[name withheld 1] - Snapshot 2000
This page features computer generated text of the source audio - it is not a transcript. The Artificial Intelligence Text is provided to help users when searching for keywords or phrases. The text has not been manually checked for accuracy against the original audio and will contain many errors. If you would like to help create a transcript, please volunteer to listen to the audio and correct the AI Text - get in contact for more details.
[00:00:00] This program is brought to you by pride in zero.com. [00:00:05] Well, I guess I first realized [00:00:06] I was gay when it was about 14, [00:00:09] when you first get your sexual [00:00:13] development or something, and I realized that I was fantasizing about men rather than girls, I felt very confused about that, because well, it made me feel a bit of an outcast in high school and all this stuff, because all my mates were getting the girlfriends and, and I try to go along as well, because they were actually quite a number of girls that, that were attracted to me and approached me to approaches. But I was, you know, sort of fended it off or kept it away. So for the first, I guess, four to five years, I was convinced it was just a phase in puberty, and would pass as I grow older. But when I grew older, and like 1819, I realized it wasn't an going to be going to pass. And I still haven't told anybody and I wasn't even willing to accept it for myself. So I still had this big secret, I remember I was thought carried is this really big secret with me that nobody knew, and not even my parents or anybody. And, and that actually might be more of an outcast, rather than [00:01:22] being gay, I guess, is because [00:01:25] I became a bit secretive and bit evasive. And I didn't feel like I really was part of a group of friends, because because of this big secret, and that continued until was like 2425, when I first came out, and all the time to 14 and 24, I never ever had either a girlfriend or boyfriend never had sex, either. I didn't dare because it took me that long to, to get to terms with myself. And I even you [00:01:58] know, I, I was living in Holland, [00:02:01] when I was 14, in a small town south of the country, about 100 kilometers south of Amsterdam. And it was a very protected, protected family, I guess. We'd be been living abroad quite extensively. Before that, I'd seen quite a bit of the world. And in that sense, I was well developed or, or had all round view of life. But I guess my, my background is a bit conservative. And I felt very much like I had to live up to the expectations of my parents, my father is a very successful businessman in the Netherlands. And he was, you know, he cheated a lot was a [00:02:47] known figure in Holland. [00:02:50] And I felt I had to equal that at least, and be engaged in and fit in that picture at all. So I wasn't happy with that. And then when I was 18, no, I was 19. I went to America, to call it and went to college in Massachusetts for a year. And then I came back to Holland, when it was 20. And went to business school in Holland, went through that, and that was very conservative, very much like the the Ivy League kind of business call it 14th century castle and stuff. And appeared to be a lot of homosexuality on the campus as well there. Because it would like very closed environments, but a lot of a lot of men. And, but it was an absolute taboo. So that sort of reinforced my my own feelings about homosexuality and, [00:03:46] and confirmed [00:03:47] that it was it was something very bad, and something had to be very secret about. So I went through the business school for three years and graduated, and went back to the states and had my first job in New York. And I live in New York in Manhattan for two years. And again, you know, was a very, very accessible gay environment. And I could have easily started experimenting and finding things out. But as I was working for the conflict, which again, was a very sort of conservative environment. And I didn't dare to do anything. And actually what I what happens, I got him with his girl in New York, a Dutch girl that I met, and he fell in love with me. And I really loved her for being a mate. And we got along very well. So 40 out for the outside world, we were a couple. And we show up at all the parties that that we got invited to through the conflict, and with the with all the diplomatic corps and all that stuff. And we were like, the perfect couple, we were we were very good friends. And we had very, you know, very common interests. And she was absolutely charming and very entertaining to all the people that I had to entertain in that job. And so we were like, really, really, the perfect couple. And then I remember, I felt like, oh God, if only I was I was straight, I wouldn't found my perfect match, I would marry this girl. But then one point he and she wanted more, she wanted sex. And that's that was actually the point where I was probably the first told that I can't get you what you're looking forward. And we have to, we have to stop this because I can't make you happy. I can't, I can't. [00:05:30] I can't be the person that you deserve. [00:05:33] And we did have sex once. And it was awful. It was absolutely awful. Because she was taking all the initiative, and I just let it happen. Because Well, I mean, I thought she deserved it basically. And, and I was very confused as well. And after that, I cried and cried and cried. Because that I guess was the point where I realized that I was gay and was not going to change. I went home to Holland, and I had Christmas with my parents. And then we had New Year's party. And I remember I was dancing with my sister at that party. And I was sort of saying things like, Well, you know, this is