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Elizabeth Kerekere - homosexual law reform

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[00:00:00] This program is brought to you by pride nz.com [00:00:05] Elizabeth kitty kitty, I'm so pleased that we've been our two he managed to get you in Wellington in for an interview. It's been a while now and I knew you're so incredibly busy that it's it's sometimes had [00:00:20] be honest with you for Elizabeth, would you like to just introduce yourself [00:00:25] killed and take, really pleased to be here. So I'm Elizabeth kitty kitty, I originally come from Gisborne, my tribes, the Atlanta hockey, and that's the only only final, don't forgotten item on TV. And I moved back home a few years ago after 20 years of Wellington. And I felt too into for Scott to introduce myself always sound paga top way. I'm an artist and an activist. [00:00:55] And I remember you from days when we were [00:00:59] playing soccer, please. Or I'm not sure if you are playing so much as managing the team in and doing the states and keeping us in order. [00:01:08] Yes. And doing fundraising solo for career proper catchers gear. [00:01:13] It was with this interview is being done for the homosexual Law Reform series proprietor nz.com. Around the time of the early 80s, or 8586, we're about to you. [00:01:27] I saw us back Indonesian where my mother is from. And I was at Teachers College at the time, I was involved in a lot of different political groups. And the early 80s, I was part of the black woman's movement, we had a young black woman's group, many of modern Pacific, young people, I was also involved in another module in this group in the university, mighty mighty club, I was part of the before I started going to university. I was part of a coalition, the end of political groups that would work really closely together. So Marty pharkya, Pacific island with all sorts of different political viewpoints. And the real value for me was that model. That said, we always looked at how we had similar interests and how we could work together rather than concentrating on what was different and, and made it difficult to work. And so what we would do is, is each of us would identify what were the key needs in our particular areas and our particular interests, and then the other groups will come together to support. So my role in the homosexual law reform, I'd already been out for several years I came out as a teenager [00:02:46] was [00:02:48] we followed the lesbian and gay groups and individuals who put together the actions and donate and so we're back in the day, we were leafleting, we were standing on street corners talking to people, I was raising those kind of issues in the modern communities that I was in. And then when it came to the marches, then all of us will club together and bring in any groups to help support those actions. And so, absolutely, we saw that what was happening around law reform and basic human rights was something that affected all of us, no matter how we identified. And so I think, still to this day, that is how I look at when I'm thinking around political action is always looking to how we connect, how we can work together, how we can support the issues that affect us in different ways. And also recognize that people need their own space, people need to be able to meet as Marty only is women only as lesbian or queer was trains, to have the space as a just the support just to be able to free to be to be yourself to be free to be yourself. But also, to get basically, he'd specially need to do your own thinking I'm planning that the input to be able to come out to your allies, and say, right, this is the focus for this. And this is what how we can move forward. And I think I still use that model today. [00:04:14] Sounds fantastic. Sounds very, that's very constructive. [00:04:18] Yes, got a lot of work done. I'm from a very young age of this thought, my life activism isn't a thing I do in my spare time, it is my life. And everything I do folds. And today is I like to say what do we get up for in the morning, if not to change the world? [00:04:35] I love it. Love it. Elizabeth, when you said that you were talking with Marty communities around that time, Can you recall, the sort of response you were getting from people? [00:04:50] It was interesting. Now, when especially looking back from my point of view of working nationally and internationally, around Taka, Taka shoes, looking back most kind of quite innocent content sessions that we had, back then because I was fortunate to come into a family who were really, really supportive, and to be born into into come out within. And, and so I went around with that expectation that it's not acceptable to not accept your children. And so we not sit down and talk with different people say it out, but I it the groups that I was inside, and then we would look at it as a political issue. We would, and I guess that's the other thing, too, is pitching it, you pitch things differently to different audiences. So we look at as a political human rights issue. And that case was very clear. But when we talked to people at the park, or it and other social networks, and particularly older Marty, then we'd always look at it from a cultural point of view, the number one fan I first, how can anybody reject their child, because because of the sexual orientation, or gender identity, it's just not acceptable. And so when we have these up, so that was the first thing I came with the expectation of the point. So when we had the conversations, [00:06:12] it was interesting when people weren't sure, or the church didn't make [00:06:18] heads, really specific views against that. And of course, we came into a time where churches were heavily organizing against it. And the beauty, I guess, I've been in a smaller center was they think that people may be a bit more cohesive, and football connected, you couldn't just separate yourself out completely, you