Snapshot 2000 - coming out stories

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[00:00:00] This program [00:00:00] is brought to you by pride in [00:00:05] I've always known I've been gay. I've always been in some sort of denial about it thinking that it was wrong [00:00:12] all the way [00:00:13] through college officially, I was always picked on and people continually call me imposter and so forth. And it's something is not a nice experience, but you really got no choice about it. And I suppose I just kept denying it whenever anyone told me that. And I think that was kind of my way of denying that myself. [00:00:34] Basically, I'm not even 1213. During goal, I had girlfriends, I never sleep with them. I only had girlfriends from because of the festival thing to do. [00:00:46] And then I left college. And at the age of 19, I went off to politic and Oakland, and had a chance to account for this thing suddenly get me down. Because I was feeling really low your head, no one no one knew about me. [00:01:02] In one night, [00:01:05] council to kill me, perhaps you should start relying on people listen to know what happened. So I rang my best friend. And we had a long talk, I ended up in tears on the phone might hold on, I've got something big to tell you. [00:01:19] And I cannot have [00:01:21] and he was a bit shocked. But he was totally cool about it. He said slow car. I don't agree with it. But because you're my friend of that value, and he's give you as much support as what you need. And that was really good. [00:01:35] I had him a sounding board, Elena basically talked to him about any issues I had, I still had this need to meet someone of his companionship thing. And so I started originally by placing an ad, and one of the often game magazines and I've got a few replies back with quite difficult for me because I couldn't give them my home address. In case my parents down to us to fame was at the time, [00:02:03] I started making people instead of making all sorts of weird and wonderful excuses to wild going out with time of the night and why I had to buy the car and so forth. [00:02:12] And then one day, [00:02:14] I thought I had enough of this, I need to let my parents know what's going on with me. And I think was about 2122 when I came out to them, I threw a liter. The main reason for that was because I had so much I wanted to say. And I knew that if I told my parents face to face, our end up in tears, and I would not be able to get across what I wanted to tell them. So I went to work one day, and with the help of my friend had told the year. So before I drafted a letter up and put down all my ideas and everything, all my life, I was brought up as gay people, very bad people you don't want to be around them. don't associate with and that really made it hard for me. The fact I was quite positive out there to be thrown out of home. I remember one night especially during the news. They did a piece on the Sydney Mardi Gras. And my father did a comment and passing I think they should all be sort they don't deserve to live. And that was not the thing you want to hear, especially from someone who's you really need to tell about you. [00:03:27] But quite naturally, I was very nervous. And I started to listen to my mother and I burst into tears. And she read it and she cried. And she said other when you tell your father [00:03:41] I wanted to to [00:03:43] and so I live to hell. [00:03:43] And she says me Lisa and I came a half an hour later, my father was in tears and we sit down we had a big talk about us. [00:03:53] And he's fine about it now. I think [00:03:58] a lot of people tend to have the views on two legs they meet [00:04:03] homosexual person that they actually realized that gay people are actually bad people, they just you and I you pass them on the street. And it's not until you actually know someone. So you can relate to and you can talk to that actually, cuz we ever seem to see on TV, other writing Queen expression, and the very careful flamboyant people. And it fishes my parents did not get a good view of the gay community. [00:04:32] I then promptly went out and started telling my friends, I was sure I would lose some friends. I had five or six very close friends. [00:04:40] I always made the issue out to be big myself. Because it was such a traumatic thing for me to do. But one by one is I told them, they all fit it was fine. I felt absolutely stupid, burst into tears and telling someone and giving them a hug. And I sort of looked at me and says, well, what's the big deal? [00:05:00] I think now when I tell people, I'm a lot more casual about it. And I sort of come to the realization that if they like you, they will like you regardless of your sexuality. And if see your friends, they will be there regardless. And I think [00:05:15] no matter who you come out to, [00:05:18] you just got to take that risk in a CD for you that will still be there for you. And for some reason, they don't i don't know if they really have that much to be afraid in the first place. [00:05:29] So my girlfriend was the first person I told cuz I probably say to the message to you, you're gonna tell her [00:05:37] to [00:05:39] nasty taxi for the you know, the table is a practical