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It's important to tell my story because I never ever want it repeated again what happened to me. And I think it's also important for people to know just what hard times we went through in the 70s. Shall we start at the beginning? Well, I [00:00:30] After I left Kashmir High School, I pursued my nursing career. Nursing in our family, my sister was a nurse, my mother was a nurse, and grandmother and my nieces, nieces are all nurses. And I started my career at Burwood Hospital. And I was there a year and a half, and doing well. Uh, and I [00:01:00] never, but I never ever hid my sexuality. And through that, the consequences were I was picked on by the staff and blamed for taking drugs off a trolley. And so I became a little bitch. Oh, I don't know, what's the word? Naughty, I suppose. And we were meant to be in by 10 o'clock and I'd come in at 10 30 and stuff like that. And in [00:01:30] the end, uh, I got told that I had a problem and I needed to go and see a doctor at the hospital. So one of the tutors drove me to the hospital and I was seeing psychiatrist there and was admitted that day. Um. And that was the end of my nursing career. Uh, started off, I was told I had a personality disorder. And then I was told I had [00:02:00] schizophrenia. And I was given copious amounts of drugs. Absolutely, you know, unheard of amounts of drugs. I was like a walking zombie. And shock treatment once, sometimes twice a day. For years and years and years. And it took away my memory of surfing, my sister's wedding. It just wiped out [00:02:30] my best friends. And I've got no memory of anything like that. It took it away. But the one thing they didn't take away was my sexuality. I'm still me. I'm still Joan. I'm still gay. Yeah. There is so much in what you've, um, talked about just in the last minute or two and I'm wondering, do you mind if we just, um, go back slowly through some of that material? Sure. So, um, you were saying that you [00:03:00] grew up in Kashmir, so what kind of, um, years are we talking in Christchurch? What is this like, the 50s and 60s? I've been, yes, I've been in Christchurch all my life. I'd go to Sydney, you know, for small periods of time, go to Wellington for small periods of time, but I'd end up coming back to Christchurch, yes. Can you describe what Christchurch was like in the [00:03:30] 50s and 60s? Um, it was very, uh, closed and, uh, I, my, a very good friend of mine next door, he was different and all our neighbours were told to keep away from him because something was strange about him, it turned out Brian turned into Beverly and was a very good friend of mine. And [00:04:00] so You know, he had a terribly hard time in the 60s. I mean, it was just shocking. You know, I've had a very supporting mother, but in the 50s and 60s, I don't have much memory. Um, I had a pretty good upbringing myself. I was brought up in a religious family, and sexuality wasn't talked about, you know. And, and when people talked in the 60s about, um, [00:04:30] somebody's sexuality, I mean, did they even use language that described it or it was just something other, something that just wasn't talked about? It just wasn't talked about, yeah, yep. It just, yes, I mean, we had no understanding of anything like that in the 60s, in the 70s, you know, because we used to go to gay dances and all that sort of stuff. It was more open, but, um, [00:05:00] it was still not publicised or anything, no one knew anything about dances or, you know. Gay bars or anything like that because it wasn't talked about still in the early 70s. We just, it was kept very underground. Yes. So can you recall the first time you became aware of your own sexuality? Probably at high school. Yeah. Or when all my friends were, you know, wanting to meet boys and going out [00:05:30] with boys and I didn't want to. Yeah. And can you describe what that realisation was like for you? Um Well, it's strange because it wasn't that scary because I'm a person, I don't hide anything. And even though I knew that it was going to be hard for me, I just carried on with life. And that's what got me into [00:06:00] trouble, that's why I ended up in hospital. Because I didn't hide anything. I certainly wasn't going to get married. And have children, because I knew that it was going to cause pain for myself, whoever I married, and you know, so I didn't go down that track. I just, I carried on being me, and that's what got me into trouble, really. I mean, if I'd, my majority of my friends in that high hid it, or got married, or because, you know, they didn't want people to [00:06:30] know, um, which also got themselves into trouble. But I just carried on being me, and it was a heartache for my parents because I used to, like the British Hotel in Lyttelton was well known for gay people. And um, at that stage I was very young and um, there was a police raid and they asked my age and then rang my parents and told me, come and get me, I was at the Gay bar in Lyttelton, [00:07:00] you know. So that's when my parents first realisation that I was gay. Although they didn't use the term gay. Yeah. At what age would that have been? Um, I was probably 17. Yeah. I just, you know, I wanted, I was probably, uh, but I just, I wanted to go out, I wanted to have fun, um, I knew I was different to my friends and I knew things were going on [00:07:30] and I just thought, you know, I want to go for it, so yeah. So can you describe that, that, that, that part? Yeah, it was, uh, it was really exciting. At that stage, you know, we used to get, uh, a lot of my friends apparently were gay men and there used to be a lot of boats coming and they would, we could get free beer on the boats. Um, it was good music. Um, [00:08:00] there was, um, I can remember there was a gay guy. playing the piano all the time. I can't remember his name now. And it was just really known as a, quite a hip bar at the time for gay people. But, but everyone else used to think, oh, the British, oh, wouldn't go there, you know. It was, hmm. So, how did you become aware of it? Well I also, I can remember, one thing I can [00:08:30] remember, and I must have been at the end of going to High school. I can't really remember anything about high school, but I can remember one time Leaving at lunchtime going to a bar in town Called the Gresham, which was also a bit of a gay bar and people said, oh you should go to the British It's you know, it's it's absolutely buzzing at night, you know with gay people. So that's when I started finding out about the [00:09:00] British Yeah. Much to my parents horror. And you, yeah, because you were saying that your parents didn't actually use the word, say, gay. Oh no. So what, like, how did they, how did they phrase things? Well they didn't. Well they didn't, and as soon as, as I got put into hospital they thought, Oh, so we can understand now, Joan's sick and she's not well, that's why she's, yeah. And so they, whatever the doctor said [00:09:30] to them was. Right. So they thought, you know, oh, Joan's behavior's like this because she's not a well girl. Yeah. And this is at a time when, uh, homosexuality was seen as a mental disorder? Absolutely. Absolutely, yeah. Christchurch is really fascinating in terms of, um, queer history because there were things like the Parker Hume Murder in [00:10:00] 1954, there was the Charles Ahart, uh, killing in 1964. But thinking about the Parker Hume murder, both, I think the prosecution and the defense, uh, brought up the lesbianism of, of the two girls. Were, were you aware of, you know, either the or the Parker Hume cases? Well, we were led to believe with the Parker Hume cases that they weren't gay. You know, and, and [00:10:30] didn't think any more of that. Um, the other, the other one that you