Oliver - South
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[00:00:00] This podcast is brought to you by pride in did.com. With their support from the rule foundation. [00:00:08] And how would you describe your identity? [00:00:12] I'm a queer transmit [00:00:17] the language that was used to talk about identities, I will listen to six orientation and gender has changed, but of course [00:00:24] it has. I have frequent discussions with the older people in the community who [00:00:31] either don't know what I'm talking about, or think that I must be being offensive by using words like career and my mom. And she taught me and helped me off using the word queer. To identify myself my friend, she's like, No, you can't use words like that. It's, it's, it's just you can't do it. [00:00:51] Myself and my friend, she's like, what [00:00:55] do you? Well, for me, it just [00:00:59] means so gender identity, which is maybe not the norm. So [00:01:06] if you're trans and not sex, or if your [00:01:11] gender queer and not, Sis, or if you're bisexual, or gay, or transsexual, or something else, and then there's like, identities that may or may not be included, depending if they want to be as people and stuff. Or intersex people, sometimes they want to be clear, and sometimes they don't. [00:01:31] Cool. And when did you first that discovering? Six orientation or gender was different. So [00:01:40] I knew I was queer since I was about 13. So [00:01:46] without hardly and left with a guy when I was 13, I only figured out I thought were in horror enough when she left to [00:01:53] move to a different cities. So that was kind of mistimed. I didn't I took a lot longer to figure out I was trying, I didn't really figure that out until I was [00:02:04] 23. [00:02:06] And what both of those like experiences? [00:02:12] Yeah, and 10s of [00:02:16] Not, not particularly an accidental. I think the best way to describe me as queer, so it's like, cool. [00:02:25] Like this girl. [00:02:27] I guess I guess that means I must be an SPF. Oh, well. [00:02:31] What color? Did you come out kind of publicly? [00:02:34] Yeah, I mean, [00:02:37] I came out publicly, but I think everyone kind of wasn't particularly surprised. I wasn't. I wasn't friends of anyone that would have for any differently about it for if you're slightly weird to start with, you're probably not going to be friends with highly conservative people that might judge you for that kind of thing. Same for coming out as trans. Yeah, I guess. An interesting thought that came to my head when I finally figured out was like, Why the fuck did it take me so long to figure this out? Why did I have to wait until I was 23? Sure, certainly, lots of the signs were there for a lot longer, but [00:03:15] takes a while for this kind of [00:03:17] thing to click. And again, you know, if you're hanging around with lots of queer and liberal [00:03:24] people anyway, then [00:03:28] they're probably not going to judge you too harshly for being trans as well, even if, you know, they don't really know what that means or anything. [00:03:36] Did you get when you first came out as queer? Does it get any kind of homophobia for that? [00:03:42] It's hard to tell. I mean, I was a comprehensive high school in rural England. And to be honest, I was getting quite a lot of abuse just intensively anyway. And and that continued, but I couldn't say if that was because I was clear on. It was about same level. So I was, I don't think it was particular building because like Square was just [00:04:08] because I was made. And yeah, I'm not sure if it was anything to do with my sexuality or gender identity. [00:04:15] And so what was your journey into figuring out what you would trends like, [00:04:22] I was [00:04:24] dating a girl at the time, who had [00:04:30] had a few friends that were trans guys and had been [00:04:35] best friends had been been a trans guy in high school. And so she, she knew quite a lot about it. And [00:04:43] she was quite, [00:04:47] quite good at making me feel okay about things. [00:04:52] And that helped a lot. [00:04:53] So so something she kind of saw in you before you. So [00:04:59] I don't think I don't know, I don't think she she knew anything until I told her but she made me that when I when we talked about things, she made me feel that comfortable talking about things and working things out. [00:05:12] She has since dated a few. [00:05:17] A few trans guys pre transition, and she makes the checklist keeps on happening. She's not sure exactly why but quite a lot of the people that she's dated has transitioned after she's finished dating them. So [00:05:32] what listeners or things do you remember [00:05:36] hearing about being called transforming society? Like as you were growing up? Yeah, even up until you realize that you [00:05:47] my parents were quite, quite liberal, so they were fine with whether I was queer with straight. I guess the only thing that they were worried about my mom, you know, she was like, Oh, yeah, that's fine. SB is still going to be grandkids. Right? Is it is