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It's my only experience of this type of living in community with hundreds of other people who, some I don't. Some I know who some I don't know. And. Many of them are my exes. And two, we're all living together. We're all living together, and it's wonderful. It might be tricky at moments and it's not as tricky as elsewhere because I feel like I [00:00:30] belong. I've got a strong sense of belonging to this community. It's a lovely place to be. That's beautiful. Thank you Mary. Um, and so, uh, how did you come to first learn about vinegar Health? I'm not entirely, I don't remember when I. I first learned when I, when I lived and didn't know about Vinegar Hill, and when I knew about I, I returned from overseas in about 2011 [00:01:00] and I had been away for several years working and living and exploring life overseas. And I came back to New Zealand. I came back to Wellington and I thought, I have to go to Vinegar Hill to connect with my people, but I didn't want to spend all the money to. To get too much gear because I know that you're gonna live a couple of weeks, you need a lot of gear for a couple of weeks camping. So I, I found a friend who has a large tent and is [00:01:30] used to being the center of it. Center of attention. I dunno if I'll, I don't dunno. I dunno if they'll agree with me, but this is how I see them. A strong personality. And I would be a little satellite around their, in their universe, if that would be okay with them, because I want, I didn't want to, the secret was I've been loneliest in my life when I'm in a group. Sometimes I, you know, can feel. That I won't be understood. So I had this conversation with my friend because I [00:02:00] wanted to come to Vinegar Hill and have a, have a place I could come back to and call home. So I had this chat with my friend and they said yes. So I went off and bought a tent and a burner and, and, and some food and I was in. I just think it's the most marvelous place to be understood and with friends. That's lovely. And so, so that was your first year you were a satellite, you said. How, how, and, and you told me earlier today that you're a satellite this year as well. I am. Can you describe [00:02:30] your campsite and set up to me, uh, what it's like this year? I have a friend who likes, um, every year their campsite is more and more not bigger. It's more spectacular and more, um, well we have, we. Uh, they have their tent and I have my tent just saying, and they've got a dog, which means they've got a fence [00:03:00] around around us. That sense about a boundary to where we begin and where we stop and people have to make a concerted effort to come into the gate. You don't casually stroll into the our campsite, which I'm quite happy about too. And so the VA dog is Vader and it's just. The love of my life is lovely Vader. I love Vader. And actually they were part of, yeah, indeed, indeed part of my life for many, many years. And there is a [00:03:30] gazebo for sitting under, which is turned out to be remarkably handy. 'cause in the mornings, the grass is wet everywhere except under the gazebo. So I'm delighted about that. And we've got a shower, so. Every morning I have a hot shower. Wow. I know I'm camping and I have a hot shower and, and it can unzip it to the, to the bush and it feels like I'm having a shower in the bush. It's lovely. So how long have you been coming here for? Every year. Since [00:04:00] 2011 or, um, I've missed, I've missed a couple of years when I've been moving house or something like that. Otherwise, I have to have a very good reason not to come to Vinegar Hill because it's the only place. In the world that I can live in community with and feel comfortable, I just I'm, I don't do everything everybody else does. I just love everybody here. Honestly, I come from a place of love. Yeah. What is it about [00:04:30] everybody here that makes you love them so much? People have chosen to be who they are. And I love that. And I like, and I deeply, deeply know what it feels like to not be who, who not be real in myself. And, um, I was brought up to not be real. I was brought up to fit into society and I had a strict role and [00:05:00] people here have decided to be themselves and that's incredibly dangerous. Anywhere except here. This is safe and this is queer as queer can be, and I love it. I love it. What does queer as queer can be look like at Vinegar Hill? People are smiling or not smiling. People are real. People are clean and people are dirty, and it doesn't matter who cares. [00:05:30] Immediately I connect with someone. I want to, uh, I I hear whether they like the world, whether they like themselves. It doesn't matter whether you've got a dog or not, or whether you've. Got clean glasses or not, or whether you've shaved this, shaved this morning. I'm thinking, oh, I don't, I'm telling myself doesn't matter. Doesn't matter whether I've shaved or not. And it doesn't matter whether you swim or whether you pluck or whether [00:06:00] you any, it doesn't matter. It, I, I enjoy chatting with people and finding out. What they like to do and sharing what I like to do, which is different from everybody else. We're all different and I celebrate the differences and, but I'm approximately seven times older than anybody here and I don't know what it means to other people, but I'm loving that. [00:06:30] I've seen, I've seen, um. I've seen this place evolve. I've seen it. I've seen changes. We've got security these days. We didn't used to have security. We used to do it all ourselves and have to try and keep it, keep ourselves safe, and until it got too, too much of a bother, we couldn't. Have so much fun because we're too busy keeping ourselves safe, and there have been lots of changes and it's big and [00:07:00] it's getting bigger and who knows what's gonna happen next year. I have no idea. I, I don't like the rain, but it's raining and I never thought I'd be camping in the rain. I'd do anything to come here. Camping in the rain is small potatoes to, to enjoy the diversity and the people that are here. And so speaking of the histories of the hill, what, what kind of traditions have evolved over the years that you've, that you've, that you find memorable or [00:07:30] important? Um, showering or not showering. Who cares? Um, but I sometimes, like, I like to shower and I, when I was camping. He around here. At first I was always having cold showers and I thought, oh God, you're gonna go straight to heaven if you have a cold shower. And now I've got a hot shower because of the sophistication of the, of the tea, of, of the, of the campsite that I'm in. Um, every year [00:08:00] I, every year I come. I, I wonder what the river is going to be like, whether the river is going to be fast or whether, whether the level will be low or whether it will be unrecognizable. And I remember the first time I tried to get in at the top and float down. I was so disappointed that I had to get out of my floaty thing and walk across the rapids and then, and then swim again at the bottom. So the, the top swimming area. [00:08:30] Um, I only discovered a couple of years ago because I've always swam at the bottom ear area and it's just, um, exactly the same as that. It's always been. But this year, oh, there's an ice cream van. Coming past this year, the level's quite high, so when I swam across to get to the other side, I thought, ah. I better not get too close to that scratchy looking rock. I [00:09:00] might take the skin off me. So I turned around and swam back and I'd ended up, um, about a kilometer down the river. It's, it's quite fast. It's quite fast, but there's a little. Whirly gig, a little whirly, but where you can swim against the flow of the river and it's just delightful. I enjoy it very much. For any, um, queer person who hasn't been so vinegar before, if you were telling 'em about the hill, encouraging them to come, what advice would you give them? Um, [00:09:30] I think deeply about what comforts me. Good. And what comforts me is having a safe place to safe place to go home to. 'cause I have all sorts of adventures all around co, all around camp, but all sorts of places. And I want to go home and comfort myself. So if people have a, a. So my advice is find out how you like your bed and make sure you have a bed that you like to go home to, or a bed that you like to share, [00:10:00] because all sorts of exciting things happen here. And I meet all sorts of wonderful people and I, I bought a tent many years ago, which I still use, but I've said I've seen better tents around. I've seen tents that you can stand up in and I want to, I want to stand up tent. This crouching over businesses is, is hard. It's hard indeed.
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