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Intergenerational talk - Charlotte Museum

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[00:00:00] This program is brought to you by pride [00:00:04] So the purpose that we kind of had for today was we wanted to gain greater respect for different shirts. [00:00:12] Often, we found a bit of ageism between different ideas in the community. And so we've asked the speakers to talk about what stereotypes they have of different age groups, what stereotypes I think other age groups have of the age group, and what their gender and sexual orientation means to them. So that's kind of the idea of what we're going into this for. And our goal is to kind of dishonor the differences in those different age groups. So kind of as a group, I guess we all kind of working towards that today. [00:00:59] You have Give me your know, [00:01:38] and we each chose a speaker or [00:01:41] each ask somebody to speak. So we're going to start with the speaker for as much as we can. [00:01:50] Okay, 50 plus love 69. [00:01:53] on the radio this morning, I don't know if you heard it. Lauren lycett, who used to call us off with our own, he was talking about coming out in the 80s. And he came out as a angry lesbian, feminist, angry lesbian feminist in the 80s. And something I read, just before there was a British comedian in the late 90s, who was talking about a mother and her mother saying, This is the mother's voice. Why do you have to go on that show? And say you're queer, or duck? Why couldn't you say you're nice lesbian. [00:02:32] And I thought, [00:02:34] something between the two between a nice a nice. [00:02:40] Amy is being feminist. And [00:02:43] I have my first lesbian relationship when I was 20. That's make 1960. And for about the first 15 years, I was closet, we were all closet. [00:02:55] I went out with men, I slept with men, [00:02:59] usually little wimpy men but [00:03:05] and it was really only when the women's movement came along when feminism came along. And kind of in New Zealand, that was a sort of mid 70s, when it started really infiltrating here, that became possible to come out. And coming out I thought, what what does it mean being a lesbian, I think a lot of assault there. We've been hidden the whole time, we've been secretive the whole time. We knew that being a lesbian male, being sexually attracted to women having women as the primary focus of your sexuality. And then we thought were being women identified, which is what the feminist movement suggests we were, what does it actually mean? And we thought about and talked a lot about lesbian identity didn't mean more than six, six, what we did, indeed, [00:03:56] you're sleeping with someone, it's not really. [00:04:01] And suddenly, the group of lesbians I kind of identified with spent, we spent a lot of time in workshops, in [00:04:12] counseling groups, counseling, [00:04:17] lesbian therapy, self help therapy groups, it was brilliant, actually, it was all free, as part of the whole feminist self self analysis. And we thought, what are we as an experience? Who are we as lesbians? Why are we lesbians, and this is only some of us, because a lot of my friends who've been the secret of lesbians before with me, identified as gay ladies. And gay ladies did not go to therapy groups and gay ladies, were not feminists. And gay Ladies, ladies still went to the bars and play pool and, and live their own lives in the suburbs, unhappy couples. So a lot of the women I knew didn't identify as feminist. And as well as the all the therapy groups, I mean, of course, the most important one, I think, for me was to be there today. But she's she's not with rejects. And some of you might know, as a counselor now who ran lesbian counseling group. So let's kind of point of that was that we were hoping we had a community. And if we were community, how are we going to operate in that community? So it's very much a sense of how how would you help the people who are having difficulty coming out? How would you help the people who are having difficulties in that community, and rejects in round two lesbian counseling sessions, which I thought were brilliant. And as well as that, of course, we read books, and I've got, I've got this big pile of books here because I spent 37 years of my working life teaching literature at the university. And books give me a great sense of security. So I usually always been a part of the Milan. But books like this one, Joe and Lu, Lu Lanza, lesbian sex, which came out 1984 I think it was followed by her lesbian passion, which came out 1987 sort of say, some of the younger ones might say that you really need to learn how to do it. But lesbian ethics towards new values, and I think that was kind of the center of it. What does it mean being a lesbian? Did we operate in different ways feminism said that [00:06:29] traditional conservative, [00:06:32] heterosexual relationships based on power dynamics based on sexual stereotypes, which would be questioned. And so you're saying what, do lesbians operate in a different way? [00:06:47] lesbian ethics. Actually, I took a list of my bookshelf and when I took them off, its 20 [00:06:54] years of dust was sitting on. [00:06:57] This is what we read then. lesbian couples, creating healthy relationships for the 90s. And I guess this is the thing that if we weren't being hit for sexual couples, what will we be? And I think we thought it was going to be a deliver that to women, women's passion, women understanding one another, and causes probably most of us know it didn't work out like this at all. So lesbian couples, creating healthy relationships and a lot of the lesbian counselors at the time were actually couple counselors, as well, not lesbian psychologies, explorations and challenges. The lesbian reader