deck for the same for me just another nasty place. And she reacted really badly when she finally took a lot of convincing but I finally convinced this I believe in it. 10 really nasty. [00:05:56] My cousins. [00:05:58] They were [00:06:00] she told them in my run up to me like get watch. You know he's a fan. [00:06:07] And [00:06:09] then my family came to me [00:06:14] was next reaction was like my cousins, they can see some serious damage. [00:06:19] And I luckily was upon and like what my flatmate and my flatmates told me to pass by the swiftly. [00:06:28] A few weeks later, they came around again, and I were having a talk about alpha. [00:06:34] And it was more of a disbelief and for them. [00:06:39] I'd like some for years. But some of us like myself when I was telling my mother on the other hand, me being in any other time was like really upset. Because he has no time for grandchildren was like really staying up on stuff like this. And my father took it really well. Most of the students I [00:07:01] really had to face [00:07:07] didn't believe it, and two sips it away. [00:07:18] And I can pick up for that one cuz I had a lot of really bad time coming up. [00:07:27] It was like, [00:07:29] I didn't really she was lying to everyone into myself. And when I finally [00:07:37] came in, at the time, I didn't care what what reactions came out what people said, people would, would take me or anything like that, or I wanted to do is like free myself from the third and I felt like I was carrying. [00:07:53] So when I did it was just like a big way was taken off my shoulder and finally be made live in the fly. [00:08:02] Coming up to my family with another man who I think I've been at to myself satisfactorily then from early 20s. And I had, like my friend Michael, who I bumped into occasionally through friends, who was always a happy, confident, homosexual man. And I think he was a good pillar to have a good reference point to know that no matter how much life seems to change, or where other people went in other directions as in moving away from the bisexuality thing or becoming married and having kids, Michael was always there was a rock solid person who was happy to be guy with never going to be anything else, but that he was a political activist. And such [00:08:46] my friends could deal with the fact that [00:08:49] I said that I had an attraction to man, even though I didn't really live them out. [00:08:55] See no sex life, which is probably the only reason why I'm HIV negative now, sex life really, in my late 20s, early 30s. But at high moment, one time, about seven more years ago, seven years ago, maybe now, when I started to think that I was going to have to start including how I felt about other people sexually in my life, it was important for that to become an honest and active part of my life. And I was working through the kitchen, and home one day. And I just did my father at the kitchen table with my brother and my mother. And he said, and we had one of them at work and he was OK. [00:09:38] And then just one watt. And he said a queer. [00:09:44] And before I could stop myself with a bow dead, you've got one person that's okay. And walked out the front yard, another one at the front yard is [00:09:54] a little bit [00:09:56] louder and louder and louder, and I sort of collapse. [00:10:00] But that was it like, my father's been totally supportive. Ever since my mother had always been supportive. But it meant then that I could start dealing with the issue with all the rest of my family. And yeah, I've had nothing but support nothing but good results from interactions with people. So [00:10:21] since that time, when I contacted Michael again, and Michael was doing a radio show called career radio, I was able to then go and visit Michael go to the radio show and start to talk to other men and realize that [00:10:38] being gay, or being homosexual is a huge fear of things and you don't have to be a particular person behaving a certain way. And even though I thought it was relatively informed policy, it can be informed enough about the nature of the differences between people. So what I've got out of working now for the last six, he is on qualia, and we're talking with literally hundreds of different men and women is an appreciation that it's more okay for me to be me. And I try to encourage other people, no matter how early they are in the coming out process to just accept themselves and to not expect too much of themselves except that they are okay. [00:11:23] Mojave did [00:11:26] my mother have not told [00:11:29] one she you're paying [00:11:36] out a person would not understand it [00:11:41] would totally go [00:11:44] off about it [00:11:46] and complete the context. Again, why not that worries me but it [00:11:53] would hurt her feelings. [00:11:56] Although [00:11:57] at this stage [00:11:58] there is a person which is man if I ever moved in with him, I would come up to me mother, [00:12:04] irrespective what [00:12:06] irrespective what you would [00:12:08] say better. [00:12:12] I think he would [00:12:17] go completely hysterical. [00:12:22] Because [00:12:25] her background is very religious, and very no a no education whatsoever. She never went to school. And she