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Art, Craft and the AIDS Crisis - a panel discussion

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[00:00:00] This program is brought to you by Friday and z.com. [00:00:06] character, my name is Simon Jenna and I was the little hot scene said intern here last year, and I curated sleeping arrangements as part of my internship. And this event kind of jumps off some of the things of the shows that show brings together for artists from three generations, all of whom were impacted differently to different degrees in different ways by the HIV and AIDS crisis in the early 1990s. And this kind of expands on some of the themes, and in particular looks at the creative responses to the crisis, in particular, on the east coast. [00:00:43] So we've got three speakers here today. So Richard bang, Kevin Jensen, and Julia Craig. And I'll introduce in a little more detail in a second. But I also want to introduce our friends from New Zealand AIDS Foundation, as well. So we've invited me here today baby to acknowledge that the crisis isn't over. And that though, we're talking about the history of HIV and AIDS in New Zealand, but it's very much a real life really existing thing happening now. So just want to thank them for the work that they've done in the past 30 years in terms of advocacy and support, and outreach and also acknowledge some of their recent successes, which I thought it would remember that I'm going to have to read. So they recently successfully advocate for the removal of CD for thresholds, which means it's much easier for HIV positive people to access medicines earlier. Now. [00:01:36] They've also advocated for the approval of prep in New Zealand. It's widely available now. And they're also highlighting undetectable viral loads, which is an attempt to reduce stigma around positive people, and encourage prevention as well. So there are available for informal conversation after the talk is over. And I also want to thank them again for being here. And we've also got Gareth Watkins here from pride and said, and he's going to be recording the talk. And I'd also encourage you to check out those programs at website after the talk is over. It's an incredible resource with an incredible archive of quick stories from auto. And I'm really grateful for the work without the sun. So thank you for being here. I'll now just introduce our three speakers. And then after that, they will talk for about five minutes thinks about the work that they've done, and why they're here. And then I'll ask you the questions and then I'll have an app to the audience that you'd ask questions as well. So first up is Richard bang. So between 1991 and 93, we should work to the prevention events team operating under the New Zealand AIDS Foundation, a fitness center in Wellington. During this time, he was part of the unveiling of the New Zealand New Zealand aids Memorial quilt and Wellington in 1983. And since then, Richard has worked as an independent events and communication specialist and as cultural specialist for the US Embassy in Wellington. And he's currently executive director of arts access our which is an NGO nationally recognized as the advocate for accessibility and inclusion, and arts and culture for all people not at all. [00:03:10] Julia Craig is currently undertaking her masters and art history at the University of Auckland, researching artistic production around AIDS and HIV. And she security a window gallery as well as held positions at arm's length New Zealand at Venice to he and connect the dots Charitable Trust Kevin Johnson has been involved with in the Nelson HIV AIDS support network since the early 1990s. And the New Zealand aids quilt and since late 1984 and 2012 he says New Zealand New Zealand to public talk about is a session of the quotes into the collection in our maintains the course website as a document a living document of the quilt. And he was also recognized in 2005 by the New Zealand a foundation for his work and was given lifetime membership the foundation. [00:04:01] Micah start with as I always do, when I address any group. Normally schoolchildren secondary school children are the most sort of addressed with the difference between HIV and AIDS, but often referred to in the one breath is being the same than not. HIV is a virus, which depletes the immune system of the body. When the immune system gets sufficiently low, there are 26 particular illnesses, the opportunistic illnesses, which when they become established in the body, a very, very hard to trade. [00:04:46] Once you get to have these illnesses, and you have HIV, you are said to have AIDS. [00:04:56] United States guys one further and say sponsor you or CD for cell count, which is your white cell count, but for the immune system goes below 200. That becomes aids defining as well. Americans are the only ones that do that. [00:05:16] Early on in the, in the pandemic, when someone died of for general becomes known as dying of AIDS. That was instant cremation. But he was committed within 24 hours of the maximum. [00:05:34] No time for tangy, funeral, nothing health department of the took the body committed and then following day handed back a bit the ashes. [00:05:45] So there's a lot of emotional problems arose here around grieving [00:05:52] in the mid 1980s. Now that this is within through promotion, this worldwide practice [00:06:00] still happens here in New Zealand today. But not very often, thankfully, user enters the very first country in the world that stop that practice and treated someone who died with [00:06:14] someone who had it died. They were not committed, they were treated as an ordinary, everyday death. [00:06:22] That is now gradually spreading throughout the world. The first team that died and he sound, automatic confirmations from then on. That wasn't the different says if the words HIV or AIDS appears on the death certificate that isn't cremation. If I do not appear on the death certificate. [00:06:47] This treated as an ordinary diff. [00:06:51] Now with it in the 1980s, mid 1980s, as an American nuns cleave Jones was having a lot of trouble dealing with the come to terms with the loss of his partner. [00:07:03] And he basically the story that was told by someone who'd had a lot to do with him, the sea bass at one day, he got a link the material tech to the fence, protected with some spray cans of paint. And he started feeling to take out of this frustration and everything and started feeling so much better for it. And from there, it grew into the quote or the names project as it's known as and the United States. [00:07:36] It was launched in June 1997. With it's very first display with 40 