Snapshot 2000 - realisation

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[00:00:00] This program is brought to you by pride in zero.com [00:00:04] I probably [00:00:09] never had the chance or the opportunity to explore it [00:00:14] got married [00:00:17] and be paid into into marriage wait it didn't work I [00:00:23] started exploring the gay side [00:00:27] marriage ended my ex wife has not known about me Never will know [00:00:35] my kids do [00:00:38] my youngest daughter's interesting relationship [00:00:45] the first couple experiences are head where you [00:00:50] want to [00:00:51] play my knees were knocking or shaking or switching [00:00:57] I realize it was wrong [00:01:00] landed [00:01:04] a good more [00:01:06] more fiction. [00:01:09] And I realized that is something for a lot [00:01:13] of always lost looking at guys rather than women. For me life [00:01:18] was married [00:01:23] it's much easier now because [00:01:26] I can do whatever I want. Whenever I feel and life is so much better because I'll get both affection compassion from a person which I can get from anyone else from a guy but I can get Can I get from anyone else [00:01:46] the tendencies rules they can't suppress them [00:01:52] demonstrating you automatically you could [00:01:55] guys [00:01:57] and we get some live in [00:02:01] drain [00:02:06] the feelings of a and a very very strong [00:02:11] and you can't do anything about the main people [00:02:13] think that they can either come up but you can't. [00:02:17] Just [00:02:18] personal feelings and personal perceptions. Just like [00:02:22] some of the last one top of my lungs another topic can some person just [00:02:27] say I don't like either of them. [00:02:31] It's just personal feelings and emotions. [00:02:35] And I used to go out by myself. And I ended up in a situation once when I will die and never look back. [00:02:45] Never ever look back. [00:02:46] I was probably married about 10 years at the time. [00:02:52] Couple of people that I know [00:02:54] who have [00:02:57] just completely walked me [00:03:01] and [00:03:04] just don't [00:03:04] don't speak to me don't have any contact with me. And I will people straight in a straight world have just accepted me the way I am. [00:03:20] circle of friends has changed [00:03:24] in the last few years. [00:03:29] Real Friends [00:03:30] which I can testify as real friends have stayed [00:03:34] there probably very few. [00:03:37] And five [00:03:43] because you will friends will accept you no matter what you are never where you are. And that's what our families, my real friends. The rest of them are just [00:03:52] people that passed by [00:03:55] coming up process. I basically [00:03:59] kill the paper, but I feel a contrast. [00:04:03] And then to the people that won't understand. I realized when I was quite young, but honestly, I hate going back to my early childhood actually I hit experiences in wanted to experiment with feelings that I didn't really understand from from quite a young age. And I hit I think even before puberty, I might hit this wrong, I don't know, an auto mechanic on on guys. 48 now. So we know we got to get back on that I always thought I was different. And as I got older I became aware of what the difference was the fact that I was gay that I found boys and mean Muslim men almost always me I'm not really supposed to the end guys. physically and sexually tractor I grew up in small town New Zealand, we that sort of thing was it [00:05:05] was not acceptable, or you tried to fit in, [00:05:08] which is actually what I tried to do. At 25 I got married, which wasn't the brightest thing I ever did. [00:05:15] tended to be a wonderful woman, but [00:05:18] things were never quite right. [00:05:23] I guess when you live in small town, New Zealand and this was before you feel you have to fit in. And I get to play that by getting married over two or whatever problem it was without me or I would be able to live a life that people found acceptable and not fit. And this went on for 12 years. And I was I mean, the picture was happening either head to toe, we were talking about people being gay, I respect from them in this period production and I miss respect from from, from the bisexual across. Across the fully gay and I guess I came in the game of the spectrum. I've made some mistakes with me. And I found it extremely hard. And then it got to a point where I couldn't deny it when I was feeling fat that was me. [00:06:21] Which [00:06:24] means that it wasn't funded cities at the stage. And [00:06:30] I needed [00:06:32] that physical satisfaction, I guess that you get when you get sick with means playing around with guys and during the box and all that sort of thing, things that at the time seemed totally acceptable, which now I find rather repugnant [00:06:52] things I did that I'm not proud of. [00:06:56] A lot of other people would like to find out of exploring sexually and being on in satisfaction, sexual satisfaction in the physical sensation that you need to keep going through life. To me, rather fate. But anyway, the situation I found myself on and then [00:07:14] the feeling that I hate [00:07:17] the edification I get from feeling being constrained in a marriage that I didn't want, and not being really courageous enough to pull my way out of it. It just got worse and worse. And I've got physical manifestations with my health started to fail. And then something happened where I, my wife was involved with something that was afraid to face and that we're going to be spending the day doing something and I wasn't able to enough time in the day to do something different class I don't come to OpenStack can do for them. I got here in the morning, and what am I gonna do, I didn't know anybody. So I did something that I never even thought I did. But I I had [00:08:07] to be really, really good [00:08:08] at the system, I think I'd had really satisfying faith and we started to see each other. And it was an educated guy. He had a degree in business management and all this sort of thing. And he was sort of working as a nice good idea. For me as a media encounter. After University, my visa, we have to talk a lot in he got me to read a book called The road less traveled, which I did. And it made me realize a lot of things. And then we talked about how the life that I was living with affecting me, which was [00:08:44] fine. I knew how it was affecting me. [00:08:47] And I came to the realization that I was cheating myself. And then he turned around to me one day and he said to me now you realize you're cheating your wife as well. And I said what do you may not have taken? I've been married 17 years 18 years of her life away from her. She deserves to be to this me to die with her and see it through nice it nice educated at 17 years it doesn't she deserve to be happy and around right to be left as a woman should be left. And when I heard that and thought about that. And I realized exactly what I had to do. So [00:09:24] my wife sat down with me had a chit [00:09:27] chat with very little [00:09:33] she came to realize that I might be gay. The sexual side of our marriage, it practically died. We had no children. And I guess that was a decision I made early on that I didn't want children. Because I knew deep down it was going to come a time when I was going to have to be honest about who I was and what I was. And also I think [00:10:01] if I had children, I [00:10:03] thought there would be a stigma [00:10:05] attached to them for what I had done. Or for the type of person that I was. I realize now now that that's probably not true. And children are very accepting. And I find in circles within which I met, where I work in professionalism, what happy that [00:10:23] my homosexuality is not jealous, just not initially. [00:10:27] I'm accepted totally for who I am, I can talk openly about the life that I live. [00:10:33] The things that I do [00:10:36] that sort of thing. So you know, it's really, really cold. But once we decided to leave, right, and the physical manifestations of things that were going on the health problems and everything. So I [00:10:48] came to a point in my life where I was sort of a paste. [00:10:52] Okay, well, I knew [00:10:54] I was gay when I was about seven. [00:10:57] Oh, it's going well with the girls. [00:11:01] This guy's thinking I just want to be like them, but was a bit more than that. I basically actually come out to I was 24 because [00:11:12] my fiance [00:11:15] started drinking heavily for the getting into the drug [00:11:19] to cave with it all. But [00:11:24] once I sort of realized what was happening and went to Sydney, which is the second biggest guy capsule in the world, that seemed to help a little bit. And once I came out to my family and all that kind of thing was such a big relief to me. [00:11:44] I didn't deal with it very well. [00:11:46] Mom still doesn't deal with a very well, she's on for four years now. [00:11:53] But certainly petrified [00:11:54] about coming out with a lot of my friends that I was hanging around with the guy and I will coming out around me. And I saw how much for relief it was for them. [00:12:07] Well, how am I doing myself? [00:12:10] I came out at work. [00:12:13] Sign