This text file contains detailed information about an audio recording on PrideNZ.com. It includes the following sections: DESCRIPTION, SPEAKERS, SUMMARY, KEY CONTENT TIMESTAMPS [HH:MM:SS], TRANSCRIPT WITH TIMESTAMPS [HH:MM:SS], HUMAN VERIFIED TRANSCRIPT, KEYWORDS, REFERENCES, RELATED CONTENT AND FOOTNOTE. 

## START DESCRIPTION
The title of this recording is "Activists, Allies and Beyond: 40 Years Since Homosexual Law Reform". It is described as: Activists, Allies and Beyond: 40 Years Since Homosexual Law Reform. It was recorded in Te Matapihi ki te Ao Nui (Wellington Central Library) on the 14th June 2026. The duration of the recording is 1 hour and 2 minutes, but this may not reflect the actual length of the event. The content in the recording covers the decades 1890s through to the 2020s.
## END DESCRIPTION

## START SPEAKERS
This is a recording of an event and features the voices of Bill Logan, Gareth Watkins, Kay Jones, Linda Evans, Onjei Bond and Trevor Mallard. These names are spelt correctly, but may appear incorrectly spelt later in the document.
## END SPEAKERS

## START SUMMARY
The recording Activists, Allies and Beyond: 40 Years Since Homosexual Law Reform documents a public event held at Te Matapihi ki te Ao Nui, Wellington Central Library, on 14 June 2026, marking forty years since the passing of homosexual law reform in Aotearoa New Zealand. Hosted by Wellington City Libraries, the event brings together activists, allies, historians and community members to reflect on the long struggle for decriminalisation, the 1985–1986 campaign, and the continuing relevance of rainbow human rights. After an opening welcome, Gareth Watkins introduces the panel and acknowledges the importance of those who fought for change. He places homosexual law reform within a longer history, beginning with the adoption of British law in 1840, which criminalised homosexual activity. He notes how the law became harsher in the 1890s, before organised reform efforts emerged through the Dorian Society in the 1960s, gay liberation in the 1970s, and parliamentary attempts in 1974 and 1979. The successful bill, introduced by Labour MP Fran Wilde in 1985, sought both to decriminalise consensual sex between men and to outlaw discrimination on the grounds of sexuality. Bill Logan recalls encountering law reform ideas as a student in the 1960s, but says fear prevented him from becoming publicly involved at that time. By the early 1980s he was running a communist bookshop in Wellington, working on Gay Switchboard and AIDS-related organising, and helping arrange meetings between Fran Wilde and gay and lesbian constituents. Logan describes life before law reform as deeply deforming, marked by fear, secrecy, self-loathing and the constant risk that being openly gay could damage careers, family relationships and personal safety. Linda Evans speaks from the perspective of lesbian feminism, women’s liberation and broader social justice movements. She connects homosexual law reform with struggles against sexism, compulsory heterosexuality, the Vietnam War, apartheid and attacks on civil liberties. Evans recalls the 1974 Crimes Amendment Bill introduced by Venn Young, and the threat of Gerald Wall’s proposed amendment, which would have outlawed positive information about homosexuality for people under twenty. For Evans, lesbians were deeply affected by male homosexuality being criminalised, even though they were not prosecuted under the same law. Discrimination, loss of child custody, mental health treatment, employment barriers and social stigma all made law reform vital. Trevor Mallard reflects on entering Parliament as a young, straight Labour MP who was closely aligned with Fran Wilde. He describes the legislation as extremely unpopular, rarely polling above thirty percent support, and recalls the abuse directed at supportive MPs and their families. His role was to track where MPs stood, identify undecided votes, and help navigate the parliamentary process. Mallard explains the tactical decision to keep the age of consent at sixteen, even though many MPs would have preferred eighteen or twenty, because equality was central to the bill’s purpose. Onjei Bond offers a younger perspective, explaining that he first learnt about homosexual law reform through queer history research and archival work in Taranaki. Bond discusses New Plymouth Men’s Prison, where men convicted under laws against male homosexual activity were sent from around the country. He sees significance in the fact that the first parliamentary attempt at reform came from Venn Young, the National MP for Egmont, in the same region where many men had been imprisoned. For Bond, learning about homosexual law reform shows that activism can overturn systems that appear permanent. The discussion explores campaign tactics, including public meetings, newspaper advertisements, leafleting, pickets, lobbying and confrontations with anti-reform figures such as Norman Jones and Geoff Braybrooke. Bill Logan recounts a dramatic Lower Hutt meeting where opponents claimed ownership of the hall until supporters quickly collected money to pay for half the meeting and speak in reply. Linda Evans emphasises the importance of lesbian and gay people speaking for themselves, being visible, and naming themselves publicly where possible. Peter Nowland’s audio recordings of actions and meetings are praised as invaluable archival evidence. The panel also honours key figures and communities, including Alison Laurie, Porleen Simmonds, Tighe Instone, Ruth Dyson, Bruce Burnett, Tom McLean, Phil Parkinson, the Topp Twins, and the many people who campaigned, leafleted, wrote letters, challenged misinformation and supported MPs. The AIDS crisis is recognised as a crucial backdrop. Although opponents tried to use HIV/AIDS to increase fear, campaigners argued that open discussion of sexuality and safer sex was essential for public health. In reflecting on the night the bill passed in 1986, the speakers describe nerves, relief, exhaustion, laughter, crying and sorrow that the anti-discrimination provisions were lost and would not be achieved until later. Audience comments link the 1980s campaign to contemporary struggles over trans rights, gender diversity, lesbian politics, Māori experiences, marriage equality and intergenerational change. The event closes with a dedication to rainbow ancestors who never experienced today’s freedoms, to those around the world still denied them, and to everyone continuing the work of queer liberation, solidarity and justice in New Zealand.
## END SUMMARY

## START KEY CONTENT TIMESTAMPS [HH:MM:SS]
The following timestamps note when speakers or events begin in the full transcript: :[00:00:01] Tess Mehonoshen, Wellington City Libraries starts. [00:00:55] MC Gareth Watkins starts. [00:03:30] Brief timeline charting the journey to law reform starts. [00:05:21] Bill Logan starts. [00:07:10] Linda Evans starts. [00:09:40] Trevor Mallard starts. [00:11:42] Onjei Bond starts. [00:13:16] Discussion continues starts. [00:51:50] Audience questions/comments starts. [01:01:40] Closing, Tess Mehonoshen starts.