just can't understand [00:12:37] anything outside her stereotypical [00:12:39] field. [00:12:42] Things go natural order to her, and which is wrong. [00:12:49] Makes me feel that I want to live my life the way I want to live my life, live my life, to conform to other people's ideas. [00:13:00] Because if it comes down to happiness, I've got to be happy first. I can't please, everyone else. And no one can please everyone else, because no one has ever managed to make people happy. And soon as you you conform to one set of standards don't change the standards, and I want you to do something else. [00:13:25] I went home to Holland, and I had Christmas with my parents. And then we had New Year's party. And I remember I was dancing with my sister at that party. And I was sort of saying things like, Well, you know, this is not really the me that I am or something like that some things are cryptic, and my sense of it. But rain, I know already. You don't have to tell me. I never I never, I never used the word homosexual as the homosexual or gay or anything. I just, I was very, very cryptic at a time. And then when I flew back to New York, I decided I was coming, I had to come out. So I called my parents [00:14:08] from New York, and I spoke with my mother on the phone. And that's when I told her. And she she said, Well, you know, I guess so much. And Mario and my sister. She had, she had talked, she told what what what I talked to her about while dancing ideas. And, but she was actually very accepting. And she was a very, very worried [00:14:34] as I was coming back, she said, Well, you know, in New York, and you're in that environment where it's all very okay and very, very, [00:14:42] gives you any problems. But when you come back to and then work when you come back to Holland, you'll find a very different environment. And she was very, very worried worried. And it would actually, you know, harm my career perspective. And as you would expect from from parents like is, and [00:14:59] as you will protected really she she was she felt very worried for me. [00:15:05] But also very, very disappointed again, in a way because on the air of the family, and I need to keep the family name and all that stuff. And I wasn't going to do that. [00:15:19] And what makes it worth it later, my brother is homosexual as well. So I've got one sister, one brother, and, and he's seven years younger than I am. So he's 27. And he only came out last year during the Gay Games in Amsterdam, although everybody knew he was gay, but he had even a worse struggle than I had. Because I grabbed the only opportunity to come out away from it. Because in his few there was no even one gay person in the family too much, let alone two gay person. And he hated me for being gay because it reminded him of being gay. And because I took away the only opportunity he saw to come out in our family. But now he's changing rapidly. And we were the best of friends. And we feel very close to each other again, we always felt close, I guess. I mean, we never, we never felt [00:16:18] there was never never like a break in our in our in our brotherly relationship. But it was it's definitely more open now and more close, in a sense that we can freely talk about things that were to move before. And he's become so much more at ease and more mature. And [00:16:36] and he's getting the same experience I am that there's really nobody that that will drop you for being gay or like you left? And if if they would, then they probably weren't your friends in the first place. [00:16:49] And that to my friends to my family. Now my parents are in the mid 70s [00:16:56] I believe that they would not type it all well. [00:17:00] kinda came into the man. [00:17:04] It would affect him emotionally. And I don't want to do that to them. I people say, you know, you should tell your parents know, that sort of thing. And I think I think every parents reaction is that they look at themselves and say, Well, you know, what, what the hell did I do? Where the hell did I get wrong, and I didn't get wrong, I didn't do anything wrong at all. It's just the physical makeup of me. And there's nothing I can do about it. There's nothing I can do about it. But I would feel recrimination and I want them to do that. At the same time, too. I think I'm a little bit frightened that I just might turn away. [00:17:38] And [00:17:38] I want that either. I'm an only child with the only family I have, I need the support, and I need the love. [00:17:45] Moving on from there, we can take a thing which I find extremely frustrating. [00:17:51] Because I'm into my late 40s I'm an old man, I don't feel it. I don't act up, I don't really look at either. [00:17:57] But [00:18:00] we find ourselves like [00:18:04] a [00:18:06] society that complained so loudly, loudly that being discriminated against I think we more discriminatory f7 any ethnic group at the BT awards. [00:18:18] I have yet to meet a main I've not really had a true homosexual or gay relationship. [00:18:25] I met a guy [00:18:27] about nine weeks ago now. [00:18:31] And [00:18:35] he had apartment I was living overseas at the time, who he was going to join at the end of the year. [00:18:41] We meet [00:18:42] we were attracted to