which started off, so coming out, and how to make love to a woman if you're a woman. What is she liked lesbian identities from the 50s to the 90s. If the significance of being lesbian, and the an epic lesbian culture and Anthology, because we've been culture, what was the being held that was very dusty actually. Said, [00:08:07] Joe and Lewin's lesbian six, and she was one of the [00:08:14] role models for us in the 80s. [00:08:18] And then in the mid 90s, she came out as sleeping with a man, or having a man as a partner, when we were really upset about this. We said this is this. She's a traitor? How could she be sleeping? What a man if she's the the lesbian role model. And the thing that she said as well was, it's not that I'm by she said, I'm not bisexual. I'm not I haven't gone straight. I'm a lesbian sleeps with a man. And I guess this is the mid 90s, it's the time when we were actually then being asked to query those kind of, not not quite absolute sweet set up, but for the attitudes that we've seen as being essentially lesbian. That is, you don't wear makeup, you don't wear high heels. These are things that stereotype females do, you can probably think of other things to him was highly suspect. Sleeping round was highly suspect. And certainly being being by was was, I think, pretty suspect in the in the rather. So please feel security, I guess that would save up in the 80s. It was, I think, if you came from the attitude, or came from a place, which had been [00:09:53] denied, where you've been denied, we've been hidden, we've been [00:10:01] terms, [00:10:04] marginalized, denied prohibited, became from that place, it seemed very important to set up some sense of security in it. This is, what a lesbian is, this is how we can all belong to the same same community. And, [00:10:19] of course, by the 90s, we began realizing that [00:10:23] although say in the therapy groups, you saw similarities, you also saw the differences and a lot of differences. And I think now we totally safe probably what Joe and Lou and said that Jesus has been, who sleeps, you sit with a man, then that was [00:10:40] that that was a horrible, which we've been talking about. [00:10:47] This, the other thing I want to talk briefly about was the fact that being a teacher at the university, and I taught classes in women's writing. And in the 80s, when I introduced the class, I would say to the students, and usually the students about that stage about 80, to 100 students, I'd say, we all read from different subject positions, I don't expect you to read like me, and say, I read like, I mean, probably a 55 year old, a Paki ha, a woman and fairly well educated. And somewhere in there I throw in and the lesbian. In the 80s, the students who were lesbian really like this, you know, they often they kept journals as their coursework, and like writing the journals, really great that she comes out, it's really great to hear the word lesbian being spoken out on, I think a lot of [00:11:53] cool baby dykes came out [00:11:56] in that class. So because of partly because of that class, I noticed the change that by the time we got to the 90s, and they'd be writing things in the journal like, what she feel it necessary to label herself. So it was kind of wonder whether I tried didn't stop, I kept saying this. And, and the students themselves often were calling themselves living any longer, despite the late 90s, they were calling themselves queer, queer as a as a more inclusive term, which could include gay men buys in any sexuality, which was it should take transgressive in conventional sense. And then went one step further, this is the early early this century, century when bi became very fashionable, and a lot of lot of students said they'll buy and this wasn't necessarily actually lesbian students, or straight students was both. I remember in fact, from my partner's daughter, who's as straight as I come, I think, who [00:13:09] called itself by [00:13:13] and, and another lesbian friend who pulled herself by, and neither of those were actually having any sort of thinking like sex with either daughter, either a woman on the bicycle is being played with a man, but by just meant you weren't going to be labeled. By meant you had the possibility of sleeping with someone of the opposite sex. So by became very, I think, very fashionable. In 19, sorry, 2005 I retired, so I'm not quite sure what happened. [00:13:51] But one thing I was certainly very aware of, was the younger students thinking of [00:13:57] the remember one of them saying to me in tutorial, I was very uncertain, she said, coming to this class, because I heard that you are a 70s feminist. [00:14:08] And so it's actually quite useful because we talked about [00:14:15] we talked about what was the 70s feminist and what was the 90s feminist? She didn't actually say I heard your 70s lesbian feminist. So it was very much that idea that 70s feminist and certainly as being feminists were kind of rigid in their beliefs. I guess this is still felt that they would expect to me that I'd be rigid in my ideas that I only have one way of seeing things and [00:14:42] thinking about now. [00:14:45] I came across this business news. [00:14:49] Stop yesterday, yesterday or Friday, the business Herald more places. You might some of you might have seen this. [00:15:00] heard about the event that caused this [00:15:05] and it was titled he doesn't speak lizard. One news anchor Simon dello apparently stepped over a line with his TV bosses after his media comment about his wife Allison, doesn't Mel mode? No, no. And to same sex partner, Carlene Edmonds. della was photographed and joined convivial company at a commercial promotional launch, and was asked by the Herald on Sunday gossip columnist about mo He replied, I don't speak Lizzie. Which is rather