## END KEY CONTENT TIMESTAMPS [HH:MM:SS]

## START TRANSCRIPT WITH TIMESTAMPS [HH:MM:SS]
Welcome to Te Matapihi, and thank you for joining us today for the celebration of 40 years since homosexual law reform, the activists, allies, and beyond. Um, we're so thrilled to have you here with us. I'm just gonna open with a quick karakia, and then some housekeeping, and I will hand it straight over to our incredible guests, 'cause we've got lots to talk about. Um, so, te matapihi o nuku, te matapihi o rangi. Te tiro whakamuri, hei whakamua. Ki te matapihi. Ki te ao nui. Tihei mauri ora. Um, [00:00:30] so just before we start, we've got in the case of an earthquake, just drop, cover, and hold. If there is a fire evacuation, please use the stairs. Our assembly point is just by, um, Chu's Lane. Uh, if there are any other emergencies, just follow staff instructions. Please remain calm. Uh, yeah, and just let staff know if you have any concerns at all. We have myself, Simon, and Paige in the room with us today. Um, I'll hand it straight over to Gareth. Thank you. Kia ora koutou. My name is Gareth Watkins, and [00:01:00] I'm the founder of prideNZ. com, and that's a website that's been documenting rainbow heritage in Wellington and around New Zealand since 2009. And so I'm gonna be the, uh, uh, MC today, asking, uh, some, um, pretty open-ended questions. Um, we've got a, a stellar, uh, panel today. It's a really significant panel because, um, three of the members are p- were there in the early '80s and, and mid '80s. And I've never said to them this before, but, [00:01:30] um, you know, they really are... You are my heroes, and you made my life better. You made my life deeper and, um, broader for what they did and, and other people during homosexual law reform, so, so thank you. Um, we, we, we have, um, also some younger members of the panel. Um, us to- Yeah, I'm on the youth side. Um, so yeah, I was a teenager back in the '80s, so it didn't, it didn't really occur to me what was happening until kind of 1990s. So, um, it's just such a fantastic [00:02:00] opportunity to hear, uh, from, uh, the people that were there, but also reflections on what actually what it means nowadays. Uh, to begin with, just a couple of acknowledgements. Uh, one is to David Hinley. So, um, David Hinley was photographing in the '80s, and he photographed a lot of the homosexual law reform activities around Wellington. Uh, and it's often David's images that, um, are shown in relation to, uh, homosexual law reform. The other one [00:02:30] is, uh, Jules Top, and, uh, Jules passed away a couple of weeks ago, uh, or, or very recently. And, uh, both Jules and Linda were activists throughout their lives. Uh, this is an image of, uh, Jules and Linda performing in the town hall as part of, uh, homosexual law reform activities. And we have a, a short clip of Jules. Uh, it's a minute long, but it's, uh, it's a, a lovely piece It's not playing, sorry No. No, that's okay. Tech issue. [00:03:00] So sorry. Yeah, tech issue. Um, so i- in this piece, Jules was, um, just talking about, um, the need for taking people forward together, that, that actually together we can achieve a lot of things, and even if you don't agree with somebody, actually taking them forward with you, um, everyone learns and everyone moves forward. And I think a lot of that happened during law reform where different groups, disparate groups, came together and, and for the common aim of, of passing that legislation. [00:03:30] Just one final slide before we start, and this is just giving a bit of context about homosexual law reform in New Zealand. So it was, um, 1840 when we, uh, the country adopted British law, and with that came the criminalization of homosexual activity. So that was 1840. It got, uh, progressively worse in the 1890s, 1910s. Um, and then in 1962, the Dorian Society was formed. Now, that was primarily a, [00:04:00] uh, a social group for gay men in New Zealand, but they had a, a legal subcommittee that looked at law reform. And so from the early '60s, there was a push to, um, to, to have law reform achieved in this country. In 1972, we had the gay liberation movement. Um, a lot of, um, organizations around the country started forming, and started demanding change. They weren't asking for it, they were demanding change. Um, and so there was a real kind of groundswell at the time. 1974, we had the first [00:04:30] parliamentary attempt at law reform. 1979, we had the second parliamentary attempt, and then Fran Wilde's bill in 1985. Fran Wilde's bill, uh, one set out to decriminalize homosexual activity between consenting adults, and the second part was to, uh, remove discriminate, uh, well, make, make it unlawful to discriminate on the grounds of, uh, sexuality. So we'll have some, uh, audience questions at the end, so, um, please have a think [00:05:00] as, as we go through. Um, I've got some, um, written down questions to start off, uh, us off with. Um, and so the first question I'm gonna ask you, whoever's got the microphone, um, briefly introduce yourselves and tell me when did you first get involved in law reform? Was it Fran Wilde or was it earlier than that? Well, um, I, I, I guess that I came across homosexual law [00:05:30] reform activities when I was a student, um, in the 1960s, but didn't... and supported the, the ideas but certainly didn't want to get involved. That would be, have been too threatening. Um, so it wasn't until, um, shortly before the 1984 election, uh, that I had a bookshop, a, a, a little communist bookshop, uh, in, just down the [00:06:00] road here in, what was then Ferrar Street, uh, which was a bit of a gay community center. And I had been involved in the gay switchboard, which was, you know, one of these pre-internet things which allowed people to talk to other, other gay and lesbian people. Uh, and I'd done a lot of work around AIDS, uh, but hadn't been active in, in, in law reform ideas. But Fran sent a message to [00:06:30] me saying would it be possible to organize a meeting between her before the election, uh, and, um, and gay and lesbian constituents. And so we organized that in the gay community center on Bulcott Street here. Um, and we got some sort of commitment out of Fran. So we're then very careful to invite her back immediately after the election and say, "Now, what are you gonna do [00:07:00] about this?" So that, that's how I got involved. And you're Bill, Bill Lincoln. Thank you. Linda Kia ora koutou. My name's Linda Evans. Um, I guess I, um, my involvement was, um, when I was at university as well, um, from the late... '69, uh, being involved in all the, um, foment and movements going on at the time, the peace movement, anti the Vietnam War, the anti-apartheid [00:07:30] movement, all. You know, there were so many things to get involved in and interested in, and all interconnected. And then the beginning of the women's liberation movement was a really exciting time in developing into, um, lesbian feminism, which is where I mostly found a home. Um, and my interest was mainly in changing the world really, abolishing sexism, getting rid of compulsory heter- heterosexuality, you know, generally changing things. And one, and it seemed really crucial, um, [00:08:00] to have some legislative change to make that possible, and one of the key things was, um, decriminalization of homosexual act- acts because it was so, a whole lot of stuff was so tied in with sexism and so on. So, um, that was... But, uh, uh, the first time I really got involved in law reform activity was that first attempt that you mentioned, Gareth, in, um, the 1974 bill. I'd just came back from living in Australia, and there were all these [00:08:30] meetings because Ben Young, um, a National Party MP, introduced a bill, age of consent 21, which was pretty outrageous to gay liberation, who really wanted equality, of course. And, um, but then, um, the labor MP for Porirua, Gerard Wall, uh, he said that he would be introducing an amendment to outlaw any positive information about homosexuality going to under [00:09:00] 20-year-olds. And