mentioned, yes, I, I was aware that, of what was going on and just, you know, how biased, especially in Christchurch people were. And it was quite dangerous, I mean, I, I used to, for example, um, when people knew around here that I was gay, I used to have on my fence people with spray paint, lesbian, and, [00:11:00] and stuff like that, yeah. So it was, in that sort of instance, you kept pretty quiet in Christchurch, because the people were quite, uh, I don't know what's the word to use. Um. So the spray paint, was that happening more in the kind of 1980s, like around law reform? Yes, yes it was. It was. There was a lot of hate too, you know, a terrible lot of [00:11:30] hate. Shocking. So jumping back to the, it was the 70s wasn't it when you were going, or the kind of late 60s when you were going to the various pubs like the British? Uh, it would be the 70s, early 70s, yeah. How did the police treat you? I can't remember, I'm sorry, yeah. I think, you know, they just thought that as a young girl it shouldn't, shouldn't be [00:12:00] a Yeah, because of course at the time it was 21, was the age, yeah, and I would have only been 17, so, it was, in those days it was pretty unheard of. So did you go straight from high school into nursing? Yes I did, yes, yep. And why nursing? Um, I just was [00:12:30] I felt sort of secure and I thought that it was, you know, that was my calling at the time. I mean, there was other jobs I wanted to do, like I loved watching my dad fix the car and I would have loved to have had a job with mechanics or something like that, but it was unheard of. And I actually wanted to be a taxi driver and my mother thought that that was absolutely absurd for a woman to be a taxi driver. And um, also I tried to be an [00:13:00] orderly at PMH where they'd put me in because I mean, I knew the hospital so well and that, and that was unheard of, there was no woman orderlies in those days, so I mean it was pretty restricted what we, you know, were able to do. Once I got in, I still loved my nursing and apparently, you know, I would have done very well with my nursing but, you know, I just, it wasn't carried on. And we should say that, um, PMH [00:13:30] stands for? Princess Margaret Hospital, yeah. So can you remember any, um, other rainbow people in nursing at that time? One, yes, yes, one. One that I can remember, apparently, um, something that happened when I was nursing, um, and we were all sitting out on the balcony, and my very good friend, he [00:14:00] was a male nurse, now I can't remember whether he was gay or not, I have a feeling he was. He fell backward off his chair and fell onto the ground floor and was killed, but I've got absolutely no memory, it's, my memory's gone as far as that. So I've got a feeling that he was gay too. Yeah. And, and was it accidental? His death? Yes, absolutely. He just fell backwards apparently. And, yeah. So can you describe [00:14:30] how, how I, I guess how overt you were in terms of your sexuality, um, as you were going through the, the nursing training? I mean, was it, was it a big thing for you? It was important. It was important that. I felt that, you know, I didn't want people to think I was straight. Um, and I had to conform to doing things that all my other friends did. So I stood my grounds and, [00:15:00] you know, it just, it wasn't accepted. It was definitely not accepted in that profession. How does it manifest itself when you're not conforming, when you're not wanting to appear to be straight? I guess it, it looks like I, to, to them, it would've looked like I was just, um, a non-conformist and that, that I didn't want to obey any rules, you know, because Sure. [00:15:30] I, I guess that I probably, when I think about it now, I was doing things because they told me not to do them because. They wouldn't accept who I was, so, you know, it appeared that I was really being a non conformist and, and, that wasn't, in those days, I mean, nursing was like being in the army. You know, you had to be in by a certain time. Um, you know, certain clothes you had to wear, even in mufti, you [00:16:00] know, um, Oh, it was all, you know, rules, rules, rules, rules, rules. And, uh, Yeah, it got me into trouble, so that was the end, yeah, for me, for my nursing, yeah. My sister, she was very successful in her nursing and, you know, in the end she, uh, she was right up there and she owned nursing homes and all sorts of things, [00:16:30] yeah. So I think my parents probably thought that You know, my sister had done so well, and Joan, because of her illness, you know, didn't get anywhere. Do you think you were targeted because of your lesbianism? Uh, 100%. Yeah. And was that from both the kind of the staff and the fellow [00:17:00] students or? Oh not from the students as far as I can remember. I mean I was pretty well liked. You know, I got on well with everyone and that. It was just the staff, yeah. So what would they do? Well, from what I can remember, and, and a lot of it's been cut out, but as I said, I, there's no way I would have stolen drugs off the drug trolley, I would, that's just not me, and I was blamed for that, and [00:17:30] it affected me quite a bit, I was quite upset, um, I, exam papers, there was one tutor and she put on the bottom, if you think you're going to be a nurse, that's a laugh, In the end I burnt those papers. I wish I'd held on to them now. But yeah, it was comments like that apparently. And I'm a pretty, at the time, a fairly sensitive person too. So it was sort of a build up I was getting. Picked on, I suppose. [00:18:00] And, uh, you know, and then it was the being driven to the hospital, being told that I needed to see a doctor. So, yeah. One and a half years I was nursing. It was a three year course at the time. I did one and a half years. Can you recall what happened on that particular day when they said, actually you need to go to the hospital now? I can just vaguely. Thinking this is ridiculous. This is really [00:18:30] ridiculous. Um, you know, I can't wait to get well. Get back with my mates and we'll have a few drinks, blah, blah, blah. Never for a minute thinking, you know, I'll be kept in hospital that night. Yeah, and that was the complete end of me going back to Burwood Hospital. I can't even remember what happened about my clothes, all my belongings, the nurse's home, I can't remember. I never saw my friends again. [00:19:00] I didn't know that my memory would be taken away from me. But I certainly didn't think that was the last time I'd see my friends or it'd be the end of my nursing career, yeah. What age were you at this point? About eighteen and a half, I think, yeah, yeah. To me that is just so unimaginable to be at, to be taken out of, out of where you are and just transported [00:19:30] into another environment. I know. I know. I actually, um, there was this Margaret Moon who was a, uh, psychologist there at the PMH and she was an amazing woman and she's just recently passed away. And she, one of the reasons she left was she couldn't stand to see what was happening to me. Um. And we kept in [00:20:00] touch, what was I, I've just lost my train of thought, um. Oh, and she said, you went into hospital, a bright, young girl, standing up straight, looking, you know, having great complexion, and she said, and she said, six months later I saw you and you were like a pale, walking zombie who didn't recognize anybody. She said, you went into hospital a well person, and you were getting sicker and sicker and sicker. Yeah. And she couldn't do [00:20:30] anything about it. Yeah, it was. Yeah. When you hear that, I mean, how does that make you feel? Well, it's strange. I was just telling my partner, Margaret, it didn't, for a long time, it hadn't really affected me. But as I'm getting older, it's starting to make me just