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Kia ora, everyone. Welcome this evening, and thank you so much for being here. My name is André Chumko. I'm the arts editor for The Post and the Sunday Star Times. I'm based here in Wellington, and will be moderating these lovely candidates tonight. Um, and I just wanna first thank both the PSA and Rainbow Wellington, who have put on this event. It's really important kaupapa. Um, also before we begin, I do want to acknowledge the whenua that we are gathered on today, and the mana whenua and tangata when- [00:00:30] whenua who have cared for and protected these lands across generations. Um, also a particular thank you to our political candidate panelists, um, who have put their hands up to be here today and to talk about the issues facing rainbow communities in Aotearoa. Um, we are gonna be covering issues today like health and well-being, and human rights, education, representation, and also the broader underlying question of what needs to change to make life [00:01:00] better and safer for our rainbow whanau here in Aotearoa, New Zealand. Um, we have candidates present tonight from Labour, the Greens, New Zealand First, Opportunity, and the Alliance Party, and we look forward to hearing all of your ideas and your commitments, and also how you would approach these issues if you were to be elected at, um, come next month. Um, National and Act were invited to this event. Um, I was told that [00:01:30] National had a drop-in last-minute candidate tonight, but I can't see them here, so we have this empty chair, which is kind of indicative of their absence. Um, you can kind of make of that what you will, but they will not be represented on this panel tonight. Um, before we get into our first set of questions, I do just wanna have a small reminder to everybody here, both in the panel and the audience, that this is a space for respectful and constructive discussion. I hope and believe that we're [00:02:00] all here because we have an intent of building a better future for everybody in New Zealand. Um, there are some personal and sometimes divisive issues on the table tonight, but, um, I think we can give both our pal- panelists and also, um, the people here in the audience the same respect and courtesy that we would expect in return. Um, with that, let's get into it, um, because there are many questions we wanna get through. Um, I'm just gonna quickly go down the line and if you wouldn't mind [00:02:30] just telling us your name, the party that you represent, and if you're standing in an electorate, um, really quickly, and I'll start from the far end if it's okay. All we need is that for now. Yeah. And just name, party? Yeah. Cool. Just that. Uh, kia ora koutou. Uh, ko Lauren Craig toku ingoa. I use she/they pronouns, and I am the candidate for the Green Party tonight, um, based out in the Wairarapa electorate. Thank you. Kia ora. Kia ora. I'm Gerald Warner. I'm the Wellington Bays New [00:03:00] Zealand First, uh, candidate. Um, tonight I'll be talking to our, our values of being nationalist, patriotic, socially conservative and common sense. Those last two in particular, they'll be recurring themes that you'll hear from me. Um, I'm sure from me that you're gonna- We're gonna be just after the names here so that Woo-hoo. Kia ora. I'm g- I'll behave. Um, my name's Josh Harford. I'm the Alliance Party candidate for Wellington North, and don't worry, you haven't been sent back to '96. We're back in '26.[00:03:30] Uh, kia ora. Ko Georgie Dansey ahau. He mema o te Paremata o te Rōpū Reipa. My name's Georgie Dansey. I am an MP with the Labour Party. I'm based in Kirikiriroa Hamilton, and I hold the rainbow issues spokesperson role for, uh, the Labour Party. Nice to be here tonight Um, kia ora katua, um, kia ora koutou. Sorry. My name's Bob Mason. I'm the Opportunity Party candidate for Kenepuru, and really looking forward to tonight's proceedings. Thank you. Cool. [00:04:00] Thank you so much, guys. Um, we're gonna move into, like, a short responses section now. We're kind of easing you in as we g- go, go further and deeper into this. We're gonna get into meatier topics. So how this section is gonna work is you will each have, um, 30 seconds to respond to questions I put out, and I believe we have someone who will be keeping time with a bell. So please be brief, but also conscious that we do have New Zealand Sign Language interpreters. So brief, but not speaking [00:04:30] so fast that they cannot interpret you. Um, so this is just to ensure everyone gets a say, obviously, and we have a lot of questions to get through. Um, okay, so first question from the floor. These were, um, collated, um, from myself and on behalf of, um, the PSA and Rainbow Wellington. Thank you for all of these. These have informed what we're gonna be asking tonight. Oh, and, um, also if you want, if you d- want to answer, just raise your flag first, and, [00:05:00] um, we will then come to you. Um, if you don't want to answer, you don't have to raise your flag. So there's no requirement to answer these. Um, but I just wanna ask firstly, who was the first rainbow person you remember knowing? Does anyone wanna answer that? Can I say me? Yeah, I guess so. That counts, right? Any- anyone else? Um- Passing it between- Yeah, I remember being, like, I think about seven and being like any seven-year-old and, you know, um, [00:05:30] I just... I really remember when everyone was using gay as just, like, the straight up, um, pejorative language, and it was just, like, the flavor of the thing. I didn't even know what it meant. And I remember just saying it, and my friend's mom being like, "Hey, what, what on earth is wrong with being gay?" And I think that genuinely, like, made me sit down in my spot and be like, "What is wrong with being gay? Am I gay?" Um, which wasn't her intention, but yeah, it's real funny how those, like, little interactions when you're, like, six can- [00:06:00] Yeah, yeah absolutely change you entirely, right? Thank you for that. I, I've, I, uh- Please do raise the rainbow flag. Sorry, sorry. Oh, there we go. Rainbow flag. All right. I, um... When I was at high school, 14, I, um, a, a particular guy was a friend of mine, and, um, it was, you know, he, he was quite effeminate, quite obvious that, um, that he was gay. Uh, and he came out some years later. So that was my first, uh, engagement. Okay. Thank you. Thanks very much. Okay. Um, we have here also, [00:06:30] um, and this is from the group: Who's a rainbow person, past or present, that you admire? Anyone wants to answer that? Georgie, yeah, guess we can start with you. Um, mine has got to be Georgina Beyer. Um- ... probably similar to most people in the room. What an incredible, amazing person. Um, Mayor of Carterton, and then first transgender member of Parliament. Um, here's to more transgender people being in Parliament. Karli Parry. Okay, we have a [00:07:00] lot that wants to answer that. We'll start on this end maybe 'cause And then we