not really the me that I am or something like that something very cryptic. And my sense of it. But rain, I know already. You don't have to tell me. But I never I never, I never used the word homosexual at the homosexual or gay or anything. I just, I was very, very cryptic at the time. Then, when I flew back to to New York, I decided I was coming, I had to come out. So I called my parents from New York. And I spoke with my mother on the phone. And that's when I told her. And she she said, Well, you know, I guess so much. And Mario and my sister. She had, she talked, she told what, what, what I talked to her about while dancing ideas. And, but she was actually very accepting. And she was just very, very worried. As I was coming back, she said, Well, you know, in New York, and you're in that environment, where it's all very okay and very, very, gives you any problems. But when you come back to and then work, when you come back to Holland, you'll find a very different environment as he was very, very Ward worried, that would actually, you know, harm my career perspective. And, as you would expect from from parents like is, and she was very protective, really, she she was she felt very worried for me. But also very, very disappointed again, in a way because on the air of the family, and I need to keep the family name and all that stuff. And I wasn't going to do that. And what makes it worth it later, my brother is homosexual as well. So I've got one sister, one brother, and, and he's seven years younger than I am. So he's 27. And he only came out last year during the Gay Games in Amsterdam, although everybody knew he was gay, but he had even a worse record. And I had because I grabbed the only opportunity to come out away from it. Because in his few there was no even one gay person in the family too much, let alone two gay person. And he hated me for being gay because it reminded him of being gay. And second, because I took away the only opportunity he saw to come out in our family. But now he's changing rapidly. And we were the best of friends and we feel very close to each other again, we will sell clothes, I guess. I mean, we never, we never felt there was never never like a break in our in our in our brotherly relationship. But it was it's definitely more open now and more close, in the sense that we can freely talk about things that were to do before. And he's become so much more at ease and more mature. And and he's getting the same experience is that there's really nobody that that that will drop you for being gay or like you left. And if if they would, then they probably weren't your friends in the first place. I was having dinner with this girl with a girlfriend one, one evening, and I told her about my being gay. And she was completely shocked. But she was more shocked by the fact that I had kept a secret for 10 years and hadn't done anything with it. [00:09:38] And I remember it was in with an Indian [00:09:41] venture event them and we strolled home. And I sort of froze through the gate district. You know, I guess unconsciously. I wasn't I mean, I knew what it was doing. But I wasn't sure what I was planning or what, what I was doing. And anyway, I told about this guy, Katerina told her with a gay boss, but I knew all that, but I just hadn't been in any any I didn't there. And then at one point, she was just like, okay, right. But this has got to stop. And she just literally grabbed me by the arm leg grabbed me in the neck, and just pulled me into one of the bonds. And I was completely shocked. I was like, Oh my god, I can't be seen and I can't come and go in. And it was it was, but it was wonderful, really. And she was a very nice place. Luckily, it was one of the best, and a very mixed place. Very happy and upbeat place. And I had a wonderful time. And that sort of pushed me over the brink. And I was I was basically Okay, I thought of going out and meeting boys and my first boyfriend and who was who was with it was a bomb. It was a completely wrong guy, the first guy that that approached me and in one of the spots with a remark that that sort of triggers, triggers my thinking is he had a similar background because he, if I just be it was the opening line, he invited me for a round of golf The next day, and it's like, oh, he said, He's probably from the same background as I am. But he was I forgot he was like 1212 or 13 years old. And I was and he was completely bombed. He lived off me for a year and completely exploited me. But I guess it was good for me to to to to go through that because it told me it taught me a lot as well. And then soon after that, I met more guys and got got you know, Matt had more boyfriends. I guess what happened is that I moved in, I moved from being a single unexperienced rookie. As far as a sexuality goes straight into having relationships with men. And I missed the whole episode of, of evaluations and of puberty, sexual purity, and Well, basically living it off and stuff like that. So that came later when I when I met my current boyfriend with whom I've been living now for almost eight years. And in the beginning, it was a very, very monogamous relationship. Because I wanted it that way. I wanted, I wanted the perfect answer to a straight couple, like successful young yuppies married and living in a beautiful house and and for them and, and all that. And, you know, I want to I want to copy the life of my parents, I guess, with this guy, but then actually discovered I needed to I needed I needed to catch up everything I needed. So I did that later. And we both did. I mean, it was it's a very open relationship. And we, we agree with that completely, both of us. It was the first time I reached out and actually met a guy with the intention of having sex with him, which