panels on display. For months later, this display outside the White House, Washington DC with 1922 panels on display. [00:07:56] Now, each of those white rectangles on my screen is made up of four blocks. Now the panel's six foot by three, the international standard grave plot size, because of the instant promotion to the vast majority of people, those are the near significant to upgrade for them. [00:08:21] With the they were joined together into block eight of them joined make a block for blocks joined together created one of those rectangles, this is from another display. We Why is actually a white walkway between them. [00:08:39] And the early think was 1992 93, [00:08:44] there was an display in Washington DC again, so last full display of the American quote, which is based in San Francisco that took 17 full trains to type the quote. So washington dc because of the size of it. [00:09:06] It's huge. [00:09:08] They had people reading the names 24 hours a day, two, three and a half days. [00:09:18] The there 42 countries in the world that have a call to project. [00:09:24] The Australian one is the largest one in the world outside the United States. It is now housed in the powerhouse museum and suddenly [00:09:34] it was first displayed on World AIDS Day first of December 1998. It had 35 panels. It's now I think from memory something like 100 and something blocks. [00:09:46] The New Zealand quote is made up of 108 single and to double panels, which have been sound together and forms 16 blocks. They're also true either individual panels. The very first panel for sale on that is the very first panel that was made for the New Zealand quote for Peter calf but in December 1988 [00:10:17] on the fifth of October 1990, when the first New Zealand and folding of the quote took place in the Oakland calorie, it was 32 panels. And it was unfolded in the presence of the Governor General at the time. Coming down Catherine says add [00:10:37] there's and also the convenience of the Australian quote, we actually bought several blocks off the Australian quilt over with [00:10:47] the [00:10:49] in 2013 I created the quote website and as as Simon mentioned as a living on guy memorial for it because and it is deteriorating because of all the math messes, followings and unfolding places that's been put onto onto grass on the concrete and dirty floors. You name it just about being there. And so it's not good for the preservation of wealth. So [00:11:29] Michael Bancroft got to negotiate papa. And between the two of us Michael and I, we got the quotes and all the documentation associated with it, really for presentation to the pepper six years ago this month on the Third of May 2012 there was presented to the pop up and it's now launched into Papa for safekeeping and with displays when space and the display program permits [00:12:05] been used the quotes of actually being used as models for various other things around the world as well different illnesses and they're like or for American Armed Forces killed in the Iraqi war and various things like that. [00:12:21] Now there's capitalism and particular I'd like to mention if you go back to that one that is the what's known as the Thai Toker hour block of insulin quilted spot number seven [00:12:37] the quote was taken at the time is taken on a tour of North Island and while they're on the Thai Thai grammar or they actually got together and they sewed the panels together to form that block [00:12:53] this one in particular upon the very top [00:12:57] right I think for him [00:13:01] when I was doing it they looked at they saw the initial solution and down the left hand side of it and the people who have bought say this is for markers family tues panelists next one wanted to know the significance of the believers [00:13:17] insane in some to genealogy and those are the initial offer census is going back generation by generation. And it turned out that [00:13:29] when the very first settled in Northland in family purchased land from will make his family [00:13:38] both the two families together again over 100 years later [00:13:46] next one please join spark never spawn I've had a lot of my [00:13:53] involvement in the making of it. [00:13:56] John's father came to me one day, but the support network the son john had died and England [00:14:05] and met and we ended up to cut a long story short the support network got together and help Roy make a panel for john which is presented to the quilt and 1999 [00:14:19] the [00:14:20] tells it like most of the panels they do tell a story [00:14:25] or have some aspect of his life He was born and raised in Auckland love traveling the world dive in England he would he was very keen Gardner subsequently the he put the car in English runners he liked origami there's actually an origami [00:14:50] bird on the end it does actually open out as it unfolded. [00:14:57] It was also indicate describing the same as his father [00:15:01] isn't the patties and also which is recognized by the wine glass and great with the music with the wine glass is fine corner the bottom left hand corner that just wouldn't stay put. So the person whose house we run having working be gone to the next one [00:15:24] is it looks a lot younger than me on the very hot [00:15:30] at the check in the blue shirt in the middle of the ROI that is John's father shortly after that photo was taken the person who are his house he ran his head down there she said I know what to do but get some super glue [00:15:51] getting all about the factors material is typically does strike three material we left it off [00:16:00] we took a hit the fan of the oak table whether that advantage is still via [00:16:08] that panel has not been incorporated into one of the blocks here that's one of the 12 plus panels and gotten [00:16:18] in [00:16:21] in you might have heard of it well be NGS [00:16:26] the famous these great artist he created this for his first lava [00:16:33] some of the things that have its own Calico [00:16:38] is some of the paintings Nathan the corners, oil and so things crack specifically dancer things will crack the time in their memories to fade but at the same time has emerged was actually done in coffee. [00:16:55] So inspired some coffee so that because the softer takes to and it will not crack or diminish over time. [00:17:05] This was a bit of the fam Tyro player around framing it and forth the tractor and but servers are worksheets net. [00:17:17] Now this the next 119 94 [00:17:21] for World AIDS Day, the panel, the committee that looked after the quote, had the problem [00:17:28] well, [00:17:30] who does do we know who died of AIDS [00:17:34] and so they created this block, there's a whole