Rangimoana Taylor profile

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[00:00:00] This program is brought to you by pride nz.com. [00:00:05] I am from naughty pro which is on the east coast. And that comes from my mother's side which is Molly Spanish. And on my father's side, it is Scottish [00:00:17] English. [00:00:20] I spent times both with non Marty speaking grandparents and with non English speaking grandparents. One of the things that I was told was that when my mom at grandparents saw me, they said, Oh, he's not very dark. And when my grandparents saw me, they said, Oh, he's not very dark. So it was I suppose both ways. I speak louder. Although I would probably speak more English today. I was I when I came to Wellington, I went to school, and then all my primary school there, later on Oh into Onslow college, which although looking back was a very good college. It wasn't the right one for me at the time. Later on, I went back to university. And I also studied in the United States, and also in the UK as well. I get the moment I been a pensioner as opposed working at the popper, as a guide and as a teacher. And I've been there often on for about 15 years. I spend at least two or three months of the year overseas, either teaching in Europe, England or the United States. But as a performer and as a director of theatre. I have actually worked in France, Spain, Papa, New Guinea, Romania, United Kingdom, the United States, and several other countries as well. As a performer, I was one of the first Well, I was the first storyteller from Australasia to actually be in the [00:02:33] national storytelling [00:02:37] Federation in the United States. And I was named as one of the 10 top storytellers in the world. One of the things on most of the things I like doing is I will only do a Molly stories. I will not do other people's stories, even though I know them, because I just don't like it when other people say, Oh, well, I've heard the story. So I will do it. I have just kept on two stories that I know how to do that have taken me around the world. And also theatre things like Shakespeare lying about Shakespeare, and that in teaching theatre studies and TV studies and film studies, at different universities, here and overseas, and later on this year, I will go back to Germany to do some work [00:03:31] in your early years as a child, but the language and the Maori culture was that it was a big thing for you. [00:03:39] It It was, it was it's always been part of me. One of the things is when my brothers and sisters when we were all born, our Marley mother wanted to give us all English names, because she was frightened about how how people pronounced our names. And, and because often teachers who name was a better one. But often, teachers would call her rename Alana or or anything like that. And she was very worried. We had another cousin called not better, not better. And people call her name up here. And so our mother said, I want to give them all English names. It was she got away with that with me, because she called me Gary and my father didn't want that name. But he sort of gave way to her on that. And later on with my brothers and sisters, he just was quite adamant that we were Maori, and that we would know English but that are modernized will be our heritage. I never liked the name, Gary. I've didn't it was never really made. And I was never called that when I was with Marty people was always either called tomato or our score Irani or one of those? So I understood how my mother felt. Now I understand maybe, but more. But I never appreciated, I never felt with that name. I really belonged anywhere. So when I got to about 28, I decided I would go back to a mighty name. And it was I talked with my family about it first. And all my father said to me, it's about time, because you have always been Molly, you have always felt like that. And when I said it would be Ramallah. He said, we thought that might be something like that, because you have chosen the male version of your mother's name. And that [00:06:00] since then, [00:06:04] there are still some people who are in their 80s and 90s, who still remember me as Gary and I never correct them on that. That's just how does my family? [00:06:15] Like I said, they sort of said, well, it's about time [00:06:17] you joined the rest of us. [00:06:19] So that was okay, most people in fact, I would say about at least 95% of the people I know now, even those who have known me have a child actually sort of say you, you don't look like a Gareth, you always look more like a new mana. schooling, I think, for me, I was what they call one of those intelligent children that could do better. And there were days when the teachers would just say, he's amazing, he will just go for a run and do it. And there were other days when nothing made sense to me. And so I just you know, and so that put teachers in a in a little put my parents and myself, I suppose in a rather curious position. But what it was, is I have dyslexia and I didn't know about dyslexia then. So there were things I could hear. And I would be able to just go [00:07:15] there like that. [00:07:16] But writing some things, I would get things mixed up. Not all things. But some things I would get mixed up. I remember, I didn't do well, at secondary school. I didn't like it, I often ran away I and that was I suppose not understanding what was happening within me. I was pretty good at sports. And people have often asked, you are a member ever coming out? And I don't, I don't know what happened. It just happened. It was. And it was not a big thing for me. I was pretty good at taking care of myself. And so nobody ever actually tease me or anything. I don't know what we're talking about the 60s. I don't know whether really people knew what that was about. But I think the first time I became aware of the gay thing was I don't even know whether I was aware of it. But in 1960 Elvis Presley went into the army, and there was a picture of him on a magazine. And all of us guys were looking at and we just finished. We just finished rugby, and we were sort of changed. And somebody said, look at this. This is Elvis man. It's great. Good. And they're almost gone health good. And I said you just want to kiss them don't Yeah, I never know. [00:08:41] And [00:08:43] nobody saw his love it. But I couldn't work out why anyone didn't want to. Later on I realized they all wanted to be him. And I wanted to just be with him. And that was a different thing. So I never, I mean, yeah, suppose at that time you you went with women, you live with women. And that was all right. But after a few months, it never worked for me. And my dad who was actually quite strong in his Christian faith, said that he was getting a but it wasn't very fair to women who you'd be very happy with for two or three months, and then you'd leave them and, and he knew the reason why. And he said, it's really breaking people up, this is not fair. And then the bastard, he actually quoted Shakespeare to me unto thine own self be true. Now something false to know, man or something, you know, that was from Polonius of speech. And I was studying at that time. And I thought for somebody who was very strong in his Christian beliefs, very strong, and what he thought was right, he'd actually come through that and said, you cannot go hurting other people like this, because what you're doing is you're damaging yourself. By that time, everyone knew my brothers and sisters, my my parents, my father being an ambassador, and that was overseas. And so my younger brothers and sisters went to, they lived overseas, too, but they went to boarding schools here. And so they stayed with me and my, my, my partners, especially one who has passed on now, his name was Russell Duncan, he was about about 10. Fifth now, he was probably 20 years older than me. And he, I think, was the person that in a way saved me. And I say that, because I was very angry, for whatever reasons, and I was, also [00:10:54] was erratic in my behavior and everything like that. And [00:11:00] so he sent me to a doctor, which, which was really cool. And the doctor said to me, who was a gay Doc, that he sort of said, Are you sure you're gay? And I went? Yeah, why is it? You're not just doing it because you think it could be fashionable? And I am, maybe I am, [00:11:19] you know. [00:11:22] And he asked me very good questions. And there had been one time when I did feel suicidal, I just sort of thought nothing is making sense to me, nothing's going away. I never associated it really with the sexual thing. I associate it with all sorts of other things. And I sort of used to say to people, I used to say, I'd wake up in the morning, say, God, get me out of this within 10 days, or I'm out of here. It always happened, I was out of it. But then my mate said to me, Russell said to me, You like films, don't you? And I said, Yeah, I do. And you said you like all those death scenes where people say wise things and they die. And it's beautiful. And I hadn't thought of it. But it was actually true. And he said to me, okay, let's give you the reality. you commit suicide, we're not going to find you for five days, your body's going to be bloated, there's going to be flies around you. And it's going to be and you will have shut yourself. [00:12:19] No, that's not that's not the way I want. Well, that got rid of that fantasy all together. [00:12:25] But I suppose part of the problem was, and having a little bit of as an adult, as, right from a baby up till about the age of almost five, I lived in 10 different homes with 10 different people 10. And I didn't realize this to I was in my 40s. But every time I was being shifted to another place, people would say we love you very much. But we're dying here. And I realized later on that every time somebody said they love me, they were going to leave me or I was going to be Lyft. And that made relationships difficult not for me. I don't consider it a relationship with anyone until I've been with them for at least three years. And then I might sort of say, yeah, this could work. And it was Russell. I stayed with him for nine years. And we left I suppose because I wanted to do other things. But we remained good friends right up till when he died. We would always see him when he went to India back to England to live. We saw him I always went to see him when he was going to England when he came home here. We went out together. We had a good time. We were not lovers, but we were there. His name was Russell Duncan, he was a headmaster of Wellington south. And people