Parliament: second reading of the Criminal Records (Expungement of Convictions for Historical Homosexual Offences) Bill

This page features computer generated text of the source audio - it is not a transcript. The Artificial Intelligence Text is provided to help users when searching for keywords or phrases. The text has not been manually checked for accuracy against the original audio and will contain many errors. If you would like to help create a transcript, please volunteer to listen to the audio and correct the AI Text - get in contact for more details.

[00:00:01] I call on government over the dynamic duo. [00:00:04] criminal records expansion of convictions for historical have a sexual offences Bill [00:00:07] Second Reading. [00:00:10] The Honorable Andrew [00:00:12] primary the criminal records experiment of convictions for historical having sexual offenses will be now read a second time. [00:00:21] On the this bill demonstrates the government's ongoing commitment to right the wrongs of the past for those who were convicted of historical homosexual offenses, prior to the homosexual Law Reform Act of 1996. I like to protect acknowledge the work of my predecessor as Minister of Justice, the Honorable Amy Adams, who introduced this bill, [00:00:44] originally to Parliament. And [00:00:47] initially she put it through the house. I want to also thank members of the Justice Committee for the consideration of the bill. The committee received 37 submissions, and has recommended the bill proceed with some amendments. Almost every submission expressed clear support for [00:01:05] the team from [00:01:07] the committee hood team, our submissions, and I'd like to thank those submitters for sharing these stories. Many submitters commanded the bow for introducing a novel scheme, and we're positive about the change that this bill would bring. The committee has recommended a small number of changes, which will ensure that the bill achieves its intended purpose. [00:01:30] Behind the Scenes will reform act of 1986 decriminalized sexual conduct between consenting miles age 16 years and over. The rights to be free from discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation was like you're recognized, and the Human Rights Act of 1993. Allowing historical convictions for high mistakes when the fences to remain on a person's criminal history perpetuates the stigma that those convictions carry. It should never be beyond this house, to recognize that Moore's past and earlier generations with different values and more rise applied, [00:02:09] can have consequences, which it is in the power of this house to provide redress for the purpose of this, though, is to address the ongoing stigma, prejudice, and other negative effects arising from a conviction for historical find a safe sort of things by creating a statutory scheme for a convicted person or a representative on the behalf if that person is deceased, to apply for the conviction to be expunged. If the application is successful, that conviction will not appear on a criminal history chip. And the person will not be required to disclose information about the expunged conviction for any purpose. And indeed, anybody who'd been discloses their conviction, we're not authorized to do so commit an offense end of the year. [00:03:00] scheme applies to crimes in 1961 offenses that were repealed by the homosexual reformat 1986 and the pre deceased or offenses, under the crimes that 99. [00:03:13] The bill provides for the secretary of justice to consider with your applications for expands would meet the statutory taste, the taste is that the behavior would no longer constitute an offense under today's law. That takes account of the possibility that some of those convictions [00:03:30] related to [00:03:32] genuinely criminal conduct and the nature of predatory fences or assaults that went beyond merely consensual conduct between [00:03:42] between mean, [00:03:44] the committee recommended changes to improve a fence provisions to better align with other legislation and to ensure that people are not put under pressure to disclose the expanded convictions. A further change is the inclusion of a provision, which makes it explicit that expands with other conviction does not authorize all require the destruction of criminal records of expands to convictions. Other changes are relatively minor, technical, some small amendments to waiting have been recommended to line the boat with the language used in the public records in 2005. [00:04:22] This those papers is to provide for an experiment scheme to reduce prejudice, stigma, and other negative effects arising from a conviction for historical trauma sexual offense, the bill and powers those convicted in the representatives by providing a simple, low cost and effective way to right the wrongs of the past with the committee's recommended changes, and confident that the bill will more effectively achieve these objectives. And I conclude by addressing one other point that was commonly raised in the submissions, and that is the issue of compensation. [00:04:58] The committee necessarily can see did that issue of compensation. And then he concluded that it was not possible to consider or to recommend a scheme that would provide a compensation that would be easy to apply or streamline and take account of the variety of different circumstances and what the original features were committed, and they would now be expunged. [00:05:22] And so the [00:05:24] government at least we're not be providing a will not be entertaining a compensation regime, as a consequence of this book, Mr. Speaker on