each other. We couldn't play well together, we ended up having a sexual relationship which I thought I could control. But I couldn't [00:18:53] have a guy he was me at two very successful, extremely intelligent, charming with a everything I ever wanted in the name. [00:19:03] He never really talked about what he felt for me, but he kept coming [00:19:06] back and coming back. So I know he felt something. And then you [00:19:09] have I felt and that's the closest I think I've ever come to being in love with the main things that I felt the highs and the lows I have never felt before. [00:19:19] And I find that said that [00:19:22] I come to this point in my life where I've never really experienced turnoff. [00:19:28] I find it frustrating, [00:19:30] in [00:19:32] part, so I wanted someone to love and someone to love me. [00:19:37] happen. I mean, the guy gave me fake [00:19:39] self esteem that I had lost. [00:19:44] He made me feel worthwhile and might be realized that there are guys out there who are the type of person I want to find me attractive. So I guess one day my day will come [00:19:56] for my coming out? [00:19:58] Well, could I say it's quite difficult for me to speak grid about it. [00:20:06] And as much as I hadn't made any coming out towards my parents, for example, except [00:20:13] my sister who knows everything about me and while never seen a particular thing, that me [00:20:23] my parents didn't know anything about my homosexuality. That's my choice. [00:20:30] I know that the would have many difficulties to accept it. [00:20:36] I tried to see how they would react, you know, just [00:20:41] talking about it, from time to time, see [00:20:45] what the [00:20:46] point of view was about such a topic button. [00:20:52] Therefore is considered homosexuality as a disease. So [00:20:57] the time I hope we change their minds. At that time, it is life. So I haven't spoken to them. [00:21:07] I think I'd be compelled to do to do it. [00:21:12] My both my boyfriend [00:21:14] told everything to his parents. I've met them quite wonderful people. And I decided to to move in South France and the French Riviera, quite a few months with my boyfriend. So I think I'll be compelled to speak about my parents by that. [00:21:35] Either my thighs quite sure that my mother wouldn't even believed it. And even if I didn't say anything, she would believe just a friend. Even if I'm always telling that I'm always with him, in fact, so that when people don't want to understand I think they don't. [00:21:55] That's okay. For me. It's sometimes a little hard [00:21:59] to be able to speak about as [00:22:02] in as much as my very close friends or knows all about me. And [00:22:09] that's okay. [00:22:11] Because I've been able to, to [00:22:15] do my coming out with my friends. And I've been quite really happy to see that they accepted it quite well. [00:22:25] So I think I'm quite happy. [00:22:29] I'm quite lucky. [00:22:31] I wouldn't give any advice to anybody about coming out nothing. [00:22:38] No General, [00:22:41] general way to act in such a such a thing. [00:22:46] Where are people who can tell it to the parents, some [00:22:49] morons? Well, [00:22:52] depends on the situation, in which case, [00:22:58] I think it is [00:22:59] always interesting when you can speak about it to the people you love. But it is not possible when you've got all these friends to friends. A wonderful thing. That's my point. [00:23:13] When I came out, [00:23:15] it was like a huge Fight of the Night, I went to bed after tomorrow, [00:23:21] I had the best flight I'd ever had in the area was just, it was just such a relief. It was such a huge relief. It was like I didn't need to lie anymore, didn't have to lay it's such a double life, which I've been doing so many years. [00:23:40] Everyone that is gay [00:23:41] has a pretty good idea that they are but a lot of people are very apprehensive about it. Some people live in areas where it's not well accepted. If you're going to come out, make sure you come out with friends around you that you can really, really trust. [00:24:02] Take it slowly but [00:24:03] don't take it too slow. [00:24:06] Because once you come out, it was shit done it is ago. [00:24:11] I think it actually [00:24:13] needs to be honest yourself. And ask yourself, What are you [00:24:20] the [00:24:22] and if you prepare for the worst, like I came up to my family as well, couple years later, because I've been I've been I got a job now to travel a lot and I work in the United States and it helped a lot more to be really happy being who we are. So I decided to my family and everybody. And they actually turned out to be okay. I mean they had some we have some family problems when I tell them but I was really prepared to [00:24:54] to say hey, it's a knockin accept me. [00:24:58] That's okay, I still and so my thoughts. [00:25:02] And my thought about this for myself all the time anyway. So I know threats from them if they're not accepted. And some of my families are not very happy about it. But I didn't really care. You know, that's my life. Now look myself. I know me anything from them. Even if they emotionally not gonna support me, I actually say I'm pretend that [00:25:29] so [00:25:31] I