this, you know, we've seen these things overseas lately too, but, um, this was like, just meant that you couldn't actually be pro-gay, pro-lesbian because this, if, if that passed. So that became equally important to defeat that, and it became quite a big civil liberties thing in the country because, you know, um, book publishers, authors, all kinds of people didn't, teachers, librarians, um, wanted that. So that was kind of my, the first thing that I attended, you know, some [00:09:30] meetings, and there were protests. And in the end that, um, bill failed, and the amendment was never brought forward. Hi, uh, I'm Trevor Mallard, and was a member of Parliament for a very long time. Um, I th- I think I could probably be described as a pretty... in my, in my younger years as a, as a pretty standard, ignorant, straight male. And, um, more, knew more about the T [00:10:00] than I did about the LGB, uh, because my father had taught Carmen at Taumarunui High School. Carmen's name was originally Trevor, although my father says that I wasn't named after Carmen. Um, and, uh, and I'm also just gonna note that we are very much on the site, um, of the Balcony, which was a, a corner of Victoria and Harris Street, so it's probably down that end of this building, [00:10:30] uh, where, uh, which was one of the, uh, the big nightclubs, and a lot of the avant-garde music, um, was mixed in, uh, with the, with the trans strippers, including Georgina Beyer, um, uh, at, at, at the time. Um, I got a bit more education when I worked on the ferries, and I shared a cabin with a trans steward- stewardess. Um, i- it [00:11:00] certainly, certainly, uh, um, it, it, it was, it was different. But it was really only in the late, uh, 1970s and the early 1980s where I became aware even that some of my friends and acquaintances were gay. And, uh, and out of that, the discussions around the legal issues came, um, as I, I had friends who were involved in politics, had a good discussion with Vin Young at one stage. And then, uh, Fran had [00:11:30] told me before the election that which... in which I was first elected, uh, that it was her intention to introduce the bill. And, uh, I got involved, uh, from that point on Kia ora. I'm Onje. I was not involved, uh, in homosexual law reform. However, I learned about it first about, uh, three years ago when I started getting into queer history. Uh, in high school I was all about Stonewall. Uh, it wasn't until really recently actually that I started looking into our own history, uh, and what was there. [00:12:00] But, uh, the most amount that I've learned about homosexual law reform has been through my work, uh, at Taranaki. I've been working with Puke Ariki to create a queer archive. Um, and I did a lot of research into the prison there. New Plymouth Men's Prison was put aside for multiple decades solely for the imprisonment of men, uh, arrested under the Crimes Act, uh, for indecent assault against a male, which included any sort of consensual sex between two adult men. And so I think it's actually a really beautiful, full... And that was men from all over the country were sent all the way to Taranaki. [00:12:30] Um, men from Dunedin, Christchurch, Auckland, Taranaki was where they were put. Um, so I think it's a really beautiful full circle moment that Vin Young, who was the national MP for Egmont, actually, um, proposed that first bill that didn't go through, that the first attempt at homosexual law reform came from Taranaki, where all these men were sent. Yeah. That's fantastic. Um, and we should note as well that Onje does, um, the rainbow tours at Wellington Museum, and to my knowledge, Wellington Museum is the only museum that [00:13:00] has a regular, uh, rainbow tour, which happens every month, which is really, really fantastic. Last Saturday of every month. Come along. I'd love to see you guys. Fantastic. So Bill, d- describe for me, what is it like when the state is against you? Well, um, I guess the, I guess the point is that it's, it's, there's a lot to be afraid of. Uh, and [00:13:30] back then, it was not really possible to be openly gay and have a career. Uh, it was, it was just, um, too scary, and you wouldn't get promoted, a- and so you hid. And most people were in the closet. It was a very rare, courageous man in particular, but lesbian too, uh, who would [00:14:00] be open about their, their, um, their gayness, except to a very narrow circle. Uh, and that fear- Uh, was to an extent, I mean, you, you wouldn't want your parents to know. You wouldn't want anyone to know at all. Uh, and of course, the rate of suicide was very high. The rate of just general self-loathing w- w- was very high. Uh, it was, it was [00:14:30] quite horrible, and to the extent that people hid even from themselves, and hid their consciousness of their, of their sexuality from themselves. So very, very deforming. I think that's the key. Do we know why Fran became the sponsor of this bill? Why, why did Fran want to do this? Well, I, I think she was asked and she made the commitment. I think that was a, you know, that was a, a key part to it. I think there was a growing [00:15:00] awareness, um, in the community generally that it was possible to get a law change. And, and, uh, and Fran, um, you know, Fran was, I don't know how, how, how to describe it. She, she, she, she was distanced, she was personally distanced from the, from the lesbian community and the, and, and, and the gay community, and could sort of stand up and be a champion without, uh, being attacked in the way, uh, that, for [00:15:30] example, Marilyn Waring had been very shortly beforehand. You got to remember, though, that there's also the fact that she came from the most educated electorate in the country, and the most gay, lesbian electorate in the country. And so to ... A- a- and that she ha- that, that the opposition to her usually put up quite socially liberal candidates. [00:16:00] So the, the, the gay lesbian vote was in contention in Wellington Central, and she wanted to nail it, and she did Trevor, why did you join the fight? Uh, I think, I think probably because people asked me to. Um, I mean, I, I, you know, I would've always voted for the bill, uh, as, as it came in. Uh, but I [00:16:30] also, m- I think was recognized even back then as having some skills in that I could count. And that was essentially, that was essentially my job, uh, through the legislation. People remember, it, I mean, it was exceptionally unpopular le- legislation. Never did it poll at more than 30% through it. Um, MPs were being attacked all the time for being supportive. I mean, my... I had a four and then five-year-old daughter, and we kept a whistle by [00:17:00] the ph- in those days, we all had home lines and no answer phones. We kept a whistle by the phone, and when people said rude things on the phone, she'd blow the whistle. And that, you know, that was the... It, it, it, it wasn't nice. So my job was to, my job was to count. I had, I think, over the, over the 18 months or so, uh, probably 150 sheets which had sort of red, green, and yellow, uh, on them, which indicated m- [00:17:30] you know, whe- who was voting for it, who wasn't voting for it, and, and, um, who we had to work on. And, and so, um, it was, it was mainly my job to work out who could be... whose information on MPs' likely votes could be trusted because, um, you know, it won't surprise you to know that some MPs will tell both sides that they're supporting them [00:18:00] Linda, why were you fighting? Well, um, I think one of the things that was really important to recognize is that lesbians were very much affected by both parts. The w- the bill, the Homosexual Law Reform Bill of, um, ni- introduced in 1985 had two parts, and part one was decriminalization of homosexual acts between men, and part two was anti-discrimination measures, and both were really important. Lesbians, [00:18:30] um, had been affected, um, by male homosexual- homosexuality being illegal because many people didn't even realize lesbians weren't. Um, they, and l- we suffered from