knew he was gay, and he was damn good looking. The next guy that I was worth was a guy called john Givens. And when I first met him, he had dark curly hair, green eyes, and with a voice that would just make you melt and less and less. So and we live together for about nearly 10 years. Then now that part in was quite amicable, but we had decided that this was time now. And I didn't really I mean, I had relationships, I suppose, but nothing that I would really connect to. Because I really started like living with myself, I really loved it. I love not having to wait for people I loved one where I wanted to go. And then dammit, one day I met Bill Logan. And I thought there was no way I thought this was going to work no way as well as a good man. But he's not the type. He's not there. And here we are 17 years [00:14:55] later still together. [00:14:58] What we learned was built was very important. He taught me when you other people had tried to teach me but I never understood it. When I came to be with Bill, I was in my 40. So things were just sort of on a turn for me and things were really gone really well. But bill questions, everything. And I thought the way he questioned was, how dare you question my thing about being Molly, you have not insulted me, but you have insulted the elite, you have insulted the worker. In fact, you have probably insulted the whole nation [00:15:36] by what you've said. [00:15:38] And then I realized what he was doing is actually making sure I believed that I wasn't just parroting he actually and one of the things that I have loved about him. I have become much more solid in my way of thinking, in my way of working with people. People get very surprised about bill because because I speak Marty and I understand French very well, because I lived in France for a while. I don't wouldn't speak it now that I understand it very well. But people say people aren't must be wonderful, you know, what, what language do you speak at home? And he says English? What else would we speak? And I have a joke with people. And I'll say to people at work. You know? How many of you have this dreadful thing in your with your partners? And I said, what, what is it and I said, my partner can only speak one language? And I said I don't mean besides English. I mean, he just speaks English. Can you imagine waking up with someone every day of your life? Who can only speak one language? And most of my colleagues go? Yes, Yes, we do. But I use Marty a lot. I don't use some I don't not speaking Marty with Bill, but he hears me a lot speaking with family. And he also understands when I if I'm doing something, there are certain words I always use and Marty, it's just what I do. So he understands those words. Now. I will always say Gilda, when I answer the phone, he will always say hello, it's built speaking. And that's how it should be that it's not a matter of me saying everyone's got to say killed up that that's not the point. As long as they don't criticize me for saying it. I don't mind how they say it. because English is a language that I'm very proud to have learned because it's a mental language that has allowed me to travel through the world. But Molly will always be my emotional body will always be my spiritual belief, which is another thing. I am married to who an atheist? Can you imagine anything like that a Marvi who has spiritual beliefs, who has been brought up in Christian ways? who disagrees entirely with the church but has a belief and certain way, you know, ways of thinking. So we used to have a sparkle and I'm sitting out there one night, and I said to Bill, now, I don't believe you're not spiritual? And he says, Well, I'm atheist. And I sort of said, well, you say that. But you know, you're pretty intelligent. So you must have some spiritual belief. He said, Don't you dare use that only because that's the argument I use on you. And we argue, well, we do on and we argue a lot. Not each other. But we do. We argue points a lot. Why is this? Why is this? Why is this. But if I was really truthful about the whole thing. And I mean this in a very loving way towards bill. He is one of the most spiritual people I have ever met. So if you can get a spiritual atheist, he's the man. And he is much more humane, and I am. He is much more willing to go the extra mile with people. He often puts himself out for other people, where as I sort of, say, under the Treaty of Litani, I don't have to, but this is why we get together we are a bicultural household. He is very Parker hard in the body things and what he does, and that's how he should be. That's how he should be. I am very Marley. And the way I think, and I've had many people come to me and sort of say, No, you're not Marley. And as well as I am, why not? Let's say, well look at the house uniform. Look at the way you live. Look at the way you travel around the world. And I said, Yeah, that's what I want to be. I know what it's like not to have things. I, for me. [00:19:52] I'm always broke. But I have never, ever been poor ever in my life. And what I'm saying with Marty was on my own model people is if you keep telling yourselves, we are poor, you get yourself into a mindset. And nothing goes right for you. And it doesn't matter what we do, nothing goes right. [00:20:14] If you're like me, and you say I'm broke, broke is always temporary. And then some days I have, you know, this money to burn type of thing. And not that I spend that I do save in there. But I can I give me everything I need, not everything I want. And that's just, that's just how it is. That's actually not true, I can get better you need and I want to say this, I get most things I want. The other thing which I have found is which I found difficult is that growing up, I was taught Ed, all of us as Marty, were taught, we were growing up in a parkour world. And we had to learn parkour ways. And we had to, which meant we were always on the back foot. Because no matter how well we did, you know many of us did very well. We don't look paga. And so people would say, Oh, you've done very well for Molly, haven't you? And we'd say no, we've done very well, because we've just done well. But the other thing is what I'm now putting into practice and talking to other people about tomorrow, people are saying is stop telling our children I have to drop in a park, how will they don't, they have to grow up in a modern world. And there is a difference. If you grow up in a modern world, you can be as Marty as I am, you can live where you like, but you say I'm in the modern world. This means that our children cease to be on the back foot. And I do this because I know what it is like [00:21:48] to the on the back [00:21:48] foot no matter how well you did. Although I must admit in my 30s 20s and 30s. My brother and I noticed this every time we did well at education, and everyone knows good New Zealanders. And every time we did badly Well, you just Mallory, and you'd sort of thing, you cannot have it both ways were Molly, and that's it. And people will say to you, well, how much Molly are you and I said all of it. And I said but you said you're Scottish and and and your Spanish? Absolutely. That is part of my heritage. And I am as proud of that as anything. But this is the country I live in Madea the people that I'm with, and Park, our people are the others. And this word paga. Only New Zealanders can be by English cannot be Americans cannot be no one else can be unless they live on these islands. And so when I'm talking to people and to English people that they say so we're partner and I said I've stopped social climbing or not. But our people who I will walk with on these islands, only only on these islands. And hopefully, we make country a better place to live culturally, spiritually, economically. and environmentally. We try and do those things together. And that's really important. Another thing people say to me, do you think we have too many Chinese people here? Do you think you do too many Indian? No, uh, don't. They have as much right to be here. They've come here they have as much right. And their children are our children. And that's how I think about that. And, you know, people have, it often comes up, because people want me to actually say it's wrong, that they're there. And I don't, I really don't believe that. If people have made an effort to come to this country, and I call it out here on New Zealand, if they, I was very lucky, as I'm sure you were born here can be much better. These people have come from places of great struggle, as my ancestors Didn't your ancestors did. They are coming to give their children a better life, as did our ancestors. So they're going to work hard. They're going to try and learn things, they're going to do stuff, they're going to be really good. And I would say all the ones that I have met, they do well, they feel a bit shy, like if they can't speak English, as we do if when we go to another country. They're here. They're ours. It's very difficult sometimes. But when any two cultures get together, it is difficult. As far as the Treaty of white and he goes, it was the most forward thinking document of its time to come out of Europe. What is it ever happened afterwards? And there are things going wrong. I know that. But I am so glad that we have this treaty, it's a treasure. And contrary to it most people's belief it isn't British documented is not motley. We didn't write it. We didn't say it. It's a little bit different than the MRT the way it's actually translated. But people get really surprised as it as it really you thought we all sat down together and wrote this? No, it's a British document. So with all the ups and downs and everything that you have, [00:25:26] it's a great place to be. It's a great place to be. [00:25:31] So living in a modern world now. If we have a child, would you give them a pack your name or a Mario? Why? [00:25:42] I had always said I would give him money name. [00:25:46] And it is slightly easier now. Because you we have tomorrow, we have Kudo papa. And our kids went to the critical Papa and that an English is pretty good. It's very good, excellent. They've also found that when a couple of them have tried to do other languages, it was easier. Nor do I think we have the panacea for the world. We are working that I would do that. Because the world is changed. One of the things sometimes when I hear Parker children talking, I almost cannot tell if they're Parker or Marley because they say things like white company, they say, My God, and whereas their parents and their grandparents don't. And that's not a