realise this, this, The horrificness of it all, you know, it's actually now, it's [00:21:00] hitting me harder now in my 70s than it did in my 50s and 40s. Probably because I had, uh, you know, I mean, I, I refused to let it rule my life, what had happened to me and, um, I kept, but now that I've got time to sit and, you know, I'm not so busy in that, and reflect on it, yeah, it hits me harder now. And that's, this Royal Commission, it's really [00:21:30] important to me that I get my word out there. But I also, you know, I very strongly say this now. I think I should be compensated for what happened to me. And I'm sorry if that sounds callous, but I'm at the stage in my life, I really and truly think there should be some sort of compensation for what's happened to me. Uh, and I was too, too ashamed to say that before because I don't know why. I was just [00:22:00] ashamed to say it, but now I'm at the point in my life and I realize just how horrific it all was. Yes, there should be some compensation. Yeah. You've mentioned a couple of times in terms of the, um, the loss of memory. Have you found over the years that memories have come back or partial memories have come back? Nah. Well, it's quite strange because we went with our neighbours to an Italian restaurant the other [00:22:30] night. It's a well known restaurant. And, uh, we sat down, and this woman came, the owner of the place came rushing over to me, and her hands, her arms, and, Joan! And I hadn't had a clue who she was, and apparently we were very, very good friends at Kashmir High. And, uh, she told me a few things that we did, and it brought back a few memories, yeah. So, sometimes if I'm [00:23:00] reminded of something, I can I've had a lot of instances. I had a friend, Beverly, who was a transsexual, and she bought a gay guy that I used to flat with, and I couldn't think who he was, I had no idea, and as soon as he came to the door and I saw his face, there was something there I could remember. And he, he told us of all the things that we did [00:23:30] together, and it was, it sounded fabulous, you know, really, really nice person. He's in Sydney now. Yeah. So those first moments, um, at Princess Margaret, can you, I mean, can you recall that, or just the feeling of, I mean, what that felt like? Well, at first, You know, I lost all confidence in [00:24:00] myself. And I thought, oh my god, I must be really sick. And I saw these people around me, like there was a woman who was, she'd been in the concentration camp and she was a Jew. She kept hitting her head on the wall. And there was another woman who threw the TVs. And I thought, What am I doing here? You know, these people, these poor people are very sick. But then I started [00:24:30] to get sicker myself because of all the medication and the shock treatment. And the only place I felt secure in the end was the hospital. You know, I felt totally, they made me feel totally insecure when I wasn't in the hospital. Yeah, it went from feeling frightened to feeling like I, I was totally, what's the word, um, Oh, there's a word for it when you need to be in [00:25:00] hospital. Like when you're institutionalised? Institutionalised, yeah, yeah, yep. And, yeah, apparently at one stage, I can remember disliking myself so much that I was begging for the shock treatment and they'd give it to me, you know. And then another time I can remember, they called my parents in and they said that we've got some news that Joan is a schizophrenic and they [00:25:30] didn't know what that meant and they said it's like her brain's crumbling. And, yeah. She won't get better and, you know, she's going to slowly deteriorate and then I can remember all my family members having a prayer meeting and and you know gathering around and holding each other and praying for me and all this thinking that you know, I was going to end up being a Vegetable or whatever. And there were no, you know, I mean, they were trying all these trial [00:26:00] drugs out on me. I mean, I've got a list of the drugs I was on. And you wouldn't believe it. I mean, it was just shocking. Absolutely shocking. So that initial time when you were brought to the hospital, I mean, what did the doctors say? Can, can you recall like, I mean, how did they, uh, were you there for assessment or what, what was the kind of reason? Yes, I, I can remember the doctor that [00:26:30] assessed me and, uh, all they seemed to focus on was how often I had sex, how did I do it, yeah, what was it like, and I kept getting all the time questions about, you know, sex, as if sex was the, Bug bear of it all. And, and it frightened me in the, when I was having shock treatment, this doctor was quite creepy. And, and I felt frightened when I knew that, you [00:27:00] know, after I'd go out to it, that I didn't know what was happening to me. And I was, I think they were, some of them are quite perverse in their, just in their questioning and that, and, yeah. Were they seeing, um, lesbianism as a, as a kind of symptom for a kind of a mental disorder? Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And how did you see [00:27:30] it? Well, as I said, I, I, I I didn't think I was sick, but after being in there, you know, possibly six months, I thought I was very sick. I thought I was, I hated myself. I, I tried to take my life just about every day. I hated myself so much and I never succeeded. So I sort of gathered that I didn't really want to die, but I had absolutely hated, [00:28:00] dislike. I couldn't look in the mirror myself. I, I just It took me a long time to learn to like myself again, yeah, yeah. As this was going on, how did your family react? Well, it's really strange because, you know, I had the most, I had an absolutely wonderful family. My father was an absolutely amazing man. [00:28:30] But they were, you know, they saw me getting sicker and the doctors kept telling them I had this severe illness and they thought that I was in the right place. Except they did question, like one time they were going to Fiji and I was meant to be going with them. But I, they wouldn't let me out of hospital because I had double pneumonia. I was so filled up with drugs I couldn't walk and I'd been lying on the bed for so long. [00:29:00] That I got double pneumonia, and, and mum said, but this, you know, she started to question What, why is all these things happening to this healthy young girl? But, but of course the doctors still talked them into thinking, you know, well, this is, this is how it is, so Joan, so yeah. From your perspective of what the doctors and nurses were thinking, I mean, I'm trying to understand whether I mean, did they think they were [00:29:30] helping you? Or was this more a Do you feel it was more a sinister thing that they were actually trying to cure you of your homosexuality? I mean, what do you think was going through their heads? I think that they thought they were trying to help me but also I think there was an underlying sinister, you know, Something was wrong somewhere because I can remember. I [00:30:00] was well enough. Mum and dad were going to Nelson, and they said I could come and I was on such heavy drugs. I was in the car and I was starting to hallucinate, so they stopped off at Blenheim to see this doctor or a and e or something, and they took a blood test and they nearly went through the roof. They said, what the hell? What? You know, change this. Blood, everything's so high, you know, [00:30:30] and they said Joan needs to go to, there was a hospital in Nelson, a psychiatric hospital, in there, and get her blood levels, you know, all the drugs dropped. And so I was put in this hospital, and then I was surrounded with people, they were all mostly Down Syndrome people, and I was put in this hospital. And they didn't want to send me back to