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Alison Laurie - KAHA Youth Hui 2009 [AI Text]

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For more information, visit WWW dot out there dot org dot NZ. Beautiful maiden, Handsome warrior and they they met, and their families weren't too happy about them getting together. And so I went and stayed with his friend out on the island in the middle of Lake, and they removed all the waka from around the whole town. [00:00:30] So hi could not travel over to see him. So she sat on what has become known as rock Commemorating that event. She sat there and thought, What can I do? And in the middle of the night, she swam out to because is often shown with the flute, and she followed the sound of that, and she swam in the night, freezing cold out to that island. And so as the story goes, the official story they got together it was beautiful. It is the beautiful love song the first Maori movie ever made [00:01:00] was about, and the first movie, actually, which had a Maori actor in it was about so It's a very, very famous story. What they didn't say is that when got to the island, she pretended to be a man to attract interest and when because there was a pressure always to, uh, get together to have your Children. So they did that. But they dabbled in other things, and when they were living together to coined the phrase I am dying [00:01:30] for love, for missing my And so his best friend eventually came to live with the both of them Because we know from wrote a lot of poetry and love songs to his male best friend. And this is where we find the word. Uh uh, two of our OLS and Smith both found that. So that term has become increasingly used. We have information from the 19 from the 17 [00:02:00] seventies and all through the 18 hundreds about people coming to this country and seeing same sex and both sex as common, absolutely accepted behaviour here. And so when we talk about our ancestors, even though they still were required to have Children once you did that, you could do whatever you like. Now I look back on that and I think then why was my father surprised when I came home and said I was lesbian? And I think why [00:02:30] when someone comes and says I like boys and girls, I can't choose where ancestors are going. Why just limit yourself to only those two and and I even think. And then I think about the grandparents looking at all their descendants and thinking, Where did we go wrong? You cannot all be straight. And and obviously there's a disconnect here because what happened, of course, [00:03:00] in the 18 forties is the colonisation of our country. Began in earnest, Uh, with the signing of the treaty, the treaty was an event and a legal kind of legal document. Uh, but it's the process of colonisation. So they bring in the missionaries. They bring in the things that say certain practises that would always target sexual practises. Always the first gotta go. And so it's a long road for our [00:03:30] people, then to, uh, come back to accept that are still part of who we are. And it's actually natural, and the straight ones are actually the ones that are a bit non-traditional. And so this is all by way of being a long winded introduction to Alison, our actual speaker for tonight. Uh, and now Alison Laurie, When I talk about people who leave a legacy and when it's so amazing to have these young people in the room is to remember all the things [00:04:00] that have happened before us before we were born, uh, before even I was born. And before that, For decades, a long, long time, people have been struggling for our rights on our behalf so that their Children and generations after could live a better life. And so I want to introduce, uh, Alison as and Cornish. She, I believe, invented or created a women's studies, lesbian studies, and now, gender studies. Uh, she was the first person [00:04:30] to do this in the whole of Australasia. She's legend around the world in terms of, uh, lesbian activists. A lot of people who have studied will have learned from Alison, and she's gonna pick up the story. So we had this huge influx of settlers coming into our country. Our people are being bombarded, and we're fighting for our land, our culture and our survival. And to you, I just put something in [00:05:00] front and like, Yeah, that's why. Thank you. You got a, um it's a great honour to, uh, to come here and speak with you today. Um, for me, you're the future, and so is that cat like, Wonderful. Thank you, puss. It's one of the familiar. [00:05:30] That's how to make an exit, People, Of course, once you know rebellious women, especially rebellious women who liked cats and and Yeah, And maybe if a cat, you know, spoke to you or when you were speaking in that way, that would be a sign, you know, that you were a witch and you'd be headed, uh, with a one way ticket, you know, to the state. Um and yes, it did happen. [00:06:00] Same sex attracted people. Uh, trends have always existed in every society forever. We know that. So why all the trouble? And there'd be a number of explanations to that. A lot of a lot of that, of course, is about power and control ways to, uh, ways that political different political authorities have wanted to [00:06:30] assert power and control. And and in many situations, we've been useful targets for them to build their oppressive movements, Uh, on a basis of ridding the world of us, uh, religions, which are another kind of organisation for power and control. And I don't mean spirituality, because that's something else. But many organised religions of every kind have made it their business to exterminate us [00:07:00] in one way or another. Um so those are some of