can go down. Um, the person I would choose for that would be Alan Turing, who has done so much, um, to end the Second World War, let alone around maths and, and, and coding, and was sadly persecuted for his sexuality, um, l- resulting in his death. But yeah, um, he's a phenomenal figure in 20th century history. Um, so Georgie stole my answer. I was gonna say Georgina Beyer as well. [00:07:30] Um, and pretty much everything that was just said, but I will just add that Georgina Beyer is an alum of my high school, Onslow College, and that's something I'll always be proud of. Ooh. That's awesome. Yeah Yeah, I was, like, also gonna say Georgina Beyer, right? Like, like, come on. But, you know, um, Georgina Beyer is the reason I'm standing in the Wairarapa electorate, right? That was where she ran. It was where she was the, um... She, I mean, she won, and resulted in being the first trans person elected to Parliament, like, of anywhere in the entire world, and she did it right here in New Zealand, right [00:08:00] out in the Wairarapa. And that's the reason I, as a trans woman, am able to run out there, and it, isn't that just so cool? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, more trans people in Parliament, though. Yeah, that'd be great. Kia ora. We also have... Okay, so the next question, and, um, with, there's two more, um, short questions for you, is, do you commit to meeting with rai- the ma- rainbow community, um, organizations before voting on legislation that affects them? Raise your flag if you want to respond to [00:08:30] that. We can start from where the mic is. Look, I think that's a basic principle. If you're making legislation about any community that is being affected, you should meet with that community. I think that is an extremely reasonable proposition. Um, and yeah, naturally, of course, that applies to the rainbow community. I, you know, I sit here as a trans woman and, but I also sit here as very much a Pākehā white trans woman, right? And I am not going to sit around and think that I am the be-all and end-all of queer rights, no matter how much I love my community. Um, so I think it's really [00:09:00] important, of course, to meet with the entirety of the community through perspectives that are not just your own. Kia ora. Yeah, please. Yeah, New Zealand First, I mean, we, we, similar to the theme you've just said there, we will engage with, um, with all people. Um, and, um, you'll probably hear later, certainly our position, you, uh, is probably quite contrary to many of you. Uh, but, uh, we certainly will, uh, open to, uh, engaging in, uh, conversation. Like to hear it. Uh, [00:09:30] short answer, yes. Um, the Alliance in the next parliament intends to be quite busy repealing a lot of the anti-um, LGBT legislation that's been passed in the last term, and so there'll be quite a lot of meetings, I'm sure, uh, in that space. I have the great, uh, privilege of being in Parliament and being rainbow spokesperson, so this is something that I get to do every day. Um, and certainly over the last little while, especially with damaging bills that no doubt we will discuss soon, the engagement with the rainbow communities has been, um, [00:10:00] big. And a lot of people have reached out to me directly, and sometimes we don't always see eye to eye or they have criticisms, uh, et cetera. But every single interaction has been incredibly respectful and positive, and I try to bring those voices into, uh, the mahi that I do in Parliament, in my speeches in the House and, um, in select committee. Because I think, as, as Lauren said, I can never represent everybody in the community, um, and it's my responsibility- -to make sure I [00:10:30] bring all voices there. No, it's ... Don't say sorry, it's my fault. Um, and my answer is yes too. Um, worth pointing out that, um, one of the things that impacts on you not being able to talk, to reach out to stakeholders who are affected is passing so many laws under urgency, which is something this government's done a lot of and we're against, and we would insist that the, the, that if you don't do it that way, you've got proper time to talk to the people who are affected by legislation. Yeah. [00:11:00] Kia ora. Thank you, everybody. Um, last short response question for you, um, and then we're gonna kind of get into the meat of bo- meat and bones of tonight, is what's one thing you've learned from the rainbow community that maybe has influenced your views? Does anybody want to answer that one? I think a great attribute that the rainbow community has brought is a greater perspective around love. And, um, yeah, I think that's commendable. Yeah, that's [00:11:30] beautiful. Anybody else on that one? Oh, yeah, I'll do that one. Do you want to go? Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was us. It's okay. Um, actually one of my recent learnings has just been the invisibility of our intersex community. Mm. I've had the pleasure of spending a, a bit of time with, um, Tu Chapman- Mm um, and others in that community, and I think especially with the, the recent Man Woman Definition Bill, the kind of, the need for visibility for intersex is so important. [00:12:00] Um, for me it's just been the diversity in something which I thought I understood all of it, but it, it isn't, and it's a continually evolving, um, landscape, um, LGBTQ. Um, and so yeah, um, it's ... I'm, I'm always learning a lot about this community. Um, and that, you know, it, it's, um, that's an important part I think of, of being a politician, is to continue to evolve your learning, uh, around, uh, community groups.[00:12:30] Yeah. So I think for me, right, the biggest learning from being in the rainbow community to me is just that none of us really got to choose who we are, right? Not really. Um, but we did ... What a lot of us are, and what I myself am lucky to be able to do, is to choose to embrace who I am. You know, I didn't ask to be, um, uh, born as a trans woman or to be born as a lesbian, but I am really, really lucky to have the privilege to be able to embrace that, to think that it is the absolute coolest thing about myself. [00:13:00] And I think it's just so amazing to be able to get a chance to be who y- you are in such a unique way, and I just, I really want that to be an opportunity that all of us should be able to have, right? Yeah. Thank you. Um, yeah, that is a round of applause for you all for getting through that little icebreaker there. Now we move into the kind of substantive of the evening, so these are a bit more, um ... We're gonna give you a bit longer to answer. You can have 90 seconds each. Please, we s- we'll still [00:13:30] have the bell. Um, we will be giving you a one-minute warning when you reach one minute, and then, um, yeah, 90 seconds. And this again, if you want to answer, just raise your flag or pass the mic between yourselves. Thank you for being civil with that. Um, okay. So first opening question as a substantive is: What do you see as the most significant