knew people who were in those communities, you knew their families, and, and so you couldn't entirely just say the other, the other, the other ones, we're going to objectify over the hit, have a bit more analysis. So the kind of issues that we still hear from far know that it's not natural, that they're going to get hurt, they're going to die from it. That people won't accept them before, it's better if they don't say anything. And so we will just have conversations, because it's not our place, certainly not to tell our elders what to do in any environment. [00:07:16] And just [00:07:19] that I always had the feeling, and, and all the people that I was around that then number one, this is your child. And your job is to look after them. And so whether they were being really more polite, because they were talking to me, and they know all my family is well, better, but I always found it, being able to have a conversation where they could express the grief, perhaps the the lack of understanding, or just the real concerns without being total for their point of view. Again, those the things I learned from the groups that I was working around, that we have a conversation, that we don't tell people what to do, we, we know people won't change, we can change people, they will change when they're ready to we can educate we can talk, or what is the best thing? What does that person need? What environment can we set up to make that happen, and certainly around homosexual or reform, there were a lot of medical very, very divided around this. And so once I think a year sees I know it's occurred, or it's someone in f5 bat, my church sees this. And so there was, there was still heated discussions, they will matter who are actively involved in churches really, really against this. But in the circles and the political rounds that were around, and kind of the edges of that we hit, we had a lot of support. So it was never clear cut, can never say things like Marty don't support us, or Madea all that is we can't do an any on any topic. [00:08:53] We can I think we can make categorical statements about what our culture represents. And so always go for that. Like if it's wanna make that real. [00:09:02] So So in a way, maybe lower form, the activities around the presented an opportunity to raise these issues in conversations that [00:09:12] absolutely did. And that's the great thing about national elections. It really a component really polarizes people. And for me, I'm really relaxed around polarities, because I think if someone has a strong opinion on something, I really, really respect that because I know they care about things they the opinion in in the Decisions, decisions are important to them. So when you can have a really solid conversation around that, then if a person changes their mind or way, then you know that you have this solid support, then once they understand what's going on, some people just revolting, not going to happen. But an integral is that group in between the same, I don't want to hurt anybody, I don't want to be seen to be really bad, bad. So long as no one asked me out front, I'm just going to say nothing. So when you ask them and have that conversation, depending on how they want to be seen in the world, and whose approval orders they might seek, then there's a real opportunity for them to actually start changing their mind. And so definitely, absolutely. It's hard to raise these issues out of nowhere. And but when you've got something to kind of hang off, are we talking to people about this? You know, what do you think? What do you think we should do? [00:10:31] So the black woman's group that you're involved in, can you tell me a little bit more about that. [00:10:37] So was called young Pacifica. So we were teenagers, when we set that up, and we called ourselves a black woman's group. And as part of the black woman's movement, which was really big in the early 1980s. And the use of the word black was a very conscious political term to align with the struggles and what was happening over in the United States. And so it's part of that we were hosting a lot of people from from the States, black activists, lesbian feminists coming over, I got to meet people like Audrey Lord, to hang out with, which is highlight. And but I don't think I've understood at the time, how significant that was. But we got an opportunity to talk with people who are doing that work, and also to learn how to be a good ally. Rather than what do we think is the best thing to do for people who've got a completely different struggle, it's actually they tell us what they need from us. And that's what we do. And that's a real [00:11:39] convenient, Li. So letting go of ego. And that [00:11:47] actually accepting what someone else has expressed this, what's important to them and what their needs and expectations are, and going with that rather than what I think would be really good for them what I think they should do, and just kind of leading metal go. Because it's like these, you can't, cannot stand up and say, This is what we need. This is what we want, if you're not prepared to allow everyone else to stand up and do it on their own behalf. And so, that group, we did a lot of different actions, we support a lot of political movements as well, because we because we saw how things were connected. So we were supporting Kenworthy against nuclear warships and our harbors, because there was that was a really huge at the time. So in a before when Yes, David Lonnie made the really brave and incredible stance to be nuclear free. And, and that's great when they stances Amai. But we always have to be vigilant. They would that we all contribute to making sure that we can maintain that state of being so when there was a threat of something coming and we're out there protesting about this. And as I say, back in the day, we were doing we still had access to the stickiness. And you know, for really flesh someone with a be able to use a photocopier. We're