it. And that was a big step. For me. It was only just legal. So that was one of the reasons I hadn't come out earlier as well. I kind of told my work colleagues and all that kind of thing. And they were really, really good about it. Coming up to my mother first. That was a bit of a nightmare. I was over the phone. One thing I wish that no dumb question me about it on the phone. And I just said yes. We'll get back to me later spring me a couple hours later and how we not didn't enough time of our to have actually told my father which, which is a thing to say, which is harder for her cuz she hasn't got any one's taught to fly sister. [00:13:06] She's now Miss [00:13:07] Anaheim and all that kind of thing. We still have a close relationship, but not as close as I would like it to be everything. [00:13:19] I think I quite like the boys when I was in [00:13:24] third class in school, what's that? [00:13:27] Seven or eight, [00:13:29] which is the youngest first, but probably none younger than anybody else. [00:13:34] I didn't do anything about it until I was about 21. [00:13:38] And in about when I was about 16 I went through that denial period, [00:13:43] grow out of it, you read about [00:13:46] people being gay, and some sort of adolescent thing. And then suddenly, the world of girls opens up and to very exciting, never happened. The 21 I made God that I used to know when I was at school [00:14:05] and potentially was gay. [00:14:09] And one thing led to another. And then I did nothing for about another year after that. [00:14:16] So [00:14:18] I recorded [00:14:21] being brought up Catholic, it [00:14:22] doesn't help because you go through that guilt trip. [00:14:27] Anybody who's not perfect in any ways might feel guilty. And what perfect is it's the Catholic version of this perfect. And [00:14:41] coming up with a different method. [00:14:44] I was up to my friends, I'm still not at work. I don't see any relevance of being at work, I just see that as something which is not a business. I had quite a number of gay friends I was living in, in Canberra at the time. And any people I was an athlete for my parents and my sister. [00:15:08] And then [00:15:10] one day out of the blue, my mother rang me she was going through a really rough patch, emotionally. [00:15:17] And she'd been seeing a [00:15:19] psychiatrist [00:15:22] think she had bipolar disease. And it's really bizarre, she's very difficult to deal with sometimes. And she was signing me for a lot of things that were wrong with herself. [00:15:35] And maybe I was contributing to that. [00:15:39] And she asked me whether I was gay. And I said yes. And she just dropped the bamboo completely. She don't want to speak to me again, Eva. [00:15:49] And she didn't [00:15:51] want to twice and I tried to make contact with [00:15:55] so decided to put in a letter and centralize the same as that much we can do about this, this is how it is you're not going to change me I have no intention going to any sort of therapy, or whatever. And if I go into a psychologist, or psychiatrist, I probably say What the hell are you doing it. [00:16:15] So [00:16:16] she didn't really accept that didn't talk me into she died, she died. My father, on the other hand was quite understanding. I still saying and we visit occasionally he lives in Sydney, I live in Melbourne, my sister rang me after my mother rang her straightaway, and said, it didn't change anything. She still loved me as a brother, and we keep in contact, constantly worrying about every two weeks and her husband is fine. I don't talk to any of the other family because [00:16:52] I know I feel uncomfortable about it. [00:16:55] A very Catholic, and I think would say there's some sort of [00:17:02] maybe I do to run your [00:17:06] hands that either nine when when the changing hands [00:17:09] with the boy [00:17:12] didn't want to look at girls, I wasn't even interested in looking at girls, I got a really well of girls. That's why I was thought that I'm going to get married if you have a six sexually attracted to two women. long as I can remember. Other guys be married for a while, for about two and a half years to a woman then I broke it off after I was going to work. And then about six months ago that I decided to take the leap and do it and come out and let friends and come out and mountain when I moved to Wellington come from a little country town down south. [00:17:48] And yeah, it was a funny funny [00:17:51] reactions. Like most people were pretty alright with it because of where I worked. Most people, they are pretty easygoing. But yes, it was easy when I came out up late. But now that I've come to Sydney, Sydney is a lot harder. And a lot of people are a lot more, a lot more ignorant and even as a more open place. And I find a lot lot harder now to deal with it before. And get about it now. I'm just trying to cut with it and trying to get along with it and [00:18:23] doing the best I can. [00:18:26] I come back to my parents about a month ago in Sydney, they're back in New Zealand down south. And I like them up. And we were just talking and they asked me because I like I wasn't talking about girls. So they asked me if I was gay and I got sick of lying to them. And I said yes. And are very, very upset. My mother didn't talk, she just fell into the into the phone. And then she wouldn't talk to me at the time up. And then later on around here about 333 weeks cut out about a week ago. And he was really talk to me much as most of my family are very taking a very hard because of my family background and where we live, very, very conservative town that we lived in. So that was that was coming out to the parents, which was [00:19:14] hard, but [00:19:15] I expected. [00:19:17] I expected I actually expected a lot worse when I came out to them. But yeah, now I'm dealing with Lily via a set of the own opinions I can I can take what they like I said, my life now I just carry on and got to get over that. And yes, don't worry that there's not much I can do about it. I'm just keep on plugging along. Hopefully, [00:19:38] they come around one day. [00:19:40] How did I feel when I [00:19:42] know I'm attractive guys. I probably i think i think i knew it from since I was a very, very young teenagers, I knew it already. But everybody has different backgrounds, family. And society is especially if you're from my country. And it was usually very, very, very difficult. Especially in in Asian culture. And most of the people I think you probably know it, and they need to suppress it and just don't, don't do anything with it. And people didn't get married, which is very popular in you know, wherever you come from. For myself, I think I knew it since [00:20:31] I was a kid. [00:20:34] I didn't do anything with it. I was still like, do [00:20:37] whatever, [00:20:38] society or my family or other people, my classmates what they do, and I get a girlfriend and you know, hang around with them. So I actually got a girlfriend, and we've been sort of seeing telephone quite a long time. And most of the time I'm with her, we should talk about getting married. That was when I was in my 20s, early 20s. And we actually got engaged [00:21:09] just because [00:21:11] I think it's the right thing to do. And, and also our family size are, you know, waiting to happen. And I kind of got go along with it. But I knew the whole time I I wasn't happy. And it's not really me. [00:21:32] So [00:21:33] I kind of cancelled the marriage. [00:21:36] But I had to get away from it from my family and older with people. Because I feel like it wasn't right. And, and not funny, useful for both of family. And I wasn't ready for marriage. So then I started thinking about going abroad to study there. 30 Canada [00:22:01] actually, [00:22:02] that was the main reason why I did that is [00:22:06] get away from my family and [00:22:07] you know, find myself and have a [00:22:10] perfect excuse for everybody. [00:22:12] So I said I just wasn't ready to you're not really ready for for anything yet. Then I went to went to Canada to study. And now it's time that really close to my house to the UK culture. And I was first time in a Western countries. And I was free and you know, willing to explore and talk on Skype on bars and getting smaller, no more people are realizing gay. Man, this is not a mistake, or is not something wrong. You know, I I'm not the only one a lot of people like they're very confident of themselves being gay, gay more and more confidence, then realize this right? You know, I don't have to hide it. So I guess I sort of realized I was guy, right from a very young age when I looked at a man or, you know, attracted to him and looked at him out for what am I getting [00:23:19] thrown out young Papi didn't realize [00:23:23] that. And I actually didn't come out till about two years ago. [00:23:27] And I'm 25 now. [00:23:31] I guess it took me a while to accept and come to terms with the fact that I was guy. [00:23:39] I'm glad that I am now I find that I'm a lot happier [00:23:46] when I sort of performing timeout, and how everyone else guy was so [00:23:55] weight lifted off me and other lot happier. [00:23:59] Pretty much. Everyone took it fairly well. My mom already sort of pretty much