issue facing our rainbow communities here in Aotearoa today, and what would your party do to address it? [00:14:00] Okay, we might start on this end just 'cause- Okay ... just for fairness. Um, I think sadly the most, um, pertinent thing affecting the rainbow community is still, um, acceptance and, um, um, an understanding of, of their needs and, uh, and accepting in a society even today in 2026, I think there are still problems with that. Um, and it's kind of sad in a way. Um, I noticed one of the questions we were [00:14:30] provided was looking back as a retrospective on 40 years of, of homosexual law reform, um, and how do you feel things have changed or whatever. And I would say that many of the arguments used today against transgender people, uh, were used 40 years ago against, uh, um, uh, gay people. And it's, it's sad that things are getting rehashed in this way, and I just, um, are... We, we don't actually have any specific policy, um, other [00:15:00] than that we are 100% accepting and tolerant of all people, all aspects in the rainbow community as in anywhere else, and we will do any, um, all legislation, um, that we would support would be one which empowers and encourages and fosters more acceptance and understanding of that community. As simple as that. Thank you. Kia ora. Uh, kia ora. I think that the biggest issue has got to be the, um, [00:15:30] polarization of rainbow people in our political landscape. The, um, the use of rainbow, particularly transgender whānau for a populist agen- agenda to win votes is quite frankly disgusting. Sure. Um, and this government has done mul- changed multiple policies and pieces of legislation that discriminate against our whānau. Um, and I think when I'm talking to rainbow people, they [00:16:00] tell me that they're scared. And before this government- People weren't as scared as they are now. I spoke to a parent of a ch- trans child who said she was so worried that this government would change the rules about being able to change your sex on your, uh, birth certificate, she was gonna change the gender of her trans child at eight years old because she was scared. This parent is already dealing with trying to navigate having a ch- a trans child through our education system without [00:16:30] having to also be scared about the future for her child. Um, in order to address this, we need to make sure that we are united, we are learning from the incredible lessons of the past, the amazing activists who have been working in our communities for 50 years, um, because together and with our strength, we can overcome this. We can start by changing the government, and th- and then we can cont- unravel the laws they have created and continue to make positive change in [00:17:00] healthcare and education, um, across the board for rainbow people. Thank you Um, so in terms of... I mean, this is not, of course, the only, um, main barrier. It is, it is one of a number that are, I think, equally as important. But the general structurally, the economic structural, uh, inequity of our society. You know, we have, um, we have, you know, discrimination protection and so on in place, but they don't have a lot of teeth. And in a lot of cases, [00:17:30] and my- one of my party spokes- uh, spokesman roles is youth, and so this is kind of my area. Things like, um, our incredibly weak, uh, student allowance and job seeker frameworks essentially, um, allow a lot of queer people to fall into a, essentially a gap where, you know, in many cases, people are ostracized by their families and don't get any kind of, any kind of support. And the current regime for this sort of thing is just sort of assuming that families will always support their, their kids. W- And [00:18:00] especially in the rainbow community, this is disproportionately not the case. Um, so the alliance is very much about leveling, leveling the floor, if you will. Um, so in terms of the economic situation, we need to make sure that, um, those in the rainbow community, for example, actually have the, the, like I say, as I said, the level floor to be able to achieve, um, everything they want to achieve in life. We're not gonna be a society that can, uh, respect individual differences if we're a society where, [00:18:30] you know, a decent portion of the population is fundamentally just several steps below everyone else in terms of economic equality. So we're about leveling the floor, and not to say that, um, the other things that, um, my colleagues have said tonight is not true. Um, these are all equally as important. It's hard to nail down sort of one silver bullet or- Deadbolts, if you will, um, for this particular issue. Mm-hmm. Um, look, I'm New Zealand First, right? So we, we're pretty stacked here. So we've got one, two, [00:19:00] three, four, which are probably gonna be quite pro, um, and, and agreeable with you and your views, and then you have there's myself. All right? So I'm gonna offer you, um, some, some alternative thoughts. New Zealand First is responsible- Just, just making sure that this remains as safe for everybody in the room. Yeah. Yep, yep. So- As well. Thank you ... I, I'm just preparing you, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're gonna hear some things which are- Yeah, yeah. That's all. That's all right. So, um, look, I suppose, and, and probably if I could comment, [00:19:30] as I was going through the questions, uh, I, I was really quite pleased with the questions. I thought that they were, um, quite good, so we will have a good discussion tonight. Um, if we, if we say what the biggest issue is from a New Zealand First perspective, um, many of us might be familiar with the, um, the satirical, uh, idiom from Hans Christian Andersen's, uh, children's stories, The, The Emperor Has No Clothes. Uh, and it's to represent situations where people are afraid to comment about someone or something, [00:20:00] uh, because of the perceived wisdom or importance of that person or thing. Um, and often we see a fearf- that's fearful of the subsequent backlash that is likely to occur following, you know, a challenge or a criticism. Um, now maybe, you know, that's, uh, that's can be applied to the field of transgender health, and young people, uh, are one of those metaphorical emperors. You know, I couldn't agree more. I mean, it's- Um, mental health- I mean, not paying attention to how important trans health is- If we've- Hey. Yeah. So if we can [00:20:30] learn anything from the past, particularly around mental health, um, and particularly with, you know- Thank you. Thank you, Gerald. Thank you. We'll just keep it moving. Thank you. Great. Yep. We'll have, we'll have more, um- Right. We'll just keep passing it down. Thanks, Lauren. Yeah. So I really want to build off of everything that, um, has been said by Georgie previously about the sheer amount of hate and vitriol being whipped up against our community is completely disgusting, and it is not okay. The reality is, is that we are all just out here trying to get