think you just have to be [00:25:34] confident about yourself if you want to come out. If you're not really [00:25:39] happy, sad is not [00:25:42] my friend, especially Western friends seems to be less problem than they have been a Asian country where I come from Asia. So [00:25:54] making Harrison [00:25:58] I'm totally out two companies, my work and school whenever. And I actually came up to my class. They were kind of joking. And so yes, I am. And [00:26:13] and so them, actually. Okay, and actually, they're quite gay gay people there. I know there's a gay guy in there. And we thought of a joke. Like jokes jokes about K and, and I guess I am gay. I'm the first one that came out. And then I saw the other ones that didn't didn't. I know they are but I just said gay bars. Are you are to it? Yeah, they, they, they think I know as well. But they didn't want to tell anyone. [00:26:48] I ended up telling my brother says, [00:26:51] and I said to him, you know, I've killed the guy. And I don't know, I think I'm gay. [00:26:56] And now my brother who's the [00:26:58] oldest one, is it up? He's a real masculine man. [00:27:03] His black belt in karate is a box so you can sort of just imagine what sort of person hates is married? And he was all you have to tell mommy few don't tell mom are will. And that was the big subject. And I turned around said Mom, if he doesn't pay on them tell you Thank you. I don't care anymore. So after telling my mom, she was a [00:27:23] slut, screaming ahead of [00:27:26] I had to go to a priest to confess. Now that was the worst thing I could do. I ended up going to a priest telling him that I was gay. He said to me that I was going to go to hell [00:27:37] thing guy was not part [00:27:39] of our Greek Orthodox religion, and there must be something wrong with you for being attracted to the same sex. I've been replied to him and said God made me to be happy on this earth and if I'm happy [00:27:52] I think he also will be [00:27:54] happy I don't really care not that I follow religion much anymore. But I used to be a great some days church four days to be going to church every Sunday. [00:28:05] And I had mom sitting on the bed One screaming saying all the complaints that you're gay waited all go wrong as a mother isn't my fault. What are the relatives going to think? What are the neighbors gonna sing? How did I bring up my son in this world? holding hands with another male and kissing them? I don't think it works. I want him to get married. I want him to have children. And that was a big strong part in the Orthodox to get married. have children have a good job? Study do that. Now I've studied us done uni have done some painting. And Ella's got a good job. [00:28:44] That's still that wasn't [00:28:46] good enough for my mother because I didn't have a girlfriend and I wouldn't be having any she would be having any grandchildren. [00:28:54] Always Mara is a time and a friend of mine a friend of ours. One of my former wife [00:29:03] kind of got me started [00:29:06] dressing and how underwear and stuff. [00:29:10] And that's basically how I started and just woke up to I guess where I am today. [00:29:20] No longer robbery but [00:29:23] it's like I'm happier now on one [00:29:27] at first I wasn't really that testable. [00:29:31] And say shorter reacted [00:29:34] some reactive like [00:29:37] like so I know there's major time remarks and all kinds of stuff like that. But I just ignore them. And you said well that's where they feel that's where they feel [00:29:49] and most people nowadays cannot tell [00:29:54] me know our song it just have a sense for and just [00:30:00] know that there's something different about this person was nice people just treat me just like a lady. [00:30:08] In fact, [00:30:10] Lady [00:30:12] dressed as a male so [00:30:15] because I'm I'm a school bus driver. [00:30:19] And I will arrange to [00:30:22] work [00:30:23] every day. I work from my house. [00:30:27] And I finished taken [00:30:29] by not my kids on my route with my kids on so I've taken our trips as being old lady and I'll say anything. I just say no. Hey, if they think so lady driving the bus and enjoy each other and have lunch, you know, [00:30:48] kind of center on topic for share, go to show I do wear a hat, [00:30:53] work. [00:30:58] Race. [00:31:02] Don't try to correct anybody. [00:31:05] And the people now my co workers now I dress. [00:31:10] I've been up three, the last three Christmas parties. I'm dressed as the lady. [00:31:17] And I don't know why [00:31:19] Shama make smart remark something [00:31:23] that most except why was why is that I always thought was being you do what you want to do. [00:31:31] My wife [00:31:33] when I was married, at first, she accepted. And then she rejected. So I don't know exactly what story was there. [00:31:44] And as far as Russian, my family [00:31:48] my father has been deceased since 1970. [00:31:53] And my mother never did now, my sister. [00:31:58] She is she's now [00:32:02] my first thought is know that I dress, but as not really accepted it. I mean, she accepts the lifestyle. As far as me being [00:32:17] a female and appearance, but she doesn't really want me to dress in front for which I have not done