block 12 or 12 foot specifically mentioning people from around the world who have died as a result of AIDS, HIV infection. And people are the photographer Richard Michael for the [00:17:53] ballerina or ballet dancer, not a ballerina, ballet dancer, Rudolf Nureyev, various sectors, the film director Eric Chairman, and this activists as musicians Liberace is there. Or mentioned on the end there are blank one, but say for people to be added later. [00:18:17] Another one panel for [00:18:20] Roger ride. [00:18:23] The background of that was actually made after the seats of the backside of piece of Rogers jeans. [00:18:31] Roger was the one of the people at the instrumental for introducing a needle exchange scheme and to New Zealand for reducing hand for harm reduction amongst the legal drug users and the country. [00:18:48] Next one, the capital, john and Rudy, join us New Zealand that radius attachment has settled in New Zealand. people whom this is a two panels joined together, make it a double panel. [00:19:03] After [00:19:05] they died, the people who made [00:19:11] the panels actually made another one of Rudy side and sent it to read his parents. And it's now I'm blocked in of the Dutch quote. [00:19:24] And [00:19:26] those of you who have seen the exhibition upstairs will have seen the pen panel there. [00:19:34] For Simon, it's an oversized panel. And if we could jump to the next one place. [00:19:44] That is the version that appears on the New Zealand club. The panel upstairs has got the outline of the figures outlined and read the not. [00:20:00] They also you would have noticed to the upstairs the the power among the wall by initially mean spike, Spike and by Brinton power. So if we can hit the next one. [00:20:16] Thank you. That is Brendan's panel on the New Zealand quote made by his sister. [00:20:25] Thank you so much, Kevin, I'm sure you move on to Richard now. [00:20:31] Thank you very much for the introduction. And, Kevin, it's an honor to be following you. From what you've done. [00:20:42] I need to start my part of today honoring the lovers who I lost. [00:20:52] who don't have quotes, one one has a quote. [00:20:58] So I'd like to run member Ian Smith. [00:21:04] And the rants field. [00:21:08] And Justin Smith [00:21:12] and my beloved [00:21:15] Keith gray, [00:21:18] who before he got sick, took me to the airport in London and said [00:21:24] you've learned everything you need to learn in the UK now go back to Australia, New Zealand and go to university and be a teacher [00:21:35] and do everything that you need to do. [00:21:41] So when I look at the quotes Kevin, I remember those 11 mean. [00:21:48] And then I had the opportunity of coming to Wellington and working for the AIDS Foundation in 1991. [00:21:58] And [00:22:00] I've got friends in the audience now who remember the days when we didn't know what hit us, [00:22:06] as Kevin's referring to we didn't know who was going to die next. We didn't know who was sick next. [00:22:14] There was a very strong sense of urgency, emergency guilt, shame, fear, [00:22:25] shock, [00:22:27] loss, and grief [00:22:33] and no support from the National context the government to the dead stage to know what the heck was going on the posters were dying. And that's sort of Okay, I cannot I can handle that there is the problem anyway. [00:22:48] Too much six, whatever they're doing. [00:22:52] And what happens internationally is that when terrible things happen to people, when tragedy happens and communities, [00:23:05] people get together. [00:23:08] When there's no cure, when there's no answers. [00:23:13] There's nothing else to do. You hold on to one another. And it creates groupings, and holdings. [00:23:23] And doings, people start to do stuff. [00:23:29] And so when the quilt with the first quote was made, which Kevin referred to, was an expression of loss, and grief. [00:23:42] But above all need to remember [00:23:49] that his lover ever lived. [00:23:52] Because if his body's been taken away, and promoted within minutes [00:24:00] do you do with it, you have to have something to hold on to. [00:24:08] So I'm totally grateful to the first quote Micah, and all the coordinators like you who've gone forward. At a time when there was not wonderful retroviral drugs that we have now and campaigns and the ability to be [00:24:27] non transfer, you don't transmit anymore, you can't get it if you haven't got it, all that sort of stuff. In the days when this was going on. People didn't know if you could catch HIV by sitting on the same toilet or living together or kissing or whatever. [00:24:45] So it's interesting that in history, quilting, has been about storytelling, and about [00:24:56] recalling, so we don't forget [00:25:00] quilts and America and other countries. [00:25:04] I'm sure you'll talk about this. [00:25:09] Or about aliens. [00:25:12] My in my own family. My daughter has the most beautiful quote that was made by god mother. [00:25:19] And something allow treasure forever, because it's to do with [00:25:26] the heritage of the family. The significant thing that Kevin also mentioned is that a quilt in the names project or the New Zealand quote project as the size of a grave. [00:25:44] But a quote or something you put on a bed. [00:25:48] So you get two things with the AIDS quilt project, you get the finality of death, [00:25:55] that the coziness of sleep. [00:26:00] So that's how we can get to work on it together. Working base would get together and families and friends would come together. Often people didn't know one another parents would suddenly made all the friends of a man or woman who died of it New Zealand [00:26:20] and get together and start sewing. Lot of people didn't know how to sew, so they glued or they use paint, or they used clubs or whatever. [00:26:31] And a lot of healing was done through the forming of a quilt. [00:26:37] So in each quilt, in preserving the name of someone who's lost [00:26:44] becomes a story of togetherness and healing and moving forward. [00:26:52] So the ICT projects to a lot did a lot and still do do a lot for healing. [00:27:03] And the work of the quilt when it was shown in New Zealand [00:27:10] was a very effective HIV and AIDS awareness project. So not only was at the pudding to beat, [00:27:21] the burial, the grief spice, but then it had work to do. [00:27:29] And Kevin, you are one of people that made sure it does its work so that men and women who had lost became part of creating the future. So I was in Wellington, enlightening. Whenever I kind of remember when it was actually when Simon rang me and said, Could you do this other I'm not going to remember a thing here. So I had to take them to my memory