knew that I was guy as the sort of some friends that I worked with, I guess, having close contact with me unless I sort of pick up on the phone. But I was guy even before that sort of said that I was my dad was about the only one didn't take it very well. [00:24:31] Thought it was a wise [00:24:34] choice to the camera guy. [00:24:39] Your Phone Guy [00:24:45] told him about his role. He didn't at first want to see me at all. But now I got my brother for my friends actually told him I told him often. multi family family, blah, blah, blah. Get over it know that. [00:25:10] Things today [00:25:11] forgot about it, that we don't [00:25:14] really talk about it likes a few comments. Queer last, all of the rest of us [00:25:22] tend to ignore [00:25:24] me I know [00:25:26] that I am [00:25:29] not a different person to who I was before I came [00:25:31] out [00:25:33] shouldn't be treated any different. [00:25:36] I think you didn't really it was supposed to be realized, okay, yeah, I do know I am. And I'm accepting that I am. Whereas I went through a stage of denying it for a long time. I thought that justifies I'm not really gay. I suppose as you get older, you mature and you realize, and I'm, I guess it was really early at 14. And I came out to them because I'm by that stage, non God. I just for many, many years. And I just had to tell someone, so I told my best friend and feels kind of like shocked. She was like, Wow, she didn't know what to do. So we can leave a speck about that. And then two, three months later, all booked up again, I was at the stage, I just had to tell someone. So one day mom was in the shower. And I wrote her a note and said, Hi Mom, I'm gay. And I put it in the slipper. So when she got herself, she put a show on founders mode, and Raiders. And from there, she kind of walked into my room and goes up with this nice I'm like, Oh my god, and we talked and then we cried and talks and cried and forth and 5000 hours. But I thought that was a really, really good move. And I'm just having someone there that knows for support was exempt and that the event was my life my original coming out process. And by that soda logically now and I was at school by a few applies. I had got suffered with both Apple, the game, and everything that skills just kind of getting really, really annoying. And I just kind of like broke down in class one day. And from the event kind of asked, you know what happened? Why and so I told everyone and have kind of the worst mistake ever made. And I actually recreate coming up at school. Right? Eventually that my counselor told me, I should tell dad and I'm like no. And I'm mom just told him behind my back one day. And that stopped speaking to me for six months, which was kind of hard. I guess he just made those times get over it because he's the real mad man hills in the fist sustained he left us to some teeth and a fight he drinks beer and whatnot. [00:27:43] At school, I went to an all boys [00:27:46] kind of upper class go for somebody to a class that [00:27:50] just edited with he had to be Mattos to write. You had to buy the f5 rugby and if you went to a different and your hassles, and people are me, Ford walk up to me in a quad and go over your favorite. And I'm a godless dangerous too much. And I had heaps of friends of going to school me and my wife my other friends Lyft to attend skills to a coward go Ms. The best movie ever made. I get very little hassle there. I find this is such a different atmosphere. Excellent. That's that you've got girls here. And this is not so much the male egotistical thing where like you have to be something and be able to succeed too. But yeah, and it's also very much relational skills. I mean, suppose at some other point that I mean, Iran is different, and they just accept you for who you are. After that, I mean, bonito introduced me to a lot of gay people, I suppose that also helps me. I had a good friend, like that was always there for me when I was coming out and offered me advice. And I always ask the question, and I mean, I suppose that was really good. Again, having that support somebody can talk to, and they can help you through the process of coming out. I mean, I'm supposed to suffer shine, and he introduces you to more people and more people in the Vinci that's good to know, hello, Faisal. And you create a whole group of friends outside the upside the guy in the other support, and you realize you have the only one and that you're normal. And that there's other people like to a genuine like you, and it's a snake. Wow. So yeah. But again, go I mean, coming out of school was like a thing I regret that kind of rush out. And I, by the way, don't get the toys to estimate themselves. But I don't recommend it at the moment. Because schools just I'm totally ready for it. I mean, tape says to them, I water divert by the signal to the harassment [00:29:42] by just ignore [00:29:42] the harassment, and I hadn't made the tapes and everything and nothing will happen pay to try to choose not to listen to all that suppose. And that was such a hassle. And I'm still no advocate the harassment, it's not as much. But ideally, I suppose the telling a few good friends. And that's all you need to tell. And you just leave it at that and that you've just got to support their wishes, the main thing for you, other than that, like this with parents invite you to speak, you know, when the time is right, it gets to a stage where everything folds up. And you know, the time is right to tell someone and you just something, I don't know how to explain it. But I just was like, wow, I need to tell someone, and I did. And I suppose that happens at different times for everyone, because a lot of my friends now come off at 16 1718. And, you know, they came out really early, but it's just something to know that what has to be done. And I guess the the founders of iron Postmates just grew, I feel like I think that some people are born gay, you're not a you know, you don't learn to be gay. Because when I was really young, when I see some handsome guys, I would like get an erection. But I do realize that, you know, I have a feeling for guys until when I was my first year in high school, like one is 15. So that's when I started to accept myself as someone who was filming four guys. And now I'm in the concert, you know, I don't go out. And none of my friends know that I'm gay. So I have to go to the internet to meet someone you know, in Canada. And I also go to some porn site. And that that really excites me. And I compared gay porn and straight porn. And that's when I realized that what I really want, [00:31:44] what my sexual preferences. [00:31:47] That's what and then when I met the first guy on the internet, we had coffee, and we talked and we had really had fun. So. So that's how I realized that that's what I really want. And I will be happy being with good. Because of my age and only 19. And soon in college, and my parents, they i don't think i think they will accept me as homosexual eventually, but not easily so and supporting me financially. So I'm waiting till I graduate from college and get a job and settle down to everyone, you know. So I think that's going to be a big thing. But I am going to tell them eventually, because my mother is always expecting me to marry someone and have kids and stuff. So I think that's going to be a big disappointment for her. But I have to tell, because I won't be happy. If you know if I do what she wants me to do. [00:32:53] I think I first realized I was gay. [00:32:56] Probably when I was in my late single figure years, I would guess probably eight nine. And in Japan, I realized the feelings I had for but for love and romance. And my first sexual awakening were not for people of the opposite sex, they were for people the same sex. And thanks for having a fantastic family upbringing. From a broken home, my parents were separated when I was very, I was very close my mother and her new male partner. And I didn't have any problem with that in myself. So that's not to say that I came out to my, my parents at that age, I didn't actually come out to my mom till I was 1819 years old. And years later, but just knowing that the support was there. And I think in reality, your parents always really know whether their child or in a son or daughter is gay or not. I think that it's a lie to say I didn't my mom never knew my dad never knew. I think they've done they do it the same as the husband is having an affair or the other wife is messing around and our lunch break was coach Greg late, you just know you know something's wrong. But when it came to coming out to my mother, which was kind of reinforced to me at the time, because it was I was in a gay relationship at 1819 years old. And I live in London, which is the capital of England and my, my mom and I live in como, which is a region some sort of 250 miles away by rugged and when it was it was a long way to go. It was a long journey take being forced into it by boyfriend, he was determined I should come out to my parents and family before he could truly love me. I'm going to show for same sex relationship if you don't know what the rules are because of your upbringing, insights around the heterosexual IPOs. And stereotypes