Jan Logie - Rainbow Politicians

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[00:00:00] This program is brought to you by pride in zero.com. [00:00:05] So how long have you been an MP? Oh, that must be about 10 months now. [00:00:11] You've been out the whole time. Yeah, yeah. I guess I was out. You know, [00:00:18] it's always that thing. I guess you're out to people. [00:00:23] And when you come out, particularly if you look like I do, so I'm sorry, I'm sure I wasn't out for lots of people. But at least my maiden speech was making a very clear [00:00:33] statement, and that that's when you publicly came out as [00:00:37] a gift to everyone in Parliament here. [00:00:40] Yeah. And what was your job before you became an MP? [00:00:43] I was I'm a development manager of a research group at a tiger University. [00:00:49] Right. Yeah. So your private life changed considerably after being in the public eye? Do you think of that transition? [00:00:56] I got some interesting. Yeah, I guess. So. [00:01:02] I'm still kind of coming to grips with it of whether it has or whether it hasn't or [00:01:06] Yeah. Yeah. How has [00:01:10] people people knowing that your career affected the way that you've been treated? Inside parliament and outside? [00:01:19] I'm, [00:01:20] I guess you never know what you don't know. And that kind of? [00:01:28] I don't know if people treat me differently. Because I don't know how they treat me otherwise. [00:01:36] The [00:01:39] outside of Parliament, it's been, it's mostly comes up quite, I think, quite sadly. [00:01:46] When people ask me, so you've got the Pacific Islands portfolio. And you've got the rainbow portfolio de thickness a conflict via? [00:01:57] Yeah, which is really sad. And so that's not realistic much about me, it's more [00:02:02] people's perceptions that there's a conflict. [00:02:07] really unclear with these ads? [00:02:10] Within parliament, I think. [00:02:13] Yeah, I actually just have it within the great news. We've got such a strong kind of human rights focus, and justice focus that that isn't an issue, and we can you know, kind of make jokes and play about things in why the parliament, I guess there's a, there's a bit of a sense that people have a sense that they have to be a bit careful. [00:02:41] Yeah. And you just said that grants have quite a human rights focus. Do you think that your sexuality affected with the people voted for you? [00:02:51] Well, I don't know, hopefully. And I remember talking to my mom about this, when I had to be interviewed to become a candidate for the greens, and you have to pass this kind of things, you have to disclose if there's any kind of secrets, you know, in your family, but I had to disclose my dad, his spirit. But and my mother was like, acid, did you tell me earlier? My mom, you know, actually, in the greens, it's not something to disclose. It's probably more that you put as, you know, promotion point, because it's about representing different communities, which is like, [00:03:28] but Well, what do you think about for the general public? And it was a really interesting kind of discussion, because for who it still, that perception and society that it's something you would have to disclose that there may be kind of negative consequences to the rest of the green? So it's actually I think it is a positive because it's about furthering our diversity? [00:03:51] And do you think that you have faith in homophobia that you wouldn't otherwise have faced if you've been in public? I mean, I know it's, [00:04:04] I don't know, years, actually. [00:04:07] In I think [00:04:10] the [00:04:12] And particularly, I think, maybe with this position is to I've predicted kind of two kinds of foam a phobia that they [00:04:21] people just not connected, not approaching, not connected. And because they'd be seeing me is just not relatable, because they have their husbands phobia. And so that's not something I'm going to be able to know about. Unless I hear it secondhand from other people. We're not broken through that. [00:04:44] So I suspect there is an element of that, maybe. But I haven't seen that directly, because you don't see that directly. And then the more obvious direct stuff I haven't experienced yet, and I expect is more. And it's I think, I'm likely to come out against because I am a lesbian without children, without partner. So I think I'm probably there is the potential to get better tech, particularly when I've got women's portfolio talking about children. [00:05:18] But yeah, um, have there been any positive experiences that have come from you being queer out in Parliament? And [00:05:27] well, from my perspective, yeah, a lot. Because I get to, I get to [00:05:32] talk about [00:05:35] issues. And in there was a national Patty MP, who [00:05:41] is [00:05:44] been approached by somebody in his community who's wanting kind of action around transitions. And he was saying, like, he recognized, he probably wasn't the person to do that, to be able to do