the same kinds of discrimination that men did. We didn't go to prison, of course. We weren't prosecuted and, and go to prison, but, um, we certainly, um, went through forced, um, mental health treatment, um, same as gay men. Um, certainly in [00:19:00] other parts of the justice system, lesbians were badly treated. Accommodation, um, lesbians had, um, a lot of trouble keeping custody of their children if they had children before they came out. Um, so there were plenty of ways that lesbians were affected by this, um, legislation. Also, you know, we'd had by then, um, m- like, what was it, 12, 13 years since we really strongly started organizing, um, as gay [00:19:30] liberation and lesbian feminism. And so being proud about who we were, being out about who we were, you know, despite the difficulties, was a really big part of that we wanted to be part of the campaign and to fight it, um, partly on our terms. What about you, Bill? Well, um, I, I guess it was mostly a matter of self-respect. Um, I didn't come out until I was about [00:20:00] 30. When I told my mum that I was gay, her immediate reaction was, "Well, you better get the law changed, hadn't you?" Um, which was simply a, a, a, a, a reflex of, of, of someone who had lived a relatively respectable life and, and, and, and, and wanted me to have the opportunities that you have from respectability, I think. Um, but it, it, it, it did talk to the fact that, um, the, the law was [00:20:30] terribly closely associated with social acceptance. And in fact, the change in the law wasn't probably nearly as important in and of itself as this battle about social acceptance and the cultural change which occurred through those 16 months of, of, of social struggle, of, of, of, of, um, um, argument in the press, and on the streets, and in the pubs, and around families, and people coming out, and that, that [00:21:00] whole process of cultural turmoil which changed attitudes. Um, and the, the law change was simply a, a symbolic thing, uh, that, that, that crystallized or was, that that argument was around. But it was, it, it was actually the cultural change, uh, which allowed us to hold ourselves in, i- in, in, in, yeah, in self-respect. Agnelle, [00:21:30] when you, when you came across homosexual law reform- What did you think? Because this went on for 16 months. There was some vile stuff said. I mean, for me, it's, it was like another country. What, what did you think? I mean, it just felt like it was the dark ages seeing all those sorts of shots, you know, like Norman Jones, that sort of stuff. Just a really quick tangent. About two weeks, well, maybe a month ago, I got, re- a photo of me got posted on NZ First Facebook account, and going through those comments, it felt like a [00:22:00] portal back to what you guys were hearing and what was happening, because it was the exact same stuff that I had never heard said to me online or in person ever in my entire life, but it's the exact same dialogue that was getting said in all of the videos, all the audio that I've seen about homosexual law reform. You know, all the, you know, the moralizing of it, the... So yeah, I'd say that it is amazing how far we have come and how far some people haven't. But also, I think learning about homosexual law [00:22:30] reform really gave me an awareness that it is possible with activism to fight things that seem entirely impossible to fight, that seem like they've been enshrined in law for decades, that seem like it's impossible to go forward, that, like, it can be done, and it has been done, and we will keep doing it, you know? Yeah. Absolutely. Let's move on to tactics. And there's a lovely image here, uh, of Norman Jones. [00:23:00] Bill is up here as well, Jeff Braybrook, and I'm not sure who the other chap is. Uh, perhaps, Bill, you could tell us about that moment, and then we'll throw it open to the rest of the panel in terms of what, what were the tactics you most remember about the time? Yeah, that was a meeting, um, by the, the anti- anti-change folk. Uh, it was, it was, it was, uh, in, in, um, the Knox Church hall in Lower Hutt, [00:23:30] and they organized this big meeting against us. And of course, we went along, and they started saying really nasty, really, really evil shit. Uh, and, um, of course, there was a spontaneous, uh, reaction against it. And Norman Jones said, "This is our meeting, not yours. You've gotta shut up. We've paid for this, unless you wanna pay $150," or whatever it was, [00:24:00] um, "to pay for half the hall." Well, done. A- a- and, um, we collected the money immediately. I didn't have any money on me. Um, but, but it was a nice piece of theater with everyone bringing up little bits of money and putting it in a... collecting it in a coat and counting it out, and buying the meeting. People did carry cash. Yeah. In those days, people had cash. And so Alison, A- Alison Laurie, who i- is, is, is one of the great heroes of, of the whole [00:24:30] campaign, um, a- a- and I both spoke. And, and this is, this is kind of at that... I think that's where m- I'm saying, "Done," probably. Um, but, um, yeah, it was a fun meeting. One of the other things that we should point out is there are a coup- a couple of microphones, uh, in the shot, and one of those people would be Peter Noland. And Peter was amazing. Still, he's still around in Auckland. Um, but he went around and recorded a [00:25:00] lot of these actions, and the actuality from the time is just stunning. And it's, uh, um, Peter is one person that really inspired me to go on and do audio recording for Pride NZ. Um, and, uh, one man with a microphone, it's just amazing, preserved forever. Especially if you're prepared to be just very quiet and just do that. Yeah. It was ... Um, we all got thrown out, but he didn't. How about you, Linda? What, what were some kind of [00:25:30] tactics that you remember? Um, well, I think going back, picking up again what I mentioned briefly before, that whole thing about being ourselves and being out, and not having other people speak for us. I mean, it became important, um, it became clear it was really important to, um, have allies and to have ways that, um, uh, groups that supported us, and all the other groups we personally were part of too, could speak out. Um, but we also had to take the lead on [00:26:00] that, and we had to be out. We had to be, you know, gay, lesbian, we'd probably say queer now. We had to be as out as possible. And I think that was, that, it came through in many different situations, and one of them was going to the meetings, um, and confronting. And then those situations, so that eventually they did stop having them, or they may well have continued having them, but they didn't publicly advertise them. Um, and I think, um, yeah, [00:26:30] another version of that was when we had a, um, lesbian and gay rights week in April. One of the things that the lesbian coalition, which I was part of, organized, was advertisements in the paper saying who supported the bill, so that any supporters could put their names in. But we had a column for people who were able to be out, and not everyone could 'cause of work in particular, um, but also 'cause of families and that. But so that we said, "We lesbians and gay men support this bill." And so that was a, [00:27:00] something we borrowed, um, in a way. I mean, plenty of people do that kind of thing, but just identifying yourself as someone who does something that's either illegal or frowned upon, um, was a borrowing from, um, French feminists who did the same thing, um, when they were campaigning for abortion, and women who'd had abortions said it. Uh, and, and a, a lesbian who's, uh, part of the coalition, um, who had been spending, living in France for a while, she [00:27:30] brought that back with her. So there was lots of, you know, input into the different tactics. And Trevor, what about tactics in Parliament? I mean, I'm aware of people like Norman Jones and Geoff Braybrook. They, at every chance, they would talk about anal intercourse. Sodomy. Sodomy, yes. W- was