old thing for the main news anchor for public television to say TV and said spokeswoman and the resistance said, TV New Zealand has dealt with Simon about this it was handled earlier than the week. But she will not discuss TV ends its view about Delos transgression. Once closely protected by network bosses, who saw news anchors as representing the brand, TVNZ, it has taken an increasingly laissez faire approach to dello and to social life on the celebrity circuit. And in social pages since his breakup with mo I don't speak lizard will be offensive to some, but it's hardly shocking. Maybe it fits with TVNZ it's apparently wishing to promote its news to swing singles. [00:16:18] I have to end of that. quite confusing. [00:16:22] I think the suggestion is that the media [00:16:26] sees being a lesbian or speaking this I suppose, is somehow involved with being a swinging single. [00:16:35] And I think this is probably part of the recent sort of media [00:16:39] so promotion, I guess of lesbianism bisexuality, as long as you're attractive, beautiful. a celebrity [00:16:52] talented, and ECMO rich, or famous, or [00:16:58] Ellen DeGeneres is that it's that it's okay, it's cool. That's cool to be. [00:17:05] It's cool to be [00:17:08] Yeah, I mean, I think the Ellen DeGeneres I don't know how many of you caught her program. But it comes on just before the news so I always catch seem to catch the end of it when I go into the news and and she is set up as a classic Butch dyed [00:17:25] jeans. [00:17:27] Try nice and [00:17:29] easy cup jacket and will cheer do and all the attractive women in the audience. [00:17:39] So what did I feel like? [00:17:41] This was a [00:17:47] cool thing to be. [00:17:52] Did you see [00:17:56] this is a legit generic. [00:18:20] Cool, so I've chosen Jill's to be a speaker for the 30 to 50 age. And sometimes I'm concerned about the lack of knowledge of our struggle. And guru things like the recent Metro article where it interviewed a few younger woman and they really illuminated that for me and the sentiment, some anti sentiments around watching film, you know, and I wanted every young person in New Zealand to have, you know, read stone books, blues, and the schools that kind of heartbreaking. So moving on to assumptions about over 50 Well, as someone said over there, it pioneers, phenomenal. People was the directors to reflect discriminations and abuse, you know, electric shock treatment, [00:19:07] terrible family abandonment, couldn't access housing, health and unemployment. You know, I was there amazing woman, I do sometimes find them over did any thinking, of course, we get 30 to 50. [00:19:22] And I think labels are often so important. And I understand that because it makes sense of our world. And maybe it helps us make sense of others. I've come across quite a bit of phobia, particularly by phobia, and transphobia. And what I also find is that these women are still politically active, this stunning organizing for whose stories like today, our health and our rights. And so in terms of the labels I use, it's not a straightforward Christian for me, and I adore Sunday the names and labels, I adore daikon love it, but in the strictest [00:19:55] strip to see that may not describe my sexuality. And least and I have been together for six years we civil civil union. [00:20:06] civil union is over two years ago, and we're life committed partners. And I really like me saying this, but if she was to die, which is understandable, I may again here relationships with men. And so as my sexuality by lesbian, you know, I don't really care to be honest. And it's interesting, it's not very important to me, but once it kind of time, it really was I wanted a place to belong. And maybe my commitment to LA supersedes those questions for me. But it does come to why I love the label queer, because it does embrace my sexuality and my gender. identify as female and identify as a woman I have not install often don't fit into society expectations of those. My gender was started pretty early, my father was conservative and a farmer of several generations. And I don't stay there in the summer and my parents were divorced, and they would expect me to work in kitchen for the mean. And of course, this beautiful sunny days, I wanted to work out sighs we never did reconcilable budge on. And I love being a woman and I consider myself strong and determined and passionate. But these are not the domain alone of femininity, all masculine. And I'm also child free by choice, which I think is still a significant choice. motherhood is pretty pervasive, but still a master in our society. And increasingly, I find it's being almost elevated having children is next to godliness. So just to finish off what assumptions and beliefs do I believe other groups have a 30 to 50 year olds offer to a certain extent thing and a sushi and foodies may not differentiate significantly between 40s and 50s. Because let's face it, we are all old. I hope they are seeing more diversity. And I think you're a little bit mystified by our need to label ourselves. I'd like to think they see community. And even if they say of them have no desire to belong to us. And the over 50s I think I imagine they look at us and go how lucky you are, comparatively, how so many more rights and protections and legislation and a society we're queer really is here. But as you know, I believe we still have so far to go. So thanks. [00:22:20] And thanks for inviting me along nicely to allow me to contribute. [00:22:37] And I've both grew up in lesbian community, my mom's advice gay, they were together and had me a sperm donor. So I've always been surrounded by I wouldn't say radical feminists, lesbians, exactly that I'm people from that era. And so I think my prejudices or stereotypes against those people are very