hand writing and hand drawing leaflets, [00:13:10] I think you might have to say what is it narrows [00:13:12] are seriously are used to have them in schools. And you would [00:13:17] do [00:13:19] first is the multiple carbon copies, you will do that. And but you do one copy, and you put it through the state and you had to [00:13:27] roll a handle around Honestly, I'm sure I'm trying to show you this [00:13:32] thing can see the show rates that are going on here. They're clearly going to display what I'm talking about. But it yeah, it would print off a whole lot of copies. And [00:13:45] like, be like multiple carbon copies. [00:13:48] You had to turn a crank was Yeah, [00:13:49] yeah, like a crank a big wheel. And it smelled really, really nice. When we hit school and we get them. All the kids. I don't even know what the chemicals were. But the it's also nice and it will come up and really, really cool colors. Because all the photocopier, all the carbon paper stuff was like blues and green. So always have these cool colors. Yeah, that's like alphabetical is so boring. [00:14:15] Right? Yes. So we would, you know, we'd write strongly worded leaders to people and we stood on the streets, and we Lake flooded and had conversations that people can pass very public way of protesting in theory. And so we'd spend hours and just having conversations right hand things out, talk to people and yet developed try and develop relationships with other organizations. So we can always so we could work together, [00:14:43] have those relationships stood the test of time, [00:14:47] are certainly the women who were involved. And our black women's group, we, particularly the Office of Family. So Murray, hip and Tilly that was really, really close to I practically lived at the house, the mother was like a second mother to me, so shout out and the memory of Attila officer. And we, we kind of grew up together politically and certainly Pepin Marie were older than me. So they were already politically active. And I've been active and mighty things. But this will quite talking was studying, don't our today's mighty sovereignty. We were teenagers. We were talking about how does racism work? And in this environment, what does it mean for migrant people who are resilient in this country in terms of the treaty, so we're having hard out discussions. And we, it wasn't always easy, and it was certainly not always comfortable. There were times when we had to get told to this, like, settle down a little bit. But we were part of a radical community, all doing different amazing things. So we got to learn about things for me. There are more than normally have have done, I was doing cup of soccer, and I was doing other things and being a new that's at school. But and you know, if you say what are you going to do with your time, you wouldn't do all these millions of things. But you you still because of the way we would you knew what was happening with everybody else? And little ways. Where does it connect without what we think? How can we support that is part of what we already do. It's not extra work when you work together? Well, it's not extra work to support anybody else's struggle that connects with yours. [00:16:35] You move to Wellington around the light it? Yes Did you go via looks wise? [00:16:42] Well, I did my last year at Teachers College and promised and also be close to Brisbane soccer gone spend more time with my great grandmother and family up there. That is an 89 I moved to Wellington, I was part of the developer project. The opportunity was in the museum development office, the what they call it the project office, so I helped design tipa which is pretty fleshed out 25 years old. Yeah. So you know. So in people, we talk about working with young people go they're going to be our future leaders, I can tell you this right now. And they have been leaders of their own life since they were born. And and we just need to support that the young people get on and do what they're doing adequate. They just need to let us know what we need to do. We need to use our brain back come back to this so yeah, they can make comes because we were doing incredible things when we're very young start like coming back to school, we started organizing national way when we were 18. And we were meeting people from all over the country we're talking about different things as part of teachers college when I started the then I formed a national network of Marty representatives on each of the teachers college boards or committees and each of the colleges and so we're we're for we was what we were doing with that organizing and bringing people together. So we now move to Wellington. So it was wonderful to work on the project. It was a groundbreaking the first bicultural Museum in the world. And I was an institutional planner Marty. And so I helped design I work with engineers, architects and all that design I part of my work was designing the spaces for the Medina and the motorhome and I designed the bicultural concept for the planting and help to up the planting plan for the landscaping. So in many, many years later, my partner and I got married. Yeah. [00:18:47] Well, I know it's, you had different I remember looking around the room and at the hundreds of people. And I could see different groups, some people that you had. And I remember when you taking people to have a photo with the both you and a loafer. The Amazons, that was kind of why I was there. I think that we got up and hit a photo with you. But there are plenty of other groups here. And I felt that was really, it was it was so nice to see someone drawing on in so many parts of the world. Yeah. [00:19:24] And I tell you what the most political thing I've done in my life, it was the invitation list for the evening. [00:19:30] Oh, my God. [00:19:33] can even bring me a partner. [00:19:35] Yeah. I haven't even met them. [00:19:39] We don't want to go there again. Yeah. No, I'm never doing that. Again, I'm