The title of this recording is "Julie Douglas and co". It was recorded in Wellington Town Hall, 101 Wakefield Street, Wellington on the 18th March 2011. This is an interview with Julie Douglas, Liz Robinson and Rob Haultain. The interviewer is Gareth Watkins. Their names are spelt correctly, but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document. The duration of the recording is 9 minutes. A list of correctly spelt content keywords and tags can be found at the end of this document. A brief description of the recording is: In this podcast Julie Douglas, Liz Robinson and Rob Haultain from New Zealand talk about attending the human rights conference. The content in the recording covers the 2010s decade. A brief summary of the recording is: This summary encapsulates the salient points from a 9-minute recording of an interview with Julie Douglas, Liz Robinson, and Rob Haultain, conducted by interviewer Gareth Watkins at the Wellington Town Hall, New Zealand. The participants, who are associated with various New Zealand unions, discuss their experiences and insights at a human rights conference. The Wellington Town Hall served as the backdrop for a conversation exploring the intersection of labor rights and human rights as part of the 2010s decade series. The participants - members of different unions and a common network, the CTU Out at Work Network - emphasize the conference's significance due to its inclusive focus on LGBTI community issues and work rights. They highlight the convergence of union conferences and the power of collective action in championing human rights globally. One recurring theme is the disparity in human rights issues across the Pacific, with a particular focus on Fiji, where freedoms are constrained by an unelected military regime. Contrastingly, New Zealand is seen as progressive in its acceptance of diversity, yet the conference also uncovers ongoing struggles such as the acceptance of trans individuals in the broader queer community. Moreover, the participants discuss how the conference has illuminated certain Pacific cultures' acceptance of trans individuals, yet general queerness remains marginalized. The interviewees express surprise and a deepened understanding of the complexities within Pacific communities concerning gender and sexual identities. The Union members acknowledge how the conference challenges their preconceptions and underscores internal prejudices within the LGBTI community that need addressing. They share the confronting reality of their own community4's discord around accepting trans individuals, echoing the broader conference sentiment that unity still requires effort. Union sessions at the conference underscore the critical linkage between labor rights and human rights, prompting discussions on inclusive diversity training and awareness within unions. The interviewees express the urgency in creating queer-friendly spaces within labor unions and highlight the immediate need for activism in response to political threats to the queer community in New Zealand. Finally, the participants react to statements made by political figures like John Key and Marilyn Waring, debating the adequacy of civil unions compared to marriage equality and the implications for recognition of relationships. As they conclude, the union members convey a message to future listeners, hoping their contributions to advancing human rights and representing the queer community will have a lasting positive impact, reflecting on the continuum of change and their place within its history. The full transcription of the recording follows.  It includes timestamps every thirty seconds in the format [HH:MM:SS].  The transcription begins:  Ah, I'm Julie Douglas. I'm here because I'm part of the CTU out of work network. So I was really keen to come down. I'm Liz Robinson. I'm here as part of the out at work conference as well. And I'm a member of the national distribution union. And I'm Rob, and I'm a member of Service and Food Workers Union and part of the out at work network. The CD U out at Work Network. Yeah. So you've combined the conferences together this year? Yes. Yeah, that's right. I think it's fantastic. I think we're really lucky to be part of something this [00:00:30] big and this important. And, um, I'm really loving that we can bring, um, work rights into human rights and, um, do some really good work on that Here. Have the space to do it with people from other unions from other countries all around the Pacific. You say it's big and important. Why is it important? Um, I kind of didn't realise when I first came, but now I, um, the plenary session was talking about the importance of human rights and the work that we need to do globally and around the world. It's just sort of opened my eyes [00:01:00] to the the power that we have, Um uh, to make change and the power that we gain from coming together as, um LGBTI communities. Yeah. And I went to the out games, the the concurrent, um, human rights conference in Sydney in 2002. So I knew that it would combine really well, and it's fantastic because you get to be with your whole, which is just wonderful. But it [00:01:30] does really exemplify for me how, um well off we are in New Zealand, and, um, part of the thing that we've been thinking about as a as a workers, um, queer network is how we can support our sisters and brothers in the Pacific. And I think that being able to hear their stories and be with them, he has made it really clear to us that that's a piece of work that that we can do and that we really can support those people to achieve work rights and human rights in their home countries. So what have been some of the key [00:02:00] issues that have come up in terms of Pacific issues? Um, well, I think it depends on which Pacific country that you're talking about, But I think you know, for example, Fiji. There's just such a lack of every kind of freedom there. There's theoretical rights that people have enshrined in the law. That's left or new law that's been made by an unelected military junta. Basically. But, um, yeah, people aren't free to have a view or live their lives the way [00:02:30] that they want to live their lives. It's not. It doesn't feel safe to people to be out. Um and yeah, every assumption that we can take for granted in New Zealand. It doesn't. It doesn't seem as though people in Fiji, for example, can make any of those assumptions at all. Um, and another thing that's been really interesting to me that I hadn't thought about before, is that that whole, um, acceptance of some sort of mode of trans living [00:03:00] in Pacific culture that's accepted. But, um, ordinary queerness is not so. It's OK to be Trans, but it's not OK to be lesbian. For example, I hadn't I hadn't had that awareness and hadn't thought about that and what that would what that means. So yeah, that's a good bit of learning I've had. Has there been anything in the conference