those kinds of reasons Not every society has had, uh, those kinds of unpleasantness and and there there is no evidence at all that in Polynesia or in North America or South America before the advent of Europeans that there was any such problem as Elizabeth has shown. But sooner or later, you know, the invaders [00:07:30] come sailing in and they bring their laws and they bring their prejudices and they set it all up. If we go back a long way into almost kind of prehistory there, there are some of our most wonderful, uh, lesbian gay historians, people like John Boswell. And in fact, a whole generation of gay male historians died of AIDS. That's another terrible [00:08:00] thing. But John and John Boswell died of AIDS. Uh uh. He was, um, who wrote several very interesting books among them Uh uh, homosexuality, Christianity and social Tolerance. Very interesting book. And he says in there that there's evidence and he was a great learned scholar. Read many languages. He said they find evidence of, um, same sex unions, marriages. [00:08:30] If you like? Uh, certainly with, you know, rituals of some kind, Uh, among the Egyptians. Certainly. That's not unknown in Rome. In fact, Nero, uh, married a man at one point the dreaded Nero that, you know, fiddled while Rome burnt. Um, the Greeks had lots of same sex relationships. Um, both men and women. How people interpreted these relationships was probably different from from the ways we might do that today. Uh, but [00:09:00] there's certainly the evidence is there, Uh, and through all of those kinds of societies after the collapse of Rome, uh, we find similar patterns. Uh, we don't really find any. Um, you need great. Um, problem with it until you start getting according to Boswell until you get to the late Middle Ages. And this is because the the the single [00:09:30] event that changes everything and nothing is ever the same again as the as the great plague. The year of the Great Plague. The 40th. The plague in the 14th century changes everything in some countries. Two thirds of the population divis. Um, people don't have a germ theory of disease. They don't know how it's transmitted. They think God is punishing them. Um they become Christian by this point. Uh, in the monasteries of early modern Europe, Uh, Bos were found. They were, [00:10:00] um there were same sex unions between the monks. There were prayers and songs, uh, praising these kinds of relationships. Um, and one of the things and interesting. I'm glad the cat has spoken because at the moment the kids reminded me that one of the things one of the things that happened was because they started because they were so bewildered by [00:10:30] the death by the plague. They began, uh, persecuting. They looked for people who weren't practising Christianity. They they they targeted women and men who they said were witches. And one of the things that might condemn you as a witch was because you would have a lot of cats, and they killed cats because they said they were the familiar of the devil, so they killed millions of cats. Now, of course, they got an explosion of rats. And, of course, [00:11:00] bubonic plague is carried by the fleas that live on rats. So it in fact, exacerbated the situation. So more people died. Uh, so what they began to do there in the late middle Ages, was in searching their consciences about why God could be punishing them with the terrible disease they thought it must be because of the present people who weren't practising Christianity, for example, witches and Jews and also people committing sexual sins. So that's when they start looking in the Bible and they say, Ha, look, look, [00:11:30] You see, you're not supposed to have sex with the same sex, and you're not supposed to masturbate. So God bless the the punishing. So they developed this idea of a dreadful, punishing God that that just sits up there scrutinising you to catch you out. And once it's caught, you actually gonna be sent to punishment. So they develop a very nasty idea of a God which actually suits some people quite well, because it means that you can have a very controlling church [00:12:00] and very controlling bishops and priests and things if you do that. So the church changed really in those centuries, had began to have legislation against buggery and also against women lying together. But the main sin for women was any kind of gender transgression. Women in particular acting or aping men behaving like men. Um, so it's also about sex with women as it's a so some kind of transgression against [00:12:30] the social role. And the most famous of the trans Saints, of course, is Joan of A. And the reason she gets whizzed off to the stage. Um, because she refuses to take off her male clothing. And furthermore, she says, Saint Catherine and Saint Michael have said that I have to wear this suit of armour and lead an army, and I'm not taking it off. No, I'm not putting on my maids costume. So they said, Well, sorry about that. So off she went to [00:13:00] the state. But there's others. There are there are more friends who got, and that kind of transvestism actually is associated with earlier pagan religions and vice versa. Kinds of arrangements, Um, festival days where everybody cross dressed all kinds of things in the early pagan religions of Europe. Uh, but Christianity really wanted to step this kind of thing out. So you have the ecclesiastical courts which, uh, bring people up for them, [00:13:30] and we have some evidence, some records of some of that. The first law by the state taking over from the ecclesiastical courts is Henry, the eighth, 15 33. And that's the crucial year for legislation against any kind of well against buggery against