file request. But she just tells me to be careful. And just have fun and be careful. That's [00:32:32] all we'll try try to break [00:32:36] it we usually when I go out on tourism, I'll transfer [00:32:45] calls or whatever. [00:32:47] We may meet some people, but [00:32:50] nothing really sure is [00:32:53] so far. [00:32:57] interest, which is called how rigorous on [00:33:03] Oh, I try to get sick off. But along [00:33:06] with [00:33:09] my brother who is a minister found out about it. He hasn't talked to me or had any relation with me whatsoever since 1984. That's 20 years of [00:33:24] deciding that was not worth being a brother to any longer. And my mother, also very religious left me [00:33:34] deciding that I had ruined her name and, and hidden all of this from her that I was unworthy. But my father stayed with me. And my father helped me on the on the sidelines without anybody knowing about it. And he was wonderful. But of course they both gone now. [00:33:55] All this time, of course, with four degrees. [00:34:00] Up to a PhD, I [00:34:04] knew I knew full well that there wasn't anything wrong with homosexuality, that it was just another orientation of life. The Good Lord made diversity and everything he created. So why should people be any different tonight, I got an intellectual and an emotional satisfaction to [00:34:24] my situation, although I was saddened by what I did to my wife and my children, fortunately stayed with me to my father didn't care. And I mean, he cared but I mean, he wasn't going to stop loving me. And neither were my children. But they went out as religious as the mother and the brother. And I think that is a testament to what happens with people who are really not truly religious, but into religiosity or Christian churchy entity, whatever you might want to call it. [00:34:56] But as a professor of psychology is, is clear in my mind that this absolutely nothing wrong with me. There never was. And the problem is really with society, [00:35:08] and decided not to tell anybody, I graduated high school, because I grew up in a very small town. And [00:35:16] it was it wasn't something I wanted everybody to know, right off the bat, I was too scared. When I graduated, [00:35:25] I told my, both my parents and [00:35:32] the parents are divorced. I told my dad and my stepmother first. And they were very, very accepting about it. And they [00:35:45] were a little concerned about me, and that I knew what I was doing. This is what I wanted. They weren't they didn't know too much about [00:35:57] anything about it. So they wanted to learn more about it. So which is really good, it made me feel a lot better. My mom, on the other hand, wasn't so well with it myself. That was absolutely fine, probably the best. And my mom had problems that just because she didn't want to seem to get hurt or [00:36:16] anybody to look at me differently as a mother. She's really done does in that case, but she is doing very well now with it. And I believe [00:36:27] she is getting a lot more comfortable. Day by day. And she's always there for me, no matter what. [00:36:35] what my problem is or what my question is, and she'd never turned her back on. Now, but as if it is a zoo for me. And my friends on the other hand, but we're a different story. You lose friends, again, friends, when you go to high school, no matter what. And I used to say just about everything that's about my life, and I didn't want anything to be a big secret, whoever's, and sometimes they just don't touch anymore. [00:37:05] I mean, generally, when it was a, it was a great time for me, and I never changed anything in my life, it's really changed [00:37:16] a lot a lot about what I learned about life and experiences and [00:37:21] just how important [00:37:24] it is. And I'm not trying to hold back anything before anybody because of anything. [00:37:31] They actually told my parents, that was a that was a real disaster. [00:37:37] Very, very religious. And I we still haven't like been able to completely resolve resolve this, they think they're going to go to hell, they really think. [00:37:49] I don't know that there's just a lot, we still have to work out on that. [00:37:54] But the situation that [00:37:55] I actually told my parents, it was it was in the middle of a fight that we were having about whether I could drive the car, I just got my driver's license. And we're talking about property. Like I basically said, I didn't respect their property. And I said, they didn't respect me in general. And it sort of, we started throwing out like specific details. And like I was trying to just sort of, like, do a top that thing like, Well, I didn't play out the shower this morning. Well, fine, you don't respect this, you don't respect that, and you don't respect my homosexuality. And like, it was just a really horrible, horrible way to do that. I wish I wish when i when i would have come out to them, that it would have been in a more [00:38:32] more calm, [00:38:34] a more calm setting, I wish that I would have had like a lot more. I wish I would have had better social skills, better communication skills. [00:38:42] The criminals nor did [00:38:44] they. [00:38:47] They acted like I hadn't said it and just sort of