their faces, and with those comments, I can mean this filter to answer. [00:05:37] The question is that can be a great tool [00:05:41] to speak. [00:05:41] And [00:05:42] Amy Adams, [00:05:43] the speaker, I'm very proud to take a call and the second reading on the criminal records, management of convictions historical have a sexual offences bill. And I say I'm very proud because I do take an enormous sense of pride in that this piece work came about under my tenure as Minister of Justice and under the national parties, period of governments. And I want to acknowledge the current minister Andrew, this will obviously for continuing the work with the same degree of commitment and urgency actually to get at a place that we certainly had on this side of the house. [00:06:18] There are that many opportunities [00:06:20] and this has where you get the chance to do something that just simply fields a very innate level, right. And this bill feels like that, to me, it's always felt like that to me. And I also want to put on record that it's one of those equally rare chances in this house to do something. I hope continue to be collectively I sit in the event, it's been the experience to date, but that is absolutely above party politics. Now those of us have been members of this house, but sometime know that there are more occasions and the public probably see where we do work, actually for what is simply the right thing to do it in the best interests of this country, irrespective of party lines. And this piece of legislation has certainly been one of those and will certainly stand out in my memory. For that reason. I want to acknowledge the work of the select committee as the minister has done, I had the privilege of sitting on that Select Committee while it was considering this bill and and most of its consideration, and again, on the select committee and acknowledged the chair is the rabbit hole who chaired the committee through that process. Again, sir, it was incredibly heartening to see a group of committee members who actually handed in a bit of a peck visa v. The officials really there was a committee member sort of on one side all lining up with a very similar view of what we wanted to see happen. And and on occasion, running up against, perhaps some drafters and some officials who hadn't quite understood exactly how we wanted it to work. And I want to just record and this contribution, that's actually the members of the committee representing members across the house, we're really clear. When this bill talked about being an expansion that scheme. We wanted it to be an expanded scheme. I that because conviction was as as had never happened, not a scheme whereby the convictions still remained on the record, but everyone was just directed to disregard it. And to us on the committee, that was a really important distinction. And we believed to the semesters and those of those affected by this legislation, and incredibly important distinction to make. [00:08:24] This was always to be more than Suddenly, the clean slate x 2.0. This is the first time this parliament will have ever created an expandable scheme like this now, and once if it didn't help us because there was a lack of simple prisoner. But actually it reflected the the seriousness with which we took this issue and the deeper feeling about the fetch that this these laws, the laws of these men were convicted under, and now seen as absolutely wrong, fundamentally wrong. And those means should not have borne the sky, a bit criminal enough of this parliament to do what it can do to reduce this, it is important that the experiment goes far beyond some clear, [00:09:07] you're not allowed to [00:09:08] discriminate on the basis of this conviction service to speak a city, not you the society is not allowed to discriminate on the basis of these convictions and becomes as close as we could physically and practically get us to a situation where these convictions and as if, as if as if they've never existed, for the purposes of New Zealand law. Mr. Speaker and the first reading of this bill, we didn't just move the first reading of the bourbon send it off to submit committee in the way in which we normally did this house also past emotion that I moved. That this Parliament's apologize to those homosexual New Zealanders who are convicted for consensual adult activity, and recognize the tremendous version suffering, those men and their families have gone through. And they continue to fix those convictions have had on them. We put it on the record that this has deeply regretted that stigma suffered by the many hundreds of New Zealand men who were turned into criminals, by law that was profoundly wrong. And for this, let's have this Parliament's [00:10:10] push on records that it was sorry, [00:10:13] we acknowledge those men should never have been burdened with conviction. And we wanted to recognize the continue to fix the convictions had had on their lives, and the lives of the family. Now, Mr. Speaker, when we as the government at that time decided to move that motion and supported by the parties in the House passed that motion. It was a very deliberate decision, that it was this Parliament as an institution that would apologize and express in its most sincere form, the scenes of regrets, the understanding of the hurts and the desire put it right. Again, it's the speaker that is, in my experience, my understanding, quite unique. And I do hope that this bill, that that apology, and that the action of this house to move with someplace actually I might not always seem like it from the outside looking in. But with some