pretty much her approach, as long as she gets grandkids out of it. So I think she was slightly more disappointed about the trends. Mainly not because of the gender stuff, but because of the grandkids. I want to four children so I'm sure someone else can provide [00:06:19] intensive society. [00:06:23] queers trans stuff is quite, can be quite judged quite harshly in some parts of society. But I tend to forget that most of the time, because I tend to live in this little bubble of which is considered normal. And I forget about it until, you know, I end up somewhere and then I'm like, Oh, yeah, yeah, this stuff. I guess it's like, big vegetarian day I went to I went to my friend's parents house, and I thought, was there anything you don't eat and everything? And then my friend had transmutes for that kill your vegetarian Marco. Yeah. But yeah, I guess something's not considered weird among many people, you hang out with them. It's not until you do go go somewhere else and then quite harshly reminded or you talk to your friends that come from a different background? [00:07:17] Yeah, I've certainly got a lot of friends that have had a good deal much harder time of it than I have. [00:07:25] In terms of street harassment and stuff, I [00:07:31] I've never had too much of a problem. [00:07:35] properly, no more as a woman, probably less than the average woman. Because I think I think if you're booking people tend to pursue a good deal less than if you're if you're looking. And then more recently, just it's quite strange to see a group of like, drunk guys walking towards you. And you might feel quite nervous, and but more likely just be like, hey, God, we got to stare the arrow, can we? And then you're like, interesting. That's not what I was expecting at all. [00:08:05] Is it important to have that kind of, like sense of community and belonging to this? [00:08:11] Yeah, well, um, I don't know. It's, it's, it's always nice to have community around you. And I don't, I think it doesn't even there's not so much a community is to lots of different communities on top of each other, some overlapping to different extents to each other, you know, so there will be a community of you know, the might be this this one queer women community or another queer women community and then a sports one and a circus one or a gay man one, or, you know, are, they all overlap two different accents, and some of them might have been apart from some of them, I haven't. [00:08:51] So whilst I know, a lot of queer people, I've never been a part of. [00:09:01] Most of like, I was never really part of the lesbians community and Janine, even though I knew a lot of, of lesbians and queer women. [00:09:10] So yeah, I don't know, [00:09:12] what kind of support or [00:09:15] opportunities for community other for people. And [00:09:21] that is [00:09:22] a group called SAP trends, which I speak very highly of, which is this group of people to get that get together [00:09:29] once a month and talk about stuff. That's pretty cool. [00:09:33] But mainly, it's just sort of people finding each other through people who know people and bumping into each other. [00:09:43] You can feel [00:09:46] before I came out as trans, I knew [00:09:52] very few trans people. [00:09:57] But there's actually quite a lot of people around and then as soon as you're out as queer, trans, suddenly, everyone starts popping up from everywhere, and you realize that, you know, and Denise, even Justin to need, I know, sort of 2030 trans people. And then if you think about the people I know in other cities and stuff, and other girls as well. So that's it loads of people here. And it's just until you out yourself, you don't tend to know people the same thing with being queer. And I think as someone who has been outwardly queer for a long, long time, it's always been, I guess, that's the whole sort of queer visibility thing I've always had. And I've not really been straight passing so which is definitely has its benefits in terms of finding other queer people and making friends. And going to Sweden for a conference in six weeks time. And the week after the conference, I'm just going to zoom around Sweden, and [00:10:55] have fun. And so what we're gonna do, I'm gonna find people, my friend made the joke that I should just get him find some women, queer hackers, [00:11:03] the network will work and I'll meet people, the thing is that she's probably just about right, because there is this kind of, I think, because a lot of people, you can't sort of rely on your own family as much of the time, you might be estranged from them in some way, or from, you know, the community, necessarily where you live, there is a think, a more national, and even international sort of links between people, and that can be really useful at times in terms of, you know, and in place to stay or knowing people know, people when making friends and stuff. There's a few wonderful people, which of course, I won't name that. In New Zealand's that's, I swear seem to know, absolutely. Everyone in New Zealand, and it's always they seem