Rachel Hoskin - Butch: a photographic exploration

This page features computer generated text of the source audio - it is not a transcript. The Artificial Intelligence Text is provided to help users when searching for keywords or phrases. The text has not been manually checked for accuracy against the original audio and will contain many errors. If you would like to help create a transcript, please volunteer to listen to the audio and correct the AI Text - get in contact for more details.

[00:00:00] This program is brought to you by pride in zero.com. [00:00:05] The exhibition came from a academic research project that I'm currently doing. And it's more about the perceptions of what woman and how they may have changed within society. So it's so realistically what I tried to do is take photos of Butch woman and a more possibly had or stand offish pose, and then another one that's a little bit softer, showing the more [00:00:34] relatable side and put them side by side and the exhibition to say what the perceptions might be from the public. [00:00:44] How many women did you have involved [00:00:46] in these photos, there was teen including myself. [00:00:49] And the exhibition was up for how long, just [00:00:52] over a month. And so part of this was the always gonna do some public perception study, while the exhibition was up tomato, or the problem being was that would probably just hit a slightly off target market and a museum. So people who are coming through with generally more receptive to artwork, and so the perception might have been a bit flawed. So. So that part of the study is going to be done separately now. Sorry, the question was just settling for itself. It might be some visibility for book, [00:01:24] right. And so well, we are the expressions, that word the reactions, you are getting to it. [00:01:30] Must the reactions were positive. But they were from LGBT q i community, mostly the so the responses that I was getting was probably mostly from the LGBT community, and the staff it tomorrow as well. So they were positive, but again, probably not the responses that I was needing to find out, which is more about the general general society views. Right? [00:01:54] What what why are you doing that? Why [00:01:56] are you doing Sorry, it's someone that I'm interested in. Being Butch myself, I am really interested in how the perceptions may have changed. I also know that [00:02:07] and society today, it is much easier for young woman to transition. And some participants that I have interviewed have mentioned about how Butch identity may become extinct in the near future in the near future. And that really interests me at interests me about how Butch woman see themselves and how the public see Butch woman as well. And just the whole thing is just fascinating. And I think it was really worth the study to put in to see if perceptions of society of changing towards sportswoman identity. [00:02:42] When you say changing what, what, in what sort of time for me to [00:02:45] Yeah, so that's the interesting part because I haven't really gone back and head look at what perception as as just been anecdotal. And the anecdotal is around, you know, when I was growing up back in the 70s, and 80s. Age would die like, you know, the diesel direct the butcher, like the, you know, that sort of those sort of tombs, those derogatory terms back then showed public perception of what woman not, is a positive thing. And yet [00:03:18] quite a few those terms of reclaimed to [00:03:20] correct reclaim teams, and I love that they've already claimed tunes, and I love them, and I love those tunes. And that's why I wanted to see but the reclaimed teams within the LGBT q i community inside this still perhaps have a negative connotation for those outside of that community. And so they can still be used in a derogatory way. But I really came to see if general society look at what woman images and still do that whole. Or that you know, these are like, or she should be a man or a woman is it a man but their whole negative reaction to it, I'm really interested to see if there is still around the next door presence in society. [00:03:55] Right. And so that's what you'll be measuring through interviews. [00:03:59] So on actually doing soothing now, so so it'll be through Survey Monkey, and it will be, it's about collecting responses to so what what is going to be as we're going to show, I'm going to show the, the phone, Butch, a hard harder image, and a soft image but not next to each other. So it's going to be randomized. So that so and then it's going to be a locket scale. So people will be able to go in and start with I feel really positive towards that image or a negative towards them. And then at the end, it talks about where they have photographic experience, because it will come into the their interpretation of the LGBT. Q Why? If they have friends in the LGBT q i, all those questions have come at the end because that can [00:04:44] that can sway the responses. So it'll be quite interesting for when I actually write up the paper on it. How that how we say that perception? If it has changed, or will help might have changed, change? [00:05:00] What's your what's your starting point? So my team and my [00:05:03] so my benchmark is back in and when butch lesbian or Butch woman as a as a negative thing as a it's a [00:05:15] societal views from back in the 80s. were booked woman model, you know, that whole diesel right there negative connotation to it that. So they all want to see if it become more positive over time. [00:05:27] How are you selecting participants [00:05:28] that's so that's so that's what I'm working through at the moment. So the participants will probably be selected via boosted Facebook posts, mostly because that way you can target a specific seat of an audience or you can have your audience sit out. So that it's not just one group of people, or one portion of society, that I can get a whole lot in there. It's running through the the UK research subcommittee at the moment, just make sure that these are ethical issues [00:06:02] around it. And what is your What are your studies Pretty soon, [00:06:05] so so that will that's just part of PBR if stuff so. So that's the performance based research funds for government. So, so that's so basically, in my role as Head of School for creative industries that you call, I'm required to do research, I have that under my responsibility, degrees and master's degrees. So as part of it, I really need to make sure that I'm active researcher, and this is the research project that I have decided to do this