sticking with the waterfall. [00:19:45] But how amazing to have been involved in designing a space that you could then use it for such a special event? Yes. [00:19:53] No, it was magic. It really was an end. Because it was such a creative. It was also very political Pisces government was changing at the time. And so we're always on contract. We never knew if the project would keep on going and what was going to happen. So it was really dynamic. But I learned so much. And I got trained in many different aspects of museum life so that I could understand what the needs were and work with different parts of in the different parts of how the museum operates. But also I'm an artist I was my father was an artist and cobre bought up doing art. And so being involved in galleries and museums for a long time. And so it was crazy exciting for me, to be able to be part of such a revolutionary [00:20:41] organization. And positive up is amazing. And you've got at empowerment. [00:20:48] Thank you. Yes, I have a piece I did. [00:20:54] For my greater exhibition. We toy Hokkaido when I move time to go spin at my at school, and yesterday was my weeks. And I did an exhibition the following year and Wellington and it got seen, actually by Tim Bennett, and his partner, Amon, and they recommended it be bought, purchased by Parliament. And that all happened. The rainbow caucus got that together. And so it was pitches to commemorate the passing of the marriage amendment act. So that's pretty exciting. Tonight, it's something thats hanging in Parliament. Very cool. So very cool. [00:21:32] And and in fact, I think is it for the cover of, of you your booklet tech attack we part of the foreigner? Yes. just been released. And talk a little bit about that. [00:21:46] Okay, so this resource. After I finished my degree, I was in the process of finishing it. And I was asked to, I had been asked to do and PhD by Allison. And, and I had had no intention of doing anything like this. As I wanted to be a full time artist. That was the goal. So I could do my activists work around that and [00:22:14] foolishly and I wouldn't recommend anyone does this. But in my last year of school, I started my PhD. [00:22:20] How long ago was it? [00:22:21] Let's see, it's coming up. Probably four years ago. Yeah. So 2007 2012. Yeah, as I was finishing the degree, I started the PhD. And it took me a while to reduce down obviously, I wanted to do something around that, that we [00:22:41] that I [00:22:44] couldn't, it took me a long time to focus, I want to do 100 different things. And in I reduced it what I felt down to nothing. But it still excellent cover a whole lot of different things. And so it's called the PhD is called part of the final the emergence of like, a taboo identity, you know, as I continue to do active with activists work while doing the PhD, or is this just so many needs that they have people constantly asking me about, like, what's up with these things written, of course, is next to nothing written. And, and I was realizing that the needle is quite immediate. And it wasn't in even when I finished the PhD, and it'll eventually get okayed and then maybe published, that's a way down the track. And not everyone's going to read that. And even though it's I don't use heavily academic language, even in that writing, it's still not really accessible at all. And so I thought, this would be an ideal way to start giving out some of that information meet that constant need. And kind of distill some the guts of what I was trying to put across the net, and the thesis and decide it's more manageable. So this particular one was a collaboration with the Mental Health Foundation. And we did it I kind of borrowed my services as chair of to fund to fund a city fund, if I know I sit up around 2002. So I found it to be a place for me to come into provide a safe space for those of us who are from outside this tribal area that live and work in Wellington. And so a place that we can come and bring all the parts of ourselves together to bring our cultural MRT sides to live our culture be able to use that to Canada, but also to provide a space for people who might be strong in the sexual and gender identities, but not really sure about the MRT side. And so this was a place where they could start to reconnect that they could start to learn things and be around other Marty and a place It was really honoring their all of their identities. And so and then as third aspect was that we would develop relationships around the community, because we hate to say, but this discrimination and racism that exists and abroad around black communities, and we wanted to address that, but we wanted to do it in a way that wasn't about rah, rah, rah, you're racist, we should out. We wanted to do it like, actually, you know, these appropriate ways to behave these they appropriate use of T Canada. And I believe that we have over the years developed that, to the extent that not much happens around Wellington without to fund a fund or been involved being included. And it took years to set up to develop those relationships. And the key with it, and again, mirroring how I came through, and my politics is defensive. And I was always set up that it was opened all its activities and our cup of hackers, that ongoing group. And any other event of things we were involved with is for Tiger top with a foreigner in France. So anybody who feels comfortable in that space as welcome, but all the key decisions, major policy or strategy things and made by the top of the board. And at the moment that comprises of myself, Kevin, whoa, no ENPD there while so he'd said to me, he tried to resign out and I five, six years ago, we kind of ignore them. But yes, so. So bringing all that forward to the resource then is whenever I do anything that's related to our communities, I do so is the phenomena. And so this is the first of a collaboration. And this is specifically it was funded through waka Hoda around suicide