went on with the argument. And they never spoke about it again after that for quite a while. [00:38:56] The next the next I really heard me mention of it every now and if I had a friend over, you know, be like, Well, you know, who was that? with AC gay? The female you think you're gay? It was always, you know, do I seek a gay? They do. They had a really hard time. [00:39:15] accepting the fact that, you know, it's [00:39:16] not, it's not like a temporary thing or choice thing. [00:39:21] So yeah, I mean, if they, right now, they're actually making a really big effort to to be really accepted. And that's really cool. It's it makes [00:39:32] it makes it, it makes a big difference. To me, it means a lot to me, because I know how, [00:39:39] how rigid their belief system is, in a way. And the fact that they're sort of like stepping beyond that to me, [00:39:46] just like, [00:39:46] seeing through the dogma, to, to me as a person. That that really means a lot. It's really it's really special. [00:39:57] To my friends really worried that you don't know what for the reaction. I wasn't scared about lose friends or anything like that. I mean, you know, so what if I did, not a tragedy, but I guess I admit having men to confront, you know, in it something not very pleasant, right? You know, if they said something dreadful, or, you know, made some derogatory comments or something like that, so it really wasn't about the friendship. I mean, the valuable, of course, but not as valuable as my identity and my feeling good about myself. And really, I found that people either said all year, I thought so, or [00:40:42] there was not much reaction at all, or [00:40:46] don't recall, there's no reaction that is, I guess, significant enough for me to have a great memory off. [00:40:55] Positive, I can't give any really negative ones. [00:41:01] Generally, people, you know, if people are really interested, it's kind of, you know, you read the body language and the, you know, the I've made in the subject changes. [00:41:12] But never ever, [00:41:13] ever encountered any, [00:41:16] any form of [00:41:21] responses, I wouldn't call in a normal, [00:41:26] haven't felt any, haven't felt any sort of aggression or disappointment or anything like that. I know people do. I mean, other people do experience that have a great deal of problems with it. [00:41:41] I [00:41:43] generally found that, you know, most people have sort of quite happy that you know, that you are a bit more confident OBD feel, you know, you do appear a little bit more around happy. [00:41:57] A lot of people really, you know, deep down didn't know anyone I have some props for for you there. [00:42:03] I haven't actually come out to my parents officially. But this will happen around my 25th birthday. And [00:42:13] the fact that this new person was suddenly around all the time who hadn't been in my life before my parents became very suspicious. And although I thought my boyfriend was fairly straight acting, and I'm assuming [00:42:28] that my parents picked up the body language between us, which [00:42:33] I didn't really know that we were making such obvious sort of flirtations across the room, or whatever you would like to call it, but they saw a change in my mannerisms, or whatever. [00:42:44] And did confront me about it. [00:42:47] And I wasn't expecting the question at the time. So they didn't actually ask if I was gay. So they asked if my boyfriend was and me not being compared to the question. I just said, No, of course, not. MBC later, and I went away. Because I wasn't living with my parents. At the time I was living in Brisbane, I went back to university for three months. And then at the end of the year, it was Christmas. And I'd gone home again, expecting the question to be put towards me again. Because I was still seeing this person, he was still around all the time. And this time, I was prepared to the question. And I will just said, Yes, I am. Oh, yes, he is. And yes, I am as well. However, the question was never put to me again. And so not knowing where to rock the boat or what to do. I just ignored it. And I always and it says to Spain, that unspoken thing ever since. [00:43:44] So in my mind, I think the thing knows, but I think it's one thing to have it. [00:43:51] in your, in your mind is I think my son is gay. And another thing for your son to come to you and say yes, I am. It's not confirmed to them, although there had asked my sister [00:44:03] about her comments about it. [00:44:05] And she does know about me and I used to live with her and she's very open minded about things like that. And her any comment was she denied knowing. But she said to them, I don't know if he is or isn't Why [00:44:18] don't you ask him? But if he says yes, what would it [00:44:21] matter? And they one comment was they didn't care whether I was or not that they would be very concerned that somebody had made me that way. Again, sort of linking back to the comments in previous is that if I was around gay people, they would try and convert me and all that sort [00:44:39] of thing. So [00:44:42] there's always been this fear that movies misunderstanding that somehow if I ended up gay, it wasn't through my own development. [00:44:52] It