there any other... W- what were some of the other tactics in Parliament? Well, I mean, I, I, I mean, I'll re- r- react to that, that first, and I thought the, the best comeback to that was, um, [00:28:00] was Trevor de Cleene who said- That's fine, as long as they don't make it compulsory. And, and that, and that sort of, that brought an element of humor, uh, to, to the place. Uh, and, and Trevor was also responsible for making it absolutely clear, um, that the law on anal intercourse was not, um, gendered. So that was, you know, [00:28:30] that was something that not a lot of people focused on. Um, but, but that, you know, that was a For me, probably the biggest parliamentary tactics issue question was when, uh, Fran and a relatively small group of us ... Now, I'll go back one step. The majority of the Parliament were easily in favor of the change if it was at 18 or 20. The majority of the Parliament [00:29:00] was against a change at 16 And what we had to do at, um, or their first choice, you know, was certainly for 18, 20 or no change. And there were two sets of amendments to increase the age from bill that was introduced to 16 and 18. And one of the hardest decisions we made, and one of the hardest things that we did, was to join [00:29:30] Jones and Lee and Braybrook and Wa- Wall and others in the lobbies to vote down the amendments because both the anti-change people and the equality people, uh, wanted the bill to be in its most radical form at the point it came to the final vote. 'Cause both of us, all of us knew that, you know, it was gonna be very, very close, uh, at the time. [00:30:00] The... I mean, the one other tactical thing was that, uh, my numbers at the end told me that we were going to win by three on the, on the third reading of the bill. Um, but we'd had two National Party people, uh, tell us that, uh, that there'd be, that, that someone else was coming that, you know, that wasn't prepared to identify. And that person in the end was a, uh, a guy called Ian McLean from up [00:30:30] in the Rotorua area, and he was a, he was a surprise vote for the bill. The other tactical question we had, and I was in the, in the, in, in the Ayes lobby at the time, was that there were two relatively, um, senior National Party opposition MPs, who both became very prominent in their later careers, who had gay brothers, and who said that, "For our family's sake, this bill is not going to fail." They'd made [00:31:00] commitments to vote against it, but they were prepared to essentially break their word and go the other way, uh, if, if they were needed. So they waited down the far end of the corridor, you know, we'd talked about this, until they got the wave that we'd actually had the numbers, and then they went and voted against it. So that was a, you know, an interesting, you know, um- I mean, uh, I don't know what I think about them. They were there to, they were there if needed, [00:31:30] and that was really good. Um, but their personal views and beliefs and the commitments that we made weren't those consistent with loving their brother- Mm ... in both cases. 'Cause it is really important to think of all of these attempts, including the successful one, as private members bills. Mm. And therefore, supposedly people could vote with their conscience. Yeah. Um, al- equally it meant for those of us supporting the legislation, we had to work quite hard to support [00:32:00] MPs in their electorates. Mm. 'Cause even quite pro MPs wanted us to do things that showed they had support in their electorates. Mm. So kind of the whole tone of the campaign was, um, determined in a way by it being private members bills, wasn't it? The support campaign. Oh, oh, y- uh, no. Z- I mean, it, it certainly was. It was, um, you know, people from... I mean, it wasn't even between the two major parties, but it was, it was, um, you know, it was obviously more [00:32:30] Labor than National and, and, and, and, and the other way around. And you know, I was a, I was a marginal seat MP. Um, you know, all the, all the indications were that it would be adverse. Um, but, but, and, and there were... And actually if you look at the marginality of the supporters, it, you know, they, they were much more marginal seats than others. But, um, in the end it just, it, it, it, it was so important to get [00:33:00] it there because we knew that it would take at least another decade, if not longer, to get there if it, if it, if it wasn't passed. Yeah, it would've been disaster if it hadn't been passed, um, because the, the defeat would have pushed th- it wouldn't have just stayed where it was. There would've been a, a reactionary move, a, a, a tightening up, a greater enforcement of the law and, um, a, a, a reinforcement of the fears which were conditioning our lives. It would've been, you know, [00:33:30] really bad. And it would've been very difficult to run public health campaigns around HIV AIDS- Yeah ... without it. That was kind of one of the other backdrops that was so important. It, it was exactly the same timing. Yeah. I mean, it is rather mad to run a homosexual law reform campaign at the height of an AIDS panic. Uh, but it worked. Uh, and, and, and, and, and the, the, their attempt to use AIDS [00:34:00] against us rebounded on them because we were able to say, "Well look, if you think about it-" The possibility of talking openly about gayness and sex and your own sexual practices is a precondition for decent discussion about how you stop AIDS spreading. Uh, and, and we, we managed to do that, but sometimes it hung in the balance in a, in a very difficult way Today [00:34:30] also gives us an opportunity to pay tribute to either people that aren't in the room or are no longer with us. And I was just gonna ask the panelists, starting with you, Wanya, NJ, sorry. Um, uh, is there anyone that you would like to pay tribute to in relation to law reform and, uh, what you know about law reform? I mean, I'm not gonna pick a specific individual just because, but also I would really love to shout out to all the men in New Plymouth Men's Prison who inc- saw just the absolute [00:35:00] worst of this, who got put in cells that were an arm's, an arm's width of size, who were forced to do hard labor for decades, um, some who died in prison. Uh, this was obviously way before homosexual law reform- Mm ... but that was the, some of the people who suffered quite a lot because of it. But yeah. Mm. Um, I mean, it, because it's, it's topical, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna thank the Tops. Um, I mean, they, they did [00:35:30] manage to bring humor to the campaign. I was lucky in the summer of '85, '86, we had a tour, uh, round the Wai- I lived in the Waikato, Waikato and Coromandel, which was actually more building support for the anti-nuclear movement. Um, but you know, this, this was overhanging and, and, and there were, you know, the beach concerts, maybe 15 of them around over, over about a, uh, a week-long period. Uh, and, and they were fantastic. Afterwards, [00:36:00] um, uh, they came, Annette King and I were involved in the, uh, Peter Garrett was involved in it, um, for part of it. And afterwards, uh, they came to Wellington, and Annette and I took them to Bella Mia to lunch. And in those days, because Parliament was smaller, you could sit down the back, um, if you were a guest. And, and they, uh, Annette and I decided to take them down for the house at half past two as it was then, and, uh, and so they could sit down the back. And the [00:36:30] messengers, as they went to go in, said to them, "Gentlemen, you're required to wear a tie." And you could, you, you could hear them laughing all the way around the building. But then the, uh, the fact that they had been there, it just sent, especially Norm Jones, right off. Mm. It was, it was, it was worth it just to see him so unhappy. Not that I'm nasty really, but you know. [00:37:00] Um, there's so many people, you know, especially of all the people who were there at all the meetings and in the many organizations, um, and in particular, the men who