to keep some kind of national international community going, you know, introducing people with people turn up in other cities and, you know, spreading the network and organizing who isn't all that kind of marketing? [00:12:08] And do you think that social media and internet kind of find more part and how we build community and connect the cross Zealand or even just in our regions? Oh, definitely. I [00:12:18] mean, in terms of the internet just means that there's a massive amount of information available, [00:12:25] particularly in terms of Eva being in terms of being queer or trans as if you're [00:12:33] without the internet, there's very little [00:12:34] information available, especially if you live in a rural area. [00:12:42] Like I remember, [00:12:44] furiously like trying to find books about being being a gay woman as a teenager, and you know, living in rural England, you'd find you find one every few years or something like that. And to be honest, most of the ones that you find would be absolutely terrible. And you'd still get, oh, look, it's the air. And it would it be actually like, yeah, they'd be either be boring, or, you know, yeah, not much there, that there's so much on the internet. Of course, I think this is sometimes I think there's probably a few people that end I've got a few friends that probably have a bit of an internet addiction, for that reason that this may be a bit more of a community and networking information on the internet than it's easiest one from the internet. And then there is in real life. And I know a few people that definitely spend most of their time on Tumblr, as opposed to meeting people in the world. But things like you know, I have, I have issues with Facebook, same as everyone else does, in terms of its business manager model basically works on taking information suddenly to other people, and that they have more information about you, then the government will ever be able to collect through, you know, a fiendishly good spy network. [00:14:07] But on the other hand, it's so damn useful. [00:14:11] If you imagine how many emails you'd have to send per week, in order to stay in contact with that many people to that extent. So you'd have to be a, you know, a proper old school man of lessons. [00:14:22] You know, like, sort of the Romantic era [00:14:25] of poets and stuff like that [00:14:26] metal environment, and like, [00:14:31] a day, so definitely makes it easier to stay in contact with people that you're not necessarily seeing every day. And especially if you're a little bit disorganized, it tells you what new events are happening. You don't have to give direct, like, oh, what's happening that's happening. And you do some kind of meet, you notice people just outside your friendship circles as well and comment on the same things you like. So quite often the IQ window of people's existence for quite a while, before you actually bumped into them. Which is, which is always interesting. economic change when someone's going to appear in your life based on how often your friends talk about them, and how often they comment on the same things like, Well, I know this person exists, probably didn't bump into them. [00:15:17] Do you think it's harder to be curtains of the [00:15:20] South Island? [00:15:23] I don't know. I mean, I've spent most my time in New Zealand in the South Island. I lived in Auckland for two years. [00:15:33] But I don't know if I can really compare that I was at high school. And I didn't find any. [00:15:41] No Africa, where people in my high school in [00:15:43] the North Shore. And the North Shore is slightly cut off, I think from the main city. And yeah, I just somehow didn't really fall into any of the quest stuff was happening in the in Auckland. I tried to follow up a few things, but there was sort of just like dead websites and things that obviously once existed, and the website has been updated in two years and staff. So it wasn't [00:16:04] definitely find that much better. And to be honest, I didn't really find that much. And and even when I first moved down here as well, I was the only [00:16:14] Yeah, it took, I think I think a lot of the quiet groups and uneaten tend to be quiet. There's not much officially organized. It's mainly dishonest sort of person to person and friendship basis, which can make it quite hard if you're new to the city to meet people. Of course, I don't really have this problem now has lived under the influence seven years. And I know pretty much everyone now. [00:16:38] But yeah, I do remember when I first arrived here, [00:16:42] I actually ended up dating a boy, six weeks into into being a character. And this was actually the first ball boy, was it only like two years before that. Anyways, but we dated for four and a half years. So and I think it is more difficult to sort of get yourself involved in quest stuff if you like. Yeah, no, I'm quick. Yeah, I know, I have a boyfriend. But people yeah, I guess you're just less likely to sort of be invited to stuff or I think it must, it's very difficult to find people underneath