sex between men. Women are ignored in that law. Um, Jane might say, What on earth would he be the AIDS be so worried about, you know, [00:14:00] guys screwing each other, But he wasn't. But it was an extremely useful law, because if you're taking over the church and becoming its head and you actually want excuses to raid monasteries and take their wealth, your armies and because you have a belief that the monasteries are full of guys screwing each other so you can rush in, put the soldiers in there, arrest a lot of them, take over their wealth and [00:14:30] their libraries close down the monasteries, and it works very well. So there appear to be political reasons for this kind of legislation. That law stays on the books in England, and there are similar laws in other parts of Europe, and hardly any countries have laws against women having sex together. And that's largely because most of the men in the church don't really believe it can be done, [00:15:00] and actually they have problems. Do they sit debating about whether or not uh how are you going to prove if analytical is taking place between two men? Is it enough to prove penetration alone? Or do you have to prove a mission? Serious discussion about this in some centuries? But with women, they're not sure. So often the women that you read the case that you read [00:15:30] about is they'll say, some woman who's got a an enlarged clitoris, which are probably intersex people. And so they'll get her and insist that she's been having sex with the devil and penetrating women with very large cli. And then there'll probably be another writer in the court. And then I saw her comment group that could play over the thank you. All these things are, [00:16:00] Yeah, so, um and yeah, so that's sort of the state of the law and the laws, The the it was the death penalty for for buggering but seldom applied because it was hard to prove. And in some of the accounts, for example, in uh, in some earlier times you get you get an account of people, uh, for example, a master who who's apprentice complains that that the master kept finding them and screwing [00:16:30] them, and the case is deferred, and he set set back to live with the master for another six months until the court meets again. So that's rather odd. John Grey is the historian who's looked at some of those cases. OK, so the laws were formed part of the 1960 the death penalty is, uh, is removed. Um, and it's these laws. That's the state of the law when, uh, this [00:17:00] comes through, uh, New Zealand. It's unclear whether the laws against homosexuality applied from 18 40 or whether they only applied from 18 58 which is the English Laws Act, which made it very clear that every law that was come to England in 18 40 applied to New Zealand. So that indicates to me, at any rate, that there might have been some difficulties between 18 40 18 58 as to whether or not, um, they could really [00:17:30] do much about it. But certainly they did after 18 58 and, uh, and as the century progresses, we get, uh, criminal convictions. And but with the passage of the, um, uh, Crimes Act in England, uh, in the 18 nineties, which was the law under which Oscar was convicted. You get amendment to that. And it says that any [00:18:00] sexual activity between men in public or in private will be punished by hard labour, etcetera. Oscar well is convicted of that law, and that law is an act in New Zealand. And that was, um, gave provided for, um, very lengthy Christmas sentences. Flogging, you know, very Christian, uh, and hard labour. And that was the, [00:18:30] you know, that was the state of affairs for a lot of the 20th century. Some reforms which happened removing, blocking, moving hard labour and so on. Um and so by the time we get to about 1961 which you get a big amendment of the crisis act, uh, you get, um, the first mention of women in New Zealand war, and that's to prohibit, um, sex between women over 21 and girls under 16. Uh, [00:19:00] and you might say, Well, that's right to protect young people. But the problem is, once you put it into law, you can play around with those ages, and then you can just say, Well, actually, we're going to criminalise the whole thing, So there is a danger that it's in the law At that point. Sentences at that point were seven years for men, mostly men got put in prison, a prison in New Plymouth. And from that time, um, you know, we all knew men who were entrapped and that really completely wrecked their lives. [00:19:30] Uh, I knew one guy who was, um he was entrapped in the sixties. He was a racing journalist. Uh, and, uh, worked for to digest. And when television began, he he did those first racing programmes and trapped in a toilet in the railway station, Um, went to prison, and of course, um after that was never allowed on a race course again, because you're not if you're a convicted criminal. So it was the end of his career, [00:20:00] so he, like many others, left New Zealand. So, actually, what we talk about a brain drain. We had a brain drain of many, many people for decades. People found it impossible to live here, and they didn't feel that anything could really be changed. And people who, um, in the post war period, you get the formation of early camp, uh, communities and the word that we use here was camp K a MP. [00:20:30] And it's a pun with camp camping. Yeah, probably. Um, stands for, um, known as male prostitute from police notebooks. Uh, at least that's the only origin that people have been able to find and came here from Australia. So influences into New Zealand come from Australia as well as from Britain, as well as from the United States, [00:21:00] not much from the United States before World