of what good relationships are and how they work. When you're suddenly thrown into something that you really want very much. You don't know the rules and how the game is played. So I accepted that as the norm. And travel down for most of the days and come out and be honest, in my my family. It was over Christmas. And I remember the precise moment vividly. We were watching JFK do the same movie, on TV ever since I was a very young kid. And I think it's good to separate them on my mom and dad life and I would try my mother on her bed, not in her bed under the covers up under the covers. Now just down the side of the bed me watch Telly together for a little while and have a chat and I go to bed and you know we will go free. And both remember sitting there. And I think there's a moment when Kevin Costner and 50 states that have around because the family's falling behind the movie. And I said, Oh God, I'd love to have kids and mom and my mom saying that you will have kids right here. And I said, Well, I didn't know, it was when you get that fundamental moment where you don't quite know what to say. And as a poor fills. The gap is as long as a lifetime but in reality is probably a nanosecond. And Manoj is something he wants to tell me. And I said and vivid, as opposed to the first person I said in the third person, your son is guys. [00:35:56] Jewish, he said [00:35:57] fantastic news. Fantastic is psychologist told me as long as you're as happy as you can be, and you're safe as you can be, it really doesn't matter. And that was it. That was nice, trying to cross the wall and soil falling everywhere. There's no red wine glasses being smashed, there was no, your father never wants to speak to you again. It was that simple. And the feeling of coming out. And having that final boundary of honesty, [00:36:21] confirmed both both together [00:36:24] was more missing than I think anything I've ever done since anyone ever posted. Because when you're truly honest with the people that love you, and you can truly be honest with yourself, the first recollection that I have, of being attracted to men, which probably sounds a bit trite considering that I know, plenty of structured environment now who've had mutual masturbation experiences with other men. And that's all it was. But for me, it always stuck in my head, it's been more significant than that. But when I had been put into six months at a hospital, it was called the I'll be home for crippled children with them with a more imposing than it really was that I was being treated for asthma. But some of the other children, they have kids with real problems I deliver my babies and such. But yes, men extended baby privileged. And you were a bit more mobile than the other kids didn't have a wheelchair very that for example, in the front of the class, many kids, john and i. [00:37:29] And we had an arrangement where [00:37:33] to use the race at night. [00:37:36] One would get up because we had a dormitory that was quite secure, like the nurses, but I need sort of tucked you into bed and then you see them in the morning. But get up, go to Lowes. And if you wanted to the other boy to come in it. Because internet is not far off what happens in big culture, but and we just feel each other, both. And I just remember feeling really special and really enjoyable. That happened several times when I was in behind. [00:38:11] And I don't think I had [00:38:14] physical contact again with another man. [00:38:17] Until I was probably like 1670. Basically, it's been something that I've always sort of felt, you know, I never felt like I was anything different. You know, I've always been interested in boys. You know, from a very young age. I used to collect pictures out of magazines. And I'll at the teen magazines like my sheets and all that sort of thing. I used to collect the pictures and stick them in a diary and hide it from my mom used to stick it in this little gentleman put it in my bed, believe it or not necessarily buys it, but my mom [00:38:53] might have found it sometimes. [00:38:56] Yes, and I sort of started dancing and doing entertainment, Todd stuff, seeing and acting when I was like nine. And that brought me out of my shell a little more. And was actually I had a performance one night. And I had to wear these really bizarre ticket costume. And there was some God in the audience. It was giving me handfuls of calling out stuff and from the audience's stuff like that. And then it was actually in the car on the way home where my mother actually said to me, she was you gotta be careful, you know, you can get yourself into trouble and rah rah rah rah. And it was at this point, [00:39:33] I think was like 16. And [00:39:37] I was sitting me I was like, gripping the handle of the car, and I'm just like, [00:39:41] Oh my God, oh, my God, my [00:39:43] topic was in my throat. My heart was pounding 500 times two minutes to the minute and I just sort of sort of came out with it out, right. So, and I was nervous as hell. So I just did it. And I said, Mom, I'm guy. And his response was, I you should? And I said, I said yes. And so we heard the most empowered comments I've ever had in my entire life. And from a webinar, that was like about 10 o'clock at night, I think my when I sign up for four o'clock in the morning, just talking. God knows what we talked about. But we thought as we got up getting old I you know, so that, that was the first time I really poured my heart out to my mom about how I was feeling, basically. Yeah, and after that, I sort of sort of dealt with the rest of my family. And suppose I didn't want to tell my dad to start with my dad, and I've never really had a fantastic relationship. [00:40:46] I was always a mommy boy. We tend to be a bit [00:40:51] more not to send to that. [00:40:54] Yeah, I've never really had a good relationship with my dad. My brother was a very sports orientated person. So and as he's my dad, so they had to sort of Father Son thing that was going on. And I'm just like, yeah, okay, they can have that. And I was a little mommy's boy, which made me the, the good cook that I am on my side. She taught me everything tonight. Yeah, so I didn't want to help that at first. And then mom, my mom, she likes to talk about problems out and, you know, and how she's feeling and taxes, Ada telling my dad, my dad was quite shocked. And then mom was a to tell the rest of the family, my grandparents. Often, she would just tell me that she told them and I'd be like, Oh, thanks. So that's great. I really I had, I only had to go through it once. When I was 15. So that was good. And I've had the support of my family, the hallway, I've had not one negative response from from my mom, dad, my dad didn't understand it at first. And it took him a couple of years to actually connect with me on this subject. I think we were actually watching a program on TV one day, and some had some guy issue on it. And I got up to lay the room because I really wanted to watch it and go into my bedroom, which into my room. And he said, he actually said to me, nice guy will watch it. And I sort of looked at my mom and I think I started crying. And it was like oh my god. So that was sort of the first time for dad anyway. And that would have been in that phrase down the track. But anyway, back to my face my family and said no nigga response from a two sets of grandparents? Or are these are uncles or cousins or anything? Want to tell my brother now this is a very funny story. I told my brother and he didn't believe me. He's like, He's such a bullshit artist. And I'm going going off mom. That was my [00:42:56] my first sort of responses going off [00:42:58] mom and then I put it the outrage magazines that does it have a look at these? Why would I have these and he didn't believe me to at the [00:43:04] start. So As for me, [00:43:08] I realized quite soon, I was different from other guys. In fact, as I was six years old, I noticed that it was the only guy in my school to have just girlfriends, I had new boyfriend. And so I noticed that I couldn't say what was different was maybe. So I accepted it. And [00:43:43] 30 years later, when I was a teenager, [00:43:48] it became more obvious that something was differently. My friends, if I may use the word friends, because I have no real friends that at that time, [00:44:02] I was okay with other people. But [00:44:05] people used to choose me as a friend, I didn't choose people as friends. And that's quite different for me. So the people who were, which were living with me [00:44:17] always speak about skills, and [00:44:21] they try to give them notes or things like that, say, skills is quite wonderful. She's quite nice, would give a wonderful note A or B, or C. And as for me, I would give note two guys, two boys. So that was quite difficult at that time. As I used to live at the time in the countryside in France. You know, it wasn't the 70s and the 70s. And the time in France, it was quite difficult to speak about homosexuality. In fact, people didn't really speak about it, when you it exists, but the images that you had, in films or books that homosexuality was quite awful. The people who were supposed to be homosexual, but always represented as [00:45:28] almost female guys, [00:45:31] when