them. Until you've got a sort of until you've sort of know enough people that you've got a critical mass that people can introduce you to people. There are there are groups here there is [00:17:31] unique you of course, of which I've been to a few times. And occasionally I've met friends there, but [00:17:40] it's never really been an environment I felt particularly comfortable in or particularly attracted to. I don't drink. So I can't I find it difficult to hear people in loud bars and stuff. And there's nothing wrong with hearing by listening to his sounds when loud, what's going on, like separate out sounds asleep. So I find it it's kind of like, you know, what I wanted to want to meet people is have a have a talk with them. And I can't really do that in a sort of loud dance party. And I just tend to find out that crass little bit, bit course and not really that kind of make kind of seen as much as me lovely people and organizing those groups. And I suppose another group here space of which you've got a few friends are involved in. But yeah, they all tend to have their niches and I think, unless you're outside those niches that could be quite difficult to. Sadly, I know a lot of trans people underneath and they're sort of turned off and haven't been able to find [00:18:45] I've definitely not been accepted by the communities here. And [00:18:51] I have had problems being able to find any of the trans people the transcript part of South trans certainly been around for about a year and a half. And I think, flat time quite a long time ago. So for a long time, there wasn't really anything at all. [00:19:05] 30 said there's quite a lot of transphobia from the queer community. And [00:19:10] it really depends on which bit, which who I mean, there's no isn't there's not I don't think there's ever really been there's not queer community in the meeting. There's like 1214, all kind of on top of each other, depending on the age and what you do, whatever. And some of them are definitely a lot more open than others. But yeah, definitely, there's a lot of transphobia towards particularly like trans women, I think, definitely much more than trans men, I think I'm of the opinion most people have towards trans men is what they exist. This is that weird kind of reaction from like, heads of, of course, everyone wants to be a man. [00:19:53] Which is also rather, yeah, odd. [00:20:00] What's it like for 21 today, to do things like access health care. [00:20:05] And Student Health is absolutely magnificent here. And yet, they operate on the informed consent model, which I think is one of the few places in New Zealand that does, which is absolutely amazing. So basically, like, as long as you know, you seem sane, and you understand what you're doing, and you've made that decision, knowing the consequences, then you don't have to prove that you have gender identity disorder, disorder, or anything like that, which is cool. And, [00:20:35] and [00:20:35] yeah, I've had a few friends, I've passed through the same system. And they've all had a very positive response, I think I've had that. The reason why Student Health is so good is due to one particular trans guy a few years ago, [00:20:49] who [00:20:51] went in and basically gave lectures and talks with everyone until it became like that. And so I think the fact that that is good is probably due to mainly this one, one person, which is thank you very much for making it a lot easier for the rest of us. That I think, yeah, but definitely, there's a lot of variation. Certainly. I think I've had a lot of other stories from people who've gone to different sites and different doctors and have different vendors and stuff that have had, I think, good amount of a harder time of it. I've heard some pretty bad stories that I've been pretty lucky. [00:21:33] And what do you think about how queer and trans people represented in the media, we think about ideas that will sort of let us move to a book, [00:21:43] I guess, which I guess we'll start with, like the most conservative media, if we're talking about TV, and newspapers and stuff. [00:21:53] representation, of course, stuff is [00:21:54] okay. I mean, there's definitely people that are just factors. [00:22:00] I don't know, if they, they probably definitely don't have the sort of Brentford personality [00:22:08] that you desire properly very much the way the same way that even just women in TV and media probably don't sort of show the breadth of character. And it's probably about the same sort of there, but [00:22:22] maybe, you know, they tend to play. [00:22:26] Yeah, stereotypes or side roles, or. [00:22:32] But obviously, it depends where you're looking. A lot of the sort of made for TV stuff that is now available, the internet has a lot [00:22:42] bigger range of different types of people. [00:22:48] But at the best in the last few years, that's become a lot better. In terms of books, you know, they're very, very many amazing good books out there. And I guess the problem is always get getting hold of them, which the age if you have if you have a debit