by, [00:21:00] trying to live our lives, trying to be happy, healthy, and thrive. We're dealing with a ridiculous cost of living. We're dealing with a climate crisis and a fuel crisis and so many different types of crises. But unfortunately for so many of our community, we can't even stop and just live right now because there are so many people in this government that are whipping up hatred against us. Because they can't govern, because they can't rule an economy, they are focused on trying to act as if we are somehow the problem. That is the biggest threat facing our community, and that [00:21:30] is e- everything we need to stand up against tonight. Thank you, Lauren. We have our, our ne- our next substantive question. And can I just remind all panelists that we, um, will have time to answer other questions, but if you could just focus on the question that is asked, that would be helpful 'cause we can cover things, um, later, um, in the, in the panel. Um, the next one, having said that, is if you are elected, what specific action will your party take regarding the [00:22:00] Gender Definition Bill? Will you support it? Will you oppose it? Will you seek amendments? Will you repeal it? And we can start, um, yeah, with Lauren. I mean, look, easy start, right? Like, we will repeal it. We will absolutely, unequivocally repeal it. I was such... I was really privileged to be able to work with our rainbow communities in rallying against this bill because this is one of the most horrific pieces of legislation that has been introduced in recent times, right? The idea that the government can tell us who we are, what kind of socially conservative government [00:22:30] is out here making rules about who we are, that doesn't make any sense. What we need to do is to stand up against that, and I don't think what this government have realized that they've actually done by introducing this bill is make the community more united, more ready to organize than ever before. So in a way, they have just set us up for some great things because I am so excited to get this government out and just really see our community thrive. Thank you. All right. I, when you say the Gender Definition Bill, I presume you're meaning the Legislation [00:23:00] Definitions of Ma- uh, Woman and Man Amendment Bill. Yes. Um, now, th- so that was a New Zealand First Bill. Um, so we will not be, uh, repealing that. Uh, and it was introduced as a private member's bill. Yeah. Uh, it is supported by petitions from New Zealand First and by, uh, Speak Up for Women. Yeah. Um, by establishing these definitions in the, um, Legislation Act 2019, the bill provides a clear biological grounded meaning of woman and man [00:23:30] across legislation. The purpose of the amendment- ... is to uphold legal certainty and to protect the integrity of sex-based rights and ensure that language and law reflects biological reality. Yeah. Not what all the biologists say, just- So this definition will only, uh, will apply in all contexts where the terms man and woman are used, unless explicitly stated otherwise in specific legislation. Thank you. Thank you. We do know what this bill is. And law. We are ready for the debate. Yeah. Thank you, Gerald. Um, I mean, to be [00:24:00] blunt, it actually doesn't clarify the biolo- like, say, the biological, um- Hear, hear ... question. Um, it defines a man as, quote, "A biological man." Doesn't define what that means. Um, and I'll talk more about that in a second. Um, look, uh, the, the Alliance will repeal this bill. Um, I was proud to submit on behalf of the Alliance against this bill, um, with the help of our, um, various highly capable, um, other, um, Rainbow members. Um, and, you know, even notwithstanding the [00:24:30] assault that it is on the trans community, it's a genuinely terribly written bill. I mean, it- ... it just doesn't actually define what it's setting out to define. And the... One of the main concerns, sort of the broader concerns, if you will, from this bill, um, is precisely what Gerald has just said, in that it essentially redefines the term woman and man in every other piece of legislation as well, unless otherwise defined. For example, abortion, adoption, and all manner of other, um, legislation, like, lost off the top of my head. But [00:25:00] it essentially creates probably about 50 to 60 pending court cases to define what this bill actually means, and it's a complete abdication of Parliament's, you know, duty to legislate unambiguously. So, uh, aside from the fact it's a terribly written bill, it is an assault on our trans community. The government needs to get out of people's pants- Yeah ... quite frankly. Yeah. And yeah, the Alliance is committed to repealing this one. Thank you. John. Uh, Labor opposes the bill. I had the, [00:25:30] um... I was gonna say pleasure, but it wasn't a pleasure, um, to question Jenny Malcroft on it. Um, I just wanna sh- also shout out while I'm here, don't take up my time, to Kahu Rangi Carter who's just come in, who is Green Party spokesperson for rainbow people. Um, Kahu was in the room with me when we did this questioning, and I asked two questions. The first question I asked was, "What does bi- what does biology mean? What does biological mean in your books?" And she said, "Uh, could you look at this news article on Newshub that they released?" She had no [00:26:00] idea, 'cause biological could mean all manner of things. I mean, it just in its purest form means to be alive. So the second question I asked was if, um, someone who was assigned female at birth or had been living as a man for the past 30 years, um, so they presented very masculine, would they be allowed into the women's bathrooms? And she said yes. So it's very clear that she's completely confused- ... about [00:26:30] this entire bill. And actually, when I used terms like assigned female at birth, she looked at me like I was r- um, speaking a foreign language. She has not, she has not connected with rainbow communities in any way on this bill, despite saying that she has. Um, regarding submissions on the bill, there were thousands of submissions. Kahu was on the select committee, so would've read many, many of them, and the majority of them were from cis women against the bill. It doesn't protect [00:27:00] cis women, and it doesn't protect trans women. Um, yeah, we're not supportive of this bill either, and I'd like to echo what, what Lauren said. Um, um, we feel that these bills, um, th- both the, the, the gender definition one and the treaty principles one are all populist distractions from a government that doesn't know how to pass bills to fix the economy. So it's just picking fights with either [00:27:30] marginalized groups or blowing dog whistles. No, no, no. Thank you all. Um, I'm just gonna also... I hope you don't mind, but I'm gonna speed you up a bit 'cause I do have a bit to get through still. Um, um, so we'll give you maybe 30 seconds now. Is that okay? No problem. So just prompt responses. Thank you all. Um, next