later died, you know, soon, some of them quite soon from HIV/AIDS. Um, but I guess the- I'd like to just pick out a couple of, um, lesbians that I worked with closely during the time, and the main one is, as Phil referred to Alison Laurie, who was my partner at the time, who was just a real- Powerhouse. But [00:37:30] same as Bill, took time off work. Um, didn't work, you know, didn't earn money. Um, just campaigned, you know- Mm ... a lot of the time, which a number of people did. And, um, uh, you know, she had connections way back from, from her young days in the communities back to the early '60s. She had overseas connections from being overs- living overseas. She had worked with Labor Party women, so she had connections in the party, and she just, um, did a great job as a, um, lesbian organizer [00:38:00] and one of the, um, spokespeople for the Gay Task Force. Um, then another person who was much, um, uh, organized herself much more quietly was Pauline Simmons, who'd been there- Mm since the beginning of lesbian groups in New Zealand. Um, and a feminist and totally, totally committed to the age of consent six- uh, of 16. Um, then the other person, so Alison and Pauline have both died, but the other person who, who very much still alive is Tiki Instone, who was a really big personality during [00:38:30] the, um, campaign and, um, very out there and was one of the, um, um, founders of the coalition in support of the bill, which brought in unions and a lot of other, and feminist organizations. So that was really important. And who often attended events dressed in her alter e- as one of her many alter egos. One of them called Cynthia Bagwash dressed in evening wear, um, of a much earlier period. And when- Fox fur ... and a fox fur. [00:39:00] And when we had a, um, action at the Human Rights Commission just a couple of years before the campaign, the Human Rights Commission general secretary didn't want to deal with us all sit- all there in our work clothes in our lunchtime, but he spoke exclusively to Cynthia Bagwash. We always enjoyed that, that this fictional character with a very strange, you know, upper class accent and a fox fur had all the credibility at the Human Rights Commission at the time. Anyway, so [00:39:30] those are, um... There's so many people though. There's just so many people who did wonderful things, brave things, you know, small actions in their sphere of influence. Can I? Sorry. The, the, there's, there's one person who I, who it's really just come to me that I think we should acknowledge, uh, and that's Ruth Dyson. Ruth, Ruth, um, gave up her job in Christchurch. She came, she lived at, Fran was a solo mother. She lived at her place, took basically primary [00:40:00] responsibility for the two kids, who I think was both still at primary school at that stage, and then worked, um, during the daytime while the kids were at school on the campaign, and was very, very good at getting people organized. But she worked for over a year on a voluntary basis, um, sort of full-time between those two roles, and I think, um, it, um, or some of us would argue about Fran's sanity through the process. She got, she, you know, she, [00:40:30] she, she'd, um, she'd get very, very wound up, but she was a, she had a really good leavening effect on Fran and, and, and helped in that way. There's a lovely photo on the screen at the moment of yourself, Fran, and Ruth, I think. Is that on the night that the bill went past? That, that's a night, a- and I've for- and I've forgotten what the name of the gay nightclub that was in- Yeah ... Oriental Bay- The Victoria Club ... that was in the White House. The Victoria Club. Mm. Yeah, that, that, that's where at least one of the celebrations [00:41:00] occurred. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but I think it, I think it's fair to say that there was a, um, a lot of laughing and crying that night. Mm. There was, in about equal measures. Mm. No, that was a pretty wonderful night, of course, having had a victory like that. You don't get many, many victories quite as clear-cut as that, and it was a, a, a, an amazing, amazing sort of, uh, moment. I, yeah, that bunch of women that, that, uh, Linda [00:41:30] talked about, uh, were really amazing to work with. Um, and Alison particularly and I would, um, we would argue a lot, uh, but, um, and we wouldn't necessarily agree all the time, uh, at the end of our arguments, but we had an extremely valuable working relationship, which is actually something I, I, I remember as one of the highlights of my, of, of political [00:42:00] activity in a, in a life which has done a lot of, of, uh, street-level political activity. Um- I guess that the backdrop of AIDS was extremely important. Uh, Bruce Burnett, um, who died very early on in the campaign actually, but his contribution before he died in getting it through to [00:42:30] AIDS activists, the importance of this law reform, actually probably had a critical impact on the outcome. Um, and so, yeah, I, I remember him primarily as an AIDS activist and s- and, and, and s- and putting together the apparatus which carried the gay male community through, uh, that. Uh, and he, he was a good, a good friend. But that political [00:43:00] contribution isn't usually noticed because it happened, uh, behind closed doors, but I think it was a, a hugely important one. Um, and in the same campaign, and really representative of many, many other people, there was a fellow called Tommy McLean, uh, who, uh, was, uh, a funny little Scotsman who, uh, was working all the time, leafleting and [00:43:30] collecting signatures and activating, uh, right through the winter of, of 1985. Um, now, and, and, and into 80- uh, '86 of course. And he contracted HIV and died a, a year or so afterwards. Um, and paid a ... You know, he, he put a huge amount into it. But it's, it's ... He, he, he represented [00:44:00] Passion which spread right through our communities where people would get together to write letters, get together to leaflet, get together to, um, uh, attack meetings of the opposition, get together to picket Salvation Army weekly whatever they do. So, um, a- a- and, and this, this, this passionate community activism [00:44:30] by hundreds of people, uh, which Tommy, I think, represents quite nicely. Thank you. So I have one final question, uh, before we have hopefully, uh, some time for questions. We might run a little over if that's slightly couple minutes over. Yep. Oh, that's good. Thumbs up. Um, so my final question to you all is how did homosexual law reform change you? I guess it made [00:45:00] me realize how important it is to be a difficult person, and how important it is to work with other difficult people Yeah. You gotta, you, you, you can't allow yourself to fit too easily Um, are you looking at me 'cause I'm another difficult person? I would never say that. Um, I think, uh, [00:45:30] I, I think while I knew that there was a lot of hostility to, um, lesbians and to gay men, um, having to kind of constantly confront the depths of it, not o- And there was both the depths of, you know, the opposition, but the fact that other people who might have been people, you know, we loved and cared about could be manipulated by misinformation into sharing in that hostility, into signing petitions against us, [00:46:00] into, into thinking we were all a danger to children. You know, it... that was... it was y- really confronting to have to come to terms with that on such a big scale, which was, in a way, kind of why we re- had to react with both anger and the humor that, um, Trevor mentioned because that became a really important thing for us to hook into from our, the co- you know, the sort of old cultures, that there's always been this camp humor, lesbian humor, things that we [00:46:30] can use in these situations. But, um, having to deal with that, you know, realize that that hostility was there and could be stirred up, um, was, was quite, um, confronting I, I think for me it's probably in, in two ways. One was it, it, it did hone my personal