people. So how do you change the perception in Malaysia? There's a It's a long advocacy and ongoing advocacy because when you talk about, you know, to make a change, you need to create awareness to the public, not only about transition, even at school. You know, even if you look at the sex education in Malaysia, it's only talk about men and women. No other gender. So and again, you know, when you talk about sex education, they only think about sex. They don't think about the whole what you call issues. You know, when you talk about sex education, I think that this is the wrong idea that they give impression to the public about the transgender community. Looking ahead, if somebody was listening to this tape in 30 years time, what? What would you like to say to them what I would like to say? Um, except transgender We are normal people. We are no different. What we demand is again. As I said, we demand for equal rights and I wish to see that you know, transgender has been accepted by the society by the Malaysian people and we are the citizen of Malaysia. That's it. The audio recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 2010s; Asia Pacific Outgames (2011); Khartini Slamah; Malaysia; human rights; sex work. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/apog_khartini_slamah_1.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089463. Khartini Slamah also features audibly in the following recordings: "Khartini Slamah (2)". Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.