fault. That's just how it was. I don't like it. But I have to accept the fact that's how it was. But I also remember my grandpa, well, no, my mother and that generation. When I spoke Molly, they talked about that you we Mountie, like the Molly people. But when they spoke English, they talked about the Mary's. And it was like two different things. Whereas most people now we talk about Maui. And so it's become a national thing. It also I hit children, really telling their parents and grandparents off Attila. And I always go and thank them. And I say this is wonderful. But your mom and dad, it was a different time. And if you're instead of telling them off, just be gentle with them. Because if you tell them off, it means that we become the enemy. Because it's you know, we're forcing something on them. And I don't want to do that. I know English was forced on my mother and those people and there was a big thing about being scared of schools because of that. And one of the things I feel really ashamed is my, although my father was a diplomat, and an ambassador, my brought my mother was the really one it was it was very, very intelligent, but never had the opportunities to go on. And my father also said, know your mother, if she had had the same opportunities, I don't know whether she'd look at me. And she said, Oh, I think I would. I think I would. And it's the same I suppose, with Bill Nye. He's quite well known within the community with what he does. But one of the things he said to me was the first person that he's been married to who more people knew they knew him. And he said to me once, he said, it's really strange, and I'm really proud that they do but somehow, he said, but I know people I know people. And I said, Of course you do. It's just that when if you do film and TV and that people think they know you. And this man builds friendships up. Yeah, I do too. But I mean, I'm, you know, I'm not I'm, you know, not that far. But he builds friendships with if he goes and that for Renata, that is me, you know this word Renata. People say its chief leader, but the word aroma is to leave. And the Tita has a word for people. So it's a weaver of people. And that's why when I call him around it, you know, my boss, but he's a good Weaver of people. He's much better than I am, I am very good at socially doing things, and being with people out there. But basically, if I meet you, I want to be with you right now. Because I might never meet you again, and things like that. And if I don't meet you again, we've had a good conversation. So that's right. Bill, friendships, 3040 years. And they and it's a good I can remember, quote, the same time once. You can make old friends overnight. And he said, what does [00:29:56] that mean? And I said, Listen carefully. [00:30:01] I said, too many gay people for me. [00:30:05] I don't know, it's so true. Now, because it's a different world. But when I was young, [00:30:10] we will all making friends overnight, we take with you one night, and all we're going to be forever, it's going to be just great. And this and that. And then, you know, a month later, well, I didn't work. But people ask me now. Well, you know, you and Bill have been together for 17 years, nearly 18 and sort of said, Well, you know, do you think this will be and I jokingly SolarCity, it will I can't be bothered going through all that again, and built it all thanks very much analyze it now you're not a joke. Anyway, [00:30:39] I'm really interested in how we identify ourselves. And something you said right at the start of this chant, in terms of your school, and what happens when the teacher can't even say your name. You know, what does that do to you internally? So not only thinking about your own name, but the words that use fighting by yourself like gay or Taka, Taka Yeah, [00:31:02] yeah. I mean, [00:31:05] I mean, what does it do when when, when the society can't even say your name correctly? [00:31:11] Money, people change the names. They did, it was a whole generation that changed the names. They wanted to have names like, jack, or Maxine or something like that. And when I do say, Maxine, it was a woman I'm talking about not I'm not gay queen. [00:31:29] And so but and that was that whole thing, because films you went to see them in television came out, these were the names, these were the people. And what that actually did, it keeps telling us we are wrong. And sometimes the only time when Molly people felt that they were okay, was when we were back with other Molly people. Now I get that occasionally, I sort of thought, I've really, I've just got to go back. But I don't have a fantasy about it. I go back, I may spend two or three weeks with people. But I am in the city. Now this is my home. This is where I live, this is where I've loved changing names. My brothers and sisters have all had the chance to change this and I want they want they have given my brother gave all his children, Marley names. And they were in a time where [00:32:31] teachers could say that in one media, they could say those things, and NQR. So [00:32:41] they didn't quite understand and I shouldn't have to, as they're getting older, they're understanding what some of the difficulties that their grandparents and great grandparents had. Um, but I'll tell you, the one who's the ones who are really holding the door open for us. It's not the mighty speeches are certainly there and MRT teachers, but it's often parents who never had the opportunity, what they are saying, as our children are going to have the opportunity. And what I do say to them is give them the opportunity. Don't force it anywhere. I remember my brother saying as well, my kids, they're all going to become teachers, and they're gonna do this and they're gonna do that. And I said, No, there was no, there was no proviso on this. What we did was, we give them this, how they use it, it's up to them. It's, it's, it's a gift there are there are no caveats to it, you just give it out. The one that has become a teacher was the one that had no interest at school whatsoever, who suddenly at the age of 15, went for everything that a university degree and Marty know then taught in Maui and teachers buzzer Marty and an English and was a Reddit one. And she and she was the one she was she just came from left field. We didn't know when it happened. Because she was much more interested in makeup and socialized she wasn't a fellows but c minus for school. And then suddenly there was this huge turnaround do each year sometimes it depends where the child is, I suppose. I got a nephew called Maathai. And nobody would dare say anything to him. Now he's a man, you know, a good looking guy too. But he came really home one day, he sort of said, everyone's calling me my guy. And, and a teacher giggled at us, not meaning to but just did, and that it damaged him for for a long time. He didn't want to go to school, he didn't want to do anything. And then we talked with him, we talked and told him what the Maathai was and what a good trade it wasn't in some war. It was a you know, High Chieftain and building those things for him. So he could have arguments without getting physical with people and saying as Look, this is what I'm. And then we said to him, as the partner children what their names mean. They won't know. But what he did was he asked them and we found out what the name is meant. And he gave a talk at school. Your name? Is this your name instead? And a guy called David I think he was one of those really horrible ones. And it said, David, your name means Beloved. [00:35:38] Does me not the [00:35:41] most beloved most cherished all those lamented What? I better have a martini. So, but Mike Mike, where there's a very good actor, his name is George him. His name was BE that's how we knew him as a child. When he went to school, Parker school, they called him poo he and he and he said, No, just call me George. But when he comes home Bay, and he knows where he is them, but you actually do and understand that and I really do understand that. [00:36:19] I don't know had been parents called me a mighty name. [00:36:24] Although my father really wanted to it was my mother who actually registered me. But I don't know what that would have done for me at school. I can only can only summarize. But I feel much more comfortable. In the name. Well, I've had most of my life now anyway. What I change it back? No, no. And I'm really surprised how popular people get really defensive of me, once they know my name. And if anyone else pronounces it wrong, you know, the pronunciation is wrong. It's it's part of our peoples like that is not his name. His name is this. That is not as name. It's not Randy, it's not this, it's a running one. It's very easy to say it's four syllables, rah, me ma na. And that's another thing is English speakers often take it as five syllables. And therefore it's too long. I said, I table it's raw, me more. Na? And I said, No, it's raw, me what not. And once I get that, it's very easy. So we try and make things as easy as possible with people as when they learn. And I know some people, they get nervous of some speakers, because the speakers will speak too fast. Or they'll say that, so how you say it. And hopefully I never say that. What I do say if somebody asked me a question and is speaking in Mali, or if they say something, it's not quite right, I never corrected, all I say is, wow, you know, you know, played by Joe Watson, that's, you know, it's sweet or recycle had dinner. It's really great listening to you, here is another way of saying that. And this way, we have kept their money and prestige, we are acknowledging that they are learning. And we are helping them just say, well, maybe this way, if you do that, and it's what I asked teachers to do, when we're teaching adults who are learning, just go with it. They're trying. And some of the ones who have the most difficult are MRT students, because there is this podcast, students are very good, but they don't have an emotional bond with us. They don't with the language. So it's not a matter of all I should have learned this, you know, I should know this, I shouldn't be having to learn this. And many people say are well, the best way to do it is to go back home, you know, go back to the MRI, that no longer works. The majority of the people back home Do not speak money. I will certainly a lot to do. But they're not teachers of language. So they're going to say is I don't understand what you're saying, if you if you don't say it, right. So they'll just speak in English, it's easier. Here, you get lots