War Two. With a whole lot of Americans here having Western recreation and more research is being done now on the kind of influences they brought with them, which was a pretty wild sex, um, for heterosexual and homosexual sex. And, um, certainly some people, uh, say that they think that New Zealanders did not [00:21:30] do a lot of horrible sex before the Americans came and introduced that as a very prevalent practise. I don't know how true that is or how you prove it, but should be interesting too. Anyway, um, there were a crowd. There were sort of visible people in the cities, uh, right from the beginning, and they certainly were in the country was full of people who managed somehow to live in couples managed somehow to to flip under [00:22:00] the dragnet and to live their lives easier for women because everyone would say, Oh, those two cops to women, you know, it's nice. They're keeping each other comfort because women don't have sex. So men do. Um, but the trouble, uh, about that, of course, is that, uh, and and the research that I've done, um, it's it was so difficult for women to earn an independent living. You can't live as a lesbian unless you [00:22:30] unless you're economically independent. So the liberation of lesbians is entirely tied to the economic, um, position of women. And if women can't earn a living, you can forget it. You could. I mean, you can Sure you can have an affair with the wife next door while you're both hiding from your husband. But you can't set up a household together or have a relationship or build a life together unless you can earn the dog [00:23:00] at that time. Um, so, men, um, you're going to be suspected of being queers. So there's some evidence that what some some men did in New Zealand and particularly in rural areas, was they pretended to be brothers. They shift to another area, get a farm together, pass themselves off as brothers, and then nobody would think anything of it. The other thing people did was these years again. They married each other and had LA marriages, which [00:23:30] sometimes not so happy. Because if that would also depend on, you know, some some, um, I know instances where some gay men became, actually quite, you know, forceful. And nobody's mind was gonna get off with women. I was like, But you are not going to. You were the mother of my Children. Can't have this unrestrained sex go on. The Children might see. [00:24:00] So there are differences between men and women because of the gender differences in our society and the different kinds of lives that men and women have had to lead. So, um, uh, from about the beginning of the 19 sixties, you get a phenomenon as the baby boom generation comes of age, and there are more young people than they have been before. And it's also a generation that has a strong sense of entitlement. [00:24:30] You know, people grow up in the shadow of the Second World War and are told that war was fought for you, you know, and things are quite good in New Zealand, there's free milk, the rules, you know, completely free education, Uh, from the cradle to the grave, if you want. It's a free health. You know, it's actually a much better deal than any of you who like, but this generation [00:25:00] have and there's full employment. So this generation has a sense of entitlement, and it's also more influence now from the United States because there's better communications. And there are radical changes happening there with the same generation. And also, of course, from Britain. Uh, with, uh, with some of the things that are happening there. And these are ideas about freedom, individual entitlement, liberty, um, and civil rights in the United States. And that's quite pertinent at the moment when we think of the [00:25:30] President Obama and some of the his harking back to, um, the legacy of Martin Luther King and the whole civil rights movement. And it's from that civil rights movement that is born the notion of, uh, those people who people became involved in that, especially what black people did. And then they came to their own situation. Women began to say, Well, it's really interesting here I am enrolling black voters in the Southern states of America, but actually I don't get [00:26:00] equal pay myself. And, uh, as a fact, um, the situation of women is really shitty. So women's aberration begins. And then a lot of, um, lesbians and gay men and bisexual people will be here to say, Well, yeah, and he there's laws against us and terrible things happening to us. So gay liberation happens. And these are movements which really start to promote change and which really overthrow the earlier ideas that people have held about [00:26:30] Same sex and, um, and trends. Um, and it's from this time and it's dated. Really, Uh, you know, Gang is said to have begun, you know, in 1969 in the Stonewall Bar in New York when, uh, the police yet again raided the bar. And this time we fought back, Um, including a big lot of, uh, dry queens and, um, [00:27:00] and put, uh, fought back. And this was an explosion throughout the world. Now, gay spread everywhere. Within within three years that come here 1972 begins gay at Ackland University by calling a meeting. It's called because she's been denied a visa to the United States because she's an acknowledged homosexual. And, of course, homosexuals were among the prohibited categories of people going to the states. Um [00:27:30] so meetings held and gala forms within six months. There are branches throughout the country, so Galib says Gay is proud. Gay is innocent. That's a really interesting statement which may not be meaningful to your generation, but for people who have been imprisoned, people who've been treated