Christchurch, because [00:31:00] they thought that all the shock treatment that was going, so they were trying to get me off or lower all my drug level. But because I was so dependent on everything, they, in the end, they kept giving me all the drugs again. And in the end, they gave me some shock treatment at this hospital at Nelson. And all I can remember is being sent back by ambulance, so, uh, I should. to Princess Margaret Hospital. [00:31:30] So I went from one hospital to another. So, it looked like it was gonna be, they were gonna, you know, help me get off all these drugs that Princess Margaret were putting me on, but in the end they just sent me back to Princess Margaret. So, I don't have much memory of it, but I have a, I was thinking, you know, they were sort of looking at me as I was definitely IHC. When I was out of hospital, they'd put me in this. What was it? It was like a big [00:32:00] factory and they were all mainly Down Syndrome people. And, and we had to, I think it was, put envelopes, TV guides into envelopes or something like that. And I was thinking, why? Why am I, you know, what's, what's happening to me? All of a sudden I was being from a teenage person into a, you know, really handicapped person. And I was, uh, and I just, I just kept trying to kill [00:32:30] myself. I couldn't stand it. I just thought, you know, what, what, what the hell am I doing on this earth, this planet? You know, I'm no good to anybody. I can't do it, and they're just making me feel terrible, so it was shocking. And then, I don't know if I'm skipping to this, but I met my partner who was Asian, and I decided, hey, this is ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. So I got [00:33:00] myself away from the hospital. They never Ever followed me up, I went cold turkey for a year and a half. I had hot sweats every night, nightmares, shaking, shivering. I did it on my own for a year and a half. Went off all the drugs, including sleeping pills and all that. And, uh, that's how I got, that's how I got myself away from the hospital. Yeah. So, [00:33:30] in hospital, in the 70s, uh, Do you think it was the drugs and the shock treatment, it was a bit of a self perpetuating cycle so that actually, um, you know, you were, um, attempting suicide and that just because of the results of all the effects of those different medications? Absolutely. And I, I just, I felt that I wasn't a good person and I certainly weren't. Person that my parents could be proud of. Even though my [00:34:00] father, you know, he always said he was proud of me, but I just felt that, you know, I wasn't someone they could be look up to. Yeah. Can you describe what, uh, an average day was like at, uh, when you, when you were at Princess? My group? Sure. Um. As an inpatient, um, well, the room had six beds, um, [00:34:30] and in the mornings they'd come round with a drug trolley. It would all be administered drugs, um, then they'd come round with a trolley with breakfast. There was no, we didn't have any groups where there was talking or anything like that. You were just treated like, uh, you know, you lay in your bed and, [00:35:00] um, We had walks around the hospital. We'd all walk in groups around the hospital. If you, you know, like for me sometimes I'd try and run away to get away from hospital and they'd, I'd come back and they'd give me a, what's called a salt warm water enema. You know, for running away and it was very, very painful and I did that a few ti I got that a [00:35:30] few times, it was sort of a punishment thing. And one time I tried to jump into the river, I just, I'd had enough and someone got me out, I can't remember. And I got, I remember having this, it was in a warm salt water in there where it was Almost hot, so watering them, that was horrific, that was shocking. And then I was put, I started to get, after that, go downhill and I got put into a single room. And they took [00:36:00] away. The bowel, uh, I just, it was just a room with nothing in it. And if I wanted to go to the toilet, I had to yell out and I didn't have the strength to yell out 'cause I was so weak from all the drugs I was on. And, uh, so consequently, I can remember one time trying to get out into the corridor saying what? And I didn't make it. And I got severely punished for that. Really, and I got shot [00:36:30] treatment, I think I got it twice that day. And I can remember that's when they burnt my scalp. And then the second, when I had it in the afternoon, they put the electrodes onto the burns again. So I got permanent scarring. Yeah, so, um, and then I would come round, you know, on a drug trolley again, it would be a drug trolley, which seemed to be coming round all the time. [00:37:00] And then I can vaguely remember there was drug addicts coming in, and they were getting their methadone in little cups, and sometimes they'd be given shock treatment. And this is jumping the gun a bit. I was told I was a schizophrenic, an alcoholic, and a drug addict. Well, I just was a social drunker, I weren't a schizophrenic. And I never ever took IV [00:37:30] drugs. And anyway, consequently, many years later, I got Hepatitis C. And my theory is that when I, they put electrodes on my head, they never changed the electrodes. Uh, they wiped them with a cloth. Put from one person to the next, and they were having drug addicts coming in and having shock treatment, and I believed, because of my seeping wounds, that's how I got Hep C. Well, [00:38:00] straight away, it was totally Uh, you know, I, absolutely not. I wouldn't, that wouldn't, but I worked at the Hepatitis Resource Centre and they said that it's absolute, that it's highly probable. But, uh, I helped my, a few of my friends who got Hepatitis C and they didn't get it through drugs. And they got an apology from the Prime Minister and 70, 000. When it came to me, I put in my claim, it was [00:38:30] poo pooed, I didn't get it. So, you know, once again it was, you know, I just feel like I've been pushed aside a lot, yeah. Just getting back to that enema. What was the purpose medically for that? Well, it was an [00:39:00] unpleasant thing. And sure, we were all, all of us were constipated because of, you know, the copious amounts of drugs we were on. But it seemed to be also used as a punishment. Whenever anything they weren't happy about, all of a sudden you'd be told you're having a salt and water enema. You know, and that's one thing that really sticks in my brain there at the hospital. Do you think also that, um, say [00:39:30] medication was used as a punishment as well? Or, why did they use such copious amounts of medication? I believe, uh, probably, I believe they definitely used me as a case for trial drugs because they were never quite sure of my diagnosis. And um, I, I really can't remember much about the other people but I know that most people weren't on the amount of drugs that I was on and I [00:40:00] believe that it was, I was definitely used as the guinea pig. Yeah. So initially was it the um, you were put on medication and then did, did, did that then move into um, electroconvulsive therapy? No, I think the electroconvulsive therapy was more or less given, I think I had that probably the day after I was admitted. Yeah, it was being used so much, uh, [00:40:30] in those days, you know. In fact, that psychologist I told you about, she opened up to this doctor about how her father had committed suicide and she'd never really got over it. And, uh, she was pregnant at the time, and he said, I know the answer for you, and he gave her some shock treatment. And she said, that son, she had two other sons, and one ended up being a doctor, and one ended up [00:41:00] being a, I can't remember, lawyer or something. And the son, when she was pregnant, when she gave birth to him, he ended up, He