pace, given all of the other work that's going on, to put this bill into law does reflect a real desire to bring this [00:11:12] awful period of history to a close as far as we can ever rewrite history. And that was certainly [00:11:17] a theme and the select committee. We can't change history. And actually, nor should we want to because sometimes remembering the wrongs of the past is incredibly important. So we were trying to rewrite history and blanket from history. But we were absolutely sitting out to ensure that the impact of these criminal convictions, the tag of criminality, the stigma, the decision on these men and their families should be removed as far as this house [00:11:45] could could [00:11:47] physically make that possible. Mr. Snake, I think the bill now is in a better state when I introduce you to the house. And I'm certainly happy to acknowledge that I think we have got far more to the place that we have we as a government introducing it, and this has had wanted it to be at first reading. I think it does go as far as we practically can to make those acknowledgments and to write those wrongs as to speak it is a bill that I'm incredibly proud of. It is a bill that I do hope and believe will help to heal those wounds. And it is a bill that I'm very pleased to support. [00:12:27] SPEAKER [00:12:29] I call dear. [00:12:32] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's a pleasure to rise and museum first. and support of the criminal records expansion of convictions for historical homosexual of interest, though, [00:12:43] as we've heard from the most read other [00:12:46] contributions so far, this bill six to reduce the stigma and all other negative effects arising from my conviction. For historical, I'm a sexual offenses, that also entitles the convicted person to the clear that they have most such conviction and museum law ended the conviction would no longer appear on a chrome criminal history risk. [00:13:07] cheap. [00:13:09] So it's actually not that often that you get to stand up in their house and speak on a bill that has 100% full support from every member of this house. But I think also, the most important part is, I feel from my perspective, there's no politics involved with this. I think that we've all recognized as a country, and the representatives here of that country that the Earth, there were some terrible wrongs that occurred. And we had the responsibility in this house to learn to recognize those wrongs, but also apologize for our roles as a government and the leaders of the country. And though that hurt and unnecessary, who on those individuals [00:14:03] on first, obviously fully supports this piece of legislation, sir, impacts the apology and this movement through the house with us legislation, and sort that also supports the recommendations for the changes, the slight changes, and the silicon million amendments. From the slick Mini. [00:14:23] This bill actually does highlight [00:14:26] sort of double edged sword, [00:14:28] it highlights somewhat of a stain on on our country's history. And the effect that we have on we hit on some individuals because of the personal orientation. But also it shows I think, the other side of the coin, where it shows how far we've actually come since they're not not so long ago, and didn't say roped off the first call and was involved with the, with the slick me process of this bill. And it took over the set, obviously this here. But one of the things on I know that I think everybody out there in the in the general public understands that it wasn't that long ago, that we had a law against him a sexual orientation. And you know what the Spirit actually holiday was, in fact, it wasn't it was such a short period ago, and wanted a six to them in my lifetime. And I find that it's unimaginable for anybody of the new generation that was born, post that time to actually comprehend them to understand. [00:15:34] Of course, it's it's never too late to apologize, sir. And it's never too late to admit to wrong doing some that's what this legislation allows. Unfortunately, it is too late in some circumstances to avoid the massive damage that was caused to some of those individuals, to innocent people. And we need to acknowledge that there's three main issues that this bowl six to accomplish that does not believe so. The first is that it reconfirms the freedom of people to locally express your sexuality, and be free from prejudice, or any prejudice and doing so the second avoids huge disadvantage, suffering such a conviction. In in, [00:16:23] in regards to her into disclose the conviction, in terms of employment, and so on. But most importantly, the third one, so that it goes some way, hopefully to restore some sort of self esteem to those individuals, helps them enhance the mental well being and self worth. For all of those who suffered convictions. One of the most important aspects of this piece of legislation going through is that it's not just a piece of paper that they were in real life stories and individuals that were affected by this. And I think that it's important to not just speak about the what's written in the legislation, that bill is going through this house, but how it has all the previous law affected, specific individuals. And these stories, and I'll just like to take these couple of minutes and three, two or three of the [00:17:22] submissions that I have gone through and really stand out for me. So [00:17:29] one states that these convictions, destroyed careers, including the case of our friend, a top almost graduate of Port, see Officer Candidate School, forcing his vision make