that. But he referred her to me, so that we can work together and do and that's half into six there. I just think that's really exciting. And also just [00:06:08] to be clear, and permanent, be up to, you know, have that awareness to look for [00:06:16] what it will mean for our communities when we're looking at, you know, identity legislation as an example. And then I can add that to, you know, the debates and parliament of that feels without any, [00:06:31] do you know, of any not out queer in this? [00:06:41] Yeah, yeah. Can you can you think of any reasons why anyone would not want to disclose? Yeah, [00:06:46] um, [00:06:48] I guess, historical. Also, [00:06:54] I can see, if a party doesn't have a human rights portfolio for party [00:07:00] still doesn't have a human rights platform, then it's still all about contesting [00:07:09] these ideas rather than [00:07:13] even like we see in the two major parties, as an example, and the position around marriage equality, you know, that there's, there's not a fundamental platform. So therefore, if you're out in those parties, you're aligning yourself with a group within the party and and not aligning yourself with others, clearly, so I could see if somebody was in a particular camp that was conservative, or, you know, [00:07:43] the numbers didn't stick up for them. I seems really sad. And [00:07:49] I'm not sure how people do it. But I could see why. [00:07:53] And are you glad you came out? [00:07:55] But I guess it would be too weird to me not to. [00:08:02] That would be really strange. Because it's, you know, part of what I want to do, and as part of who I am, and I've, I've lived in places before where I haven't been out. And that's it's a surreal experience, I think. [00:08:16] Um, do you think that queer people are underrepresented at home? In New Zealand? And [00:08:23] well, I would like to say, more trends, people and mF helmet. [00:08:31] And [00:08:34] I haven't actually done the figures about whether we're [00:08:38] because it's, it's nice to see that at the moment, at least, you know, that we've got the rainbow caucus across labor and the grains and that we're able to because it's not just about the numbers, it's about the willingness to actually represent our community. [00:08:58] And that feels quite good. But it's not across all parties. And ideally, that should be they should be, yeah. [00:09:04] What do you think what has to change in your feeling for that to occur? [00:09:09] And I think it's I mean, by the change that we're seeing with the marriage equality from seven years before civil unions debate, [00:09:21] I guess it is that sense of mainstreaming that, [00:09:26] as much as I, my personal and political values are that being queer as a radical, and being out as a way to challenge the status quo in the world and make the world a better [00:09:40] place? [00:09:42] I guess I have to allow for some people being conservative and being queer might be [00:09:48] also positive, [00:09:51] but emits about mainstreaming. So yeah. [00:09:55] I'm Jason gets more difficult to be in the underrepresented group that queer people or the underrepresented group that is women? [00:10:07] That's a really interesting question i. [00:10:14] And to be honest, at the moment, I think parliament is more antagonistic towards women. [00:10:22] Why do you think that is? I think, [00:10:25] if you [00:10:30] look at part of the attacks against labor were around Helen Clark and this concept of nanny state, and that was a very gendered attack on the government that had a lot of support from the public. And [00:10:47] the power brokers within the government are all male, regardless of who's sitting in the front being told the power brokers are male, and [00:10:58] I think [00:11:03] so it is a very an increasingly masculine environment. And, you know, we have rape jokes have made and people feel really comfortable. Some people within Parliament seem really comfortable with outright misogyny. Whereas even if we looked at the debate around [00:11:24] marriage equality, again, being that the extreme homophobia was couched as other people think this. Right, which is a really fantastic progression. You know, [00:11:40] but [00:11:43] yeah, and I'm not quite sure I understand it, to be honest of why there's those [00:11:49] seems to have been progress here and regression here. [00:11:52] What do you think would have to change in New Zealand for women to be equally represented and positions of powers me to say? [00:12:01] Well, a huge number of things actually would have to address the levels of domestic violence in the country, we would have to [00:12:10] share unpaid labor, equally, women would have to be, you know, enabled to make choices around parenting and paid work. We were made to actually have honest conversations and be willing to shift cultural representations of women. [00:12:37] Just simple things like that. [00:12:39] And you think that's a harder task, then shifting people's views or perceptions