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| irn | 8102 |
| master_filename | 001049_MIX_des_smith_and_john_jolliff.wav |
| master_md5 | 0D7E8A90858073D2D456EFE4655939C4 |
| master_duration | 15:35 |
| master_sample_rate | 44.1 kHz |
| master_bit_depth | 16 bit |
| master_channels | 1 |
| media_reference | 001049 |
| media_source | PrideNZ.com |
| copyright_position | In copyright |
| copyright_ownership | Gareth Watkins (PrideNZ.com) |
| copyright_ownership_note | |
| submitted_to_nlnz | |
| public_url | https://www.pridenz.com/out_in_the_city_2026_des_smith_and_john_jolliff.html |
| meta_url | https://www.pridenz.com/data/media/meta/8102.html |
| plain_text_url | https://www.pridenz.com/plaintext/out_in_the_city_2026_des_smith_and_john_jolliff.txt |
| production_date | 15-03-2026 |
| production_day | 15 |
| production_month | 03 |
| production_year | 2026 |
| recording_type | Interview |
| series | Wellington Pride Festival 2026 |
| sub_series | |
| title | Des Smith and John Jolliff - Out in the City 2026 |
| description | The 2026 Wellington Pride Festival paid tribute to two veteran activists, Des Smith and John Jolliff. Des Smith was one of the organisers of the first Lesbian and Gay Fair. The fair has continued under various names for 40 years. Des and John were also the first couple to enter into a civil union, receiving certificate number 1 in the early 2000s, and they later married after marriage equality legislation passed in 2013. The couple were named Grand Marshals at the Wellington Pride Parade on 7 March 2026 and also spoke at Out in the Square on 15 March 2026, on the same date as the first Lesbian and Gay Fair in 1986. |
| summary_computer_generated | The recording captures a lively interview with two long-time Wellington activists during the Out in the City Pride celebration held at Odlins Plaza on 15 March 2026. The conversation reflects on forty years of LGBTQ+ activism in Aotearoa New Zealand, beginning with the first Lesbian and Gay Fair in 1986 and continuing through to the vibrant Pride events of the 2020s. Through humour, reflection and personal storytelling, Des Smith and John Jolliff describe how community visibility, courage and collective effort helped transform social attitudes towards the rainbow community. The interview begins by recalling the historic first Lesbian and Gay Fair, organised during the campaign for homosexual law reform. Held in the hall of Newtown School in Wellington, the event was deliberately staged in a neighbourhood known for its diverse and supportive population. Des Smith explains that one of the key motivations was visibility. At a time when homosexuality between men was still criminalised in New Zealand, simply organising a public event celebrating the lesbian and gay community was considered a bold and potentially risky action. Securing the venue itself was not straightforward. A supportive local woman, Elaine Lethbridge, helped hire the hall despite objections from the school headmaster, who did not want gay people using the school grounds. Lethbridge confronted him directly, arguing that someone who had experienced discrimination himself should understand the importance of supporting others facing prejudice. Her intervention ensured the fair could go ahead, highlighting the importance of allies in the broader struggle for LGBTQ+ rights. The fair quickly developed a lively and celebratory atmosphere. Des remembers the excitement of people arriving to run stalls, perform music and connect with others in the community. The event attracted strong support from people across Wellington, demonstrating that there was already a visible and active network of lesbian and gay people and supporters. At the same time, opposition existed. Des recalls the appearance of three men known as the “T-shirt boys”, who stood outside the venue wearing shirts with anti-gay slogans linking homosexuality to AIDS and opposing law reform. Rather than allowing the protest to disrupt the event, community solidarity stepped in. Members of the Amazons Softball Club, who were practising nearby, came over carrying their bats and quietly surrounded the protesters. The show of solidarity effectively neutralised the situation and ensured the fair could continue without confrontation. The purpose of the fair was closely tied to the campaign for homosexual law reform. In 1985 MP Fran Wilde had introduced the Homosexual Law Reform Bill into Parliament, seeking to decriminalise sexual activity between men. Activists recognised that public visibility and community engagement were crucial in influencing social attitudes during the debate. Des Smith worked alongside fellow organisers including James Heslop and Porleen