you were not such a guy, it was quite difficult to identify yourself with such people. So when you had noticed you were most of you attracted to two guys, it was quite hard to accept the fact that it became easier when I grew up, I grew up on a move to to Paris for my studies. [00:46:01] And then [00:46:04] quite some friends a lot about living in Paris. I wouldn't say it is a [00:46:09] game maker. But [00:46:12] in fact, when you will use you used to live in the countryside, Paris seems to be wonderful. So when I began my study in Paris, it was the first time I could live in my own my own room, or my own things. And the room and living on my own. It was quite interesting and very interesting experience at the very beginning. I wasn't what we call in France, internet, internet, I don't know, there's an English word for it. So, you know, when people are sharing a room where the [00:46:59] future together. So [00:47:04] at that time, at very beginning, it was quite hard for me because I was quite afraid to just a dream to sleep with other guys. I didn't know how I would react. So I remember [00:47:20] that time [00:47:22] I made up my mind so that [00:47:25] I woke up very early in the morning, just to take my shower [00:47:31] alone and not have to [00:47:36] cope with other guys and to trust to see them on the shower you see [00:47:42] sometimes quite difficult not to react so. [00:47:48] And then I had to cope with military duty services. Right word for it. In France, we have to, to spend one year for military service. So I did it, I must admit it was I was put your faith also to do it. See when you have to share alive for many other guys from quite in quite nice and difficult to not to not to react so that [00:48:26] everything was quite okay. And so [00:48:30] now, there wasn't quite as many problems. [00:48:33] And then I've been able to really live on my own to say I had my real my own flats, which was quite wonderful, at same time. And then, at that time, it was the middle of the 80s. It was at that time that he appeared. And many people were talking about diseases, homosexual disease, things like that. [00:49:06] But the positive effects was that [00:49:10] actually, people could speak at that time, but it's exciting even in the bad side, even if they can just put to speak about itself. But the very beginning. And at that time in the middle of the 80s. I chose to have a little what is I don't know if you know what it is. But it is what we can say is a sort of an ancestor for internet. And that was quite interesting. You could dialogue first right to people you had no ideas about. It could be anywhere in France, where the miniature existed, the diagnosis writings and phone them and the meet them. And it was quite interesting. [00:50:06] So of course, there were [00:50:07] specific such services for gays. So I use them. And it was the first time I really met, people were feeling like me. [00:50:24] It was very interesting for me. Interesting. And [00:50:27] sometimes, [00:50:29] I must admit, I was quite disappointed. And as much as I didn't expect so many people to be to be sad to be to feel quite lucky with my sexuality. I know, several people have already tried to commit suicide several times because of their homosexuality. So [00:50:55] I requested quite surprised because [00:50:58] for me [00:51:00] hasn't raised some money problems. I had accepted my homosexuality even if I hadn't really lifted that moment. Well, I guess I first realized I was gay when it was about 14, when you first get your sexual development or something. And I realized I was fantasizing about men rather than girls. I felt very confused about that. Because Well, it made me feel a bit of an outcast in high school and all this stuff. Because all my mates were getting the girlfriends and, and I tried to go along as well, because we're actually quite a number of girls that, that were attracted to me and approached me to approaches. But I was, you know sort of fended off or kept it away. So for the first, I guess, four to five years, I was convinced it was just a phase in puberty and would pass to grow older. When I grew older in like 1899, I realized it wasn't going to be going to pass and I still hadn't told anybody and I wasn't even willing to accept it for myself. So I still had this big secret, I remember I was thought carried is this really big secret with me that nobody knew I not even my parents or anybody. And and that actually might be more of an outcast, rather than being gay, I guess is because I became a bit secretive and bit evasive. And I didn't feel like I really, with part of a group of friends, because because of this big secret. And that continued until was like 2425, when I first came out, and all the time to 14 and 24 I never ever had either a girlfriend or boyfriend never had sex either. I didn't dare because I took me that long to, to get to terms with my family. And I even you know, I, I was living in Holland, when I was 14, in a small town south of the country, about 100 kilometers south of Amsterdam. And it was a very protected, protected family, I guess we'd be been living abroad quite extensively. Before that, I'd seen quite a bit of the world and and in that sense, I was well developed or, or had an all round view of life. But I guess my my background is a bit conservative. And I felt very much like I had to live up to the expectations of my parents. My father is a very successful businessman in the Netherlands. And he was, you know, he lived a lot with known figure in Holland. And I felt I had to equal that at least, and be engaged, I didn't fit in that picture at all. So I wasn't happy with that. And then when I was 18, no, I was 19. I went to America to call it and went to college in Massachusetts for a year. And then I came back to Holland when I was 20. And went to business school in Holland went through that, and that was very conservative, very much like the the Ivy League kind of business school 14th century castle, all that stuff, and appeared to be a lot of homosexuality on the campus as well there. [00:54:36] Because it was like, a very closed [00:54:39] environment with a lot of a lot of men. And but it was an absolute taboo. So that sort of reinforced my my own feelings about homosexuality and, and confirmed that it was it was something very bad into something you have to be very secret about. So I went through Business School for three years and graduated, went back to the states and had my first job in New York. And I lived in New York in Manhattan for two years. And again, you know, with a very, very accessible gay environment. And I could have easily started experimenting and finding things out. But as I was working for the conflict, which again, was a very sort of conservative environment. And I didn't dare to do anything. And actually what I what happens I got in, there was this girl in New York, a Dutch girl that I met, and she fell in love with me and I read a really loved her for being a maid. And we got along very well. So it's 40 out for the outside world, we were a couple. And we show up at all the parties that that we got invited to through the consulate, and with the with all the diplomatic corps and all that stuff. And we were like, the perfect couple, we were very good friends. And we have very, you know, very common interests. And she was at really charming and very entertaining to all the people that I had to entertain in that job. And so we were like, really, really the perfect couple. And then I remember, I felt like Oh God, if only I was I was straight, I wouldn't found my perfect match, I would marry this girl. But then one point he and she wanted more she wanted sex. And that's that's that was actually the point where I she was probably the first that told that I can't get you what you're looking forward. And we have to, we have to stop this because I can't make you happy. I can't, I can't. I can't be the person that you deserve. And we did have sex once. And it was awful. It was absolutely awful, because she was taking all the initiative, and I just let it happen. Because Well, I mean, I thought she deserved it basically. And, and I was very confused as well. And after that I cried and cried and cried. Because that I guess was the point where I realized that I was gay and was not going to change. Going back to grade five. Being in private school and having school [00:57:07] I was always attracted to the mail phone, [00:57:10] a lot of the time in the change room, and we're getting changed at school. And I remember looking at, like one of our pages and our principal in the locker room is getting changed after having the swim. And I was just fascinated with the payments and having hair on it. And so Wow, I'm really attracted to this thing. And then from then on instead of building up so when you as a young child was quite flamboyant, and I was into like the makeup and the nails and those all kept up when I was a little boy. Then I got to about high school. And because I was living in the West, it was quite difficult coming out, especially having the real macho world boys. Even though that I was a European boy, I found it quite hard to express myself at the age of 13 and wanting to dance. And