skills as a politician. Hmm. You know, around numbers, uh, and around how the process worked. And, [00:47:00] um, I was responsible for closing down the select committee, uh, because the, uh, opponents, uh, wanted to stretch it out, uh, so that it became an election year issue. And I very undeme- undemocratically sort of led the select committee not to do that so we could get it out of the way in 1986 and not have it the, uh, uh, in 1987. But I'd probably criticize myself now if I thought about it carefully, um, 'cause [00:47:30] it's a parliamentary ... in a political or in a parliamentary sense, it's a very bad thing to do. But for, um, for me, it's just been a rich- richness of understanding the diversity of New Zealand. That was what the process did for me. And, and, uh, uh, and, and I think it made me a better person I think the, um, impact that homosexual law reform had on my life is just completely unmeasurable. And I think for all the [00:48:00] people of my generation, uh, you know, we still obviously have to deal with homophobia and transphobia in certain ways, in certain places, but just that's what gets me whenever I get into all the research, and I read any of this, it's just how huge it was, how almost, it almost even felt like universal. Um, whereas now, I think-- I'm just thinking about the definitions of woman and man bill, which the protest was for yesterday, and which submissions are open, by the way. Um, we are arguing against something that's coming in, [00:48:30] rather than something that has been there solid for decades. It's a completely different, you know, playing field, and it's a completely different emotion and experience. And I think that homosexual law reform has just so much to do with what we are able to do now, undoubtedly One final question. Yeah. Um, I haven't said that before. Um, what was it like on the night that it passed? Can you describe what that feeling was like? [00:49:00] Well, for me in the early part of the night, it was a state of extreme nerves because I knew that there was an entire community were relying on the numbers, uh, which could flick really easily. You know? People not turn up, um, people change their minds, and, and as I said, it was, it was three. So first of all, it was nerves, and then relief, and then I think it's, [00:49:30] I think I said before, we, we both laughed and cried the night away, uh, because it had been such a, an important part of our lives for that year. I don't know if you remember, Trevor, you came into the Victoria Club, and I threw my arms around you, and you, you were visibly shocked. You hadn't quite expected quite such a, an enthusiastic response. No. N- no, I hadn't. [00:50:00] Um- ... um, I, I knew people would be happy, and- ... but I also knew there was a history. You know? Yeah. There's a history there. Yeah. I mean, the history for me actually went back to 1972 with David Shand- Mm ... who was a gay candidate for Wellington Central who was elected to the Parliament, um, on the night, and then lost on, uh, on the special vote. Mm. So he was part of the group that elected the Kirk [00:50:30] Cabinet. Mm. Um, and, um, and actually there's a whole pile of history 'cause he was a very good economist and government accountant, and Roger Douglas would never have happened if that event hadn't been overturned. Mm. Lynne? Um, uh, exhaustion was one of the prime things. It was really... Um, I mean, I hadn't had to keep going in quite the same way that you had counting numbers. But, um, also just an incredible sense of relief. 'Cause [00:51:00] to my mind, um, if we had not defeated that movement against the Homosexual Law Reform Bill, then we would be a lot worse off. So that was kind of like a defeat of that kind of moral religious right in New Zealand, and it was good to do it fairly early on in the piece. It was clear that they were interested in moving on to other issues that, um, mainly w- ones that primarily affected women, um, abortion in particular, but other things as well. And I [00:51:30] just felt like to defeat that, that religious right wing early on in the piece- Mm. ... was really, really important. Mm. Thank you. Thank you all. We do have, um- Oh, and sorrow. Can I just say- Oh, yes ... though there was sorrow th- about the loss of Part Two, 'cause that would take us another seven years- Mm ... to get the anti-discrimination stuff. Thank you. We do have a couple of minutes for questions or memories. Some short questions, short memories. Um, just raise your hand and we'll pass a mic [00:52:00] to you. I think we've, we've got Kay over here. Kia ora. I'm Kay Jones, and really quick comment then a question. The quick comment is the thanks to Phil Parkinson of the National Gay Task Force for doing such wonderful behind the scenes research and supporting the team. So not everybody knows his name, but it's, you know, that whole thing. Archives and research are vitally important Now the question which is a little bit more tricky, I love all the work [00:52:30] that all the people did for the campaigns then, but as we've already mentioned, we had a march and rally yesterday about a bill that is basically attacking gender minorities communities. And I have concerns and sadness about the numbers of lesbian activists who were involved in supporting homosexual law reform who are now on the other side standing with right-wing religious people. And, and like, [00:53:00] this, as I say, it saddens me, and I'm just wondering how can we try and bridge that gap? What is there that has... I don't know if it's turning people to that. Is there some way that we can actually bring people back to see that this is a human rights issue and this is about, you know, um, doing all those things that homosexual law reform was, was, uh- uh, about too, you know? Anyway, any thoughts on how we can bridge that gap and bring people [00:53:30] back in, particularly older lesbian activists? Well, I saw Disclosure Day last night. Great movie, by the way. Um, oh my, I don't want... I- I can't tell you how it ends, but oh my God, that was... I was gonna say, I- I- I think bringing people together and talking and not- not immediately canceling people, I think as Jules Top would've said if we'd played that audio, that actually you need to bring people with you. Um, and people change over time. [00:54:00] I- I- I think that's, you know, we just have to acknowledge that people- people's views do change over time, don't they? Um, I don't agree with this bill because I don't think it's good for women as much as, you know, any other, uh, communities. So I think, um, but I do think that in the LGBTQ, um, sort of, uh, combination of communities, there has not been a lot of respect shown for lesbians and lesbian politics and the kinds of, um, [00:54:30] uh, issues that have been really important to lesbians over the years. And I think had that happened, then there could have been much more of a way to find room for each other, or I hope that anyway, because I just feel like that, um, it- it's been much harder to discuss things than it used to be, and I'm not saying it was necessarily easy at the past, in the past But, um, the fact that there's kind of no room. I [00:55:00] mean, I guess what happened during this period we've been talking about is a whole lot of people who didn't necessarily agree with each other, or who had, you know, some disagreements and some agreements, managed to somehow come together because we were under attack, under a pretty, pretty, um, destructive attack. So, uh, um, it's hard to know what you can do when you're not, when that atmosphere isn't quite the same. But I do think it's important to work out ways that people can coexist. [00:55:30] I'm genuinely curious, how can we as ... you know, show respect to the, the lesbian community, which has done obviously so much for homosexual law reform. How can that happen? Like, what does that look like? I'm, I'm just wondering. Well, it's something I would have to have think about a bit more. Mm. But, um, but I do, I do think, um, that lesbians early on