and our friend Peter, and suddenly has seen us some images of what happened in Wellington. So this is an unveiling of a quote, when it a city or town. And it has a whole lot of protocol and ceremony around it because [00:28:07] rightfully so we are honoring the pattern. And we are each time the quote gets opened it, we reawaken them. So in our, for our tongue a definitive way you don't just walk into a graveyard and start to thump around you gently wake up the memory. And you all know the people who've died. And so each quote would be brought into a room folded up placed into the space. And the and violence with didn't have a job [00:28:37] of working around an opening it up. And then there's this moment of this wonderful moment when it's lifted up into a mushroom, and then it comes down onto the ground. It's like [00:28:49] life, memory all at once. It's the most amazing freeing of the fabric and the stories with another. [00:28:58] And they the Buddhist they are violence in while they're lifting it up, they also turn so turns in a circle and then it lands back on the ground. [00:29:09] Each one is treated the same way. So in the Washington, the Mall in Washington, or around New Zealand, the protocol of the how the quilt is approached and unveiled, its treated the same way. And when it's finished with it gets folded up again. [00:29:27] So you can see that and this is in the market fell at center, you can probably recognize it from that wonderful 1970s pack a floor. [00:29:40] And these images from the quotes that from that period from that day. [00:29:47] So thank you very much for inviting me to talk about that at some pretty amazing, I haven't talked about this for 30 years, [00:29:56] actually. Because you get burnt out of the closet down when you walk away and you forget or you don't. And then you get us to talk about it. So pretty amazing. Simon, thank you very much. [00:30:16] Thank you very much. And I'll pass over to Julia [00:30:20] Tina code. So my name is Julia. I am, [00:30:24] as Simon said, one of the curators that window up in Oakland, so I'm welcome based. And I will also work for us Alliance, which is an advocacy group for artists, visual artist nationwide. And I'm also currently writing my master's thesis looking at artistic responses to HIV and AIDS. [00:30:45] I come to researching HIV and AIDS as an outsider, relative outsider, I am not personally affected by HIV and AIDS, but I feel very, very privileged to be able to research the subject matter. [00:31:02] You might wonder why I come to HIV and AIDS. I think [00:31:09] my interest or the effect it has on me came from first an undergrad I remember doing sexual histories, it will come University which is very one of these papers I've ever taken. And for that we watched the documentary have spider plague. And I was really affected by the story of act up New York, and the activations that they did in the 80s and 90s. And then recently, about a year ago, I lost my father to terminal illness. And I really remembered that feeling the profound empathy that I experienced from people around me and it really reminded me of how to survive a plague and that profound empathy that I think people will with HIV and AIDS experience. And that no way did, I experienced the same level. But I just felt a real connection to those stories and the outrage that I felt from equity that I felt and I was like that could be nothing compared to what happened during the 80s and 90s. with HIV and AIDS. So I felt I really wanted to do a deep dive into that kind of research. And I felt really personally as well because I noticed recently there's been a huge boom and curatorial practice internationally revisiting HIV and AIDS. In America, there's been quite a few significant retrospective and large survey exhibitions of HIV and AIDS and artistic practice. One big one is aids America that was a traveling exhibition two years ago, around America is also been some in the UK and Europe and also some kind of reach durations here in New Zealand with [00:33:04] implicated in immune, which was it restage where we curated a microwave, and now we're sleeping arrangements. So there's this really interesting kind of re visitation of artistic practice around HIV and AIDS. And this is also coincided with, of course, [00:33:22] 2015, New Zealand AIDS Foundation [00:33:28] showed us all this HIV and AIDS is edit what HIV transmissions currently at its highest New Zealand. So it's very clear that this issue is not historic sized. It's very urgent, and really important. So I consider this [00:33:45] in the wake of this happening in New Zealand and applause. representation is really important. And so I'm interested in how artists can use their apps, together counter the binaries that have come out of misrepresentations through the media surrounding people and what it is to live with HIV. [00:34:12] When I tell people I'm studying what my thesis is about, you can immediately tell these confusion around the still confusion around the difference between HIV and AIDS. And also, people are still unclear and how it's transmitters. So it's really obvious that it's a really important issue. And then it needs, it needs to be a great discourse around it. And I think artists can be one of the biggest players in this issue. So the structure of my thesis is basically looking at media representations of people living with HIV in the 80s and 90s, in the kind of stereotypes and binaries that emerged from that, which is people living with HIV as patients, whereas [00:35:01] social cries and sexual deviance, which of course, is not true, and also HIV person with HIV as male, homosexual, middle class, Caucasian, which is also [00:35:17] not particularly true for New York, for example, New York, and the 80s and 90s woman of color were hugely over represented in as HIV patients. And so in the my thesis will look at how artists kind of circumvent or open up those binaries and offer counter narratives or possibilities of what it means to live with HIV, and hopefully, inspire awareness and empathy. And multitudes of what it means to live with HIV rather than a universal icing. [00:35:57] Kind of one story of what it is that with HIV, because I don't think one story is the same. And it's fluid and open and always kind of changing. And I know from my grief microphones, so different to everyone else's. And it's not all the same. But I also think that looking at the past look in the 80s. And 90s, is really important to understand the prison. [00:36:22] Because past and present live at the same time, like that idea of tava that past present future or is happening and unfolding at the same time. And just like how previous losses and grief