card, and internet access is actually pretty easy. But if you were a young person didn't have access to one or both for could could be quite difficult, because the books are out there. But this is not thing selling records or whatever the internet is, [00:23:21] has a lot of good stuff, and a [00:23:24] lot of terrible stuff. I mean, it really depends on there's definitely bits of the internet, you wouldn't want to stray on to or, and [00:23:33] yeah, I'm just as you just sort of hope [00:23:34] that the people looking for information, look at sort of sensible places and don't just sort of straight on to the depths of yahoo answers or [00:23:45] dig it. [00:23:47] Look at look at that information and just get horribly, horribly. But yeah, [00:23:53] it's okay. If I think I hope this, the next generation coming off is pretty internet literate. So they won't hopefully they don't fall down too many. [00:24:02] And what do you think some of the most important issues facing currently in the land at the moment? [00:24:08] So I would say the one of the biggest is, is abuse in schools, high schools, that can be really, really, really terrible places for queer and trans people. And we're not just talking about, you know, you know, the my baby off comment we're talking about, like physical abuse, and like widespread over time, sort of emotional abuse and stuff it can be, can be pretty bad. I think that's something that really needs to change and Dineen, we don't have any sort of youth queer support thing going on here. The P flag says it exists, it doesn't exist as it existed for about the last seven, eight years here, down here. And [00:24:51] yeah, so [00:24:53] the, on the other end of the scale, old people, and I think quite a lot of resources and stuff, it's getting better is for people our age young adults, right, we've got the energy and the time for going out and doing stuff and looking out for each other. And, but I think it is very difficult to be trans and at, especially, you know, if you don't have the family connections, that you also don't have the strength to sort of necessarily be independent and look after yourself, you can't exactly say fuck you society, if you have to rely on you know, all these people to be looked after. And I've had, I've had some friends that were [00:25:33] much older, you know, this all sort of worrying about now [00:25:36] what happens when I go into, like, an elderly home or something like that. And if your trends [00:25:43] that starts to be a problem, and again, I think it's not [00:25:47] one that anyone is really sort of dealing with yet. And [00:25:53] people tend to sort of look out for people that around them, and there is a bit of a gap between people tend to hang out with people there an age and maybe a bit above and bit below. So [00:26:04] those older people that yeah, I think [00:26:08] probably there needs to be a lot of stuff like that, [00:26:10] because there's probably a lot fewer groups and a lot less connections and stuff and maybe with the younger people [00:26:17] really think things will be in the future, say like 10 years. I don't know, I [00:26:23] would hope [00:26:26] and a lot of ways like it's getting better. [00:26:30] Certainly, like looking like my, I've got my sister goes to the same high school as, as me. I went when I was a kid. And yeah, it certainly seems to be a lot better with regard to queer issues. And it definitely was when, you know, my my little brother went. [00:26:46] But then of course, [00:26:49] yeah, it's it's hard to tell just from her, because she's, she's straight and [00:26:58] you sort of precious normal and social, maybe things are happening. And she's not noticing them professionally. She's pretty onto it. So I mentioned that. Yeah, she's definitely had a much better experience than me or my little brother did. [00:27:11] And maybe just to finish up, what is your favorite thing about being a queer trans guy in New Zealand? [00:27:20] Dinesen is just an absolutely wonderful city. And if I'm, [00:27:28] you know, if I'm bored, I can just sort of [00:27:29] wander around for five minutes until and I'll bump into someone that I know who wants to do something cool. And you can just go do it. And this yet, I think, way doesn't even sled out is built very much for community, which I think is I don't know, it's a bit weird. Like, Dineen can be things and even this very lonely city when you first moved to it. I found a lot of people say this. I think once you're established, it's very friendly city. You can easily know a lot of people and people do look out for each other. As long as they know you, which takes a while. As you can see, this is always the problem with kind of small rural towns of which Dineen is kind of a giant version of in some ways.
This page features computer generated text of the source audio - it is not a transcript. The Artificial Intelligence Text is provided to help users when searching for keywords or phrases. The text has not been manually checked for accuracy against the original audio and will contain many errors.