prevention. Because we know all the statistics tell us that our rainbow young people, and our rainbow people generally featured way too highly and all the negative states around self harm depressions sort of suicidality. And so I wanted something that spoke to Fano about weird, like a taboo he comes from, and to understand that from a cultural point of view, that says this is not a foreign thing, this is something that used to be the same six by six a trick to behavior, gender fluidity was actually part of our culture was accepted behavior back in the day prior to colonization, and that, that [00:27:21] interference, and corruption of parts of our culture [00:27:26] came about through colonization. And when we have been taught to believe in lots of our father that this is a foreign package thing, and it's just not true. And so part of this is just saying, actually, we need to relearn some of the stuff, this is the truth around it. Then also, just to remind people, those basic again, multi culture about foreigner looking after a young people who might not understand and agree with everything they do, they stole your daughter, the brother that your sister, your child, you cousin, your uncle, your auntie, and, and those basic things around wider and the essence of who we are, we can't, we shouldn't be challenging those things, because I make some big claims. And here I say that our way to a comes from our ancestors, I don't think many people would dispute that. But I say our sexuality and agenda comes as part of our wider therefore that comes from our ancestors, and we disrespect our ancestors. When we challenged someone's own knowledge of who they are. There's money we're all about identity, we are about our tribes, we are about Alma I, we are about alpha and I do know Mike with us, and actually that includes our sexuality and gender. And so I try to reposition that the discussion around it. And because I say also when you claim like a top way you are know that your gender or sexuality diverse and so you're actually reclaiming your Marty self. So I absolutely position title therapy is a multi identity. Because I had issues with some other the ways conversation happen around things that intersection ality because they say okay, there's Marty here, the knees, lesbian, gay or queer. And I'll go, I'm actually going to talk meds, I would say in a Venn diagram, we are actually squarely completely inside Marty. Because as I always say, we have always been here. And that we should actually look at different kinds of imagery around it like weaving. Like how we can eat again, always how we can eat, and how we can to strengthen our family. To strengthen our people, we need to embrace all the members of it. We don't need to agree with everything, we don't need to understand it again, and this resource, I have my top to talk about boy tips, any one of those four finalists, you don't have to get it yourself to beat the and get it it will come over time. [00:30:13] So how do people actually get hold of this resource? [00:30:17] The quickest way is the resources available on PDF. Or you can ask for a hard copy from the Mental Health Foundation on the resource dub dub dub mental health.org.nz. And that's coming up soon on the to fund a fund a website that'll be available, the diesel surf film resource that comes with it. [00:30:43] So you'd be encouraging [00:30:44] found out to be reading this? Absolutely. I think it's a good introductory thing for anybody to read. It's the first of its kind. The only resources we've had prior to this have been specifically around sexual health and produced by AIDS Foundation for the is the first that looks at the avatar boy, and all of that, say speaks in the breadth of all of our identities. So I think if if you wanting What does that? What does it mean? How do I explain it the in this is the resource for you. When you're looking specifically around Finally, in some with struggles are happening, and it might, it's not necessarily that hopefully you've got an update that your child is suicidal because of her. But we just want to point out that lack of acceptance by far no is is so hurtful. And so fundamentally damaging to the wider of any person that to MRT. It's It's It's so fundamental that that's something we need to avoid when you did the discussion before things get that bad. And so absolutely, it was designed with final in mind, they say My belief is when you can look at it as a model is Marty identity. The I think that clears out some of the issues that are going on. And then we're doing some follow up resources, doing several one with rainbow youth, national organization based in Oakland, we were going to interview some young target that way, but also the parents and the grandparents so that elders and foreigner can speak to each other parents can speak to each other in young people to each other to say how do we create foreigner who are supportive of our youth. And, and again, it's it's a mighty base in its cocoa base. It's truly based. But I believe the message in it applies to all of us. [00:32:37] From the people that you've quite within the resource, you have several, [00:32:44] several folks that you've talked to as part of developing at night they get they get to have a say. [00:32:51] Can you talk to some of the people that have helped you that supported you and putting this together? [00:32:57] Okay, so [00:33:00] we interviewed five different talk about play. We wanted to have a range of ages and identities. And so we're our youngest. Well, now, they're in their early 30s. But late late 20s, when we first talked to them, and I actually went back to the ones that I'd interviewed for my PhD and and our oldest Jennifer's just turned 65. So we've got a huge range, and also really wide range of tribal identities. I think the thing that comes through with the way that people talk and you see it beautifully in the, in the videos, is we have an expectation of acts of acceptance, that we