lives with us, and we carry it with us. And it exists with us. [00:36:39] So yeah, thank you. [00:36:47] I just have a few questions for each of you. If I might start with Richard and Kevin, I'm interested in how you both got involved with the cool projects and how you first heard about it. [00:37:00] I first became involved with through the Nelson HIV AIDS support network. [00:37:07] When we've [00:37:10] been the support network, we were actually bad, like I looked at as being a branch of the AIDS Foundation. Back in those days, it was no individual membership of the foundation, you can be blind to the foundation as a branch. And, and the we were notified about the quilt on that through the foundation, and not be having to have the annual leave at the time that the quote was going to make an appearance and Nelson. And you just sort of went from there. [00:37:45] And how did you encourage people who maybe weren't so artistically inclined to get involved? [00:37:55] Good question. [00:37:59] Not be artistically inclined myself. It's very hard to answer that one. And I know, Troy, as I mentioned, before, they were making it was panel for john. And I mentioned 1000, that the quote existed [00:38:17] and told him a bit about the quote, would he be interested in having a panel made for john let with you [00:38:27] from the support network helping him in that and he said, he said laughter. [00:38:33] And it grew from there and factors to me in contact with Roy. And he saw him a couple of months ago. And he still remembers the making of that panel and with the glowing have to the table. [00:38:48] And who is some of the other key players in the whole project at the time. [00:38:52] And early on. [00:38:56] When I first became involved with it, when it first came to Nelson, Nikki at was the convener of the project, based in Oakland, and before the first unveiling are unfolding in the Oakland at gallery and [00:39:15] 1991. The final sort of stitching together the blocks and everything like that happened in her place, there are photographs of and the unfolding everything on the website, which, by the way is aids or AIDS. quilt.org.in said, No. And the protocols that Richard mentioned about the unfolding and everything like that they're all listed here as well [00:39:44] is Nikki had a lot to do with Nikki and I did make jeans church who predecessor as the National convener, and also had a lot to do with Dennis Moran, who took over from Nikki. [00:40:02] And he was the one who bought the quote to Nelson for the National unfolding in 1999. And you try finding a place big enough to unfold 16 blocks of that size. It's not easy. [00:40:18] And I've toured around schools night on my own. But we know we've toured around schools would normally I'm taking a bath, I don't know blocks of the time. It's more than falls in the assembly hall [00:40:33] to a spoke about this resurgence of interest in the in the 80s and 90s and the activism and discourse around HIV and AIDS. I wonder if you have any thoughts as to why now why might it be of interest now. [00:40:47] And I think so take care. He's a [00:40:52] merican curator and writer who talks a lot about this. And he divides [00:40:59] the country of story of HIV and AIDS into kind of the AIDS crisis, which was at first decade [00:41:07] and then [00:41:09] sees it as kind of over the 1986 and then mainstream point of view. [00:41:15] And which I think he calls the silence or something like that. And then now he sees, he identifies and he calls up the AIDS crisis representation, which is happening now. And I think he cites that is there's lots of anniversary is coming up. So 2016 20 [00:41:32] years since NT successful antiretroviral drugs were introduced. So lots of anniversary is coming up, think some [00:41:41] anniversary recently, so people were kind of looking back and they reminded of it, they're forced to be reminded of it. And so they want to kind of take stock of where they are now and where we have come and also what needs to stay happen. [00:42:02] Because it should they should not be a silence over it, because it is still unfolding, especially in New Zealand, we have still issues to confront. And [00:42:15] also, [00:42:18] I've noticed the media here in New Zealand, even though very small in a small scale, you can already kind of cringe at what they're about what people are saying. [00:42:29] I think last year, [00:42:29] the [00:42:32] Pride Parade, crowns, mystic and New Zealand and he had talked about how he had unprotected sex with his partner while being HIV positive, but he had an undetectable viral load. And his partner was also HIV positive. But there was still a huge, [00:42:51] huge relative [00:42:53] kind of large outcry, saying that he should be stripped of his title of mystic and New Zealand, but he had an entity load and his partner was also HIV positive. So there was no harm, no risk at all. And having a predicted six but still media grabbed on to it and kind of wanted to make a bit of a formal over it. So I think this is still [00:43:20] issues that we need to work out with how people are being represented and how [00:43:27] the knowledge about HIV is being used and what people know. So I think that's why this this this curatorial interest and artistic interest in repositioning because it's, I think it's decidedly not over completely. Yeah. [00:43:43] And so you're writing about for artists and your thesis, and those are working at different points over 30 years. I wonder, can you talk a little more about the specific artists and also whether you notice a change in approach and outputs over the over the time. [00:43:58] So of course, I am Felix Gonzalez tourists. Looking at his billboard project in Manhattan when he took a photo of his MD beard after his lover, Ross had passed away. And he took this black and white photo of any of their empty beds and put 24 billboards, I think all around Manhattan, kind of unexplained. [00:44:21] And he's kind of injecting something that's very personal, very private, into the public sphere, and bringing something that should be hidden, like queer desire for his sexuality, and loss and HIV into the public. [00:44:40] And then I'm also looking at Lyle Ashton Harris, I saw his work last year at the Whitney Biennial, he did this thing called ectaco archive, and he unearthed hundreds of old personal photographs, and displayed it in the Whitney Biennial, and it's it's overview of his whole life and his relationships with his friends, and lovers and family. And it includes big political events, like some purchase and action, huge conventions. [00:45:16] And also some really intimate photographs of this friends, taking anti ritual viral