was, which was very strange and exciting and, and exciting as well. At the same time, it was like completely nervous. And we met on the street and went into a bar. And remember that the cloak lady was a psychic. And she's like, Oh, I feel good vibes here. And it was all very good signs and everything, you know, I don't even those kinds of things. And it really clicked, I think he was working for some French cognac firm in New York. And we thought to go home to my place. And I think what we did is just cuddled and touch it and stroke a bit, which was already all the way for me because I never, I never touched him. And I never, I never dared to look at him in naked. And remember, we're naked, that this is for sure. And I immediately invited him into my life through a concert, which is going on that next day or two days off of it. And I know you have to come along with me. And you know, for me, he was that he was my boyfriend now. [00:13:58] And he says For sure. [00:14:01] I think I gave him my number he I don't think he gave my number. He gave his number to me. And of course he never called. And I couldn't reach him and I was devastated for four weeks. I was like, I hope so. I don't know, let down it's like this is this is this is this was this was supposed to be my dream come true. And and, and, but I felt I think I felt I felt very devastated about his just standing me up. But I think I felt I also felt good about having done this. And I didn't feel ashamed. I didn't feel any negative feelings about that. I I can't recall now I don't think so. I think the first time I had six, real sex was with this guy I met at the bar with my first boyfriend. And there's an older guy. And I think I think the first night when we met the Papi home when we kiss in the car, and we fumbled a bit, I can't remember how it was how I felt it wasn't it wasn't great. I mean, obviously, I had to learn everything. And it must have been great then, for me, but I've learned so much ever since I've grown so much. I'm completely different person now. And I can't really relate to that person anymore. That was eight or nine years ago, 10 years ago. And if anything, it was a such a relief to come out. It was like this huge weight fell off me and I could finally start being myself and getting to know myself and and and grow and learn and be feel confident and become confident I wasn't this wasn't disable shadow of myself anymore. It was me. I didn't have any secrets anymore. I really didn't have any secrets. And and I and that actually made me a complete different person and being very extrovert and very open about what I felt and how I felt and, and what I thought and, and what happened to me and you know, very open to other people and that attracted a lot of people to and I completely change from from being rather timid and shy and and you're the guy who gets six laughed at the gym lessons at high school and to a very open friendly extrovert person with a lot of friends. very entertaining. And, yeah, person that a lot of people, like I think coming out is something so personal, it's something that you have to come from within yourself. I'm not, I'm not out there on the Derrick screamed, everybody come out and throw yourself and I just, you know, for me, it's been one of the best things in my life. And I'm so happy I'm gay because being gay and make me a person who is in touch with themselves and, and still stands on the on the ground with both feet. But you know, if I hadn't been gay, I probably would have just lead my life very unconsciously. You never know what's going to happen. I mean, you can't you can't talk about what is but I feel that it would have taken me at these much much longer to, to start discovering myself and and finding out who I really am. And being gay participation was means that you have to go through this episode where you have to get to terms with yourself and have to have a very sharp look at yourself. And for me, that makes a person so much more interesting somebody who is who's actually taken time to reflect and think about himself and what you want out of life and how you want it and in what way you want it and you know who you really are what, what makes you and I find that with a lot of gay men [00:18:00] that that's what is [00:18:03] common is that you all have to go through this phase of coming out which is very traumatic and very scary and and can be very unsettling because you're turning your whole life upside down. At least it was for me. And I think nowadays because I noticed that gay men in the bars and that are open and then so much younger than than I was. I mean, they're like, I mean gate I mean I see gay people here in Amsterdam which of course is a very gay city when like 14 and and they're openly gay and they're openly gay in high school and all that stuff. And they don't it doesn't seem to be a problem at all. But for me it's been it's been very different and for me it was very very difficult to come to terms with it but once I did it completely changed my life and I've noticed so much good come to me after I could be completely myself and my life is become so much better and I you know all the things I was afraid for the role false the role the role, concoctions that would you say or without the role fit these things in my mind things that I've made up which is them of course from from I guess from from the way I was brought up, but they're not they're not real. Nothing to be really afraid of
This page features computer generated text of the source audio - it is not a transcript. The Artificial Intelligence Text is provided to help users when searching for keywords or phrases. The text has not been manually checked for accuracy against the original audio and will contain many errors.