of criticism, or they've learnt that from university or they've learnt that from here, they've learned that from there. And I sort of say I don't care. The fact is they're learning it. They will not fortunate enough to have some of your advantages. But there is Marty as you are. If people are doing things for the community and it doesn't have to be Molly community of people are doing community things like the gay community, if they're doing things with other people, if they're helping immigrants, if they're doing that, and they are Molly, they adjust as Molly, just because they don't speak the language will always have enough of those those rooms, sometimes I think too many. And people say must be so wonderful, you know, culture, you know that you must feel that the cultures are better than anyone elses. It's just the culture that that feeds me. It's certainly no better than parkour people would certainly know better than Chinese or anyone else. It's not worse. But it's no better. [00:40:35] But it fulfills my needs. [00:40:40] So for words like gay, queer, rainbow, Taka, Taka, yeah, how would you I do [00:40:50] if I was really honest guy. [00:40:54] And I do say that I know people want me to say, we end up in a modern situation, I will. But Tapui is not a word. I've heard it all, all my life. But it didn't mean quite what it means today, what it may have, it meant that two males who were the best friends throughout life, they will often be married, but they did things together you that often say the wives would be jealous. Because these two guys would do things they would die for one another in battle and things like that. I think a lot of people don't understand the Jonathan and David story from the Bible is identical. It doesn't it they may have had a relationship physical. In fact, I'd be very surprised if most of these people didn't have some relationship at some stage. But it wouldn't be the primary relationship, it would be a very special relationship. And only with that person, that it wasn't as though that if if this person dies, they probably go to another person, they would just stay where they were. But in battle, who would be your best one you caught in the one who would hold you close the one who you would fight together, the one who you would give your liver to as what we sort of say that we say [00:42:13] cohort it [00:42:15] would give you my liver because a liver has enough goodness in it. If you gave it to someone they could survive. And that's how you show your love in Marty. It's not the heart. It's the lover. It's the liver. Because it's about what the sustenance of course, I sing the songs, you know, hit, you know, hit Dakota, we are all those, and it means it. But gay. was the word that we came out with gay was the word that I really protected around gay was the word that I had my nose broken twice for. Gay was the word that I've been knocked out for. And I've got into fights for I didn't start them. And sometimes I didn't finish them a couple of times I did a couple of times I did. And once that happens, I don't want to be in fights. I want to be able to argue logically with people. What is it? Now I know with the fundamentalist Christians, they say it is a blight. You know, it's God's, you know that God doesn't like this. And yes, there are things in Leviticus and there are things, but you're looking at a people. Who was it? Well, why is this in there? It must have been that they were gay people there and they said, we're a small nation, we need more kids get off, get married. And that makes sense. You say as know, we need more men, you we cannot have we need more soldiers. You dying. YouTube is good for there. But we need other generations. And it has to do with war and property. So one of the things I looked at that and I said yeah, that doesn't that for me, because it was for me being gay was about me, it was about no one else. I will not out people want. They have to come at their own time. And I do feel sorry for them, or what are you going to say about the Christians? Yep, yep, yep. Let me get back to it. [00:44:20] You told me God's infallible. [00:44:23] If you believe that, then we are made in the same image. If that's what you believe, then this is it. If you're telling me that God's infallible, but these things, then the he's making 50,000 mistakes a day. And therefore you can't have it both ways. You either say God is is infallible, we are made all this way. Or you have to say that God is infallible, fallible, infallible, and therefore has made 50,000 mistakes a day. And if you go that through the so called ongoing I'm a Christian thing about the being 5000 years, he could have rectify that mistake by now Surely, if that was a mistake. [00:45:10] That's my arguments with it. [00:45:14] Good to tell you a joke. [00:45:16] I went to see [00:45:19] a minister of priest or Minister and I want to find out about this guy thing. [00:45:26] And he says to me, [00:45:28] look here. What I want you to do is I want you to say Satan, Get thee behind me. And I went, Oh, I think to the side behind me, we might never get home, he would get out. And it's those things. It's also the humor that you can have to have the ability to laugh at ourselves. I don't always I say to people, sometimes I say be careful. I can say jokes about Marty. And I don't. Maybe you need to just watch it. Maybe if I'm saying jokes about paga I may need to watch it. I may need to see it. So I get around by saying that. I just don't define what what they are, what what race they are. But with the Gazan. Yeah, I can take a joke as well as anyone I think. But you got to go there yourself. And I had one wonderful, really good straight friend of mine, Richard. We were doing something and these two young Polynesian guys came up. I wasn't there at the time, I just come through afterwards. And they were looking at something and they kept saying there's, oh, man, it is so gay. That is so gay. And Richard said, What do you mean? And I said, Oh, it's just gay man. You know, it's gay. It's really gay. And he said, Well, I'm gay. What does that mean? What does that mean? And there's a column and it's cool. That's really cool. You're gay. You know that? That's cool. Nothing about that. Is it? them? Are you saying that? Yeah. If I said that some more or that tomorrow? And what would you say? When they want? You can't say don't use it yet? Well, you can't say this. And I commend just on this. And what are you doing? Is it a little fuckers? They can say that. You can't say that. But now they're gonna tell everyone you're gay. And he said, I couldn't give a stuff. Yeah, but your wife and children might. And he said, Well, I don't know. I'm not now they never left. So you can have good friends. I don't choose friends because they are married. I don't choose friends because they are gay. I choose friends because they're good people. [00:47:40] And I could really if they are KM now naughty, that's even that's a bonus. But no. [00:47:48] All right, family. We are very mildly not one of us married. [00:47:54] Not one on us. [00:47:58] I don't know if you realize this about all that eight years ago, a guy from naughty Paulo. He married a minor member of the British royal family. [00:48:09] Everyone was saying contract you from naughty, naughty Pro, Roger Majid. How dare you bring our culture down by marriage into that family? [00:48:21] And those are the things I love about us, you know? Because everyone was saying to me, he's married to the royal family. Isn't that right? Now we're ashamed of him. [00:48:31] Okay. [00:48:34] So your your nose breaks was it was that during the reform was before? [00:48:38] Okay was before because I was still going, I am going to you know, I'm going to I'm not going to hide it. I don't France it. But if somebody would say something, and I would say, you know, to me, they would never take me on one on one. It was usually two or three at a time with God. And therefore you're not. And I took it, right? If this is what you gotta do, I'm still not gonna hide. And I said, [00:49:06] I got brothers, and I know where you live. [00:49:11] Because my family, they would not let anyone touch me. They wouldn't my sisters, and that would just come up. And just, every now and again, I have to say, we need to calm it down. Now we need to come up now. Because as kids and I thought by thinking more families do this, we always was just all bundled together, you know, the kids are taught my little sister's to bed. And my dad, my brother and I had to stop when we were now when I was in my 30s. And they were in their 20s and teens. And RB was a mate, you know, and all my family would be piling into bed and like, you know, our mate would be naked or something. This is lovely. This is great. Is it a Molly thing that you do? [00:49:56] So [00:49:58] Life is good. It's not perfect. [00:50:03] But I consider myself most times the most blessed person in the world. And I know that's arrogant because other people say that I really do feel that. And I feel one of the luckiest people because I have actually been born Molly. And again, I want other people to think that about themselves. Because if you don't feel that about yourself, then other cultures become a threat. If you are very confident in your own culture, and I'm very confident in the English speaking world, and very confident within Maori them in the Maori speaking world. And I have a real interest in other cultures. There's no threat to me personally. There's no threat to any of our children and our grandchildren either. And we say to them, embrace the people, because it's not in Maui. What is the most important thing, it's not being a Maui being a Maui being a money? It is the people it is people it is people. And there's no color in that. And we are the only people in the world who in 1840 got the rights of British subjects. All right, it was taken away. But we got it. No other colored race was ever offered that no other colored race actually held the British down so mercilessly like we did. And what people have to remember that we are the only colored people that Queen Elizabeth apologize to what was happened to us and what happened to us there were bad things back nothing compared to what has happened in other countries nothing. But it was Maori people who got the apology. It was Molly people. They said, if the apology happens, we may be able to read start processes. later on. Jimmy Shipley, actually did an apology, I think to the Chinese people for what has happened to them. Which means if you if you recognize the faults, you