question: Will your party commit to funding inclusive healthcare services for rainbow communities, including gender-affirming care, mental health support, and specialist services? [00:28:00] Um, yes. Um, we actually are committed to improving spending on all primary healthcare, and it's really sad, I think, that, um, something like that is, is seen, um, as, as something that needs to have a special, um, support of it. It, it, it's necessary for that community, as is lots of other primary healthcare. We support all of it. Thank you. Uh, today, um, uh, Labor's announced that we will create a specific Pae Ora strategy, a health strategy for [00:28:30] rainbow people. So this is a strategy developed by rainbow whanau and health professionals. It's long-term, so we're looking kind of 10 years ahead, looking at population, um, growth over that time and what the future of rainbow people is. So that report, um, uh... That, sorry, research will inform how we move forward in this space. It will be specific to rainbow people. Um, we need a whole lot more of, uh, not just healthcare for rainbow people, but also gender-affirming care within our, um, within Aotearoa, [00:29:00] and actually just health professionals that, um, that can respond to rainbow needs. Thank you, Georgie. Respond to the question. And it's also still, if you don't want to respond you don't have to, but, um, we can just continue going down the line. Josh? Yeah, so part of the Alliance's comprehensive reform of the health sector includes bringing in, uh, mental healthcare, um, into, into the public health, uh, arena, make it entirely free at all levels, um, in all, in all types of different mental health support. And in terms of gender-affirming care, um, we've committed [00:29:30] in our policy, a policy that was released, I think, last week, um, to make that completely free and also do everything we possibly can to bring down the waiting list on those things. So it is part of healthcare and it is part of just generally, um, the health and wellbeing of this community. Thank you All right, New Zealand First, um, distributes health based on need, so we don't, um, go specifically for any particular group. Uh, we support the, uh, the rainbow community as, uh, integrated members of society, [00:30:00] uh, through policies that apply to everyone. On Sunday, we released our heal- health policy, and it's, um, highly focused on preventative health, and, um, some, you know, some really good, good bold policies in that. Thank you. Whoo. Whoo. Whoo. No reference to alcohol or cigarettes in that policy . Sorry, Lauren, I hate to hustle you, but- That's okay. Sorry, that, that, that needed air. Um- Okay, yeah, so look, [00:30:30] no one's gonna be surprised to hear me stand up and say, "Yeah, of course, we're the Greens. We're absolutely here for, um, rainbow healthcare." Like, I mean, how could we not be, right? Um, healthcare system is very broken, and it needs a major overhaul. We're here to fix it. What I do wanna do is talk about the need for people to, that have actually had experience with this to be in the room, to be making these decisions. When I talk- first spoke to my doctor about wanting gender-affirming care, do you know what she said the wait list for surgery was? Mm-hmm. She said if I was lucky, it would be 15 years. If I [00:31:00] was lucky. Realistically, I was looking at about 25. No surgery should have a wait list of 25 years, and I just wanna be clear, that was about four years ago under a supposedly more progressive government. The health system has been a nightmare for the trans community for a long time, and we are very much here to fix this. Thank you, Lauren. Thank you. Um, sorry, I'm gonna be super speedy with these last few. Yeah, that's fine. Um, next one is, um, how would your party strengthen protections for trans, non-binary, and intersex New Zealanders under human rights [00:31:30] law, and/or will your comm- party commit to progressing the recommendations, 27 of them or any of them, uh, of the Law Commission's Ia Tangata report? Um, again, to the floor, yeah, anybody. Um, I've just got one last one. Lauren, yeah, have it. We can start with you. We can start on your time, right? Um, yeah, so I mean, as you said, right, the Ia Tangata report is a fantastic example of how we can strengthen and support our communities, is how we can overhaul our hate crime and our ha- hate speech, um, uh, regulations to, just to [00:32:00] ensure that they actually actively work for our communities. This is something the Greens have been a big voice on for a long time. We've previously had members bill about ensuring that gender and sexual identity are included within the scope, so it's a real big priority for us, and one that I think could seriously change and help a lot of us. Thank you. Gerald, do you have more protections? Um, New- New Zealand First, um, so we believe in free speech and, uh, common sense, um, so we will not be supporting the Ia Tangata recommendations. Uh, we, we haven't in office, and we will not, um, going [00:32:30] forward. Uh, in our view, under the recommendations, doctors and nurses would be, uh, could be faced with, um, complaints for expressing clinical views about sex and gender without explicit safeguards or freedom of expression. Uh, employers could also be exposed to liability, um, in terms of any sort of, uh, opinions expressed, and, um, teachers and school boards could be faced with legal risk. Um, so- Thank you, sir. Thanks. Sorry, we're just gonna have to move on 'cause of time. John? Yeah, we intend to give effect to [00:33:00] the recommendations of the Ia Tangata report. Um, and on top of that, um, we're committed to restoring, um, for example, the pay equity legislation that's been gutted under the last government. Um, uh, that, um, is not just, uh, in rega- as regards women, um, it's also, um, you know, the, the rainbow community and also Maori and Pacifica and other communities are, were, um, affected by the gutting of that legislation. So, uh, we'll take into effect the, um, the recommendations of that report and also, uh, go beyond that by restoring pay equity. Thank you. [00:33:30] Uh, yes, Labor will, uh, implement the recommendations of Ia Tangata and the, uh, inclusion of gender id- gender identity into our Human Rights, um, Act. That, uh, report was commissioned by the previous Minister of Justice, Kiri Allan, a rainbow MP. So, um, good to see it finally come out, and a shame that this government chose to completely ignore it. Um, we, we also would support the, uh, recommendations of Ia Tangata, uh, because, uh, concrete [00:34:00] recommendations are better than just... I mean, anyone can actually just wave a flag and say, "We support the rainbow community." I think it is better to say, "No, these are specific recommendations, um, developed in consultation with our community." That's what needs to happen. Thank you, Bob. Um, if I can pivot a bit to, um, education now. Um, I wanna ask you all, does your party