was, uh, he didn't have jobs and he was unemployed, you know, things went wrong and, yeah. And she opened up, she actually told her story, um, she wrote it down for me and asked, you know, it was very private, and it brought me to tears, but it was what she saw of me, [00:41:30] what had happened to her, and why she left the hospital, and I felt quite privileged that, you know, she wrote this out for me, she was an amazing, she was a well known Margaret Moon, yeah, she was a very So I was, you know, in some ways I feel quite privileged because maybe through what's happened to me, you know, has [00:42:00] helped others. You know, life as it is, it's already, I believe that it's already set out for you. You know, we don't have any choice in that. We have choice in what we can do with it. And, and, uh, you've either got to go with the flow, but for a long, that's easy for me to say now, because I'm in a good relationship and, you know, got my own home and car and that, maybe I'd feel [00:42:30] different if, if situations were different, yeah. Can you recall at first ECT treatment and how that all happened? I can recall, I can, I can't remember the first, you know, whether it was the first one, but I can remember that it's absolutely, that takes a lot to frighten me, but it's horrific. I've got [00:43:00] shocking veins, and, uh, I believe they put like formaldehyde or something into you to, it's like a muscle, It does something to you, and I can remember the electrodes going on, and I can remember that initial shot of pain and then just being unconscious, waking up with the most violent headaches and nausea, and every time you knew it was going to [00:43:30] happen like this, I was, I knew, every time I thought, you know, I won't wake up, I'm going to die. You know, and the pain of what, from my old hide of what it was going through my body. It was an indescribable pain and fear. It's just, you know, I actually haven't talked about it much, but I do remember, it's just indescribable. It was just shocking. Just unbelievable. And once, [00:44:00] someone said to me, I'll never forget this young boy, he was in there too, and he said they're going to give me shock treatment, what's it like? And I said to him, don't let them, it's horrible and it's taking away my memory and I feel so sick. And that boy went home and set himself on fire. Yeah. So there were things like that that happened, you know, all sort of things like that. Yeah. I have to deal [00:44:30] with, too, you know. If I had told, maybe told him that it'll be okay, things might have been different for him. Right from those first treatments, you could feel that your memory was gone? Yeah. And I kept saying to the doctor, I'm so frightened. I said, my memory's been drained. He said, it'll come back, girl. It'll be [00:45:00] alright, girl. And he used to say this all the time. And it was just only getting worse and worse. Yeah. How, how were the, um, the nurses or the other staff, um, I mean, were you having to be, like, held down or restrained, or how did that work? With shock treatment. Um, there'd be a nurse there, sometimes they'd be holding your hand. I, [00:45:30] uh, They put a, what do you call it, an airway in your mouth. Um, prior to me going into hospital, I was going out one night and I was ringing up my parents to come and get me at the telephone box and, um, this guy came along and he must have thought I was in the phone box too long. He went in the phone box and punched me in the mouth and knocked my teeth out, my two front teeth there. [00:46:00] And instead of mum and dad going to the police or anything, they kept it quiet because I was so young and I shouldn't have been out at, you know, 17 years of age. So, for me it was quite, that, I never got over the trauma of losing my two front teeth. And every time I had shock treatment, they'd take out these two front, the plate, and that in itself for me was quite a, you know, It was horrible. And then they put in this airway. Um, [00:46:30] But I can't remember. I think yes, I think they did restrain you because of course when you, you know, you have the shock treatment, your back arches up like you're having a seizure. And because of that, uh, two years down the track, I got meningitis and I think that I had a small. A hairline fracture in my spine caused through the shock treatment. And I went [00:47:00] tramping, drank the water, and it had the meningococcal bug in it. And caused through the fracture in my spine, caused through the ECT. So, you know, that was another side effect. That. What was the, I mean, what was the point of ECT? What did they hope to achieve? They never told me, and I don't think they ever knew, but I always, I thought [00:47:30] maybe if they completely erased my memory, that it might erase my memory of me being gay. I know how absurd that sounds, but I couldn't see any other reason. I couldn't, I saw other people around me that were having shock treatment, and there were some people that were really sick in there. And possibly, It did do them good, but I, I joined the medical library and I read books and books and books on ECT and there was a higher [00:48:00] percentage of success rate in placebo already. people being told they had ECT and there was more damage being done to people having ECT and round about the mid seventies they started moving where they put the electrodes because they realised, even though they'd never admitted that it was causing damage, where they They put the ECT on my head, and I think they changed it so it was on the frontal lobe, which to me is [00:48:30] still pretty horrendous. But I'd never admit that it actually caused memory loss, but sure enough, I mean, in the books and that, there's no doubt about it. If you have copious amounts of ECT, it'll cause memory loss, alright, yeah. Did they have any age limit in terms of, um, could they do it to like really young kids, or? Ah, that's another horrific story. There was a young Maori boy, and I believe he was [00:49:00] 12, 13. And he was an outpatient, and you were told not to have breakfast that morning. And he'd had breakfast, and he'd had shock treatment, and he died. And it was kept, we knew, someone had told us anyway, and we knew he died, but they, they hid it from us. So, and he, he was the youngest person I ever knew that had it, but he died from choking. He must have vomited or something, and he'd had his breakfast, [00:49:30] you see, and then came in and had, and it was just kept quiet. Came out later, of course, that he did. But we never really knew, it was, wasn't talked about at all. Was ECT talked about at all amongst the, you know, the people in the hospital? No. No, it wasn't. I was trying to, um, get the records together to get some sort [00:50:00] of case. And this was years and years ago. And I asked if I could. Go into the ECT room and I went in there and the minute I walked in there I just fainted, I just, you know, it was just such horrible memories. It was just, yuck. It was like a little torture room. There was these stainless steel beds and the ECT box was still there [00:50:30] and it was, uh, it was blin and awful. Did they ever use ECT as a punishment? Oh, I, absolutely, absolutely. I, I'm sure, you know, that I was given ECT when they weren't happy with me. One hundred percent. One hundred percent. I, uh, like, the time that I was let out, [00:51:00] and that my friend, She was homophobic, and she got this guy to go out with me, take me out for lunch. And as soon as I got in the car, he started putting his hands, and I said, Look, it's no use mate, I'm gay, you know. And mum had said to him, don't give Joan any alcohol because she's on quite a few drugs. Oh, no, no, I won't do that. Anyway, I can remember, instead of driving us out to a cafe, I said to a