became a target, and were an easy target, because they were not really [00:56:00] well-supported. And so I would like to kind of almost dismantle things and go back to the beginning of that and work out how to discuss things better. Mm. Yes, it, it does seem to me that lesbians can become a target. It's also clear to me that trans folk are a target, and perhaps a more immediate target in the present environment. Um, I think that one of the lessons of [00:56:30] homosexual law reform is that we must unite around the most vulnerable. We stood out for 16. There were a lot of older people who thought that that was wrong, and we should dilute that and forget it, and not look after our youngest people. That would have been a crime. I think that the queer communities right [00:57:00] now have a responsibility to look after their most vulnerable, and I think, in my work as a counselor anyway, I see the most vulnerable people as being young trans folk Thank you. Are there any other questions or comments? Oh, yes. Uh, uh, let's go back first and then mine Thank you very much for saying right at the very beginning [00:57:30] that one of the things that has happened in the past is that we've worked together even when we disagree with each other. And I think that has been one of the fabulous things about the rainbow communities, that we know that there's things where we disagree, and we know where we can unite. And, um, so I would like lesbian groups who disagree with other parts or other [00:58:00] communities within the rema- rainbow communities to be allowed to join in on rainbow communities events rather than being barred. And I think that's, then gives us the ch- opportunity to talk about our differences and think about our differences and listen to each other. So, um, I've always... Alison and I used to argue all the time, [00:58:30] and it was great, and I'd like there to be more of that going on now. But thanks for pointing that out. Thank you. And just at the front here. Uh, kia ora tātou. One of my things was, there are several things, is that in a march, my sister went on the anti-homosexual law reform. My brother walked beside [00:59:00] her and said, "Who looked after us when we were teenagers and our parents weren't there? Who looked after us? Who brought food to our schools?" And she pulled out of the march. Now, the next thing that happened on that is people, Māori did not always believe in homosexual law reform. When we used to take bodies back that had died, and we had trans people and gay people, they would always say, [00:59:30] "No, it wasn't AIDS." Not the, the people, "It's cancer." That, and we would say, "Well, you've got all these queens taking the body on. Do you think there might be something here?" The other thing on that was when the marriage, uh, thing came up, my sister said to me, "We love both you and Bill, but why do you want to get married? You already have civil union." And [01:00:00] I said, "If we don't get married, or if we do get married, I will stop, um, going against straight people who are married." And when my sister got married, she asked Bill to marry her, and I was to take her down the aisle. So she had a complete change. Whenever we have a family thing, you better be bringing Bill with you, otherwise stay at home.[01:00:30] Kia ora tātou. Kia ora. Kia ora. Well, I think it's probably, uh, about time to wrap up. Uh, there was one small thing that I would love to do, uh, which is, uh... And I'd love to s- hopefully, uh, you would join with me in doing a dedication of today. Because I think for me, it's incredibly special to have these people in the room, um, really super, and really super significant. Um, and I, I just wanted to do a, a [01:01:00] dedication to all of the rainbow ancestors who never got to experience today. Mm. Uh, that never got to experience the freedoms we have today, and the freedoms that they and their allies fought for. And also to dedicate it to the rainbow people around the world that still don't have these freedoms. Um, and to dedicate it to you all, because we actually all need to get on. We all need to do the work together, um, and there's a lot of work to do. So thank you so much for coming. Um, thank you to the panelists. [01:01:30] Uh, a huge round of applause. Thanks. And, and I'm just gonna say I look forward to the repeat in another decade. Uh, just like to say on behalf of the library, thank you all so much for sharing your memories, your experiences, your thoughts. Um, it's incredibly valuable, and we really appreciate it. Um, and we're thrilled to have you here and, um, thrilled to celebrate this anniversary with you [01:02:00] at Matapihi. Um, and thank you Gareth for all the extra work you've put into this event. It's really special. Um, I just close with a karakia. Um, Kia tau rangimarie. Ki runga i a tātou katoa. Ao te po, po te ao. Haumi e, hui e, tāiki e! Kia ora.
## END TRANSCRIPT WITH TIMESTAMPS [HH:MM:SS]

## START HUMAN VERIFIED TRANSCRIPT
# none
## END HUMAN VERIFIED TRANSCRIPT

## START KEYWORDS
1890s, 1910s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, 2020s, AIDS, Alison Laurie, Annette King, Aotearoa New Zealand, Auckland, Australia, Bruce Burnett, Carmen Rupe, Christchurch, Crimes Amendment Bill (1974 -  Venn Young), Crimes Amendment Bill (1979 -  Warren Freer Bill), Cynthia Bagwash, David, David Hindley, Dorian Society, Dunedin, Events, Fran Wilde, France, Gareth Watkins, Gay Task Force, Geoff Braybrooke, Georgina Beyer, Gerald Wall, God, HIV / AIDS, Harris Street, Homosexual Law Reform, Human Rights Commission, Ian McLean, Job, Kay Jones, Knox Church Hall, Lesbian Coalition, Linda Evans, Lower Hutt, Marilyn Waring, Member of Parliament, National Party, New Plymouth, New Plymouth Prison, New Zealand First, Norman Jones, Older People, Onjei Bond, Parliament buildings, Pat Downey, People, Phil Parkinson, Porirua, Porleen Simmonds, Puke Ariki Museum and Libraries, Roger Douglas, Rotorua, Ruth Dyson, Salvation Army, Stuff, Taranaki, Taumarunui, Te Matapihi ki te Ao Nui (Wellington Central Library), The Balcony / Le Balcon, The Closet, Trevor Mallard, Trevor de Cleene, Venn Young, Victoria Club, Vietnam, Vietnam War, Waikato, Warren Freer, Wellington, Wellington Museum, Youth, abortion, acceptance, actions, activism, activities, age of consent, allies, ancestors, anger, archives, army, assault, attack, audience, balance, building, camp, campaigns, cancer, career, celebration, change, children, choice, church, civil liberties, class, closet, coming out, community, concerts, connections, consensual sex, consent, coup, courageous, crime, crying, disclosure, discrimination, diversity, earthquake, economist, education, election, environment, equality, family, fear, feminism, ferry, fire, food, french, friends, fun, gay, gay liberation movement, gender, government, health, heritage, history, home, homophobia, homosexual, homosexual law reform, homosexual law reform petition, hope, hui, human rights, imprisonment, indecent assault, individual, justice, karakia, knowledge, law, leafleting, legislation, lesbian, lesbian feminism, lesbian politics, liberation, library, loss, love, march, marriage, meetings, mental health, misinformation, movement, music, newspapers, nightclub, opportunity, other, parents, parties, passing, passion, peace, period, politics, primary school, prison, protest, public health, queer, rainbow, rally, reading, research, respect, salvationist, school, seat, select committee, sex, sexism, sexuality, social, sodomy, steward, straight, struggle, student, suicide, support, tactics, the other side, time, top, trans, transgender, transphobia, understanding, unions, university, upper class, vote, website, women, women's liberation movement, work, yellow.
## END KEYWORDS

## START REFERENCES
The original recording can be heard at this website https://www.pridenz.com/activists_allies_and_beyond_40_years_since_homosexual_law_reform.html.
## END REFERENCES

## START RELATED CONTENT
# none
## END RELATED CONTENT

## START FOOTNOTE
Generated 2026-07-09T15:14:33+12:00.
## END FOOTNOTE