different from maybe other people my age, so I can only speak for myself. But so something I picked up just coming here today, just two things that I noticed was one that me and George essentially the only young young lyst internet and then under 30 bracket. And and I think that sort of eliminates one of the stereotypes I feel that older people might have towards us is that we're not interested. And I know I am, you know, I'm quite politically active. I was at the Youth Parliament stuff. And but I think you're right in saying that. There's no longer we don't feel the need for a united lesbian movement. We don't need to be politically active, like as a community. And I think it's actually really sad that we don't have that so much that tight knit community that from all the stories I've heard throughout my life, were around and 60s 70s 80s. And the other was a comment I do missing. And [00:24:04] I yeah, and [00:24:06] interesting comment that you made? I'm not sure enough. Sorry. And yeah. And you said, you said, Oh, you know, that that's the trend. Now, I hear and I said I always i was i was i thought, you know, oh, I don't want to? I don't know, because it's some it's a trend. And I think there might be another saying you older people might have is that they said you say us is quite superficial. And maybe fit, you know, the spirit fair. I mean, cuz I I'm probably more an old lesbian than a young lesbian myself, in terms of how I, you know, my belief system and how I act and things and I agree, I think a lot of people I see a lot of youth today as really superficial. And, and [00:25:00] I'm glad to know that, you know, many people here. [00:25:06] But, um, yeah, and I, I don't know why that is. I mean, I guess it's the, the impression I get is that people, youth in general, not just, you know, queer youth? Don't [00:25:21] they don't fail. [00:25:25] You I don't know about that. I'm [00:25:29] moving on [00:25:31] it yet. So I was trying to think through this last night during my Mustang and yeah, didn't yet. [00:25:39] But in terms of stereotypes, I think we tried to be representative of my age group of older people, and I see them as like, I would be more inclined to talk to an older person than the younger person about personal things about my personal life because I think that they have so much more understanding and I think a lot of that comes from the experiences that I've had and political arena and you know, the fighting that in the story, the stories of these, you know, actions that I had been about them one of my moms was telling me that she dressed up with a group of women from her radical lesbian group and when and saying, pretending to be prostitutes at the bar where American sailors were staying who were to the nuclear free and they were singing that song. I'm not sure what the actual song was, but the hair looks or something like it's raining. Shouldn't the ocean it's raining shouldn't see going along this this line. You know, it's a great song, the song just the walls of Texas. Yellow Yes. So they rewrote the song and sang the new version. And Toby's, these brawny American Silas noon ran out. So it's, and with the police sirens, you know, wailing and their way. And it's those stories I've been raised on and the comparison to today, when you see when I say, you know, a weekend activity for young people is going out and getting drunk, which is another big base with me. And it's just really, really depressing, depressing for me. And [00:27:28] you know? [00:27:31] What? all sit Yeah, I thought [00:27:36] when, when someone, if I'm in a situation where I'm coming up to someone, I usually use the term gay, not lesbian. And I think that comes from there being a lot of stereotypes around the word lesbian. And I although I think those stereotypes have changed a lot from you know, often those visual stereotypes. And I think that arose from the phone need to make us physical. So you know, short hit on my head shot yet here and but you know, things like that shot here and James not working out for me right now. [00:28:14] So, yeah, I mean, everyone knows what those stereotypes. [00:28:19] And [00:28:23] yeah, I lost my train of thought. [00:28:27] Six years. Um, and even though maybe today, I think with a lot of the media around sort of movies and things lesbians have a different, there are different stereotypes that really the last woman who have six everywhere with each other, I don't know, you know, but what is it? Whatever it is I okay, you know, you've seen some of the phones, but I don't feel that it's me at all. I don't think I don't fit into many of those stereotypes. And so yeah, these guys and more sort of inclusive term, but not not so much because I'm politically aware of, you know, the other people need to be included, but just because I don't feel that it's fair for people to associate me with those stereotypes. And try you know, stereotype me because of my sexuality [00:29:17] and gender and [00:29:20] I think there's a there's a lot more stigma around gender than just sexuality. And that's sort of the next battle with as you know, the LGBT community has to face and as well as bisexuality that's another big issue. Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm comfortable in my agenda, but I find I've been selling a lot of university scholarship applications recently and I something twigs in my, you know, in me when I see boxes, female male, and that really annoys me because I've got, you know, lots of trans trans friends and [00:29:55] yeah, just so there's so so many problems and society that we need to look at

This page features computer generated text of the source audio. It is not a transcript, it has not been checked by humans and will contain many errors. However it is useful for searching on keywords and themes.