year, changes every year, I do different projects every year, but this was the one that I'm currently working on in the PBR if writings that needs to be [00:06:47] has to be an output that has been quality assured. And so by having my exhibition it to model, it has been approved to be it tomorrow, I have to go through it because process and and stuff to get it and he and so that means it has been quality issue with it, and then expect and what do you hope will come from your your research and your paper, I will more visibility for Butch woman I want, I really want to have more Butch woman. And you know, I was inspired not only by your work, but work that's been happening and San Francisco to do more of this work. Because around Butch photography is absolutely much photography, Butch, Butch imagery, Butch woman imagery, it's just I think more visibility will help people to young young woman to make that decision of whether they need to transition or they want to live as a woman, because previously, I had pressures growing up that that question whether I should be transitioning as a butch woman myself, and it was just a social pressures that made me question it. I love being but women but former being a woman, that's my identity, and I love it. And I wouldn't change it for anything. But I can see societal pressures can influence people in certain directions. And I want to make sure that having Butch woman it's visible, shows that there is an identity there, and that that's an option. [00:08:18] So because I think they kind of two issues. Really, I think there's there is a burning for some people around the transitional path that that's, that's something they did that isn't there. Thinking. However, it's, it's, for me, it would be if people are transitioning. And they go through that if they're finding their true identity. And they may have come from a place of being bought or fame Actually, yeah, that's right. Yes. Parents, my friends. And in there is there is more of the opening up the option. And it's not an easy road to take. Not so it's I'm I I would thank you everyone who is going into into transitioning [00:09:07] necessary as putting aside being a butch woman, because that's not what they ever were. [00:09:13] That's right. Yeah, no, absolutely true. But there's been a lot of stuff that's inspired me recently in the news, we are not a New Zealand and other places, but for men are forced to transition. And wow. So this is an the Philippines. So there's been a news article recently about the in the Philippines. And there was an interview down with I now a young man who said that he was forced into transitioning and doesn't want to be a main wants to be able to woman but wasn't allowed to in this society. And it's really nice to save a New Zealand. I think that's assignment New Zealand. I don't but I think it's a worldwide issue. I think that you know, you sure that that's a cultural, there's a cultural thing, but it is happening. It can happen anywhere. It can be pressures from from anywhere. [00:09:57] Yeah, I mean, okay, I feel it and New Zealand, that. There, there has been, there has been a bit of an attitude over the years towards people who have transitioned where it is, it is sort of like, Oh, you know, what, can't you just be bought white? What are you doing? You're just like booked flight? Is this one team of us. And I think it's more of an opening of the conversation to say, actually, that, you know, this is an option someone is able to take now. And they they don't have to identify is a lesbian woman, so on. Yeah, if it's not true to them, [00:10:33] I completely I completely agree with it. And I always know that there's a scale, this there's a sliding scale of you know, I need to transition, this is who I am. And this is life threatening for me, I need to be who I am, and, and others who find that pressure. And it's really interesting, having been talking to the participants from my study, who think that you know, Butch identity is going to, is going to become extinct, and other young Butch woman who's who say that they want Butch to be more visible, and society. And in here there is making sure that people know that that's the that that culture that our culture is the and it was really interesting seeing that. Because the woman in my study, identify as much woman and a very, very proud to be Butch woman in so that the history, the experiences, and the reason why they weren't participating in that study was really interesting to me. And it really resonated with me as well, because it was part of my reasoning, surveilling the study, [00:11:35] they all had to say to you, they all had to confirm with you that there are Butch woman to be in this. [00:11:41] Correct. So because so so here's the thing, I put a call out for Butch woman, woman who identify as but in so you know, there was a lot of there's a lot of people tagging others and my posts and saying, you know, this would be great for you. And they're like, No, I'm not Butch. And I might appear to others that they might be but don't self identify as much. And so that that's where I wanted to make sure that the woman in my study, self identify as Butch. And it was really important. [00:12:10] I had the same issue with Butch on bush. Yeah. And we're, [00:12:16] we're, my photos. Ended up being about people who identified his books, or felt there was Satan and sports. And no, that wasn't actually a gender thing. It was butcher itself. Yeah. And then it turned out to be most mostly women. Mostly, it's been women. But not all. And and I had to swap Exactly. It's kind of same as you from going approaching people who I thought were Butch and happier to be identified as it and getting brilliant. asleep. Yeah, that process to more of you contact me. That's right. [00:12:53] Yeah. And I realized it quite quickly, that I wasn't going to go out to a woman and say, Oh, your books come into my study, because very much even though they might perceive to be bought from society, they don't identify as being books themselves. And I wanted to be very, very clear that in my study, these will woman who self identify as but from a [00:13:16] Western concept to a [00:13:17] Yeah, very much so. Yeah, it really is. Yeah. [00:13:22] Yeah. So on that and my one identified is why he needed tour. Yeah, rather than is yeast [00:13:29] yet [00:13:30] night, so much more sense. For her. [00:13:34] It's of you in terms of the exhibition, being on it to Manoa and having [00:13:42] a lot of LGBT coming through. That must be really cool. Like a visibility. And Pamela North would have been the