Simmonds through the Gay Task Force to create events that encouraged people to see the humanity and diversity of the gay and lesbian community. Organising the fair also exposed activists to hostility. Des recounts experiences such as rocks being thrown at his house and even an attempt by a woman to run him down with her car. Despite these dangers, he remained determined to be open about his identity and stand up for equality. Over time, attitudes began to shift. When Des returned to the same local businesses while organising the second fair, he noticed a clear change in how people responded. More shopkeepers were willing to display posters and support the event, indicating a gradual transformation in public sentiment. Poster campaigns played an important role in promoting the law reform movement. Des tells an amusing story about putting up posters with the help of a young volunteer, Emily Perkins. They discovered a fundamentalist Christian repeatedly scraping the posters down. To outwit him, they placed posters higher up using a ladder so they could not easily be removed. These small acts of persistence helped spread awareness of the campaign throughout Wellington. Fast forward forty years and the scene around them at Out in the City in 2026 feels dramatically different. Des and John describe a colourful, energetic event with people of all ages, genders and backgrounds filling the waterfront space. Around eighty stalls represent community organisations, advocacy groups and businesses supporting the rainbow community. The sense of warmth and celebration stands in stark contrast to the hostility and fear that surrounded early activism. The couple had recently been honoured as Grand Marshals in the Wellington Pride Parade, an experience John describes as emotional and humbling. While they received public recognition, he emphasises that the achievements of the past decades belong to many individuals and communities. Activists such as Tim Barnett, Georgina Beyer and Alison Laurie, along with countless people who wrote submissions, organised events and offered support, all contributed to the progress seen today. Their personal story is intertwined with this wider history. Des Smith and John Jolliff have been together for thirty-eight years, having met while volunteering for the New Zealand AIDS Foundation. The AIDS crisis of the 1980s and 1990s was another defining moment for the rainbow community, bringing both discrimination and solidarity. Working together during that period strengthened their relationship and deepened their commitment to community service. Throughout the interview, both men emphasise the importance of remembering history. They express appreciation for projects that document LGBTQ+ stories and bring them to wider audiences. Recording personal experiences ensures that the struggles, courage and resilience of earlier generations are not forgotten. Looking ahead, Des and John share hopes for the future. They want to see a world with less discrimination and greater understanding between people of different backgrounds. Des also speaks about the importance of recognising and respecting Māori culture in Aotearoa New Zealand, encouraging wider awareness of te reo Māori and the country’s Indigenous heritage. Ultimately, their message is simple: societies can change, and progress is possible when communities work together for equality and inclusion. |
| interviewer | |
| voices | Des Smith; John Jolliff |
| tags | Homosexual Law Reform; 1980s; 2020s; anti-Semitism; Evangelical Christianity; homosexual law reform; Māori; police; posters; t-shirt boys; t-shirts; walk tour; Newtown School; Aotearoa New Zealand; Newtown; Wellington; Willis Street; Amazons Softball Club (Wellington); New Zealand AIDS Foundation (NZAF); Beacons of Hope (Wellington); Lesbian and Gay Fair; bogs; Bill Logan; Don Franks; Emily Perkins; Fran Wilde; Georgina Beyer; James Heslop; John Jolliff; Peter Duncan; Porleen Simmonds |
| tags_computer_generated | lesbian; gay; history; coming out; straight; law; Gay Task Force; support; music; military; Paris; school; abuse; parents; friends; community; discrimination; Tim Barnett; Pride parade; women; fear; church; love; visibility; tattoo; homosexual; culture; gender; difference; peace; rainbow; attitude; hope; fun; softball; change; hair; french; race; other; Elaine Lethbridge; parade; future; work; face; emotional; encouragement; Wellington Pride; People; Events; headmaster; speech; time; stall; wish; memory; AIDS; home |
| location_name | Odlins Plaza |
| location | 21 Cable Street |
| broader_location | Wellington |
| location_lat | -41.28953919545455 |
| location_long | 174.77989580876346 |
| precise_locality | true |