that's challenged your thoughts or your ideas? Yeah, I think I need to reflect. I think, um, the things that have challenged me are, um [00:03:30] maybe realising that, um, just because we're all a LGBTI communities, there's still oppressions and discriminations within our community that we need to work on. Like what? Uh, like, I think, um, we're not all on the same page about, um um, some some people don't accept, um, trans men as as, um, as men. Some people don't accept trans women as women. And, um, it's been confronting [00:04:00] to me to hear that in this forum. Yeah, Yeah, I was just, um because Julie's only been here for a short time. I was talking to her last night about some of the stuff that's come up over the time that we've been here and there. It has been challenging for me to to see how some of the stuff that we had arguments about 30 years ago is here again. But in relation to another group of people. So yeah, and the we had some young people come in our lesbian [00:04:30] forum who were like, how dare you stick the label of lesbian on me. And we were, like, 30 40 years ago. We fought really hard to reclaim that title and wear it proudly. And, um, we're not, actually, you know, you can claim it if you want, but you don't have to have it so that yeah, that was an interesting how some issues stay the same. And the importance of bringing young, queer folk and old queer folk together and having those conversations and yeah, sharing each [00:05:00] other's stories and realities has been really great for me. Yeah, What about the the the work side of things and the union side of things Has that kind of come up a lot in the conference? It has. There's been a whole work, ma stream of concurrent sessions, So yeah, every every hour of every time that we've been here, we've been talking about how work rights and union rights um are, you know, in in linked with human rights and, um, with with the work [00:05:30] that we need to do Yeah and I, I guess another thing that it hasn't been confronting, but it's definitely a piece of work that we need to get on and do is to have a more structured, um, diversity training and awareness programme within unions because, um, a lot of us hang out as a queer union group as well. So we all support each other, and we know what we know how to support each other and what's going on. But lots of people don't. So [00:06:00] I think that's a piece of work that we'll do is to really highlight diversity within the union now and encourage people to be, um, specifically conscious of queer Union members and how to make union spaces queer friendly spaces as well. Yeah, So what do you think you'll take out of this conference ideas about how to move forward and do some work. I think this is a big year for New Zealand, and I think with the political [00:06:30] environment, I think that the queer community is under threat again, and I think we need to mobilise and get people aware of that. I agree. But Julie, we absolutely do. This is time to go with ideas and actions. Yeah, um, really pushing that awareness about what the current government's regime means for queer people and emphasising that to our community is critical. And it's obvious to me that not [00:07:00] everyone has quite figured that out yet. So, yeah, that's a really important conversation to have with a lot of people right now. Can you recall what Marilyn Waring was saying about, um was it a John Key quote? Can you recall that quote? Um, about how we were lucky that he hasn't, um that the national, the national government's been good to queer people because they haven't rolled back any of the gains that we've made. Yeah. Yeah, I'm really pleased I missed that. Well, you know, the the first [00:07:30] reaction that that provoked to me when I heard it the first time when he was at the big Gay Out was a lot of swearing words, which I've been not put in the leg archive, but yeah, that's I mean, that was a good thing for her to raise. And it's an important conversation for us to have with people about. And that's actually one of the things. There's been quite a lot of discussion in a number of workshops, Um, that I've been in about, um how civil union and marriage [00:08:00] are not the same thing and we got second best. And I think that's been quite not confronting to me because I was always very happy with an uncivil union. But, um but, um, you know, um, it has been confronting for a lot of people. They I don't think that people had thought about the fact that the civil Union legislation was second best, that it's not as good. Um, in terms of the status that you have for your relationship as marriage. And, um yeah, and there's a lot more work left to do and yeah, [00:08:30] thanks, John Key, but no thanks. OK, final question. If somebody is listening to this in 30 years time, what would you like to say to them? I hope we made a difference. I hope it's worked out in the 30 years from now. Hope you're having fun. Yeah. Hello. How exciting. I hope that I get to meet you because I'm pretty sure I'll still be here in 30 years time. And, um yeah, that you'll be coming along to a lesbian caucus and I'll be even older. And I might [00:09:00] even get to win the race. We did a queer continuum. Um, in one of our workshops where, you know, the person who came out the longest to ago was at one end, and the person who came out yesterday was at the other and fabulous woman Prue Hyman, um, less famous lesbian Wellington woman. She won that she'd been out 46 years, so, yeah, I could be at the head of the continuum in 30 years time, but I'm not competitive. The full transcription of the recording ends. A list of keywords/tags describing the recording follow. These tags contain the correct spellings of names and places which may have been incorrectly spelt earlier in the document. The tags are seperated by a semi-colon: 2010s ; Asia Pacific Outgames ; Asia Pacific Outgames (2011) ; Fiji ; John Key ; Julie Douglas ; LGBT ; Lesbian Wellington ; Liz Robinson ; Marilyn Waring ; Pacific ; People ; Rob Haultain ; Space ; Stuff ; Wellington ; Wellington Town Hall ; acceptance ; actions ; assumptions ; change ; community ; conference ; conversation ; culture ; difference ; distribution ; diversity ; diversity training ; environment ; fire ; food ; forum ; freedom ; fun ; hope ; human rights ; law ; legislation ; lesbian ; listening ; love ; march ; marriage ; military ; other ; power ; queer ; race ; reclaim ; support ; time ; training ; trans ; unions ; women ; work. The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/apog_julie_douglas.html. The master recording is also archived at the Alexander Turnbull Library in Wellington, New Zealand.  For more details visit their website https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.1089460. Please note that this document may contain errors or omissions - you should always refer back to the original recording to confirm content.