pub. [00:51:30] Applied me with alcohol. I can't remember having anything to eat. Took me back to his family, um, batch. Waikuku. Attempted to rape me. And he flied me with all the cider and that at his batch. And I was in a terrible mess and he pushed me out of the car, home. And mum and dad thought I'd taken an overdose. Rushed me to hospital. What happened, they gave me a stomach pump and then [00:52:00] ECT. Yeah, so. There was always, there was a sort of a It just, it just proved to me that ECT and salt and water enemas were the two main things that we used. If they weren't happy with you, they would, that's what they would do, either an enema or an ECT, yeah. Can you recall how many, um, shock treatments you, you had [00:52:30] in your time? Yeah, it was over 200, it was over 200. It just seemed to be my life, uh, you know, um, and, and so understandably you can understand why I didn't want to be on this planet anymore. Yeah, I've got the, I managed, they were very, uh, when I tried to get my records and that they were very, very [00:53:00] reluctant to get any records. And at the hospital itself they had records of ECT and when I went to ask them they said they'd had a flood and unfortunately my records were the ones that were lost. But we managed to get them. I can't remember how we got them but, so I've got a record of the days and the numbers of ECTs. Yeah.[00:53:30] A review of my medical notes indicate that I was prescribed ECT daily between 21st to 31st of December 1973 on the 2nd, the 4th, the 9th, the 11th, the 15th, the 18th, the 22nd, the 24th and the 26th of January 1974. Then the 1st, the 5th, the 8th, the 12th, the 15th, the 19th and 26th of February, [00:54:00] 29th and 30th and 31st of July, 1st, 7th and 9th of August 1974, on several occasions in or about June 1976, the 2nd, the 6th, To the 10th, 12th, 19th, and 20th of July 1976. 23rd, 25th, 26th, and 27th. And on other days in April [00:54:30] 1977. The 2nd, the 4th The 5th, the 6th, the 8th, the 17th, the 19th, the 20th, the 21st, the 24th, the 27th and 30th of May. The 2nd and 7th, the 9th, the 21st, the 24th, the 27th and 30th of June. 1977, the 18th, 19th, 20th and 25th of April 1979, 19th, 21st, [00:55:00] 23rd and 28th of July and 2nd of August 1982. And on several other occasions. A letter from the house physician dated 18th of June 1979 says that I had 100 doses of ECT since April 1977. When you got your records back and you saw the, [00:55:30] uh, the amount of ECT that you were receiving, how did that, how did that affect you? Oh, I just You know, it's like a dream really. It was unbelievable. I mean, things used to go on like, I was, sometimes after ECT I couldn't see maybe for half a day to a day. [00:56:00] And that's in my health records too, you know. Brain damage was actually quite horrific. Yeah. So, now I'm quite, um, I'm an anxious person and I believe, you know, anything like that, neurological, has absolutely been through the ECT, you know, damage through the ECT. I'm lucky, considering, you know, so much ECT, that I'm reasonably [00:56:30] okay, you know. Pretty normal person. Yeah. Reflecting back on all of that treatment, I mean, what are your thoughts about the medical professionals who gave that to you? I'm not a hateful person. I don't have any hate in me, but I guess the only way I look at it is The staff were told what to [00:57:00] do from the people above them. Um, I feel a little, a little bit of anger towards the doctor who always gave me the ECT and all the drugs, prescribed the drugs and kept asking about my sexuality. But he's passed away, I mean, you know. I don't hold, I put it this, I don't hold a grudge. I don't hold any anger 'cause it won't do me any good. [00:57:30] Yeah. Were you aware of any other, uh, people in the hospital that, that were there because of their sexuality? No. No, I weren't. If they were, they were too scared to say, I guess. Yeah. And do you think that that was the primary reason you were there, was because the sexuality was seen [00:58:00] as a mental disorder? 100%. There's no, absolutely no other reason. Yeah. The dates you've read out cross, I mean, a decade. Uh, you know that, so, so were you, were you in hospital for all of that time or you were kind of coming in and out? Um, c coming in and out. Have long periods in there and then come out and [00:58:30] go back in? Have to go back in. Yeah. So it wasn't all that time being in there all the time. I don't think they're allowed to hold people in, you know, long term. It was a public hospital at the time. It wasn't, they had a psychiatric ward which I was in, but it was a public hospital, yeah. I think you mentioned earlier about how there was a time where you felt [00:59:00] safer in the institution, that kind of institutionalization. And can you talk to me a bit about that and how, if you're coming and going out of hospital and actually when you feel that hospital is actually a safer place? Um, I guess because I'd got to the point that I didn't like myself, I had no confidence, I had absolutely no confidence in myself. Um, um, my social [00:59:30] skills, I couldn't, I didn't want to be around people. Um, and I guess, just guess that, I felt when I was in hospital, I mean this was at my lowest peak, I felt that there was nowhere else I should be in hospital, you know. I just had absolutely no, uh, faith in myself. I just, and I did want to die. I didn't, you know. So, of course I was trying to [01:00:00] kill myself, and when that would happen I'd get put back in hospital. And that was, that's the main thing that was happening, I was always trying to take my own life. Because I just, I'd had enough, I didn't, just didn't want to go on, I didn't feel, you know, life was worth living. And so, and then I'd get put back in hospital, and then you just go through the same old cycle. So how did you break that cycle, how did you start? Moving away from the hospital? [01:00:30] Um, I'd, I'd met my partner, a Singaporean woman, and, uh, You know, I'd really fallen in love, and I knew that if this relationship was to go on, I had to break away from the hospital. And so, that's when I made the decision, you know, um, This is a big step for me. I'm going to go out and try and find a job. And [01:01:00] that was the other thing. I went out to try and find a job in the social worker, where I used to apply at rest homes, because I thought that was to do with nursing. And one of the rest homes I applied for, The social worker had rung and said, don't employ Joan, uh, you know, she, she wouldn't last there and, you know, you couldn't trust her, blah, blah. Well this woman, she was a lovely woman, well she [01:01:30] said to me, I absolutely ignored that and employed her and I ended up working there seven years for them. But this social worker had been going telling people not to employ me, so, yeah. I was pretty angry when I heard that, yeah. And it ended up, actually, that woman who employed me, her daughter ended up being in [01:02:00] PMH. This was in the 90s or 2000. She was sexually abused by one of the staff, disbelieved, and, um, committed suicide, the daughter. And then he's just been found out again abusing another one of the patients, so, yeah. And what was it like, you were saying earlier about going cold turkey, off [01:02:30] all that medication? What was that like? Well, I've still got some side effects like really bad tinnitus, um, and I got that when I started to go off. So I just I'd constantly feel cold, freezing cold and shivering, didn't matter how warm the place was. Terrible nightmares, screaming out at night, shocking, shocking nightmares, and the nightmares actually went on [01:03:00] for a long, long time. Um, It's, it's all a bit of a blur really, because getting off sleeping pools, the copious amounts of sleeping