trucks and who and himself with his lovers. And it wasn't overtly about HIV, but you knew it was, it was implicit. And I liked how it was this overview of his whole life, and it wasn't looking at HIV in a vacuum it was. It showed his vitality and agency, his friends and loved ones and these whole networks of people and communities that kind of grow around loss and grief. And then I'm also looking at Kiki Smith, who's a New York artist, again, her sister died of HIV. She, I'm looking specifically at rid store, which has this beautiful, huge work of glass, huge glass blood cells on the floor. And so she's making something that's seen as infectious and dirty and making it precious and big, and large scale and glass and monumental. And then finally, I'm looking at Ron Effie and his [00:46:27] performances using his body, specifically [00:46:32] incorruptible flesh in which he lay himself in the middle of a gallery [00:46:40] and pin back his eyes and eyelids with threads. And [00:46:47] he laid naked on missile table and he invited [00:46:53] audience to care for him and rub Vaseline on him where he was bleeding and sore. And, and he did that for six hours. So he was for kind of forcing the audience to care for him. And the implication is that he is HIV positive. But he's engaging and BDS him kind of sexuality while he's lying there. And while you're caring for him, so his sexuality is very over and present and celebrated. But also, it's generational, and it's painful. And it's, it's forcing us to take care of him. And he's really earning his relationship with the caregiver. [00:47:39] And taking charge of this, which is really important in HIV is kicking the ethics. [00:47:45] Yeah, what's the other half? [00:47:48] I was wondering if you notice, what about a change in approach to how artists approach the topic over time. [00:47:56] Those Alice, [00:47:59] obviously, Felix contrasts was passed away, but the rest is still alive now that we're working around the same time in the 90s. [00:48:09] But I've noticed that I went to recently last year as at home, which was an exhibition in New York, and it looked at at us working in the context of the domestic. And there was one artist who is a young artist who I really, [00:48:26] really loved. And her name was Caleb Asia, and she's HIV positive, she was born HIV positive because her mother was transmitted through breastfeeding. And she always talks about how her story is very much, [00:48:47] not hers, and it's never spoken off and HIV context that being transmitted through breastfeeding. [00:48:55] And she's homosexual woman, and she's MOTHER OF THE HOUSE OF LOVE Aisha, which is a vocalists in New York. And she uses her body in movement invoking to express her her story. And I [00:49:17] think she's also uses her own photography, and I think [00:49:23] assets now I noticed that always throwing back to the 90s she's always bring back to her mother and her mother's activism and her art. So I think this past and present is always wrapped up in contemporary artists. And I think you can see that in that claimed in Poland, Michael McCandless. Well, that [00:49:47] I think that's a huge, interesting thing that's happening. And this like, relationship to time. And unfolding and never, the no one ever wants to universalised HIV, they're not saying this is what it's like. They just offering up one narrative, which I think is really interesting. [00:50:11] I read it in Julius writing, she writes some that can kind of help expand understanding of what families mean, and what caring means. And Kevin, and just wondering if Have you found that in your work with the quilt [00:50:28] is a lot of [00:50:30] love. And that comes through the carrying in that [00:50:37] case, in particular comes to mind to not directly so of family, but one of the secondary schools, I will say it [00:50:49] we had the parent, we had some blocks out on the floor net, and we it was open for the students to come through during the interval and that and teachers night to just come and have a look. And this is a group of senior girls came in. And one of the teachers happened to be there. And it was shortly after the [00:51:15] after the change of regime and Romania, there was a lot of orphans, who had HIV and AIDS. And they were just basically locked up and forgotten about. And she went over there as a volunteer to work with these. These aids orphans met. And she started, she opened up, she started talking to the senior girls net about what it was like looking after them and everything, how girls, the same ages, the students were going out and nights and prostituting themselves in there. And [00:51:52] as it turned out, they were they were all like getting back to class, the whole lot of them. And we must have gone through over a box of tissues for the talking in there. And it was the first time it was about seven or eight years after the event is the first time she had ever been out. Talk about the time that she spent in Romania looking after these children. A very emotional time. Yeah. [00:52:22] As [00:52:23] can be very, very powerful in that respect. And, and the care and everything that goes on it comes through, not directly through the families, because I've had very little of it. But the families have them with Roy. [00:52:37] Yeah. And we we had a lot of lot of laughter and putting his penalty came back and said they were said translators? Well, the main way that we found that the best, John's passing everything like that. Yeah. [00:52:55] Let's have one final question. Before we open it up for the audience. Why do you think will remain so important and so significant? [00:53:06] And [00:53:08] probably, because it's the [00:53:14] it is the, the memorial for a lot of people is only about a quarter of the people who have died in New Zealand don't mean but on the New Zealand quote. And, [00:53:23] unfortunately, we can still keep it in the everyone's sort of face all the time because of the deterioration of it. But also, it hasn't been added to for years now. That was society was it six years ago, it was launched with the power that that stage had been over 10 years since the previous panel on the last panel have been presented to the quote, a lot of it has come about with the in the mid 1990s with the development of the protease inhibitors [00:54:00] was [00:54:02] it was an interesting man with the drug trials in the States. Normally, they've got to have a year long crack goes through different stages of trials. And the last stage is usually for about a year, and with a large population, population base. And then when the halfway through the FDA, Food and Drug Administration in America state and told him to stop the trial, they