actually can start a healing process. If you don't, what happens will fester, as nearly happened in the 1970s because many of us as Marty said, we have lost so much now. We'll take anyone on, we will take anyone on and I truly believe had there not been a recapitulation of government and that they saw what was happening with those huge protests of Marty coming in. that there may have been a civil war. Now, again, that's only hearsay. But if I remember what happened on the 17th, Marley marching Marley 10th embassies, Marty's not on a tour, the Masai warriors people coming in, and then later on hearing someone do a haircut in English, so it couldn't be smoothed over by translation. actually said I will make you understand the haka. I will make you understand what I think there was a hacker and in one of the words and Madea goes poder de Baca glue, and it has translated as a noble lords, we have our disagreements. [00:53:21] Bodie pocket as you bloody bastards, you buggers. And it's a transliteration of bloody burger. [00:53:29] And once said, we're not translating it, we're going to do it in English, you cannot cover it, because many of the elders and they were trying to sort of smooth it. They understood how we felt, but they didn't know how to put it to the wider community. Television radio had actually altered that, but there is still an underlying prejudice in the country. And that is I've recently been looking at billboard, what's up around the place. And the only people that says that are successful in this country of white people, it I looked at billboards, you know, have a successful career and it's white people, be successful business people, white people, be very good at this, you have a job at this, you could do this. Even things for like stewards, and stewardesses, all those other things, the faces know, students is difficult to change that a little bit. But on all the major things, it's always the white faces are shining. And without. With that, it's subliminal, because what actually you're telling Marty people is, or other people in the land. This is a white man's place, the new place, and it's not happening, it's not going to happen. It's the sophomores and Molly or more of coming together now more, we're much more than I did before we will work once we get over the fear of video of our people get get rid of the xenophobia, [00:55:12] then [00:55:14] we will start working because the color population will be more than 50% of this within the next 30 years already, it's up to nearly 40 are 3535. And it will keep growing. But English is going to be the language is going to be a language that we speak English is going to be it I think Marty will carry on it will change. And as it should. And what we are saying to Chinese parents and to some on parents, and that is if it's not a matter of teaching your children some or or Chinese speaking to them. If you do not do it, within two generations, it will go. [00:55:58] And that's how I think. [00:56:02] So looking back at the 70s Do you think there are parallels between say the Maori Renaissance and say the gay liberation that was happening? I mean, okay, [00:56:13] yes, I I'm, in some ways, I was lucky. Because I, to me, the Modern Renaissance was more important. It was much more important for me. And it was already on the way by the time that gay Renee songs came through. And so therefore, everyone knew me as Molly. And that was great. But now, I could allow the other thing to happen to him the guy run a songs and going through the marches and going through those things, and standing on the front and saying, No, this is me. And people said stupid things like, but you're so good at sport. No. Yeah, I didn't particularly like it. But you had to do it. There wasn't much choice. Oh, yeah. But you know, and somebody said, You ride horses, you drive, you know, used to drive, you know, cattle, unless it was a job. I didn't sort of think, Oh, I must show them that I'm a gay person that I can ride a horse. And then I can you know, do cattle share sheep, and that there wasn't much choice, you have to do it. [00:57:19] Say, never thought of you. And I sort of said [00:57:25] it will. I don't think we ever thought about it at all, to be quite honest. And that's what I mean is don't, I don't really kill those people, we have still remained friends. And most of my straight friends and nonfatal, all of them now, they get really jealous if I don't have them. And these are the guys. They say. They'll say to me, don't be a puff, give me a hug. Thank you, right. But it's a real good thing that you might consider, give me a hug, you know. And sometimes they'll say all bloody hell good was probably not one of those ones. Because my mates don't had like this. Now they used to, they just follow them. It's like that. And I also think now you see it in sport a lot more you see. You know, you see sports, people doing it after a game, you see men doing it after a game. And this has made a difference to the moon. [00:58:25] So you've mentioned storytelling earlier in the interview. And you've also mentioned things about kind of activism, like going on marches, do you find that your storytelling is also a form of activism [00:58:38] is very much so very much. So. [00:58:42] For one thing that [00:58:47] I tell stories in a way [00:58:50] that [00:58:53] you have to listen, and I don't, and I don't do them loud. But what I do is I do do a story. And I use a lot of dance movements, action, slow motion, all that. And then I'd retell the story again, with no words, just actions, and the audience gives it back. One of the things I learned when when I was in Hawaii, is that I had like 200, say, between five and seven year olds come in. And I asked that only about seven teachers stay in the room and the theater. But everyone else to go out all the adults to go out. And so I told the children the story. And we went over it, we went over it. And we said, when I'm going to tell it this time, I'm going to tell it slowly. And you can only tell it as I'm doing the actions. And you tell your mom and dad what they are. But we're going to do something. When I do this, I'm going to do this part of the story. And when your mom and dad asked you, you're going to say, I can't tell you that that's a secret. And if you're very good, I'll tell you later. And so we did this thing. So I don't know if you had it, but my parents used to either spell out words and things like that. So I couldn't understand that by saying, and these children had this. And so what they did was by having that action, they all just like carried on, uh, but then we like this. And that meant they could say again, and the parents [01:00:36] can tell you feel good will tell you. [01:00:39] Well, most of the kids gave up, you know, at the end of the day, they told their mom and dad, which was great. But I was in Hawaii for about two weeks. And I got this call from a parent and sort of said, [01:00:50] my child has been telling me that I'm still not my behaviors not being good enough. And they still haven't taught me that part of the stock, right? [01:01:00] So I got the challenge on the phone. And I said, [01:01:04] Do you know I think [01:01:07] if I give you the magic? [01:01:10] Can you actually tell them now? Is it [01:01:14] magic for? And I said, Yeah. Because you've kept it there so long, that won't even come out? And I went Oh, so just on the phone? I would [01:01:24] say can you feel limited? Yeah. [01:01:28] Well, the part of that story was like that. [01:01:32] And it I like to give children those things sometimes. But also what it does it actually a families come and I don't just do stories for children stories I do for families, because that was the idea of storytelling is that parents and children when I'm doing the second one that will work together. And they will try and work it out. And and I say to the parents, [01:02:03] whatever the child says is right. [01:02:06] That's how they saw it. That's how it is it's right. Please do not say that's wrong. You know, and because sometimes children even though you do it, something else goes on in the head. And that's fine. And it's just that, if you do it, and I'd say to parents say that's great. And you know, the way I saw I saw this happening in it. So the child is not wrong. But we can go on because I'm only there for an hour. If a child is thought to be wrong, then I'm to blame. Because I haven't done it right now. And that's what we're trying to get the parents to know, you've got to be there with them. And you can usually tell what the parenting skills are like, because you can see there are some that you know, get really frustrated that their child hasn't understood the soul has got it wrong. And listen, let me keep going. [01:03:02] And we congratulate every child. [01:03:05] And if there are some parents that haven't done well, I will not congratulate any parents. But if I can see everyone has done well, then I go on until you're so lucky to have parents like this. And you are lucky to have this child, you are very lucky. And so we do that. And it's a way I try and do things as a malady. But also as a human being. And when I teach things, I teach them because it's no good me taking them to the grave. no good at all. It's stupid. [01:03:40] If there is someone who I believe [01:03:45] is worthy of lying something, I certainly will tell them. A lot of the things I've handed down to the next two generations, things that I was taught, certainly not everything. But we haven't away as a couple of was fourth. And you've got to give out the knowledge. Otherwise, you're just going to got mad. And if the but as you keep giving up, more comes in. And so you've got to keep giving out, keep giving out. You can never give it all out. Because although you're trying, it just keeps filling up. So I'm hoping on the last day, I can say is take the whole bloody camp. [01:04:28] I mean, we're just that generosity of spirit come from how [01:04:31] it goes from both. I didn't. [01:04:36] I didn't really know my parents. I was never close to them like my brothers and sisters were because they lived only with him. I did not. But [01:04:46] my mother [01:04:50] didn't always understand what that she understood humor my and my father understood very well. And there lies the nub of an argument because my mother the noise, get what the witticism was. But the wit and I think came from my father's mother, who had this wicked sense of humor. And the funny thing about that she was a Salvation Army officer. And my father was in there too, which is why I'm saying, when