pools is really, really difficult. You know? Uh, it's, it's, it's to tell the honest truth, it's a bit of a blur, that part. But not long after that, I went to Singapore for three months [01:03:30] and had a blooming Good time. Yeah. With so much medication and ECT, did you ever feel that you, you had lost yourself? Oh, absolutely. Totally. But then I guess there must have been a point where you start finding yourself again. I, I started to feel like a different person, you know. [01:04:00] Very shortly after knowing I'd broken away from the hospital, I, I realized that, you know, that I was me and that I was capable of doing things and I was capable of helping other people and I started to feel a different person. I really did. It was amazing. It was really amazing. It was like I had a second chance at life. But it was through my own doing. If I'd stayed at hospital, if I'd [01:04:30] listened to people, God knows where it, you know, what would happen to me by now. I don't know. I don't think I would have been here, probably. Can you talk about how that, that kind of recovery, Well, that process of recovery from going through all of those experiences and then kind of starting to find yourself again. Um, like, how long do you think that took and what were the things that kind of, um [01:05:00] Well, my parents always had this thing because I, you know, I had this thing of wanting to work and at one stage I had I think four, four or five jobs going at the same time. I, I worked at the rest home. I worked at, at the, uh, club. Um, it was kitchen hand. Um, I worked doing open homes for real estate. What was it? I can't remember what my fourth one was. But, but mum and dad were always frightened [01:05:30] that I might get sick again. And so I went on to the, you know, I was on the invalids benefit, of course, all this time. And I was willing to get off it, and Mum and Dad were always saying, you know, it's really hard to get on it, and just in case you get sick again, you know. So, because of that I was always on an invalids benefit, and these jobs are only part time jobs, instead of being able to get a full time job. [01:06:00] I couldn't do anything like that because Mum and Dad were frightened that I'd get sick again, you see, so. But, oh, it was amazing, it was amazing, earning money and, and, and travelling and, and I didn't have any, the only, you know, I didn't have any setbacks, I just, as I said, the memory loss is a pretty big thing to lose your memory and you've, because I've lost, I'd lost, although I went to a, um, gathering, It was last year when my good [01:06:30] friend Beverly died, the tran, tranny. And there was a woman there and her brother was gay. And we, her and I, were good friends. And she talked about all the things that we did as a, you know, teenager. And it was just so amazing to be able to be somewhere and feel good. And even though I can't remember those things, knowing that I'd done things with friends and that was a, it was [01:07:00] really, it was quite uplifting. I felt quite uplifted. So I really, I, I feel so blessed and so lucky now I really do. You know, and I feel lucky that I'm able to tell my story. And so when you finally got the medical professional saying, well, actually we misdiagnosed you. When was that? Well, that actually happened, I was claiming [01:07:30] for burns to my head at ACC and I had to get a medical report. And there was this doctor, Les Ding, he was a psychiatrist, he'd been a psychiatrist at PMH. And he was private practicing, and so I decided to, to go and see him and get a report. And he said to me, you, you're very lucky, you're one of the few that have [01:08:00] survived at that time. And he said it was unfortunate that you were misdiagnosed. And so, that was when I, yeah. I mean, I knew. Goodness gracious, if I had been a schizophrenic, I would have been on drugs, I would have been in an illusion, you know, all these, I had friends through the hospital and I even had a boarder here who was a schizophrenic and I, I know what it's like for [01:08:30] anyone to be schizophrenic, I mean, I feel terribly sorry for anyone who is. Well it does have schizophrenia, although they have drugs for that nowadays, but I mean I would have been on medication, I would have been imagining things, but I was going, I was just me, you know, I, there was no way I had schizophrenia, and there was no way I had a mental illness, the only mental illness I had was what they had brought on themselves in the hospital. It must have been very challenging when somebody says, it's [01:09:00] unfortunate that you were misdiagnosed. Absolutely, because I was, you know, I had meningitis three times, got it three times and I was Each time I was admitted to hospital, and I felt at that stage that I wasn't treated, um, like an ordinary, I felt, because on my notes it said that I was schizophrenic, that I was treated differently, so I pursued that. When I got out of hospital, I went to a lawyer, and I said, I just, [01:09:30] I've got to get this taken off my notes, you know, I have been misdiagnosed. I'm not a schizophrenic, I'm certainly not an alcoholic, and I'm not a drug addict. And all those things were in my notes, and I'm not having them on there. And eventually they took them off. It took a lot of, a lot of money and a lot of hard work to get them off my notes. It was terrible. I mean, that was one thing I hated. And in fact, I, when, just At the beginning of the Royal [01:10:00] Commission, there was something that one of the lawyers had seen. Schizophrenia, drug addict and alcoholic. And I really believe that he didn't want to take on my case, because I thought he, I still had the feeling that he thought, you know. There was still a bit of, he was a well known lawyer too. I won't mention any names, but yeah. So there's been a really big fight. to get that taken off my medical notes. So, it's been a [01:10:30] bit of a trial. Right from the beginning, it's been a long Since I got away from the hospital, it's been a long, long battle. Downhill too, I wouldn't say anything's been very positive. But I got recognised for the burns on my scalp, because you can see them, can't you? Memory loss, they acknowledged, and I got 10, 000. For that, it's time. [01:11:00] And, Hepatitis, I, they didn't acknowledge they would. And so, how I got that, I don't know. Um, yeah. And we'll just see what the outcome of the Royal Commission is now. But I still feel that I have to push to, to be believed, you know. It's quite hard, it's quite difficult, but so be it. Can we talk a little bit more [01:11:30] about the Abuse in Care Inquiry and, and what your role has been in that? Okay, um, when I heard the Royal Commission was going ahead, I definitely thought, you know, that I was hoping that they'd be interested in the case. Prior to that, I'd I'd gone, I can't, it's weird that I can't remember this, because it's only just prior [01:12:00] to the Royal Commission, but I'd gone, I can't remember who was running it, some lawyers and that, and it was to people that had been abused in state care, it was prior to the Royal Commission, and things weren't going that well, and all that, and I ended up getting 4, 000. I'd gone, I can't remember who was running it, some lawyers and that, and I ended up getting 4, 000. In the end, and, and my doctor, my GP actually, he's a wonderful man and supported me all the way, and he went on [01:12:30] TV for me, and because they interviewed me on, I think it was something like Seven Sharp or something like that, or the Wonderstafter there, and he said that he thought that he, he was absolutely appalled that They called it a wellness payment, and he said, this is the guy talking on the TV, and he said, I think they're very happy with what they got. Four thousand