I want to be like a new talent time. And [00:58:04] I say dancing [00:58:06] now since I was six and I'm 22 years of age. And all through dancing. I was very scared to come out. Just in case because it was so competitive for I was there scared to about 11 I was to have them come out but I was slowly coming up because I was doing painting and I wanted to become an artist. And through my life I was focusing on the male form, we used to have luxury models coming in and try to focus and I enjoyed painting and drawing my own news. From then on to about your trials, I met one of my friends. And then she was a lesbian and with decided I used to have girlfriends like I had a girlfriend six months I was intimate with. But I didn't have any sexual fantasies to towards couldn't. In other words, get us out to have intercourse with that we kissed and cuddled and I really liked it. She was very attractive girl that like long blond hair with great breath. And with to go out to the club. We go down to Kingstree, which is one of the public health clubs could inflation. And we spent around and then slowly, slowly, I sort of met this lesbian friend of mine and I thought she knew I was gay. And I was in denial. No, I'm not gay. Don't even mention that. So we ended up going to a club one night, and I wanted to try kissing a boy. And going to this club, like walking into three phases, which is the moment but it's closed down now. It's called the market walked in and I thought oh my god, I was expecting him to walk around in the mood. But they went they were jumping around this techno music. And I got into the podium because I was a dancer doing the competitive work. A guy confronted name. And I was really scared. And I sort of said, No, I'm not interested. And then I went up to my friend I said all you know, are we going to pick up tonight? The lesbian girl that I was with? And she said, Oh, no, I don't think so, too. We go to Adelaide to pick up all these beautiful people. And then from then on, I was [01:00:21] like, Oh my god, I'm too ugly. I'm too ugly. [01:00:23] So he came up to me again. And I remember having a some right cheek just a little glitter style that he can get from safe. I was just little with a little sparkle. And he said, Oh no, get rid of that. And so he flicked it off mine. And then I kissed him. Moser with one of my best friends and my brother. And my best friend had big strong feelings for me. She was like in love with me. Why don't you give anyone else a chance, not me. [01:00:51] And [01:00:52] after kissing, this guy left my best friend who I adore, and we will always close together. Then from then on a set of realizing my sexuality. My art was very influenced, I was very Flipboard it came out into my dancing way before too scared to do move where now I'm just like, let everything go. I am who I am. And I'm really happy of coming out because coming from a religious family being also great. It is affected me especially with family where I confronted my mother and I told him that I was gay and she absolutely went ballistic. She's like, [01:01:35] I prefer to face myself did buried [01:01:38] to see my son holding hands with another man. [01:01:43] But I sort of confined to servants. And this is how this is my life. But by that rubbing with it, I'm still living at home at the moment. And working. I don't really flaunt and the guys that are bringing the boys home have had boyfriends have had several different boyfriends. But I don't think she's ever met any of them. And if she has, we haven't done anything to show to that that was my man that I was waiting. And I'm just happy for coming out and being the person [01:02:14] I was. And I [01:02:16] was I guess about [01:02:20] 10 years old. And it was summer. And the boy across the street his name was Bobby Mintel. I saw him with his shirt off in jeans. And I was stunned by the build. He had, he was about 12, I would guess a little bit older than I but a deep tan, and a muscular chest besides being very handsome. And it was the first time that I was ever conscious of having erotic feelings towards somewhat of my own sex. And I never got to tell him to do anything with him. We were just friends. But I always did try to you know, see as much of him as I could, because I just thought he was beautiful. At that time, of course, we're talking a lot of years back. Nobody, really, at least I didn't know what being gay was. And I just knew that you were supposed to if you were a male like girls, and so I just dismissed it. And the few subsequent experiences that I had like that, through the years, I also just enjoyed them for what they were and and and I get to chase girls like every other boy and go out with girls and [01:03:50] eventually got married. [01:03:53] And I have to say that I did love her and I did have exciting sexual times with. So I think that what I was hoping for was I would grow out of my desire for men also. And it didn't happen that way. Of course, the older I got, the more attracted to guys. I was and then seeing some of the, from our attic magazines on the newsstands It was so famous. And in those, you know, in those magazines, I found out that there must have been an awful lot of other people like me for more than I ever thought. And I started buying those magazines. And they started getting excited by the models in the pictures, you know, athletic model guild and places like that, mostly from California at this time, male physique and muscle boy, my favorite magazine, a lot of New York, if you know any of those. And, of course doing that while being married, I had to eventually get to a point where I just decided, I guess this is the way I am, I now know that I must be bisexual. And I just accepted the fact and knew that I had to hide it from everybody. And of course, the older I got, I seem to go more towards males rather than females. And eventually, after many years of marriage, my wife came home unexpectedly from work sick. And I didn't hear her command because we had a four level house and I was up in the office. And she heard me on the phone with another guy. And she knew right away. We're where the way they were. And when I told her she being very religious, decided that as much as it would hurt her, she'd have to divorce me because she couldn't share me with a man or even have that thought. So I was divorced. To get a, she felt that I had betrayed her. And I felt that if she really feels that way, I shouldn't ruin her life anymore than perhaps they had already done. And with three children. I really say this game is 15 years old, actually. And it was never an easy thing for me, I always knew that I was gay, I don't want to deal with it, I just wanted to get as far with the color because I didn't know much about it, I grew up in a very small town. And it wasn't something I wanted to do it. And one day I watching a TV program. and I were talking about two teams, and they were coming out. And I can identify with so many of these kids and really helped me to realize that it's not something to be ashamed of something that you should have to hide or anything like that. So that will be was actually my starting day. In the summer, when I was 16 years old. And ever since then I was feeling safe. And also 16, I got very comfortable with it. And it took me a good year to be able to [01:07:39] grow up to the idea and get used to [01:07:43] being able to utilize the fact that [01:07:47] I was a child to come in and how I was going to actually be into the friends and family if I would ever for a lot of questions you're going to my head and I went through at a time I just kind of like to do go through it alone. And I didn't want to have to do a whole lot with talking to anybody about it. Kind of a self discovery time for me. And later, I just wanted to see what other people had done and what their previous issues were and the they, what they what they hit them the first time the parents, teachers, friends, whoever. And so I just, I started attending a support group, and I got a lot of support from them, finding out how some of them came out to different people, male and segments, something to them and realizing that somebody something to you that the male going to continue their user accepted and be a part of your life. [01:08:53] and be a part be a part of who you are. [01:08:57] I've never been able to like actually give a good answer for when, when I first realized I was gay. [01:09:04] It was just sort of, [01:09:06] I don't know, I just I just always was and you know whether or not I knew how to verbalize that, or whether or not I even knew that like, I necessarily had sexual feelings towards people, I just, I don't know, it was just always there somehow. I grew up, I grew up in a really a really, really Christian environment. And when I when I actually did start to, to hear like, I don't know, people would always be saying, you know, it's just like, so evil, you know, you hear about these evil fact somewhere. And I had money and like I felt really excited about I was like, wow, you know, there are people out there that like feel the same thing that I do. But at the same time, it was presented in a way that like it was it was really a bad thing. And I should be so ashamed of