of the way people? know, [00:12:49] it's interesting because I'm an analyst, I haven't actually thought through these questions before about looking at that comparison. And because I also see, lot of homophobia is gender based. It's around gender conformity, if you look at, you know, a lot of the verbal texts of round [00:13:13] homophobic bullying of men that's around nonconformity to the male stereotype. So and similarly, for women, I think a lot of the kind of lesbian abuse comes in when women are saying not to be ascribing, you know, X amount of gender appropriate way. So I'm not quite sure actually, how we have managed to make seem to make progress. [00:13:45] And the gender roles seem to be more entrenched in the neighbor. [00:13:50] And so what do you think about the wording on the Human Rights Act when it comes to gender discrimination? And we need, [00:13:57] I think that's one of the things I'm looking at it actually, because it's very specific. It's and we've, the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, my committee that oversees that, which New Zealand's a signatory to [00:14:14] has been raising issues in terms of that human rights act with us for a while, as well as [00:14:22] the fact that our Bill of Rights Act doesn't have privacy, and there are laws so that, you know, we've got this bill of rights, but actually, we can overrule it pretty much anytime we want to legislation, which we seem to be doing increasingly so. [00:14:36] I think we need to broaden make gender a basis of for non discrimination, because it's not at the moment. [00:14:43] Yeah. [00:14:45] So you said before the civil union verse marriage equality debate, just for the record, where do you stand on that, [00:14:53] and where the greens, it's a platform for us to support marriage equality. And, you know, it's a huge rights, equality under the law issue for us, [00:15:04] and queer adoption. And [00:15:08] that's, and Kevin, I'm sure spoke more about this, that he's developing a member's bill to go into the ballot. I [00:15:16] it's, for me, I, I'm not even comfortable having the conversation about queer adoption, personally, [00:15:23] outside of the context of needing to completely reform our adoption, or because it said created and treats children as chattels. And that's not something I want any part of. [00:15:35] And at the same time, I want all of my friends who quit appearance to be able to have the role as parents acknowledged properly. [00:15:49] So what kind of support do you get from the queer community? [00:15:56] in [00:15:58] the lead up the election, my friends organized a pink and green cabaret fundraiser, but me what has, you know, drag queens and kings and songs and others, and it was, like, it was so fantastic. It was, you know, it was the biggest thing ever, really. [00:16:23] And [00:16:26] just [00:16:30] when, I guess people [00:16:33] be all kind of just that feedback or big out to go to things and feel [00:16:40] as if I'm part of, because, you know, the weird thing of Parliament is it feels like and there's a real and general public of politicians will slink them off. And it's politicians as others so the community the my support is to feel like I'm just part of the community. [00:16:58] And I'm so who you're creating, [00:17:01] like, we're [00:17:01] heroes [00:17:05] by this thing called petitions or not, I'm [00:17:10] probably wouldn't be politicians generally. Um, I think Georgina buyer was is [00:17:21] Elizabeth Kilkenny, I think she's doing she's just been so so solid and community, she's [00:17:31] doing great work around tackles halfway and re uncovering their history. [00:17:39] And New Zealand that I just think is really important. [00:17:44] There's so many people doing so many amazing things. [00:17:49] And yet, how do you cope with some of the anti oma sexual and anti quit statements that happen in the debate and gender? [00:18:02] Mike, he says, [00:18:03] in [00:18:05] his in that context of some days, I just completely washes over me. And I'm just like, [00:18:12] yeah, [00:18:14] I'll do my work on my iPad and and tune in when I'm, when I made two. And then there are other days where [00:18:25] and this is, I guess, more around some of the when the [00:18:30] because I sorry, thank you look like. And there's that like those one of kind of statements, to me a part of the game that people feel like they're playing. And that doesn't, that stuff doesn't feel real to me, actually. And so I find that quite easy to dismiss, when what I find harder is the substantive issues around, you know, [00:18:58] with the welfare of activism around homophobia, but or the dismissal by the Minister of corrections around safety of trends, presence. And that, [00:19:14] that stuff, I find my China, because [00:19:19] it's actually about people's lives. And that's not again, and yeah. [00:19:26] And do you have any thoughts on how we can listen to bullying and suicide rates and queer youth? [00:19:35] I think [00:19:40] we