and some of the quotes in here, magic. And because we're specifically talking about suicide prevention, for example, one of our people is him on a bike, I love this. She says I don't have an attitude of a acceptance or tolerance. I have an attitude of celebration and gratitude for the things out there that Apple youth bring us. It's incredible. It's extraordinary. It's otherworldly, it's beyond taboo, artistic, intellectual, physical, psychological, spiritual, sexual, I don't believe we have any conception of what's been lost when a young people are lost. And it again, just magic. And then the other thing, and I say that people have attitude, Jennifer, who [00:34:35] lives and has lived her whole life as a woman. [00:34:39] One of the things she doesn't my bits might not be right, but I know who I am. But one of the things she goes, some people would say to me, you can't come on them. But I like this, I'd say, Are you telling me what I can do in my ear, we get real. And so the thing that says Actually, we do belong here, you should not be came with us. Discrimination homophobia by phobia transphobia. There is actually really, really antibody and, and therefore very much folded on with racism. And actually, we're not having a sort of our [00:35:20] this is interesting, because earlier on when you're talking about your approaches, and he doing he knows to fan a fan. I think it sounds like it's you know, at the bottom line. In fact, there's time for being inclusive and nice of people. And then there are other times when you just have to say it. [00:35:39] Yeah, and I think there's certain ways to say it will always say sorted out, [00:35:44] will help you sort it out, will give you support, will we commit to having relationships and maintaining that contact? Bottom Line always, always is Oh, yeah, you're sorting it out? [00:36:00] So you're working a lot with young people. [00:36:03] At the moment? Yes, there was I have been self employed for a long time, nearly 15 years doing treaty work chief treaty relations, strategic development, and project management, because I just found it easy to do my activism work without a full time job. And but I needed to create some bits of income. So I find that normally all the income I make goes on travel. And I was actually offered a role without the equate youth development, which I did in 2008 2009. And we had already been involved with Kahau queer youth national, which was held in 2007. And to fund a fund, I've been invited to come along and do some training, I actually developed my first tickets app, we use group guidelines for people to say okay, how do you make your groups more inclusive? What are the things to think about in terms of treaty? So by the time I had the role then I was organ I ended up organizing Haha, oh nine. And so through that we traveled nationally got to know the youth groups. And I guess from that point, then I maintain good relationships with lots of young people different groups and I guess I'm new to the particularly leaders of those groups. And all in this so few of us in an even though we we can organize nationally and we can do things is not specific focus groups and every center and we wanted to fund a fund it to be a place that people can get advice not have there are no stupid questions and to feel safe, that we can talk about these treaty things talk about Cobra Marty and how it applies in their group and their organization and develop and maintain their relationship. So for them as individuals, as they're working out the leadership and and what that is they want to be and doing the world, but also their organizations, how do we model actual treaty relationships? What does it mean when you come to work and every day? And so I've been really excited to do that, to be around for that. [00:38:15] And again, if we're not, [00:38:18] I think my two favorite sides. Yeah. Not to change the world. Why do we get up? And if we're not going to look after our young people? What are we here for? [00:38:30] You talking earlier about? young people as leaders. [00:38:37] In sports, that's something that I agree with, with to when when i when i sees the amazing young people around who some other people to kind of call them emerging leaders or you know, they'll be a great leader one day, [00:38:53] they will take over when we leave, leave off that kind of craziness. Because I actually know the leaders beside us. [00:39:02] I think it that honors when we hit the Wellington on as the first ones that you helped organize them lead the event in February of this of 2015. And yes, someone had made a point earlier on that you'll take over from us and it's actually we're all working together. They're doing the thing is we were doing when we're young, we're doing our thing and say, actually, I think we will need to keep catching up with us. We we support what they do they know what we're doing. So they support to the extent that their kids to do that. I guess we just always need to remember our privilege that we have is we grow older. Most of us do know, do remember, it was like getting crap at school, not being safe holding your partner's hand as you walk down the street. We had those lives. But now we own cars, we can drive to where we need to go. Most of us have had jobs, some of us own houses, we are YE been around we were we've gone, many of us will have had depression, many of us have thought about suicide, we've grown through that we have survived and we have continued to build What's this with increasingly much more massive and organized rainbow communities and networks, we've got to where we are it is absolutely incumbent upon us to be looking out for and using every inch of privilege that we have to be to be there for an even if it's just to be on the other end of a phone that say can I get this person just talk to you. And I think they'll really relate. It's not about always going and joining a group and doing whatever we excellently must use every inch of