he said the things about you have to be true. If it's gay, you have to go there. We can't do it all. And he said, If I have a problem with it, I need to work it out. [01:05:31] I'm wondering, what are some of the other values that you have? So we've you know, talked about that generosity? I mean, what, what are the other things that kind of call to you? [01:05:43] I'm an introvert. And by that, I mean, when I'm out there with people, I am totally out there. But once I get home, I will not talk to people. I mean, I will always be polite, but I will not talk two people. And that is sometimes I've had people come at me all day, I've been teaching all day I've been doing and I teach at all different levels. And so when I come home, I don't want to do anything else. Now bill is a counselor, so he listens all day. And he still hasn't used up hardly any of his words. So he needs to talk he needs to be there with people. And so he'll have guests here. When I first started coming onto it, everyone thought I didn't like them. And then I realized I had to tell them why. And he's only ever got angry with me once about that is that we had guests. And after an hour, I had enough to be no way to be nice it doing unless you have had enough. I know them. I've seen them. I've been polite and he said I don't know them. They your family. This is the first time I've met them get out of bed and get [01:07:01] that's the only time. [01:07:03] So I try to pass this lesson. So we'll see how long you people stay [01:07:09] was what? There are other things. [01:07:14] Bill is a lot freer in the home. So I have people come in. This is all just help yourself go to the fridge and I don't I sort of asked people can I get you this? Can we get you that? It's a way of me. It's both what Nope, neither way is wrong. But I don't like people coming in and just sort of saying as always have this and have this bill doesn't care. You know, bill that she says it and I would sort of guard? No. But what I have done is I will maybe so the first cup of tea and the drink and then say from now on hope yourself. So I have compromised in that way. And Bill has not compromised at all. blesses little monocultural hand cut. Getting on that. I know also, people take people that are you're not an introvert, because they think because they see me with people. But I get my strength from when I'm by myself. So I can actually do that. Bill. If you if you saw Bill and I together when we're out. It would be bill who you thought would be the introvert because he will talk to one or two people, but he will have real conversations with them. I might or I might and depending on how I feel depending on where I've been. [01:08:36] And so usually [01:08:40] it's the people I've been talking, I might say come home, but if you don't, I'm not worried about it. But I can guarantee everyone that bill has spoken to me will be visiting within the next two days. Or on that night they will be coming and that house is full of people as it Why do we bother to go out? Why don't we just invite people. [01:09:02] So there are those things bill, I go to bed very early at night. [01:09:08] And bill comes to bed very very late like two o'clock in the morning. That's where he comes to bed. That works for us. I didn't used to I used to get up and then bill used to worry about you know if I was out late or something like that, because he knew that I'm a homeboy, and but we keep in communication, but we don't. We really don't live in each other's pockets. And there's bills in Australia at the moment, and I don't miss them one little bit. But I'm so glad when he's back. I am so glad when he's back. I'm the same I'm going away, I go away for at least two or three months a year either, usually back to Europe or America to teach. And, and we don't miss each other. But by Crikey when we get back together, it's just been really been holds and Big hugs in that to that we are family. And my family, my my Well, my family, all of them. Bella's family, blessed family. And what's even better. His former wife is also family. And because if ever I get sick of Bill was away, she is the one I call she comes in, because my brothers and sisters live away. You know, they live in poverty here and there. But she just lives around the road. So she comes there. If we have a family gathering, they sort of say, well, you will bring the day I wonder. One day I didn't. I said, Did you invite today or did you just leave? No. She was doing something else. Bill says yes, she was doing something else. [01:10:45] I do have a template. [01:10:48] much as I would like to bring with this wonderful very dust on you. I do have a temper. And it's I have a voice which is very, very loud. And it's in its end. tangles got scared of me is once because he was so cool on this argument. And there was no way I envisioned as I knew he was right. But I got to that stage. I'm not admitting you're not admitting You're right. And I knew he was right. I'd rather not tell him that because he looked so smug. So I just wrote at him. And I just saw him. And I was so sorry, once I've done it, I was really I've never done it again, never ever done it again. Because [01:11:31] he wasn't used to that [01:11:34] sort of sit, then you're lucky because I usually used to hit people for that for what you said. So I thought I was being really cool just using the voice. But I also realized that it can be very frightening when when you've got a Marty coming at you, who suddenly looks much better than you who's coming with all the fighting skills in that and, and using that. I do. Keep on the whole, it takes a lot for me to lose my temper. [01:12:05] And it's not that I [01:12:07] have other ways of doing things now. And I do do them. And Bill knows that I also have a thing. We both have a we have an agreement that if one of us feels that something's getting out of hand, [01:12:22] you say it. [01:12:25] And unfortunately, I'm the one who's getting [01:12:30] just winning. Now you're just using it because you want to win the argument you want to be getting out of hand now. So I've got to go outside. I feel like I take the dog out, we go for a walk. But it's like, I don't know you. I don't know you had this, but I used to get this. Get outside come back when you're ready. Really, I'm ready now. But I don't know when I'm ready. But it does work. And I have that thing about being able to go out out, work it out. When I do it takes them off. So I've never said you are part of it. You could be right on that a little bit more through any now is is one of the arguments. And then he always says it's not about winning. It's not about winning, and I said are bushes. So because he sits there smiling. [01:13:25] Now you've mentioned a couple of times the word marriage. Yeah. And I would like to know from you your thoughts on things like same sex marriage? And I mean, when that whole debate was happening around kind of the marriage amendment. there was all this talk about kind of just assimilation. [01:13:45] Yeah. So what are your thoughts on white [01:13:47] marriage? and assimilation? [01:13:48] Well, I thought that too. I was saying is what but and I'd said to Bill, [01:13:55] because bill does want to get married, when I sort of said, Well, we cannot really work this through. [01:14:01] I didn't want it actually necessarily for me. But I wanted other people to have the choice if they wanted it. That was as simple as that. And some people, some straight people said to me, Well, what's the difference of the law goes through, you know, what difference will make. And I said quite simply, I can't object to straight people getting married. What? And I said, I cannot object to you getting married. I said, that's what it's like, you can get married, I can't object. The same as of our people want to get married, you can't object. And the people who actually and I'm not talking until now, let me be very careful what I'm saying here. Often people who didn't like colored people, then there was a next generation with colored people. And, and and white people did get married. And there were then people who didn't like that, because I thought that was wrong. What is going to happen to the children? How will they know who they are? Then the next thing about gate people having children? The same argument happened again? How will the children know who they are when the children actually do know? And I've grown up children, I do know who they are. By but in the marriage thing. For me it was saying is don't you dare tell me? I can't do this. I might want to do it. But don't you tell me I can't. And that was the reason why when we had the civil union build on to to have a three day affair, we were going to have this and then as soon as it belonged on me, they'll be there on the last hour when we do the bloody thing. For three days, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna shoot things and you know, have fireworks and this and that. And so that said, See the extrovert. I just wanted a quiet little thing with a couple of people. And Bill, if possible, to be there. So what we did, we actually went up to the huddle. We said to people, we've got three houses that are jam packed with everything. We don't need anything. It's a it was a fine day, bring food and drink and let's have a picnic. And that's what we did. So the whole wedding cost us $50. You know, the whole thing. Then when the marriage thing was up, bill came and said to me, I think we should probably do this, don't you? Meaning I don't want this. Again, it's not a matter of hiding it because I certainly didn't with with the civil union. But I wanted to be a natural part of my life. And I every wants a celebration. Well, I got to go somewhere. You know, nobody got the registry office today, that's for sure. And some [01:17:03] who will lift the veil? And I sort of said, Oh, Bill, he looks so pretty. [01:17:09] Sorry. [01:17:12] But what he What can I tell you this what we did? [01:17:18] In the civil union acid? Well, Bill, you've been married once and you had a relationship with Jaron. [01:17:25] Did you ever propose to those people? It [01:17:31] was it? You got it? So I said I'm going to propose to you, please. Sure. That's all right. Nice. [01:17:41] or whatever it was. So union, is it now it's your turn on your knees and they got homeless? And he said run in one [01:17:48] hour be very honored. If you would actually be my civil union partner, would you do that? I had to think about he was. [01:18:06] So he said, if we do to marriage, I'm not gonna ask you [01:18:12] that