do. I mean, actually, you know, Mary Richards report [00:19:44] that Kevin sponsored and the last him of Parliament get good has given us some pretty good directions in terms of what needs to happen in schools. And what was that sort of? [00:19:55] Um, I guess [00:19:56] it's around having some of the alliances in school, kind of more proactive around visibility, [00:20:05] and anti bullying processes and making sure that [00:20:11] actually, that's that we specify, and we clear around that, you know, we've seen, and we're looking at doing, Kevin at the moment, with Maria order saying schools, because ordering erase reports of schools, because schools are required to have policies, and they probably do, but definitely mean one knows that there. And so we're looking, I guess it's, [00:20:42] yeah, there's a whole lot of things that can be done within school environments and wider net. [00:20:48] I think we need to do more work around promoting diversity. [00:20:54] And what about in terms of education and health classes in school? Do you think that something that that will lead to change? I would imagine, I'm not sure, actually what's going on in them at the moment? [00:21:06] What are they completely hit trust exist? Yeah. Well, yeah, that would be a good place to start at. And I mean, that's one that's working in youth health. Like some schools, like I do think the government does need to get more active in some schools. We weren't allowed into the school because we promoted a service that was confidential. And there was enough to [00:21:34] get us [00:21:36] banned from speaking of the school, because they had so much fear [00:21:43] around, you know, the young people's behavior. [00:21:49] And wasn't even, you know, there was no consciousness of the young people safety in that model. [00:21:57] So, what can the queer community do to support queer politicians? [00:22:03] I guess, engage, engage in politics. [00:22:08] And I understand why people don't. [00:22:12] And in some ways, you know, [00:22:14] we do [00:22:17] supporting politicians as, as a great as a good thing, but equally, you know, like, [00:22:25] there are a lot of people don't really important jobs as well. [00:22:28] We need support, and I think, [00:22:34] but I think the shit, I don't think we should have support and ourselves actually go back to that, just because we're queer and empowerment, I think we should be supportive for doing and the things that need to be done. [00:22:49] Yeah. And, um, what do you think we can do to encourage young queer people to be interested in politics? [00:22:56] Well, I'd be interested in your view on that more, actually. Because for me, this is I cannot. [00:23:05] Some of the conversations I've had with young people who have blown my mind, and I've found incredibly inspiring [00:23:11] about what they see is the gap between what's important to them, and what they hear coming out of Parliament, or, you know, being translated by the media is coming out of Parliament, and what, what's happening here, and that there's this myth of get what what is in that gap? Some of the things they were talking to some and this was kind of more disenfranchised young people, but was like, I'm [00:23:35] kind of, you know, just this perception of famous and their worldview, just being a really different worldview. And suddenly, you're not really talking about, you know, tell Marty and [00:23:49] and really just say made weren't here in any conversations in Parliament that reflected that [00:23:54] kind of [00:23:57] look like you and some local sessions I hear from young people around [00:24:04] just gender diversity, and just a real really, I think, exciting [00:24:10] radicalism. But [00:24:16] nowhere near those conversations really, and, but it would be exciting to think about ways we can bridge that gap. Because otherwise, Parliament's going to become this irrelevant fringe institution that, you know, makes people's lives harder because people don't understand what people's actual lives are like. [00:24:40] And so you think that's the direction Parliament should be going in a more radical? [00:24:46] Well, it's not necessarily even parliament, because I don't think you know, the young people I talked to a necessarily representative of [00:24:53] young people. [00:24:55] But it's about making sure that, that those views being heard, like that there's a place empowerment for people's views to be reflected, and contest it, you know, because I do get, you know, that there's a whole bunch of heavily conservative, you know, [00:25:14] or, you know, [00:25:17] whatever. [00:25:19] Young people and people who are also engaged, but it's, we've got to bridge that gap somehow.

This page features computer generated text of the source audio - it is not a transcript. The Artificial Intelligence Text is provided to help users when searching for keywords or phrases. The text has not been manually checked for accuracy against the original audio and will contain many errors.