was because of outside influences. [00:44:56] Which one is appropriate for arthritis which was recognized guys that are suffering and then and then I met a couple of guys who are with [00:45:06] friends of mine introduced me to another guy who he left where I left and one of the matter and [00:45:12] asked me how I met this guy is why hasn't he was where [00:45:16] am I said just friend? It was loud of a mate who is 11 years older than me, but there was never was never sexual first. And [00:45:26] so she asked me and played with for the last band that [00:45:33] I had not able to quantify it. And she said Is he guy? And I said yes. She asked me heart was [00:45:39] last night. [00:45:42] And the reason why I said no [00:45:43] was because [00:45:45] the timing was not right. I did not feel the time is right to come out to my guy. I had to wait for the right moment and she kept pestering me and history maker weeks and weeks [00:45:56] we argued over [00:45:58] bad fights over sky when compared with a longer total sky. And she can tell you the icon of the iconic and the thought maybe she will be okay. Cuz she likes my friends who she knew a guy. So I thought she can accept the interconnectivity in our culture I was in [00:46:19] Missy, within [00:46:22] probably I will kind of hard [00:46:24] to strike and finish company face with a tool for that for my and [00:46:31] besides getting talking again and the way we are that we have been for last four or five years visit the main site was living. [00:46:41] So it pays off. It does pay off in the long run. They do accept you beta percent, are you honest with them? miserable life. And I think the reason why she's her understanding now as because she knows I'm not going to get married and have kids. And they liked her life or that a lot of people's lives wreck of a lot of people's lives. So I think she's [00:47:03] in a way happy. [00:47:05] I know what I am that when I'm at 546. So you know, let's take a hard and musty Fallon met her she's remarried is awesome is the best in the business, this is my no problem at all. I can boast that they are watching a program on TV not even get disgusted. They see front of interesting and [00:47:31] understand maybe [00:47:33] not because [00:47:35] a class, the average guy posed was being feminine, just to get the woman's clothing and you know, [00:47:44] the idol six, and then not in the lot. And they do not do any of that. So they just see me as being an interest sexual guy. A guy who prefers means and I say every classes big guy because I'm not gay orientated [00:48:01] Hello faces. [00:48:03] That's very good for later because I am just normal guy. [00:48:06] What was really useful for me be born in 1955. And met them when I had an emerging interest in socializing, and music, and life in general outside of school. We had rock stars like David Bowie, and Mick Jagger, and making bisexuality, like a really acceptable, if not fashionable thing to be. So it's quite safe to say that it was great to be bisexual, and it was good to explore the sides of your sexuality. And I had friends of mine that my best friend from school was a man who came up to me once as having had sex with a mutual friend. And when David told me that one night, he showed me a record. And inside was a night from the mutual friend Michael, and said to David, thanks for the wonderful time we had together last night. My love, Michael. [00:49:02] And my because David just showed me the album, and he didn't say anything. I don't want to lose it. I knew everything that was entitled in this. And I just remember shaking, feeling [00:49:15] a huge reaction because all of a sudden, it wasn't just a topic anymore. It wasn't something that we all agreed with acceptable, but it was actually happening. [00:49:24] And years later, [00:49:27] and David and another girlfriend and had a big dinner party at their place. [00:49:33] David Hanson, because I was the last guest to leave. He said, We'd really like you to stay, you know, you should stay overnight. And so now you know, I've got work tomorrow, such but I'll be fine. And he said no, Belinda, and I would particularly like you to stay with us. [00:49:50] And I had that same shaky feeling because [00:49:54] it was so obvious that David had actually felt an attraction to me, my thought always felt for him. But I've never been able to actually put into words or interactive. And it was a great lot of fun. And it helped confirm to me that [00:50:09] even though like Linda being there, that was good fun. But who made what made the whole lot less effective. I was actually able to enjoy physically being in bed with and having sex with a man who was my best friend throughout high school and [00:50:23] who was still a good friend of mine. He's a nice light. The other side of the world the way I grew pot recently was through the internet. The wonder what is the internet catching up with David and broaching the subject for the first time in my 20 years. And that was described to him that for him. It had been something significant. It had been one product for him over the last 20 odd years even though he hadn't had sex with another man since that time.

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