later. [01:18:15] So for me, [01:18:18] I mean, I, this is how I thought of it. And I remember talking with someone else. You know, marriage is between a man and a woman. It's a sacred thing. Blah, blah, blah, blah. It's about children. And you stay together. And I thought, well, Henry, the eighth would be turning over in his grave wouldn't you know, this, this gay marriage thing, you know, when he promised? Now, I've said to people, they said, Well, I won't last. And I said, Well, we've only had it a year. You've had marriage equality for several hundred years, and you still haven't got it, right? There are still divorces, there are still all these types of things. We're not going to be 100% we won't be we might, it might be quite high at the beginning, it will live all out. It will live all out. But you cannot judge us. If two people get together, and after five years, they don't work. Because that's how long many of the marriages work? If there are children, yes, that actually adds to phones. But also, the marriage things means that we are taking responsibility. Now. When you actually get the list. If you're married, you get less on the pension, you get less and show you need to put all those things into perspective as well. And I did. And I said, No, it's still worth it for me. If, if that's what Bill wants, it's still worth it will still do it. But I don't feel I need to. And I wouldn't do the civil union straightaway. I wouldn't. Because I said, you know, there were people I went to the first one in Wellington, and you know, was great, and all this and that, and it was wonderful. But I said, but I wanted to really work through so that we're seeing lots of people doing it not because I didn't want to do it. So that when we're doing it, we're not doing it for show we're doing it because we need to and I'm not saying those people did either. But I said we have to be really sure. And I said and I think we're pretty sure because at that stage, we've been together 14 years, something like that. So I sort of said, Well, yeah, you know, but that was really it. [01:20:35] And so what does that mean to you? Um, [01:20:41] you can still talk about bill as my partner, let people know. And we will, we will still talk about it. If people ask, we will say, yes, we've had a civil union, what has it done? I think it has done something. I think it has mentored some things. [01:21:03] This is the longest I've ever been with one person. [01:21:09] This is [01:21:13] I would say probably the deepest that I felt about this. Now. That may have happened without without the civil union. Because it was the time thing that actually happened at the time. But the civil union was a celebration for my family. And one of my sisters at the time, was very fundamentalist Christian. And she'd been on the anti gay marches and this and that. And my other brother and sister when butchers out here saying is that he bought you up. You know, your dad, mom, one day, you live with him for four years, and now you're doing this and that or uniform, and you still coming around? So when we will get into civil union not put does it look, it's over to you. Be there and there was all this thing, love the sun or not the sun Barbara. And then she went to the person and sort of said, you will not go to that wedding. [01:22:14] She said, See ya. [01:22:18] You never tell resistors they can't do somebody ever. And as soon as they did, she said she walked out. We didn't know if she was coming. She said as soon as they said you cannot said you don't tell me what to do. I'll listen to all the other things. And before that, but you're not telling me this. And then she said, because when she had a friend who died, the church that she was with, and their way of thinking is to go, you know, it's all happy. We're going to you know, blah, blah, blah. And that's fine. So I thought, well, this is what she thinks. But my family were going on and we are Maui. So wins. And she could hear us coming on and she burst into tears and everything. And people said you shouldn't do that. And she said, I need to. I need to this is the only way I know how to do this. And I said but you are being so strong. And she said it was really tearing me up. I never, if I go to a party or funeral and this lady asked me to do something I will never impose my reasons I want it's not my place to that family is in mourning, they must mourn and we will mourn the way that they mourn. And I noticed the first time I noticed this, I think was at sir Keith Hollyoaks funeral. I can't remember. But on one side, all the partner people and they were still it was very quiet. And my partner family were over there too. And so I went over and I was well, on our side. We're sitting down smoking, folding legs laughing, Catholic laughing. The body arrives. They are silent and still. We are full regalia. Everything is gone the way Linds happened, he'd had he got into the church, we're sitting down again, and what do you reckon about that? You know, I didn't like the way they did that, did you think God comes out the part of your people standing still, the same thing happens, we do the whole thing as the host goes, everything goes. And it was it was then I realized that I come from two cultures. [01:24:27] And they will mourn in different ways. [01:24:31] And I saw the divide at that time. Because I could hear my Marty people saying in Mali, they're really false. Nobody could stand like that be like that. You just don't do that. But I also knew that my people were feeling the same way about us. That was actually close coats funeral. And [01:24:54] I remember thinking, [01:24:58] it's not that I have to be one or the other. I am both. And I live well with with both. [01:25:05] And I would hope that I will have [01:25:11] as much respect for the person [01:25:15] rather than the culture. [01:25:18] So expanding that out, is that how you see by capitalism in this in this country that actually [01:25:24] I think it needs to arm? It's a difficult one that question because the goalpost keeps shifting. Now we've got everyone saying killed off, you know, and people understand that and you hear it and, and then we shifted a bit further and a bit further. And because era, please don't think I'm arrogant, but I do consider myself a bicultural person, right. [01:25:48] A lot of the people are scared because they don't know what it means. [01:25:55] It is really having a respect for the other people it's saying is I would like to learn a little bit more about you. So it doesn't mean I come to you and sort of say tell me everything about by how people you know, you know, everything. But what happens to me as a commodity. Sometimes I'm expected to know everything. I'm expected to know about carving about calling the women's rights, the woman's listening. And I have a smattering of them as most people do. of any culture, and maybe a little bit more because I've had to, but I don't know everything I don't. And when I often ask somebody above your colleague of mine, I'm actually asking, what do they think about something within their culture? And I'm not quite the same as what what do you think about that? You know, I'm saying is, I would really like, there might be another way for me to think about this as well. Very rarely happens, I might say. But it has had, it has happened. But [01:27:06] people are scared of it. [01:27:11] And what they don't realize is that probably at least a quarter of your country. I mean, Molly, I think we're 16%. But I think there is another 10% who are bicultural already. And English is the second culture for them, or it's one that's coming up. And I do know, bicultural paga people many. And it doesn't mean I speak Marley it might mean they speak German or French or this and that. But it means that they have it. If they've gone that far, they've had to look at a culture and they've actually become immersed in the culture. So I also add that to the part of say they are these bicultural people. So just because a person is white does not mean they're not bicultural. Just because a person is white does not mean and I'm talking about when we had the big hurry for another failure. The biggest delegations, Welsh, Scottish and the lap landers. The next one that people from parts of Japan, the next one people from parts of France, was it and people saying that, but you know, like, not the Japanese so much, but does it but they're all white. And they said, No, we were taken over by somebody else. Our languages are dying. So we get together and talk about this [01:28:35] sort of laughed about it. We're all talking about it. But we have to use English as the language because that's the one we all understand. [01:28:42] And that's another I think that's quite another salient point is that I could learn, and I do to speak little tiny bit of someone a little bit of time, and you know, just the greetings and you know, how are you and what fatigue and all that type of thing. But we use English, as you know, as Alan and when I'm in Tahiti, we will use French or I will use Marty sometimes sometimes that's easier for us both. But I want to keep on with my French because although it's a long way behind English, it is the second most spoken language in the Pacific. And that is a French Polynesia speaks it and there's nearly half a million of them that speak it and I don't think there's anyone else that does that, you know. [01:29:36] So those are reasons [01:29:40] do I [01:29:44] I think only a person knows if they're bicultural. [01:29:48] And if they're a fear of it, it means they're not. [01:29:52] If they embrace it, [01:29:56] then I always it's going one or two steps. [01:30:01] That's all it is. [01:30:04] It's not being afraid of what happened at the Treaty of white on me. It's not being afraid of bad things that were done on both sides. But it's not fair to say everything bad was done on Mary side and nothing on my. And when you can come to that. I do not want an apology from people. I really don't. It's a waste of time. But I would like people to come on the journey. [01:30:34] And there are many journeys. [01:30:37] thought if I'd been a lesbian, I would have had all the negative points, all the points I could have got for grants and everything, you know, minority, gay woman, all those things are sort of sad. But those are recent. Now one of the things that many people have made mistakes about and I understand this because I used to think this dope is that saying is Mario have always had handouts. And I've heard this a lot or there was no handouts, no housing. And I've tried