it. And it took me a long time to be able to sort of break from that idea. And actually, part of part of being able to do that was I had to, I had to sort of changed my whole belief system, I had to actually out of Christianity for a while to be able to have a an unbiased perspective on myself and just my own values. And I don't know, that was that was really a very interesting time, that sort of happened a little bit starting in ninth grade. And I was spending a lot of time like, just by myself, I changed to public school. And I didn't really have a big circle of friends to, to sort of, I don't know, like when you change, that when you totally change the people that you're hanging out with you can you can almost change like everything that you believe you can change who you are a lot a lot more easily than you can otherwise. And a lot of the time that that I was that I was hanging up on myself, I was watching Public Television. And they have a lot of not necessarily, it shows that that are I don't know that has like a gay agenda or anything. But that it [01:10:59] does not like a [01:11:01] homophobic bias [01:11:02] to anything that I saw on PBS. And if anything, they're actually work some Simpsons, I don't remember what they were called anymore. But they were actually like gay news shows. And that just totally blew me away. I mean, being able to see something like that it just knowingly. You know, it's, it's okay to be gay. And it's not an evil thing. And you're not going to be damned to hell, if you, you know, if you are gay, and it has like, some really cool, interesting debate shows about just religion and homosexuality and talking about what's it called dignity. And I think that's what it's called, like a group within the Catholic Church. And just being just being exposed to that really helped me to feel more comfortable with myself. [01:11:50] And I think that sort of made it possible for me to like, [01:11:53] start talking openly with one of my friends about that. [01:11:57] One thing he said [01:11:58] was really interesting. And I was taking German classes at a community college up in Dallas for a while. And I was taking all the classes for the same professor, she was actually from Germany, she was really cool. [01:12:10] But we were talking about [01:12:14] just being gay. It just came up in class one day. And she was, she was just totally blown away by like, the whole concept of coming out. And she was telling us, like, one year, a National Coming Out Day, some guy was over at dinner. And he just like, felt it was necessary to tell her that she was that he was [01:12:33] gay. And she was, she didn't care. [01:12:35] It was no big deal at all. But just like the whole phenomena of that she couldn't understand it. She was like, [01:12:42] I'm straight, you know? [01:12:45] Whatever. [01:12:47] It was, I don't know, it was just really cool. Like, [01:12:53] I don't know, I just think that's such a like, healthy, healthy thing. I think it would be so cool. It's like, it was no big deal. It's like nobody ever had had to come out because nobody had to, like actively like, [01:13:03] say, you know, [01:13:04] I'm gay, you know, or like, make it make like a big emotional or deal out of it. You know? I guess a lot of people say I always knew I've never had a name for it. I can recall being at school account and how old I was, I guess, young teens. And some guy said to him, I said, What does that mean? He said something like, the guy who likes knocking out the guys, and I should be shot? Well, I didn't agree with what he said about being shot. But I certainly knew that that was what I was that there was a name for it. Even though, you know, I've not acted on it, I just knew that I was attracted to men and women. So till some years later, when I was 1990, in 1979. [01:14:01] I [01:14:02] guess I decided to stop living a life that was a lie, and you know, take the plunge and try and get in touch with some, you know, the guy counselling service. I thought you know that, that was one way of sort of getting to know somebody, I just thought the gay community was some, you know, all contained within one pub, or something, or one meeting Tyson that those, you know, just a few sleazy people. And that would be that after being introduced to the gay community, it was a real pleasant surprise. And immediately, like, I just went out on to Oxford Street and was introduced to a whole new world, I was like, This is what I've been missing out on, even at the tender age of 19. I felt like, you know, this is where I belong, with an interesting feeling. [01:15:00] Happy feeling. And [01:15:04] all I can describe it as is a feeling of belonging. But yeah, this is the sort of world out there that wasn't really, you know, nine about how the majority of people that was that I was part of it, so that I felt part of a larger community. And that, immediately, I just sort of wanted to tell everybody that I was gay, but it was always appropriate. I guess I just tell those people who, for me, it was meaningful. Like my sister's not Mom, I didn't feel any need to, I didn't have that sort of relationship with her, I felt the need to do that. And still happen. And that's my problem. She never ask any questions, so that dicks really wants to know. And from then on, it's been something I disclose on me when I really need to. But I think people that walk around generally saying, you know what, that I've had sexual, sexual, or whatever, if somebody asks, or somebody is interested in that problem. And all I know is that, at that time, at that sort of coming out time, I remember it really well. I remember [01:16:29] it being [01:16:30] one of the happiest times in my life, the feeling of freedom, and of, you know, finding who I was, I suppose, or a lot about myself, there was a lot more growth and development and education that came after that. But it was really me realizing that you don't have to lead the rest of your life, you know, in some sort of way, it doesn't feel really comfortable, what doesn't fit you [01:17:00] really isn't true. [01:17:02] I realized that I was gay from, I guess a fairly early age compared to [01:17:08] what I've spoken to a lot of other people [01:17:11] that I realized that maybe I wasn't really started, was about the age of 12, when I began to notice my own body and also other people's it wasn't necessarily men or women, it was both. And then there was a phase where I guess I could have considered myself bisexual. And that was, I guess, that lasted for about a year or two, maybe the age of 1314. There was nothing that directly influenced me. [01:17:46] But as I grew older, [01:17:47] the attraction to women, I think just became less and the tension for men became stronger. And to the extent where eventually I just no longer looked at women, this was a little bit of a shock to me at first, I guess. But it was something that I just assumed would come back. And it never did for me. So I guess I'm still waiting. I have a lot of female friends. And I still get along with women a lot. And except probably get along with him, his friends, a lot better than a lot of my male friends. But in terms of the physical attraction, that isn't any other than me being able to notice a woman is saying, she's beautiful, she's very pretty, or she's really ordinary, I can definitely comment on the state of the looks, but without me thinking that there was any sort of sexual attraction there. Whereas with a male body, I guess I can look at a male and think, yes, he's the surface that but there's also the element of whether or not I would be sexually attracted to him. So I grew up knowing that I was attracted to men. But I also grew up in an environment where I found myself around a lot of homophobic people. My parents was certainly not tolerant of gay people. And I guess, being based in the theater as I wanted to be growing up as somebody learning, singing and dancing, my parents were particularly paranoid that I would be mixing with a lot of gay people, and then somehow they would try and convert me. And or approached me or molest me or whatever they thought that was going to do. Not if whichever happens, even though I was surrounded by a lot of gay people, I didn't actually find any of them attractive. They're all a lot older than me. I was only 15 or 16 at the time. And so it was definitely around gaming, but there was no threat. There was no try and try and a mere anything like that. And at the same time, I'm on my behalf, I didn't feel the need to approach them, or to come out with my own sexuality. So it was something that I suppressed for a long time. That was growing up in the country. And then when I left school, I went to university for four years, and I moved to Brisbane, which is a smaller city in Australia, but it's still, I think it's over a million intensive its population. And wasn't until I was 20 years old, as I finally began two things, it's not so much that there was a need for me to come out. But that I get that one to define somebody who I could have a boyfriend and have that sort of intimacy with, it wasn't the sexual urges that I was looking to satisfy, but an emotional bonding, I guess, that I wanted to have with somebody. So it wasn't until almost