first book the expression here, I think, yeah, [00:13:54] what turned out to be in a really cool month, because here, we had Rebecca swarm was who actually was a wound exhibition, which is just absolutely flooring. It's just so good. And we had also that, you know, the top ones in, you know, fell at the same time is the is the National museums conference, and we hit the lesbian museum here, in it was just odd know, it seemed to be least being mapped it to monitor and but it was just, it was just brilliant. You know, just everything fell into place. Yeah. Because? [00:14:26] Because we're at the opening up the top 20. Especially I know that yes, that jobs and Linda came down to say [00:14:32] yes, yes, I did, they came to have a look through the exhibition. And it was actually looking at more of the finer detail of the images rather than over all these a butch woman, but the one participant who had an imitator and I love her on her arm, and they were absolutely fascinated by the context of all the maybe it was more of the displacement between the data and the softness of potatoes compared to the way she looked. The hardness of the image. [00:15:02] describe some of the other images. I know a couple of friends. Yeah, I know. And then they look like they're playing with adult Oh, [00:15:07] you don't [00:15:08] want there was a vacuum cleaner, and no one else. I didn't notice it at the time. And I put it up into Manoa and one of our staff alike. And White No, it's not, it's very quickly, and I swear it's a vacuum cleaner. But actually it works either way, I guess. [00:15:25] But, but it was really quite cool, because that participant identified as soft Butch, which is what I identify with as well. And I really liked the idea of having that subservient image. And the that was on in contrast to a bit of a harder look that she had, and it was awesome. And in other participants wanted to be seen with the animals. So the dogs were in the end, it was a more of a softer approach. And then they have a slightly harder how to look. And these images were done in a way that the participants wanted to be seen. So I think didn't necessarily direct them. Although, to be fair, some of the some of the participants to me how, you know, how do you, you know, how am I gonna? How do I look how know might just don't smile, it's going to work for you, it's fine. And then all you cool. And then and then now, I saw I did, I did a lot of shirts and willing to and I did some pumps north, I did some in Hamilton and some of the Oakland and the participants will really open to very open to the heart of softer contrast of those images. And some of them that I did one here pumps north and she's a young butch lesbian, and she wanted to be seen because she's an accountant, and she wanted to be seen in a corporate world. So she was dressed in a suit, and wanted to be seen as you know, this isn't this is an option, you know, you know, Butch woman and a successful corporate role. And she want to be seen that way. And that was really cool as well. [00:16:51] What What do you see is is had in softer? What does it mean to you? [00:16:55] So that so what that means to me, and what the participants were trying to get across is that contrast between a softer, more approachable look, and a harder more standoffish, kind of, [00:17:07] you know, if I'm not smiling, some people could could like that I look hard. That's, you know, a perception could be my perception that I'm predicting, perhaps, but so it's, it's sometimes I feel like, you know, we can predict ourselves to be harder. And sometimes we can predict yourself to be softer and more approachable. [00:17:26] So how did thing? Tough? [00:17:28] Tough? tough, tough. So, so yeah, that's that's how I that's how I was wanting to say those two images. And that contrast between them. I wanted to see it is, you know, we're not always looking that we're not always looking at tough, we're not always tough that we we do have our soft sides. And that's part of that was part of that, that duality of those images as well. [00:17:53] Do you see it had a had a softer is in terms of masculine to feminine, so [00:17:58] it can have it can be related to that. So that's, that's fully dependent on the reception theory, I think it fully dependent on how the audience or viewer wants to see those images. I when we photographed them, the participant was happy to be seen. And it softer, more approachable role as well as but we didn't mention it as a feminine masculine. What that wasn't mentioned at all, and that when we discussed it with the participants, but but it could be seen as that. And absolutely, yeah. Yeah. [00:18:33] Did fame identity come up through any of this? [00:18:36] No. Not mentioned once. Yeah. Not mentioned once at all. And I spent quite a bit of time with the participants as well. And it mostly in their homes or wherever they wanted to be to have those images done in not wants to FIM identity or FIM discussions come up those all around the bush identity and why they want to participate and how they want to be seen [00:19:00] you. [00:19:01] So you do you paper? [00:19:04] Well, I hope to get it published and a number of different places, depending on the outcomes, you know, some of them might be but more neutral than I expect. But it's still an outcome. So hopefully get it published. I've had I've had been approached by the trans community and, and the game our community as well to do similar studies. And those areas, and I'm absolutely open to that. I the research is funded by Yuko and it's just a matter of me putting on you know, a research application form to just extend the study into other areas. [00:19:37] So people will be able to access your research Koreans at some point yeah, [00:19:41] absolutely. They will be yet I'll be able to put those in have those available. [00:19:48] They will I need to find out we're they will be but that'll be made public. [00:19:54] The findings that the articles will be my publicist, 2018 know this will be the end of the shame of to [00:20:02] get into 2017 Is there any website or anything where people can go now to look at what you're doing [00:20:07] at the moment? No, that will probably be set up a little later on. Once I have the research and the data collected to the do those findings.

This page features computer generated text of the source audio - it is not a transcript. The Artificial Intelligence Text is provided to help users when searching for keywords or phrases. The text has not been manually checked for accuracy against the original audio and will contain many errors.