immediately approved it. [00:54:31] family or predecessor, what's now known as family, most probably the fastest I've ever moved in the life of the fortnight that proved it wouldn't use here in New Zealand fully funded. [00:54:42] And doing so that reduce the death rate in New Zealand from one every six days. About one every three years. [00:54:54] tuned, the owner from the guaranteed death sentence within a year to a long term manageable loneliness. Because of their we haven't had the so many presented and teen says of staff to county everyone's background, a standard list touch whether the fact that it was the. [00:55:21] And Julie, I wonder if you have any thoughts about why remain so important and significant? I think [00:55:26] the the quote and all the different iterations around the world of the coat just symbolizes so much coat making i think is powerful and how it's often collaborative. It's generational, so therefore it's therapeutic. [00:55:46] This year, something therapeutic about to give them working on this thing for someone. [00:55:53] I considered starting a code for my dad when he passed away, but I tried to attempt it just seemed too hard. So I think I need like a team around me to help but I felt that need I wanted to [00:56:06] like [00:56:08] make something it's a way of processing grief, I think and I also find it really interesting. And it's it's traditionally a feminine craft, that [00:56:20] kind as being harnessed by minority groups. The coat coat making, I think, is politicized x. It's not just HIV and AIDS that it's used for that one good example is Suzanne Lacy. She made her work called the crystal quotes, I think was in the 90s. And she got mobile, mobile as a huge community of retired woman [00:56:51] and who maybe have forgotten part of society, older women, and she brought them to get there and the collaborated on this Lodge. social action of making a quote, and I think [00:57:07] it just shows this craft objects can be or this craft making can be used by communities and elevators in this really powerful way that I can't recall any other [00:57:22] medium used like that is quite unique. [00:57:27] recoat making, I think because its boundless and there's no rules. And there's so many different techniques that it becomes very personalized. And just the generational aspect, the therapy of working over something together with people using your hands as a really helpful tool to work through grief. I think so the coats perfect for that. Yeah. [00:57:50] Right. Thank [00:57:50] you everyone. I wonder if anyone in the audience has any questions for us, because [00:57:58] it's really about said, making this a place in America. [00:58:04] And during the Depression, [00:58:08] the women and men began making quilts added anything that could find. And they would always use something from somebody who would pass it quilt. And when you look at these calls, submitted old jeans, which reminded me of [00:58:25] was right. [00:58:28] That limit that genes are all shapes, or it's upsetting or whatever, and they make these things and it's very involved in the community, but it's also a necessity. And so there's one thing that will say they are a necessity, and not just something that is meaningful that you see in a craft show that cost a couple hundred dollars. And they are big business now as well. [00:58:53] And so the reason I'm practicing this with that is the most [00:59:11] money spent [00:59:14] time [00:59:18] in his mother, [00:59:22] parents to people with a script in New York City. And when she did kiddies quilt, she sent me his shirt, an extra piece [00:59:37] for [00:59:39] and [00:59:42] so you can see what [00:59:45] it is. And I [00:59:48] I always remember that material when I'm making today with my grandchildren [00:59:51] or children or [00:59:54] friends. And, [00:59:57] and the cup that shared is in every single quotes and it made [01:00:05] a very powerful thing to do. [01:00:10] Sorry. [01:00:15] Sorry, I should arrange [01:00:16] some tissues around their own this. [01:00:20] Does anyone [01:00:21] else have any questions about assessments. [01:00:29] And [01:00:35] the very first documentation that I have a store regarding the quote from the unfolding series, it was the thing. [01:00:45] But basically, [01:00:48] the Koch brothers folded from the corner into the seat time in a key and the credit a new square in the corners of Esquire taking any key in and it goes down so that the quote is folded into a blog about three foot square. [01:01:10] And when it goes and is placed on the floor theme, the for people that carrier turn on each corner, they get rich and they grab the particular corner from the center and bring it out, then they move around to the next corner move around in a clockwise direction. And then they reach and bring up the next corner and move around 99 times out of 10 the people who are doing the and falling Have you ever done that before. And instructions are given as like our [01:01:51] instructions as to what to do is done as they go in society is fully detailed as to how to do it on the flip side. [01:02:00] So if I can add to that, it's like the unfolding of an origami flower, the ceremonial components, walking, [01:02:12] bending, [01:02:14] opening, turning, lifting, [01:02:20] and letting go. [01:02:22] So some fabulous group came up with that. And they transferred it to New Zealand. And that's just what we I mean, I'm just listening to you. And that's what we did. And that's [01:02:35] a protocol that so deeply ceremonial and loving and honoring and control at the same time and it's all done with silence or perhaps a flute in the distance. Usually there's a cutting a welcoming all the courts into the space and the spices in Wellington that I'd like to let you know that the quote went to in those days, because you will walk through these places so so that you know the quilt had that ceremony. [01:03:09] The part [01:03:09] of the Botanical Gardens where there is the sound shell [01:03:14] on the moon [01:03:17] the concourse of the Wellington railway station and the bank vault. So thousands of commuters had to go through it pastor [01:03:27] for Old Men are straight more before got returned to being a street was all along them inside the Michael fallacy into and the Westfield mall, in particular amongst all shoppers. [01:03:43] And Each place has the same ceremonial opening. [01:03:48] And the quilt was at its busiest in its most active. And all those places where people haven't come across it. Once it was unveiled in the regular random people that would come would come across it and they suddenly be in it. And it's like, like walking into a graveyard by accident