like shit and perverts people who have been despised by their families, people who have been fired [00:28:00] from their jobs, who had absolute no protection about anything and basically it internalised a lot of that like It's OK for me to be treated like this because really, I'm a worthless person. It's astonishing that suddenly there are people out on the street saying we are innocent, we've done nothing and gas trump and then the analysis And the theory goes further because gay liberation starts to say things which are radical even now, more radical than a lot of the uh statements [00:28:30] made by any of our current organisations. Gay liberation and subsequently lesbian feminism says we want to bring out the lesbian and gay man and everybody's head. We don't think there are just special people who do this. We think everybody chooses to doing that. And actually, what is really weird is heterosexuality. Why is he probably being forced into it? And why? Why are people trying something else? What's wrong with all these people [00:29:00] that have never tried it? And, of course, this is as we move into the seventies, you get, uh, and when people talk about the sixties very often, they mean the seventies, um so in the seventies is when a lot of these things start to happen. Uh, here. Um, from 1973 we we started the first lesbian organisation here, sister for hoop equality. Bizarre name, you might think. Well, you couldn't use that no newspaper would, because it's pornographic. [00:29:30] I personally went to the press in Christchurch and tried to make them. They wouldn't, I thought, um, because I was getting very agitated about them, you know, refusing my advertisement? Um, the, um so that was an acronym. She so that worked. And and we started the first magazine called the Circle. Um, gay men had organised someone earlier with, [00:30:00] uh, with the Dorian Society in 1962 largely a social organisation. But with the legal subcommittee of the Dorian Society in 1963 that was here in Wellington, the first premises were, uh, in street and that had several venues around Wellington. In fact, we've got a big project on at the moment uh, recording the stories of men who are involved with the society and of women who are involved with Club 41 a lesbian club which emerged out of she, [00:30:30] uh, and started 1974. And that was called 41 because it was at 41 Vivian Street. So these are the first beginnings of organisations, and soon, toward the end of the seventies, we get the national gay rights Coal, the NGRC, which the GRC, uh, was an umbrella organisation with, uh with over 30 affiliated kinds of lesbian gay organisations. [00:31:00] The only one of which still exists is Marlboro. Uh, the GRC starts very clear objectives about changing the law, but also changing attitudes. Um, and there was an uneasy relationship between the older the older, uh you know, uh, members of the various communities and younger people. Younger people [00:31:30] feel that it's more important to change attitudes, uh, than to simply change the law, whereas many older people feel Oh, if only we can just get that law changed, we'll just duck under the bed and no one will ever we won't bother people. We just we we are not different from you. We just want the law changed and we promise not to be in your face, you know, whereas, uh, younger people felt it was very important to be in your face now for many people. But I remember constructions where people would actually say to one [00:32:00] another, You know, this is sort of pre gay liberation, or around that time, you know, what would your worst night be be? You know, people would say, Oh, God, just imagine if you wake up in the morning and you know your name was in the newspaper saying that you were queer, you know, Um, but within a very short space of time, we had people out on the streets openly with placards saying Hi, mum, and really doing in your face stuff [00:32:30] and really committed to changing things and willing to make any kind of sacrifice. And there are people who have made fantastic sacrifices so that you could sit here today and I could name them, but their names won't mean anything to you. And it should because you've been deprived of the system. I'll give you one man's name. Jack Goodman. Jack spent Jack was an albino, so he had. He was minority [00:33:00] in many respects, uh, gay, from when he was very young, went overseas and got himself together. Came back in 1962 with a form the, uh, legal subcommittee of the Dorian Society and worked tirelessly from 1962 through the 1984 when he died. And he never saw homosexual law reform, but he fought for it. And when you look when you go through the the the archives, which are, uh, in the, uh, in [00:33:30] the National Library, the Archives of New Zealand, there's a big fat file of materials from Jack Woodland. We see every day looking in the newspapers, writing letters, writing letters to people, standing out there, taking all kinds of shit, you know, and just working his butt off. And so that's why you know, it didn't just come from nowhere. Liberation doesn't just happen. People don't say Oh, goodness me. I never realised you wanted equal pay. [00:34:00] Let me give it to you. Oh, goodness! I didn't realise that women wanted to clothes. Oh, dear me, We'll just change them all straight away. Gosh. Oh, look. Oh, dear me. We must just do that. It doesn't happen like that. You fight for it and you lose and you fight again and you go on and on and you don't give it up. And part of the rationale for [00:34:30] a lot of the people who fought and another one whose name I'll give you is Barry Neals, Extraordinary man. Uh, who also fought indefatigably