resignation from his post as a younger youngest ever kept them to hold a commission and the New Zealand army. More significantly, they cause substantial trauma and loss of validity to those affected and the quote Smit individual, this conviction still leaves at the 53 years to self hatred, worthlessness, justified guilt and shame. [00:18:03] to relive the anguish and pain, chronic drinking and self destruction took control over the next 10 to 15 years, until the realization that I wasn't a two headed monster. And there were many others like me throughout the world. I love my country, but live in fear of being found out of fear the humidity, light humiliation, panic attacks, when I see a in a uniformed police officer, general feeling of being unwilling to myself, something few others would understand. [00:18:35] Another one, sir, I had never been arrested before, or been in trouble with the police. I was charged with keeping a place of resort and decent x between miles. There was the abuse bashings and tear that followed from anti gay bigots. This conviction has affected me personally and financially ever since. And during my employment prospects and overseas travel. I've been active doing volunteer work but have been disadvantage when background checks have been required for some organizations. [00:19:08] And this one actually in from a different perspective. So it was from a young New Zealander who didn't live in those times. [00:19:18] They say I'm a criminal and 76 countries and I'm so thankful that I have not seen as a criminal in my home country. I am the hateful words spoken by the males have many whether it is in high school halls or behind some walls. hate speech is still prevalent in our society. I am did the death sentence and five countries on the news tightening around the neck or the shop from the electric chair because they couldn't they could have been me if I was born in a different place. And if I would have spoken up being some people cannot be a voice 31 years ago, I could have been behind bars for just being who I am. And lastly, see, I think everyone has heard of [00:20:02] one of the most notable examples of being convicted for the sexual orientation. And the individual was Alan Turing, not a New Zealander, but he was obviously British, but this suffered under the same legislation that occurred back then. [00:20:20] He was a highly influential in the development of the theoretical computer science, cheering us widely considered to be the father of theoretical computer [00:20:29] science and artificial intelligence. [00:20:32] He was responsible for breaking the Nazi Enigma code during World War Two is work idealize the age they needed to win the war in Europe and lead to the creation of the computer. [00:20:45] Defined [00:20:47] sorry, in 1952, he was arrested and charged with indecency at the brief relationship with another man I'm a security was still a crime in Great Britain of their time, defined did not deny the charges. When he was a race to the first thing you see it was he thought this should not be against the law. He gave a statement that was unapologetic, that detailed what had happened during took his own life and 1954 two years of being outed as gay. He died from eating an apple laced with cyanide, and he was only 41 years old. So I think that those individual cases that we heard from the submitters, just a few of them. And [00:21:31] that one of the most famous examples of the hugely negative of fix that a piece of hard legislation that they previously existed prior to 19, 86,000 individuals. I'm very proud of this house moving forward as one and return to New Zealand First as part of that and pass this legislation. Thank you, sir. [00:21:52] I call the honorable, maybe better. [00:21:54] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is with great pride, I rise to speak at the second reading of the criminal record six management of convictions for historical homosexual offenses. National, of course, supports this bill, because it builds on the work of the former Minister of Justice Amy Adams, who's talking earlier call in this house. And July last year when the first reading came through and the apology was given, I feel it was extremely significant milestone, really a place of watershed time. And this house Actually, I'm searching for the right words, because this is a house that has lagged behind where it ought to have been on this particular issue. This is a scheme that is long overdue. It is a step towards addressing the stigma, the prejudice, and the pain that many New Zealand has had to live with unfairly. And it has helped to put right or wrong that has stood for too many years. 32 years ago, in this place, the homosexual Law Reform Act decriminalized homosexual conduct between consenting males 16 years of age and older, then Parliament a few the seven years to amend the law to allow the rights to be free from discrimination on the grounds of homosexual orientation, which was recognized and the Human Rights Act of 1993. And then took another 25 years to pass the marriage definition of marriage amendment debt. And 2013. I was a member of parliament in this house. And I'm proud to say I voted on all three readings in favor of that piece of legislation allowing same sex couples to legally marry. This parliament has taken its time to address the rights of the past. But we are doing it again today with the second reading at the food straighten that the minister Amy Adams who referred to it again and her earlier call made an apology on behalf of all of Parliament about the hurt and the stigma suffered by men who were