or you walk into a space by excellent. And so it became very, it does a lot of work the quilt to a lot of good work, [01:04:18] huge amount of work. Usually in the schools, we didn't really have a lot of time to [01:04:25] here to do go through the unfolding and met with the students, we basically just had it sorted out ready for the first period of the class of the day. And they came in they got the ambit spend a good hour with each classes they came through during the full save six message and everything as well. [01:04:48] For a couple more questions. [01:04:51] And [01:04:52] I've actually got to that someone else might get one. This one view Simon on the quote [01:05:00] is Simon, was he known to was it conditions of Malcolm by term and teary or a little bit more detail on that I know that it was actually turned out to be the wrong size for the project. But what do you know about the relationship between those three names for them. [01:05:22] So there's a man called Rob colder who commissioned the quilt who was a neighbor of mountains and involved in the sort of craft scene in Oakland in the 80s. And who also happened to be friends with Jerry Springer has a sculptor. And Tim of funnel is a composer I believe. [01:05:43] And so Rob condition different Malcolm four, Simon, who was a mutual friend of theirs. [01:05:51] And [01:05:53] it was the wrong size was politely rejected from the club. [01:05:59] and ended up with Tim and Terry. They weren't specific on the details, but I think I think it was possibly just too emotionally charged for Rob to keep and so he gave it to his friends. [01:06:12] And Richard, did you? [01:06:15] Did you actually initiate how to quoting these stitching these to make that work? And when I can I do recall your means? Yeah, it's going to one in someone's house. And [01:06:26] so you couldn't stop people not doing it. And people would just get together and there was no, no problem because there's such a need. So great moments would happen. [01:06:42] If at all possible Clinton, [01:06:45] they going up got to work one day, and he is a package sitting on the doorstep opened up. And he has a quote. No, no, nothing attached to that was that there are there there are two or three panels like this friends, but they're all made by friends, family and loved ones have been lost. And they were all made after death. [01:07:16] no comparison, like a number of panels, you know, oversee involved with making. [01:07:23] So it's just the one that I know about. For Simon Molly. And I came across it by accident really mostly. I was just looking at the quilt. So distinctively nothing Harrison style. can be anyone else. But [01:07:39] it was it was for Simon. [01:07:41] Yeah. [01:07:42] Yeah. So he basically remade the one upstairs in the correct dimensions. But I don't know if he helped anyone else or was involved in any other way. [01:07:51] possible that he came with me to the workshop. It well in someone's house was on [01:07:57] your workshop was stitching me? runs for straight? And then I remember watching our [01:08:03] peer systems. So [01:08:05] does that ring a bell? [01:08:12] Maybe just one more question that came back. [01:08:15] Can you tell us a bit more about what kind of impact kale public witness in New Zealand in the 1990s? Because mentioning [01:08:25] at wolf [01:08:28] was there? [01:08:29] Yeah, [01:08:30] I can get into that because that was my job. [01:08:34] We were really understanding that we had to turn public opinion around two reasons why stop hating us, stop fearing us. And we need to to honor our own people. And so there's that going on. And at the same time, we wanted to use anything we could to get the Health Awareness message out there to stop people transmitting disease, unexpected unknowingly. [01:09:04] So there were two really big projects that happened. One was the International AIDS candlelight Memorial, which was with an exhibition of someone would like to do their speak to me, I'm sitting on the stuff. And the other was the [01:09:19] names project and the New Zealand quote. So when the crowd kind of Wellington for World AIDS Day 1990 was at one I don't know, I'm sorry. [01:09:30] But we made sure that it got on TV, anything we did. As queens, we really work the media, we really anything that could get TV and newspaper and photographs we did. There was no internet, people. Imagine the world of low today. So TV was everything. If you did get primetime, he did a huge amount of money, a lot of value for your awareness campaigns. So a lot of our thinking was around how can we get this on TV or into the place [01:10:06] it's be with the printed media, a lot of Nelson with the local paper and that the the weekly hand out free papers and down the West Coast as well. It [01:10:21] was good because a lot of this is so visual. So there are a lot of images that you know, the quilt, candles, torches, it was all very visual. So it was good. For that reason, it wasn't just black pieces better, [01:10:34] really was probably the peak of a huge boom and [01:10:39] international. Yeah. Well, so you had a whole extra kind of gravitas follow [01:10:45] up. So it strikes me I was involved with counseling, 80s 90s [01:10:52] that there was also a very [01:10:56] serious article can be developed as a lot agricultural production with a very powerful and just hearing program, quote, right, we will not remind me that in 1991 quote that, you know, shaping organized with a lot of [01:11:14] artists, [01:11:18] quoting volunteers in so there was a sort of power around community cultural [01:11:24] development as a cultural practice, not just individual, same professional artists. And it had a lot of social currency, it for like quite soon after that. So it was sort of a very cool thing was it's a [01:11:41] model of production, but it actually had a lot of currency right at that moment in which you know, help with the message because now people are tuned into that sort of, you know, collaborative community best film. [01:11:55] Make an American, quote, American American, so you wake up license, [01:12:04] all sorts of books about 3d cost of production. Would he have examples about as close as examples of of contemporary, you know, socially relevant practice. [01:12:21] Right, well, thank you everyone for coming. sustain a really great tool. And then thank you, Julia, Kevin, and Richard. [01:12:30] And thank you Gareth as well. And surely from the New Zealand AIDS Foundation, it will be available for informal conversation just over here. And also, also Kevin's bought some historical documents as well, just in the back corner. So thank you all again.

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