to say to people, [01:31:11] the land that was illegally taken [01:31:15] today is worth $50 billion. [01:31:20] We took 1 billion that's don't know. [01:31:24] The handouts that were given to us over 20 or 30 years was $100,000. So if I came, and I borrowed $1,000 from you, and I said well, his two cents be satisfied with it. Would you be satisfied? No. So if I cannot put it into those terms, I also do another thing which I'll use the pen and it's I'll speak at three but I'll do it. I say take something like her and I'll use the pen and animosity, okay. [01:32:03] Now, this is land, this is land, okay. For some reason [01:32:10] it's been stolen. How they got it? I don't know, they put a fence around it. But the police come around now. And they say, No, no, we've always known as these people's land, you don't have anything legal to it. It's back. Okay. [01:32:24] Now, this time, it's [01:32:27] a gold pin, and Scott raised or not, okay. [01:32:32] It's stolen. [01:32:34] I've got the papers that says it's mine. [01:32:37] But before we catch the thief, he forges more papers, and he sells it to somebody else, they buy it. We're now in the 1870s. The Boer War comes on. And it's given to the soldier that goes and he has killed, but the pin comes back and this has dropped by half. [01:33:01] It is then handed down to the next soldier. [01:33:05] And he goes to war and he is killed. It comes back it goes to the family again. It happens again and again. Then finally it comes to you and papas having this huge exhibition now. And it's about pens that were done on people button, and you bring yours. There it is. But I've got a photograph here, over here. And it's got all the marks in the series, I am not. But this has gone through your family through every generation, through pain and everything. And you've got your stains, who does it belong to? [01:33:42] That's what we're dealing with. [01:33:45] That's what we're dealing with something as simple as that. Now, for me, I would say well really does belong to me. But we'll have to really look at this. That's, you've got to be able to look at those difficulties and face them. And so when I was teaching, I would have Marley and parkour students when we were doing 3d of why Tony, and I would make the money. say we don't want it in the park our people to say it was we don't get them to play opposites each other. And the body of people actually understood what I was doing. The Mighty people didn't. And they got really angry at the arguments that were coming. And as you know, you got to keep going back, keep going back, come back, come back, come back. It wasn't till four years later, when they went to court. They knew they could be passionate, but not emotional. And I could put their arguments forward. Because what I was teaching, and I'm in this, you need to argue the point not the person, if you get emotional will pat you on the back of their old how awful you are. But you'll lose, you'll lose. It's not about not having passion. But it's actually really working at arguments. And I would hope I would do this for anyone who was the underdog, whether they be black, white, I don't care. If I felt something was wrong, I will defend those people. I do that to Papa and people, stupid people when I've gone to the people upstairs, that's you. But this is not a money thing. Unless it was, but one of my mates is actually been you know, there's a but he's a partner and I sort of say he's my mate. And you've done this wrong. Now, I will call him the union. I will call him this and that. And if you really want me to I will call another Maori people that stop get gets it moving. And I've only had to do that once. But they know I will do it. Because if somebody is wronged I don't care what color they are. If they're wrong, they're wronged and you don't. And sometimes I've had to go up against my own Molly people for that possessive know this person is right, [01:35:57] you are wrong. [01:36:01] It's part of my bond, cultural journey. That's how I see it. I see it defending each other of being together. In good times. And and bad. [01:36:14] of not being afraid, [01:36:17] either to Papa, which I say to, which is the thing that I brought in, [01:36:23] especially with our team. [01:36:26] Nobody will ever stop me speaking Marty. When I speak more into Papa, I will. But I will never, ever talk about somebody who can't understand me. I will talk in front of them. But I will never talk about them. I will never do. And once we've got that established, people didn't just started enjoying us speaking Molly. And then if we burst out laughing them and say something in English, and we'll try and get it how it happened. Now I had one young Marty woman beautiful speak of Molly actually. And one day she used she used the transliteration for a name. And then proceeded to speak about this person. And because he didn't understand the transliteration and she wouldn't look at him. She talked and I went straight into English. And she looked at me. And she just shifted the conversation we spoke about and I kept speaking in English. And I did this for three days. And she said Why are you speaking to me in English and everyone else? And Mario knows it because you brought the one rule? I say but he did not he but I did. And we don't speak. So you will hear Chinese being spoken Hindi, German, French, and that. [01:37:42] Molly, or an English [01:37:45] and English being spoken. And you do that on the proviso. You must not speak ill of anyone? If you do you have to speak it in the language that they understand. This young woman said to me, but the French people were saying things about you and they even use your name. And I understood what they were saying. [01:38:09] Just as simple as that. [01:38:12] That's bicultural. [01:38:14] One of the things that really struck me as I was reading some background material on you before I came today. And you had talks in an interview about through storytelling, finding warmth and unexpected places through different audiences. And I'm wondering if it's a maybe if you can comment on as a way of rounding out [01:38:36] what happens is that when you do it, I always say my culture is no better than yours. Okay, so it brings people in, and it doesn't matter what they look like what their colors. Hopefully I'm coming to them as an equal. And sometimes you've read, I had to really push that because I'm on a stage. I've got lights coming at me, I've got all those things happening. And if people cannot come up to you afterwards, I'm not saying I got but if people don't feel that they can come up to you. And ask you questions, say wonderful things, or [01:39:20] how can they do something? [01:39:23] That I'm not doing the work, right? [01:39:26] If children and I do answer, I really do answer and I do. When I'm when I'm doing storytelling. When I've done a film or something I get a lot of fan mail. I answer every letter, I answer every email. So you can obviously I'm not that famous because otherwise I've never been able to do it. [01:39:51] This group of children when I got back here, [01:39:55] these 40 children had written letters about the story. And I want to know why didn't tell Scott a story and Islam. And I wrote to each child individually. And I sent the letters back to them. And I thank them all. And I kept the letters for a year. And I think after that well, you know, I hit my now. Right? But what happened is the teacher emailed me and said, we just never expected you. We thought you might do a blanket one. Every child has got the letter. And then he said, so all the other children now want to do it? And I said no. I said these ones did it. They didn't know they were going to get on later they did it. Now the other ones are going to expect a letter and what this was [01:40:42] was the surprise for those children. [01:40:46] And one, we were all sort of said to me but you're in Scotland. Why didn't you do Scottish stories? Because Wouldn't that be best. And I wrote to her and I said only the Scots can tell the best stories from Scotland. I hope when you grow up, that you will come to my country out there or New Zealand and you will tell a scholar stories because we need to hear them from the Scots people. And teacher sent me another know randomly and sort of said, This little girl is crying and She's so happy. And she's going to learn all the stories. And she's going to tell them to you she's going to write to. And she wrote a story to me. And I said I knew she was right. And I said to the teacher, [01:41:32] of course later write the story. [01:41:36] But tell her, I'm going to hold it till she comes here. And then I'm going to magically give it back to her. And then I'm going to introduce her. And she's going to tell the story to it now. But I'm crying. If we can get people, an audience are your guests. And if they have taken the time to get, Look, you've got millions of dollars worth of film worth millions, billions televisions doing great work, they have taken the time to come and see you. Some of them have meant they've had to get babysitters or they've had a job a gentle a long way to come. They are guests. The most I've ever performed for at one stage is 10,000. The least I've performed for is five. And they were all my guests. And that's how I treat when I'm on when I do camera work when I do anything. The people that are paying to see me if I don't treat them as guests that are not worth being there. I should not be there. Because I consider myself a worker and a worker for the people. And although people sort of say is that you you get limousines and everything was it? Yeah, not every day. I get them and I'm films. As you certainly come back to us when you get into the popper and you get into your little blue uniform. And you're doing the dishes. You know, it's you know, when I'm living in hotels and all the dishes have done but I know [01:43:11] what I am I know where if you know what I mean. [01:43:14] And the only complaints that people haven't gotten in hotels is that I make my dad's I make my bed every day. [01:43:25] I make my bed and I do the dishes. I keep everything clean. [01:43:30] We paid to do this please don't do it. [01:43:37] Because my my mom, one of the things she did say to me is [01:43:42] you're not better than anyone. People. I'm better than you. [01:43:46] You make sure you treat everyone well, because I was a cleaner. She'd say that. I was a cleaner. And I know what it's like when people look down on you and [01:44:00] hopefully I maintain it.

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