dollars, that's what I got, and I was told I wasn't allowed to say, otherwise they [01:13:00] could take the money back. And I thought, well, blow you, if you take the money back, so be it, it's such a small amount anyway. And I asked Dr. Glenn, what do you think? Would he say his piece on TV? And he said, yes, he's really shy, but he'll do it for me. So he spoke on TV and he said how much of an insult he thought it was. And so I had people like that, you know, my GP, what an amazing man to do that for me [01:13:30] and speak on TV. Just things like that in my life, I just feel so blessed. Yes, yes, yeah. I sort of, I've lost my track, dear. When you're feeding into this, um, this, this major inquiry, do you have to, uh, what kind of preparation do you need to do? Do you, do you have to, like, um, find all your medical records and all that? And, and what kind of assistance do you get for that, with that? Oh, oh yes, it was [01:14:00] a major thing. I had a dear friend and, and we got All my medical records, I've got a suitcase out there, and a big cardboard box with all my medical records. And I had to go through all of it, and then I had to write some sort of statement, and then I sent that through. And then they were very [01:14:30] keen to hear my case, so I was sent up to Auckland. My partner Marga and I went up to Auckland and that's when they heard my case. And I had a lawyer on the case and, and all that. And, um, then it's just a matter of waiting. We just have to wait now. And that's, it's quite hard because, [01:15:00] I don't know, sometimes I think At the beginning I thought I just wanted it to happen because I wanted people to know what I've been through and if it helps anybody else, but by the end of it now I think it's been so horrific that I really think we're owed some compensation. And I'm not afraid to say it now, I mean, goodness sake. [01:15:30] I haven't asked for a lot in my lifetime. Surely something can be done now. We'll just wait and see. What was it like going through all of your medical files and then creating that statement? Some of it was horrific. Like, I read things in my notes, like, This obese woman I mean, I'd never been above, I think [01:16:00] nine stone. I'd never been fat in my life. This best woman who likes strange music, and I like the Moody Blue, you know, there'd be such derogatory, it was shocking, and I was appalled. It's, it was hard. It was blimming hard reading through those notes because there was some horrible, horrible things in there. But I'm glad I did it, and I was glad that I was able to get my notes [01:16:30] and read it, because it was a real learning curve for me, you know. But it was, you know, I mean, it's probably one of the hardest things that anybody's had to do in their life, was go through records, you know, trying to read through records of things that you don't have a lot of memory about, and Yeah, it was very, very difficult and very taxing and trying and I just, [01:17:00] at that stage I wanted as many people as possible just to know how horrible it was and that's why I was prepared to tell my story on TV, to the magazines, to, to anybody, yeah. I just wanted people to know. Reading all those medical files, did it give you any more kind of insight into what had happened to you, and possibly why?[01:17:30] Not possibly why, but it gave me a bit of an insight into, you know, I mean, it just showed how far we have come, and we have come a long way as far as, Mental illness is concerned because, I mean, I was just You go to hospital, you lie in bed, you take your medication, you get up, you go for a walk around the hospital, you go back to bed, you know. It was [01:18:00] archaic, really. Do you think it could happen again nowadays? No. Absolutely not. No. For a start, they don't, in hospitals anymore, they don't have long rows of beds with people in them. Um, I don't think that those type of drugs, even legal now, that they used then. [01:18:30] Um. You know, we've come a long way with medications and that. And I don't, you know, even schizophrenics and people with mental illnesses, they've got medication and they know what doses to take. Why on the earth would they give a gay person a whole lot of drugs, you know, in the future? I don't think it would ever happen. No, I don't. Reflecting. [01:19:00] On all of your experiences, um, to do with, um, being in the hospital and the treatments, how has that, uh, changed you? How's that, how's that impacted your life? I think it's broadened my horizons and it's, it's, it's, I won't say it's made me into the person I am today, but Um, I've got some wonderful, like I've got a friend who's a doctor who's [01:19:30] And she's a Buddhist and, and, and her outlook on life is amazing and, and listening to her has helped me along my path and, um, given me the inspiration to be able to help other people and not just anything to do with mental illness but, you know, I like to be able to try and help other people. Um, it's just something. I like to do and, uh, [01:20:00] probably through what I've been through has made me more of a compassionate person. Yeah, I think so. In sharing your story and it's, uh, I mean, thank you so much for sharing your story, uh, both here but also in, in other. media, but also at the Royal commission. But in sharing your story, have you had other people reach out to you? Oh, [01:20:30] absolutely. Uh, after, um, the day after the Royal commission and I went onto the breakfast show, um, for example, I was at the reception desk and there were two women there and they said, we're meant to be catching our plane. Blah, blah, blah, but we so wanted to hear your story, and we just, oh, we thought your story was amazing. Can I give you a hug? That was so precious, [01:21:00] and then I've, yes, I've been places just after it and people say, oh, can I give you a hug? So I've had things like that, um, I've been approached by people, um, for my story, like, what's the, what's spin off? Um, I have to My story and so, yeah, I got quite a lot of recognition through being at [01:21:30] the Royal, you know, telling my story at the Royal Commission and on TV. A lot of positive. I haven't had, you know, this is the amazing thing, I haven't had any negative. Although my family's very religious and my niece was married to a preacher and They won't talk, no, my family won't even talk about what's happened to me. I can't even talk to my sister. She won't talk about it to me. All my [01:22:00] nieces, no one wants to know, and my family, so that's been a very difficult road to hoe to. Well thank you so much for, um, doing this interview today because I think, um, hopefully Uh, when this goes into the archives, then, then maybe the family can hear it at some point in the future and can, um, hear your experiences, um, and, and it's only through you sharing that, that we [01:22:30] know this. Yeah. Um, and we can make sure that it doesn't happen again. It's an absolute pleasure. And on that note, Gareth, I'd just like to say a little poem that my partner, Marg, wrote to me while I was going through the Royal Commission hearing. It's called Tribute to Joan. Joanie, your dogged fight for what is right has inspired all who know you. [01:23:00] You have climbed a huge mountain when most days it was all uphill. Now this is behind you. We can all rejoice with you and honor your brave and determined stand. You deserve this new beginning. You carry lasting scars from your long battle. I wish I could be a soothing balm to heal. If I could crush your pain to dust, I would blow it away in the wind. If you had [01:23:30] the opportunity to say something to your 18 year old self, what would that be? Stay strong. Believe in what you believe. And keep on loving yourself.
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