privilege to support what they're doing, and help look after them. One of the things I say in here, and I believe it and I'll try to live it is that we want to be part of a movement that honors our ancestors respects our elders. We work closely with our peers, and we look after our young people. And we seem to do that we vocalize it at every opportunity because you know what we went through great when we were younger. But the issues that are facing our young people right now, then like nothing that we we have failed to face that global phenomenon of young people coming out when they young, we did not that was not what what any of us grew up. And that is happening now. And we must be the we must be around for that. [00:41:34] So this booklet is almost, it's almost like you've come in a circle from those days in the 80s when you're having the conversation so far now and so on that because the homosexual or formats out there and kind of gave that opportunity to have that platform, have those conversations, and now you've got this resource in the ones that you're building from here, that final can get hold of Philly really is [00:42:00] yes. And it's very much about we start the conversation, we know that it needs to happen. We know what's happening out there. Finally, kids getting kicked out of their homes, and not feeling safe in the churches on in the schools. at a site. It's not acceptable. And we can't wait around for some magic thing to happen or magic focus. It was really interesting when the office civil unions much more dramatic, that caused a lot of conversations, especially with the shall not be named match that so they were it was a different environment by that they kind of broke the ice significantly on the whole idea about the same partner legalized contracts to to the marriage equal known as marriage equality. And people as interesting got interviewed a couple of times about how much has changed for me in the last two years because of marriage equality. And I say, Well, he's not much. And actually that's not the big thing. That's considering it, from my point of view tinkering. And, and adjusting from civil unions to marriage, awesome. For those that it's really important, absolutely fantastic. For, for mindset, the mindset got absolutely, you know, blown with civil unions. And so that has been a process Since then, the marriage equality did not happen in and of itself, of which started with it, which of course, if I knew we were not going to win, and which is why, you know, all of these things, all the politics that were around all of that, and absolute shout out to all the people who've done it because they hit to hit them. [00:43:42] But [00:43:44] there is not really the big struggle happens without a bad boy. And, and so it's been an interesting thing. And this resource, I guess in the same Actually, this is some of the core things is that when alpha know, have difficulty accepting us because of our gender or sexual ality we start losing connection to our culture, to our in the into Africa and who we are. And this is so fundamental, you start losing that connection, you start losing that sense of who you are, and then your sexuality and gender becomes the most important thing. And you need to protect that. And it just creates more and more disconnection from culture. And that's, that is really, really serious thing. We see the impacts of that. And yeah, this is just a way of saying, actually, we can do this, we can sort this, it does not need to get ugly, we can just just get going with it. Thank everything about it. And so yeah, that's what you hope for. That was that that'll answer a lot of questions in the minds, and make them realize things that they had never thought of. That's certainly what I hope for it. In, you know, I speak a lot of way I speak a lot of conferences here and overseas. We can pound print out thousands of these little booklets and they can be in people's homes, they I may never meet, but I really, really hope that it meets a need, and that it speaks to people to what they need to hear. And that moment, and it helps [00:45:16] if you had a response to it. [00:45:20] All the responses I've had so far has been positive. We're about to do the proper press release, it'll be picked up a bit more around the country, like this week. So been there a couple of things. And part of the reason why I actually put my name on it is I think there'll be things in there that will be controversial. And having come into the academic world to do the PhD, I've started to recognize some stuff about ownership of ideas. And that's why I put my name on. A lot of these things have not been seen before. And thought okay, it's actually listed as thoughts and Elizabeth ideas, Elizabeth politics. So I put my name on it is it's a minor thing. It's actually the my stuff. But also I stand behind it. And I'm really pleased that my organization with to fund a fund a trust in the Mental Health Foundation are prepared to stand behind me as well. [00:46:10] You know, I have to ask now, what, what controversial things are you thinking of? [00:46:16] Okay, so I think that some people who maybe are a little bit religious, I going to have a problem with the fact that I say that we all in here it as sexuality and gender from our ancestors, and that it's part of our wider some Marty leaders have been quoted nationally is saying that we didn't exist before. And I'm just reminding people that actually we did, there's a lot of evidence of that is not a lot of modern narratives, because we know things were removed and changed. We have evidence of that. But we absolutely categorically didn't exist. Before colonization, absolutely before colonization. And so there's some things that they were, I'm not going to go on and on about it. It's just true. So you have no evidence that it's false. I have evidence that it's true. So yeah, I'm just gonna say it. So I think those even things like I say, being a top we does not foster