support inclusive relationships and sexuality education that does actually reflect the experiences of rainbow young people, and why or why not? [00:34:30] Again, we'll just keep to 30 seconds, if you don't mind. Um- We can start with you, Bob, if you want to answer. Happy to start with this. I am a secondary school teacher, and I'm hugely supportive of in- of, of inclusive, uh, sex education as, as you've outlined there. And that we had a very good system, um, for that, and there've been attempts to undermine that and change that, and it just smacks of political interference in, uh, in education when educational experts have done their best to put together, [00:35:00] um, a extraordinarily good educational, um, support, um, that is inclusive, um, and is for all. Um, yeah, I feel very strongly about that, quite frankly. Thanks, mate I visited Wellington High today 'cause it's their Pride Week, and they grilled me It was, it was so... It was just great 'cause they're so, they're so switched on. Our young people are so onto it, and they just knew everything about politics, everything about rainbow issues. It was great. Um, good practice for [00:35:30] this grilling in this debate. Um, um, uh, yes. We, Labor... Um, I was like, "Remember the question?" W- uh, Labor will, um, make sure we have sexuality education in school. It's an absolute no-brainer. We have to be teaching all our kids, rainbow or not, about different types of people and rainbow issues. Thank you. Georgina? Yes. Look, not providing this education does nothing but, um, beget years of pain and anguish and suffering and [00:36:00] mental turmoil for those students who don't receive education to say, "Listen, you're okay. You know, this is, you know, what you're feeling is okay and normal." Um, y- you know, it makes kids who, you know, are, I don't wanna say different, but, you know, who are, you know, LGBT or queer think there's something wrong with them. I speak from experience on that front, not receiving, um, this kind of, uh, inclusive, um, education on this front in, in high school. Um, so I mean, all, all that not providing it achieves is [00:36:30] years of pain and anguish and- Thank- I'll shut up. Thank you. Hey, uh, New Zealand First, uh, believes that, um, ongoing development of education, uh, curriculum and pedagogy should be based on robust science, uh, not political activism or ideology. Our cause is social conservatism. Uh, we are not about progressive emancipation. Hear, hear. Thank you. You're welcome. I mean, look, I welcome the call from New Zealand First to take politics out of these, [00:37:00] and maybe we could reverse that very political decision that got rid of these guidelines in the first place. I think, look, absolutely. Again, no one's gonna be surprised that I'm sitting here representing the Green Party saying, "Yes, absolutely, we want these guidelines back in place." But I do just wanna share that I would have killed when I was a kid to have something like that to teach me who I was. I didn't know who I was for a very long time, and my, the change it could have made in my life to figure that out ahead of time, to have a framework to understand who I was, that just could have [00:37:30] meant the absolute world, and I really, really hope that our tamariki and our rangatahi can have that going forward. Thank you, Lauren. Um, I want to cover again a bit to, um, leadership, um, and also, uh... Oh, well, first, um, I have a question about cost of living for you because, um, this is affecting everybody but especial- especially our rainbow whanau, um, which are, um, disproportionately affected by housing, income, and wellbeing challenges in New Zealand. What specific measures would your party [00:38:00] take to address the cost of living crisis for our rainbow communities? Oh, my God. We can start with you, Lauren. Yeah, thanks. Okay, 30 seconds to do all the cost of living. Okay. Um, let's start. We're gonna break up the supermarket duopoly. We're gonna establish KiwiMart, so we've got a publicly owned supermarket that can, can come in and prevent these awful supermarkets that are raking over a million dollars a day in excess profits, and we can shut that down and make groceries affordable. We want to introduce a public, um, energy supplier and focus more on, um, [00:38:30] a building up of, uh, renewable energy so that we've got cheaper energy for all of us, and we wanna have solar rebates on your home, which are actually, would immediately from day one mean that not only you get to increase the capital value of your house, but you also don't have to pay a power bill anymore 'cause you've got solar. That's so cool. Finally, we want to make sure that we are taxing the rich. There are 150 households in this country that have the same amount of wealth as the bottom 900,000. That is ridiculous. This country has never had more money, and it is just taken up all by the greedy rich. Thank you, Lauren. [00:39:00] Hey, guys. Uh, so for New Zealand First, uh, we, um, we have a... I, I would say that it's actually, um, many that are struggling, uh, not just the, uh, rainbow community. But our, our policy is universal. So we are focusing on splitting up the power companies. We are focused on buying back the BNZ bank so that we can... And then also, uh, breaking up the supermarket duopoly. What we wanna do is restructure those industries, get more competition in those industries, start driving down those prices. That will deal with it. We also have a [00:39:30] Ki- um, making KiwiSaver compulsory, so everyone has to contribute to it, and any, any New Zealand f- uh, citizen will have $1,000. Thank you, Gerald. Yeah. Look, I, I talked earlier about, um, yeah, expanding, you know, b- benefits and student support, especially for, um, younger people, and this is my, very much my wheelhouse as the Alliance spokesman on, on youth affairs. Um, so, you know, currently we have, um... Well, the last government has abolished the job seeker [00:40:00] benef- or severely restricted the job seeker benefit for, um, 18 and 19-year-olds. Um, disproportionately, um, queer 18 and 19-year-olds are the ones who don't receive support from their families, and the government sort of assumes that we do. Um, so we need to fundamentally alter the, the way that that operates so that people can actually get the support they need. Um, and, and more broadly on the cost of living, we're gonna abolish the lowest tax bracket straight away, so the first $20,000 that you earn will be tax-free, which I will talk later. Sorry, we're on a schedule here. [00:40:30] People may need to leave. Uh, this is a cost of living election. We're all feeling the pinch. What Labour stands for is good, well-paid jobs, affordable healthcare, and real action on the cost of living. Um, we've got a bunch of policies, but the one I'm gonna speak to is our three free GP visits for every New Zealander. That gets people the primary healthcare they need without paying to access their doctor. But it also helps you