who had parties at his house long before the Dorian began, was pleased when the Dorian began, because then they didn't have to have them. Everyone at their house, he lived at the top of Hay Street. He was part of the Kiwis. The Drake performers in World War Two. Uh, his partner was Paul McGill, and Paul went to prison for five years during World War Two as [00:35:00] a conscientious objector that takes courage and in the camps. And they kept them in the camps until 1946 until every man came back from overseas. Uh, in the country camps, there were lots of gay men, so they're a wonderful example. They were pacifists. They stood up for what they believed. And somebody like Gill, who who came from that kind of background fighting for homosexual law reform and gay rights was just another [00:35:30] step on that road for standing up for your beliefs and saying, I don't care what shit they throw at me. It's worth it. I'm not gonna be there. I'm not gonna be one of these people that, you know sits about calling up the bum of my employer, pleasing my parents, uh, pleasing people. People pleasers are not to be trusted, you know, um, because they'll sell you out every time, because in some way, they want to smooth the [00:36:00] path for themselves. So, um, commitment, commitment to a cause requires many other things of us. Anyway, to cut a very, very long history shorter. Um, homosexual law reform, uh, was finally achieved in 1986 after the most terrible campaign, A campaign where, uh, the opposition forces organised very strongly were funded from overseas from [00:36:30] all kinds of organisations connected to the American religious right, which, of course, was very politically active. They were very well funded And, um, the country was completely divided. Uh, they took a petition from door to door. They took it to workplaces. Um, they were there in the street with it against homosexual law reform. Uh, many people signed it themselves because people were frightened in their workplace. They were, if you don't sign this and then they went [00:37:00] home and talked themselves because they've done that as you would the many did you know. So there were. There's many things these people have on their consciences. I hate the Salvation Army. I've never given them a P since that day they took the petition. They might apologise, but they never actually made that good. And they never really understood what they did to us. The harm they cause and the pain they caused to desert people. Our and they still [00:37:30] Yeah, that's right. That's right. Don't give them any money. If you want to give to a charity, if you got things you want to give, you know, to a shop, give things to the hospice shop, buy things in the hospice shop, and then they They're good people. The Salvation Army are not. Yeah, the second part of the bill was lost. Um, but that came again in 1991 and we got that passage through in 1993. And that was [00:38:00] the addition of sexual orientation to the Human Rights Act, which means prevention of discrimination and employment and housing and goods and services doesn't mean people can't be bloody and nasty. And we haven't got any legislation against hate crimes, but at least that law will protect you, and you can take cases against it if you prepared to be out. Of course, you can't take cases if you, you know, are prepared to be out. That's a bit of a for. But at least that has laid the groundwork for subsequent [00:38:30] legislation which has occurred, you know, in this century, um, such as the Civil Civil Union legislation in 2004, such as the right now to, um uh to have the partner's name on birth certificates for Children, uh, and forms around adoption and these kinds of things. Not everything has been done. So I'll say that the all of this begins, really? Not even so much in [00:39:00] the political organising. But in the courage of the men and women and the others Who, um who kind of formed the basis of those first camp communities around Wellington, Auckland, Christchurch, Um, people who, uh, people who hung out in the in the British and little, uh, people who were prepared to be visible and out there got persecuted by the police. [00:39:30] But we had a sense of community and kept it going through those dark times. And from that basis, the political organisations could emerge as a new generation came with better education and a better sense of entitlement so that we are where we are today. But everything that you've got isn't you know, isn't set in concrete. But if you go like that so the price of this is eternal vigilance [00:40:00] and it's being prepared to say other people fought to give me his freedom to keep them, and I would fight to hand them off. Now the motto I went to on his the motto was Take the lies and hand it on. I think that's a very good motto. Take the light and hand it on. Don't bloody extinguish it. Don't say Oh well, you know, I've got it. So everything's fine. You have to preserve that flame and you have to make sure you can hand it off. And you must say the same thing that I and [00:40:30] others said when we would sit around. And that was a baby that's being born right now. And as we the baby being born, you know they're just shouting out right now, and some of them are going to be clear and the way they live their lives, what's there for them in 20 years time when they come to adulthood is up to you. What you do now, what you do now will make that world for them and make sure it's a bloody good world. Same. [00:41:00] This audio was brought to you by out there. For more information, visit WWW dot out there dot org dot NZ.

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AI Text:September 2023