depression and suicide discrimination does. Because people will take statistics, it's AR Look, if you're a rainbow young person, you're more likely to be this, this, this and this, actually, it's not being the rainbow of isn't that makes you that thing, it's the impact of all the crap that you get, that makes you say that leads to depression, self harm. One of the things I talk about, I say that discrimination, and the form of transphobia, by phobia, homophobia hurts all of FR know, the pressure on, for example, young women to prove that the heterosexual that our young least be in the same six, and by six attractive girls have got high rates of unwanted pregnancy. Those in and unwanted sex, for that matter, trying to prove something and boy is trying to prove that they might show the real mean real woman. And, and so I think there's a lot of those kinds of things. I don't imagine that's a huge can be huge issue for some that some people it's going to be really significant. They're going to have a massive issue with that. So you're saying [00:48:24] that with a bigger? [00:48:28] Bring it on? [00:48:29] Bring it on? Because we need to have the conversation. [00:48:34] Elizabeth, there's so many things that we could [00:48:37] pass. [00:48:39] Okay, there's this list. And there's so many things I want to to ask you about more. But I think it's good to wrap up what we're talking about, I think, yeah. So is there anything that you've you feel that you want to add? [00:48:55] I guess I want to look going forward. And a lot of us who've been involved political things. So I've been an activist now for 35 years. And so I've learned some things. I've been an absolute follower and others, and I've learned so much, and work with incredible people and moving forward. And I guess if we're thinking about the significance, it was a homosexual Law Reform here and overseas, is what things do, we need to look to the future to achieve. And so one of the things that I want to lead and drive through to funnel funnel is a national rainbow strategy that looks across all of the different sectors around education, how suicide prevention, everything, we're involved with violence, but also the ads performance, all the things that were we contribute to this world that we say, right, what are the priorities? What are the priorities across our genders and our sexualities? Or across our cultural identities? What are the priorities for us, and to blend it all together into a strategy. So when government finds a little pocket some money, or wants to do something that we can actually say, you know, what, these are the key priorities right now. And they could second we'd rather fund this little guy, you know, what these are the priorities is has been agreed, by most groups in this country, by people who do this work by the experts in this field, these are the priorities and we work as a country towards creating all of that. And so for those that I'm a standard, lesbian theme, that I have a certain lived experience. However, in a leadership role for therapy, I have to know what is going on for people across every other identity. And as someone who works initially in our country, and the way I want to always model is I need to know what's going on in other cultures, and other people and different fields other than the ones I particularly have knowledge and, and so I see that a strategy is one way that we can coordinate our efforts across the country. But it's also a way that we can tap into our elders. And all of the amazing resource, the people who were working for us in years ago, who aren't involved in organizations is no we still value we, we honor the work that you have done. And maybe you might be available for phone call, every now and then. Or if we're involved in something they can your amazing expertise in this area, come to a couple of weeks, and help teach all of us. Those, I mean, I just turned 50 this last month. So it's great being when you're back in Brisbane and living this I'm still a generation younger than [00:51:42] I can still hold on to that for a little while longer, even though there's like three or four after me already. But [00:51:48] just a way of harnessing all of the energy and amazing this talent and skill and creativity that we have as a community head across all of our documents is of course, of course is not just one. And and but also some it gets really, really practical. So it says right, we've had these laws that have happened, what other laws do we need to pass, and I'm looking at a 20 year plan. And so the young people in 20 years who aren't even born yet, we need to be looking forward to say, right, what's the next law that absolutely must happen in this country, for our people, for our communities. And if we have that as a clear policy, we need to know what policies we need to change an important to across every single government department, I want to write that strategy. I want to lead that so that we are these next couple of years, I'm self funding this and so we have money materializes to support that work. Awesome. Otherwise, we're just going to go for it travel all over the country, talk to people, what needs to happen, [00:52:55] what whatever aspirations [00:52:58] and uncles inside of will be a national strategy was tied after to be hosting the next that Abu Yamamoto and 2017. And so lead through and Tibet as well as his Ok, so when people really someone gets an entrepreneur, put up the purchase of your community, we can go [00:53:18] pick me tell you what the strategy says. [00:53:22] The mapping of every single rainbow organization and group in this country, this is what they say. [00:53:29] Yeah, this is my personal opinion. But actually, this is what people say that that's something I want to produce. [00:53:38] I'm very excited. Excited about saying that. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks for all the things that you do.

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