out in the pocket 'cause you're not paying for that doctor's visit. It also is one less barrier for [00:41:00] our rainbow whanau in acti- in accessing the doctor. We know there are a bunch of different barriers that our rainbow whanau often experience, and if we can get rid of the cost, that's one more step closer they are, uh, to getting the healthcare that they deserve. Thank you, Georgie. Um, we currently have a bit of a Kafkaesque patchwork of benefits, um, systems that are often inconsistently and cruelly applied. Um, our flagship policy is the citizen's income. [00:41:30] It's better than a, a, a, a tax-free threshold because it goes to everybody, and it ends the stigma, the, the, the mess of people who, um, are p- on a benefit and then get a little bit more work, and then they're sanctioned or whatever. Um, this just cuts through all of that, and in states where they've had a citizen's income, it has not made people lazy, and it has helped the most vulnerable people, which does include the rainbow community. Thank you, Bob. Um, if you could all just pick up your flags really quickly. I have a couple more [00:42:00] questions. They were gonna be responses, but I'm just gonna make them a yes or no so you at least get a, um, overall view, um, without actually hearing from you. Um- Does... Sorry. Um, do you support, um, s- adoption and surrogacy reform to support more opportunities for members of the rainbow community? Raise for yes. Okay. Okay. Do you believe New Zealand's current hate crime and hate speech protections are adequate? Raise for yes.[00:42:30] And just, just lastly als- just lastly also, would you publicly challenge members of your own party, Raise4Yes, if they made comments that were harmful to rainbow communities? Yeah. Really, Gerard? Really? I mean- Okay. Um, we're, we're gonna move on to audience questions now. So there may be [00:43:00] some, um... There's a roving mic, I think, or I can give you this mic. Um, does anybody have a question for either the entire panel, a particular candidate? I can hand this to you now. Oh, wow. Um, yeah. Okay. I'll just give this to you. Aww. And just, um, state your name, and we'll just keep it brief 'cause we are not... We don't have much time here. As Elvis would say, thank you very much. I'm Miguel. I'm a local here in Wellington, and my question is: Would it be far more frugal to buy back BNZ in order to [00:43:30] invest in our own country rather than to invest $33 billion to another country as per the FTA, and expect waves of so-and-so tsunami in return? Thank you very much. Thank you. This is a rainbow- Can we just keep it on the rainbow issues, which the- mic is. Thank you. I think we can just move on, actually. I'm sorry. Yeah, it's not the appropriate discipline. Um, any other questions for the floor? Rainbow issues focus. Just real quick, how many doctors in New Zealand are performing gender-affirming surgeries? Mm. Does anyone know? [00:44:00] I know. Uh, all, all gender-affirming surgeries? Yeah. I mean, I know we've got just the one- Like bottom surgery ... doing bottom surgery at the moment, right? But I just realized there's probably maybe one or two more doing top surgery. Yeah. But either way, we've got one doing bottom surgery. Yeah, so you can count them on one hand total- Oh, yeah, yeah ... in a country of five, six million. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. All right, I'm gonna hovering around this mic. Um, can you tell me, if you're elected, what's one concrete commitment that your party will deliver in the next parliamentary term that will make life better for rainbow [00:44:30] people in Aotearoa? And we can start anywhere. Look, I think the easiest and the biggest, uh, scope of the thing I could say is to repeal all of the harm this government has done. I know that doesn't go far enough, but it is a major step forward. I'm talking about re-allowing puberty blockers for kids. I'm talking about r- abolishing the gender definition bill. Um, and I'm talking about getting more funding into rainbow healthcare. There is so much we can be doing, and I just can't even think of... You just can't narrow that down to one policy because [00:45:00] this is, goes right to the heart of our pol- of our political party. Thank you. Uh, New Zealand First has a range of policies around, uh, New Zealand citizenship. We are increasing the value of New Zealand citizenship. All, I presume all, everyone here is a New Zealand citizen. Yep. Uh, so therefore you will be benefiting from those policies as well. Hear, hear. Whoo. So, uh, as a New Zealand citizen who, as part of the butter chicken tsunami- I, um, I'm, I'm proud to, [00:45:30] uh, represent the Alliance. I'm proud to represent the Alliance here tonight. And, um, as, as Lauren said, there's no one policy that can be a silver bullet. Um, but we're committed to both restoring and enhancing pay equity, um- Yay ... which goes a really long way to reducing the impact of discrimination by employers. Um, and that will be something that can materially improve, um, the, you know, financial position and wellbeing of the rainbow community whilst we work on tackling [00:46:00] the other structural barriers as well. Thank you. George? Um, great. I'm gonna make a commitment to that pie order strategy that I mentioned earlier. We are very fortunate enough to have the labor spokesperson for health as not only a doctor, but also a queer doctor. Woo. And in the conversations I've had with her, she is so committed to rainbow communities and what that looks like being someone from the commu- um, community. We've had multiple discussions about the pie order strategy and what changes we can make, and I'm committed to making life easier [00:46:30] for rainbow people in the healthcare sector. Thank you. George? Um, our approach to healthcare has always been evidence-based, and so we would ensure that any healthcare that is relevant, uh, or he- uh, healthcare legislation that's relevant for rainbow people is done in consultation with them and those doctors that, sadly not many of them, do provide gender-affirming care to get that absolutely right for the people that need it. Thank you, Bob. We also have just had a question come in from online, which, um, is for [00:47:00] the floor, um, which is, "Can the panel please explain what, um, they mean by gender-affirming care?" So do you know it? What, what do you know it as? Yeah, please tell us. I can start. You can start. You can start, Lauren, if you are No, go, go, you start. Um, gender-affirming care is, um, a care for people who, um... I'm just- Let me just think about this for a sec. Gender-affirming care is, uh, physical [00:47:30] care for pen- people with gender dysphoria or thereabouts. Lauren, you can articulate it, but I do, it's- Well, okay. Y- Yeah, y- you know I'm, I'm on the right- You're on the right. I just don't have the ... Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when I talked earlier about there being those two things, what I'd like to see in the healthcare sector is the one thing the gender-affirming care to look after our trans folk- Mm ... who, um, who need that there. But then the other part of that is, um, making sure just in general our health profession can respond to rainbow people, and Lauren will kindly [00:48:00] explain that better than I just did. Oh, right. Um, I mean, that's the thing. Gender-affirming care covers a very large scope of types of care. Gender-affirming care to me is anything that makes us thrive and more confident in our identities, and that encom- uh, encompasses a huge scope of things. It's healthcare, both physical health and mental health. Um, it was really important for me to have a well-trained ... I was very lucky to have a well-trained, uh, psychologist that dealt with gender identity, um, as a part of coming to terms with who I was, but I [00:48:30] was also very lucky to have a well-trained GP that knew all about informed consent, and making sure that I could get that first level of primary care of hormones, of access to services, of gender-affirming physio, which was a thing I didn't even know existed until I got there, which was really cool. Um, but it's also other forms of healthcare such as things like surgery, right? Which can encompass a lot of things. But gender-affirming care doesn't have to be just health. There are a lot of things it can do and can affirm your gender identity that aren't just based in healthcare. I'm [00:49:00] talking about legal recognition. I'm talking about identity. I'm talking about just making sure that your whānau have enough of the tools to know who you are, to know that you being you is okay, and that they are able to support you on your journey. Gender-affirming care is so many things, and it is a holistic model, and yeah. Thank you, Lauren. I don't think we need to get responses from every- everyone else, unless you feel really the need to. You can go, Josh, or [00:49:30] yeah. Are they looking at us back? Uh, I actually am not sure, sorry. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Since I'm s- seem to be the one who's offering an alternative view, shall we say Turn around and say hi. Hi. Hey, guys. Um, we, uh, under New Zealand First, we prob- we would, um, uh, we, we would, we would advocate more for a watchful waiting, uh, approach. It's just the def- de- uh, do you know what the definition of- Uh, definition of? Yeah ... gender-affirming healthcare is? [00:50:00] Yeah. I'll move on. Okay. Well, I'll define then. Um, I mean, it goes beyond, you know, just the sort of what immediately was bringing to mind. Like, t- it goes beyond just top and bottom surgery and hormones and, and blockers and so on. Um, it's mental healthcare. It is, uh, professionals and doctors and, and nurses and clinical staff and so on who are actually trained to deliver this kind of care. Um, we can't just sort of... There's not, it's not just sort of slapping GPs with the mandate of, "Hey, go make this healthcare work." It's actually making sure they're properly [00:50:30] resourced, properly trained to do that. I mean, there, there's so much, um, that encompasses gender-affirming care, and Lord knows Lauren, for example, is more qualified than I am to comment on that. But, um, yeah. Thank you, Joey. Sorry. After saying other people would know more about this than me, I actually have a, a different definition to everyone else, so I'm actually interested to see what, what you all think. I put gender-affirming care in a specific, um, trans healthcare or non-binary gender, um, [00:51:00] diverse healthcare dealing with the physical nature of healthcare, and I put having our whole health, uh, uh, all our health professionals responding well to rainbow needs in a different kind of care. That's rainbow need care, but gender affirming, I don't see it as that would be for all rainbow people. I'd say that is for people who are, um, uh, living in the wrong body and needing support with that. Thank you, Georgie. Uh, yeah, thank you for the questions online, [00:51:30] and, um, yeah, there's obviously I have ... Can we have a round of applause? Thank you. Yeah, I do wanna just say, um, just to end on this note, I think there's a lot obviously that divides our political parties today. But one thing that, um, we heard clearly tonight is that the issues that are facing our rainbow communities are real, and they also have real consequences for people's lives. Um, so perhaps for [00:52:00] the audience, we can listen to what's been promised and look at what's been done and what is being done. And a plea to our panelists, let's make sure that our rainbow communities remain a part of the conversation in Parliament after election day, and not just right now in the lead up. Thank you, everyone. Bye. Uh, tena ngā tau. Uh, before, before closing, I just wanted to make a few reflections. Uh, I wanna firstly [00:52:30] thank all of those, um, candidates who came here today, uh, and voiced their party's support for rainbow rights. Um, I thought it was really interesting one comment that was made, um, a candidate admitting that they do not support emancipation. Um, and so I thought it would be interesting to look at the definition of that word. Um, so according to the Cambridge Dictionary, emancipation means the process of giving people social or political freedom and rights. Uh, and so I thought that was an illustrative comment. Um, because [00:53:00] in this election- Might I, might I remind that you are supposed to be neutral when you facilitate No, I'm not, I'm, I'm not neutral, nor am I a facilitator. Um, I'm a representative of the PSA. Um, and what I will say, uh, is that we have an important opportunity in this election to vote for candidates who do support, uh, giving people social and political freedom and rights. Yeah. Uh, and it's incredibly important that we talk to our whānau, our friends, our [00:53:30] communities, uh, and ensure that everyone is voting in this election, uh, voting for emancipation, voting for liberation, voting for freedom. Yeah. Uh, and for those who profess social conservatism, I would also rem- like to remind them, uh, that they should reflect on the fact that gender diverse, um, identities have been accepted and celebrated on these shores ever since humans arrived here more than 800 years ago. Uh, to try and deny [00:54:00] the existence of our takatāpui whānau is a colonizing perspective. Yeah. Uh, and I would like to end on that note because as tangata whenua, we have always celebrated our takatāpui whānau. Uh, nō reira, huri rauna, uh, i tēnei, uh, whakaruruhu a tātou. Tēnei te mihi maioha ki a koutou katoa. Uh, nō reira, ka whakakapi i tēnei huihuinga mā tātou. Unuhia, unuhia, unuhia i te uru tapu nui a Tāne. Ka wātea, ka māmā te ngākau, te tinana, te wairua i te ara takatū. Ka wātea, ka wātea, ai rā, kua wātea. Rererere hau, pai marire, tuturu āwhiwhi[00:54:30] whakamaua. Kia tina. Tina. Haumi e, hui e. Tāiki e. Kia ora.
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