until I was 21, that I had my first sexual experience, which also happened to be with the person that was my first boyfriend. And so that relationship lasted a year, and I was always quite I get something that's always I've been proud of is that my first sexual experience was in a loving relationship with somebody that I had been friends with for a long time. And then was in a relationship for for about 12 months. [01:21:34] I realized I was gay, probably there. [01:21:38] even seeing maybe [01:21:40] a guy I'm not a nice he is rubbish, right? Or not. He said, I have a slight 3ds my place in the bottle as you do. And he catches a drink Verizon, daily stories. And [01:21:53] I asked her [01:21:54] if even saw that big guy [01:21:58] that he has made rested? Yeah. So. And he said, Have you ever heard of the sexual fantasies back on? Yep. [01:22:09] And then it hurts. [01:22:12] I wouldn't want to tell you that. She's not telling you. He was really yeah. And then he said, Well, to be perfectly honest with you, on the side. And I was quite shocked by that, because he was the last person I've expect to understand. [01:22:28] And then. [01:22:30] And so we kept on talking and we did it together. And then the next morning, I felt so bad. I thought we needed to get into better with Amanda. [01:22:46] So [01:22:48] I didn't talk to her for that bit too much after that. And I was [01:22:52] a complete shock. [01:22:56] Scary is great. For the Christian. Hello, my friends were there with that, and always along with a cigarette in there. And then a former man, and there was a token, and it just ended up being a sexual fight with that bishop. In one day, one night, we got together. And this parent Guardian is longer because given the friendship because of what happened. And we were just using each other for six really, in a bad way spread by about because it was the wrong time, the wrong price. That didn't come at this stage and either take stops. And then I came back to my friends probably about two months after that happened in a trauma base for cancer. And I was so scared because I didn't know anybody gay, God afraid. And I told her and she said to me, the best return of ever headlights are lucky just the way are gay, straight, whatever. Did you still like, it doesn't matter what you are in the mode the show so good, because I had so much support and coming up to the fifth person was a habit. But after that they were braised in the whole time I came out I made so many more friends. Because 30 more people show me differently because I was more open and honest with you there for that line will carry up because I could tell something was wrong. And I mean, if it had been problems, in fact, I had to sleep in the inner have live had one problem with all the bandwidth mechanics mom. She's I kinda, she's really good. She doesn't understand it completely. But she knows that man, I can't change. [01:24:51] I will never be any other way. Now. [01:24:53] When I first was on the set 13 [01:24:56] I went through fictional states, like, rather than college high school, it was like, [01:25:02] okay, like if you gave, you know, you got the best. [01:25:06] But I completed it from others. And I tried to ignore it myself. And I get to a stage where it's pretty easy and stuff like that. And then like go fell off me and stuff. And I keep saying no and even started getting like, really pushy, you know, why are you doing it? Are you offended with something, it's like, Oh, my, my life was a bit tougher, the players were the same. And they were like forehead, you know, really nice tix and everything. And I hung out in the crowd. And I don't have a girlfriend, and I would like to three years without having girlfriend today rather than thinking you know what's up here, and we fight the friends that have for you. And like, this is really not many different biases, you know, you know, it's true. And stuff to hurt us a little, you know, maybe you forgot the girl, or then maybe I'll change or maybe, maybe my feeling can be heading more something like that, because I never actually where I ended up that girl. And I actually got to the point where I was quite content. And I am the time where this girl is like this guy had a real crush on and like, I'm really good friends with some of the time. And like my girlfriend was like, you know, why do you think so much time with money so much time with me? I want to do is come in and try not to crack? Because I'd want to know, what do you say what did you know? Growing up, you were working out perfectly good with someone forever, even if it's not realistic. But I really had in like high school and coming to pa was rather fussy cuz like, Okay, I will go in the training room for the thing. And I have the heat fan are getting changed. I was like, yeah, this is pretty cool. But yeah, and it's like, once again, when people start getting really fishy. [01:27:10] And [01:27:13] it was like wanting to, like, obviously really homophobic. And like, one person at a school who was openly gay, was on either one, and picked them constantly. And into a family classified excuse class in one detention for a week or anything like that. It was just another term. For [01:27:38] like, after year, [01:27:41] we had and I was added to that tower. And then every couple of weeks ago to tower and I just couldn't do it. And then finally, when it got to the stage where I was going up against the tower, two weeks the Bake Off, didn't believe me at all. And when I came out, right, it seems simple. And pretty hard from their own conceit and really nasty. And she went through total my family and everything. And they didn't take it well. I'm sure the family came in my house. And they came to actually try and kill me. I was an only child, and only boy, and the oldest in my family of all the other cousins and so on. And was really close to my mom. And I guess you know, I was always a bit odd. I always, I guess a little bit of feminist or people just didn't quite know what was going on. And you know, I didn't like hanging out with guys very often playing sports, all that stuff. So it's a long how long story in the sense that I ended up being separated from my mom, she became ill and my father ended up looking after me for a short while and that didn't work out. So I was alone for a little while. And I was about I don't know about 10 through 12 but fending for myself. And then I moved in with the next door neighbor. nice lady, I guess she was about 50 at the time, she was also single mother and had an older son who was older than me, he's about 25. And you know, around the age of 10, you start realizing what you like can, but you're attracted to and it's a difficult time for me anyway being separated from my mom. And I just not necessarily took on her persona, but I have it I guess I ended up backing more feminine and like using her, whatever was left of her hair products and some of her clothes and that kind of thing is that added to compensate for the fact that she was done or I'm not sure if it was bad, or if it was for me to come to terms with myself. And eventually, some guy friends that I had, when I was growing up common experience for most guys, you know, fool around when you're younger, seeing if, you know, you both have the same products and how they work and, and for me, I really enjoyed it. So, you know, I remained quite unique and I, you know, well dressed and I had dyed my hair all the time and you know, did weird stuff with myself and and at a point in time came when my stepmom was actually quite embarrassed by me. And I knew that she was not, you know, very open to homosexuals either. So it's a different, difficult place for me to be in. And eventually, one day I just, I guess when I was 15, I came out and said, Yes, I am. I am gay. And I don't want you to have to deal with this. So I'm going to move out. So I did, I moved out and which is probably a good idea for our relationship with me and my stepmom. But also was quite bad in the sense that I did a lot of things that I probably shouldn't have. I assumed that when I was living on my own, that I could just go and do what I please when I want so I you know was getting into gay bars, quite young under age, haven't had a drink way too much. And smoke can do all those horrible things way too early. And you know, I frequent a bath houses I actually as soon as it moves out, I put an ad in the paper in the local, I guess it'd be like The Village Voice type of thing want to have and lie about my age, of course. But that's why I took on my first real experiences with the gay men. quite traumatic, because a lot of them were older. And you know, they saw me as a real treat and it was young and I was you know, I guess cute at the time. And cellulosic advantaged me and so and so forth. But so from at all I think I've grown and still get and moved to Vancouver. And I'm best friends with my step mom. Now she's, you know, she asked a few questions every once in a while. And I'm very blunt with her and I tell her exactly, probably what she doesn't want to hear and she won't ask any more questions for about another six months but she's curious and she's very supportive.

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