made into criminals. When the provisions of the sacks come in, and I think it will quite swiftly because it is supported across the house. as others see there is a rarity. But the main revisions will be that people will be able to an eligible to apply if they were convicted of specific offenses under the crimes that relating to sexual activity between males 16 years of over. Those were the acts of course that were decriminalized under the homosexual Law Reform Act of 1986. So there are five main offenses, I won't go through them. The the presiding minister did there a few moments ago. But I think it is very important to recognize that the sexual activity must have been consensual, and that both parties what over 16 years of age. I know that there were people who made submissions, who felt that that the age should not be relevant, but the criminal length factor still applies of over the age of 16. Now so I know that the select committee at the time, the Justice Select Committee of which I am a member currently really debated this extensively. But I think it is important to acknowledge that the process as well as one that is, is a different one for this parliament. There are many differences about this piece of legislation, I'll highlight a couple of them, the Secretary for justice will be the individual responsible for determining determining applications on a case by case basis. But this will not mean that men will be expected to come forth and give evidence appear in person, even the Secretary will be able to require applicants to provide relevant information on request, if necessary to make the decision. But the process should be as easy as possible. And I think that that is important. These men have suffered enough and for long enough. So if an application is approved, their conviction would be expunged. And that expansion is noted in official records. But what does that mean and practice, it means that the person formerly with a criminal record would be entitled to declare that they have no conviction, and that their conviction would not appear on any official criminal record. For those of us who are lay people and don't understand the minutiae of the law sometimes, in this case, it is important, I think, to note that the Justice League committee took a lot of time to talk about expansion, which is, as others have mentioned, very rare in New Zealand draw, the significance of it is that if it went to a concealed conviction, which was I think what was initially proposed, the neck conviction may still be disclosed and certain situations, and a person must be conviction free for seven years, and have never been imprisoned to be eligible under the age. And expansion, though, will be available regardless of any subsequent defending and the sentence imposed. I think that is extremely important. And it's management it is it never existed, and no shouldn't have. But we are putting that record straight. And that's important, because of the psychological impact that this legislation, the former laws really have had on the victims and the the people who have been supposed to be perpetrators and the previous speaker gave some very moving examples of people whose lives have been blighted, overshadowed and shortened, sometimes at their own hand, by that sense of shame. It is not to be taken lightly. Experiencing discrimination on the basis of sexuality is not something that happens in New Zealand anymore, and nor should, it can have an impact on an individual's opportunities. And not only in their employment, I mean, for example, they wouldn't be able to take on governance roles on committees and so forth, because a criminal conviction would not allow them to do that. But they wouldn't even necessarily be able to travel to places. And these are the sort of ongoing issues with people with criminal convictions that are really important to note, because it really does contain people's lives and restraint people's lives. And why that has manifestly unfair, it seems to me that this is a piece of legislation that really is tidying up some of the bad practices of the past. And I think that the teen submissions, I think it was that the Justice committee hood outlined the the reasons why it was so important to men who are alive, but also those who have passed away. And this bill allows people to be able to put their, their relatives or the friends case forward, and to ask for that expansion. And I think that when you're putting right historical wrongs, it's very important to understand that for those who have passed, that it is still important as it is and more records actually, when people have been [00:28:34] wrongfully or in appropriately found guilty. In a wartime situation. The family's been sometimes generations are trying to put the military he record right. And to put this side of the story, I think it is very important elements of this legislation that it does allow. That's costumers recognition of innocence and experiment, I think is the key notes here. So I think that this bill will proceed this, this will go through the house smoothly. I hope it does, it can't come soon enough. And I would urge all members of this house to continue to make the points but also to move this piece of legislation through as quickly as possible, because it is a wrong that needs to be put right as soon as possible. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. [00:29:20] I call the honorable ground. [00:29:22] So thank [00:29:22] you very much, Mr. Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the second reading of this bill. In the first reading of this bill, I made a speech that really are I hope, sees up for for myself and for others the premise behind why we need this legislation. And it's been mentioned by a number of other colleagues. And and I think it's important that we don't lose sight of what now will become a slightly technical debate about elements of the bill, what we're trying to achieve here. And what we are doing is other speakers feed is trying to write at a vastly and just wrong, that existed in our society for so long. It was interesting to me, Mr. Speaker, when reading the submissions that came in on this legislation to the select committee, just how many of them came from young people, from people whose life and existence is far removed from their of the men who were convicted, and this unjust law. And I was struck, particularly in my colleague, Derek bolts already quoted from this person's submission, but from the teenager who submitted to the committee, and use this phrase, which I think it's an extraordinary one. Love used to carry a prison sentence in this very country, until 1986. For a teenager to say that so clearly and stack lead to this house, is, to me a validation of a number of things, including so many parts is actually but also have the fact that we have a new generation of young [00:31:06] LGBT IQ people coming through, who have the most extraordinary vision not only of their own lives, but also looking back to the past. And I think we need to acknowledge that happened in the select committee process. Mr. Speaker, I want to talk for the most part. And the second reading is I think we're actually meant to do about the select committee process, and acknowledge the fact that the committee has done some useful things in terms of dealing with the issues that were raised in front of them and the whole Christian of wasn't expunged. conviction is the movement from defining criminal record. And replacing that with official record I think is a step forward. Because I think that acknowledges that a criminal record could be defined as quite a narrow to the official record means that we cover a wider seat public records, particularly those in line with the Public Records Act. And it also makes it more similar to the clean slate there, I think that will go some way to meeting the concerns of, of MPs who sorry of submitters who came to in peace with it. The other metal that I know a number of submit, as we're concerned about was the question of whether or not the language in the bill was limiting what we were doing here today to New Zealand, and then it would infect, not help our people who were working or traveling overseas. And then we were in fact writing the bill in such a way as to is to cause difficulty via and I know that the committee is, is looking at clarifying clause nine to remove the word only from the phrase for the purposes only of the laws of New Zealand, because we do I believe, as a parliament want this expansion meant to be recognized in overseas jurisdictions. That is only right. It is is only right that we as a parliament take some responsibility for their I do of course, note that we can't take full responsibility for the laws of other countries. But what we can do is ensure that our law facilitates and support people who have been affected by these unjust convictions from traveling overseas. Mr. Speaker, the other and more far reaching thing that I think came out from the select committee submissions, is the importance of know saying that this, this piece of legislation matters not only for the people who are still alive today, who had convictions, not only for the families of people who were convicted, but also for the wider community, in the LGBT IQ community. And I think that was starkly drawn out by the submissions that came from organizations that represent [00:33:57] you all the way through to the Lord society and others, and that we as a parliament, as we pass this legislation, not have to realize that not only does the weight of history, land on our shoulders, but also the weight of the future. And time and time again, what the submissions here do is cool this parliament to action, to continue to make New Zealand a place where people can be who they are, where people are supported to live lives of dignity, and hope, and free from discrimination. And those submissions time and time again, raised the issues that still exist in our community. Some of them are legislative, particularly for the trans community. Some of them are attitudinal for people for young people expressing still the discrimination that they feel in the communities. And some of them are about the way in which we continue to support people, be it the trans community sinking the surgery, or be it health services, social services that are provided. And Mr. Speaker wall, this particular bill cannot do much about that. I think we owe it to the people who submitted to the committee to acknowledge and to recognize the fact that we are on a journey here. And it's a journey that this bill takes an important step in. But it is not the end of that journey. And there were several submissions, Mr. Speaker that went down this path. And I do want to make a spiritual reference for someone who is unknown to me, I should set say, tea, green Smith with who in his submission, I think very eloquently talked about the issues that are in front of us today. And I just want to quote briefly, from the end of his submission, everything I do in my life is to ensure that those LGBT kids coming through the system today do not have to experience the same struggle that I did, growing up in New Zealand. These are exactly the same goals of those brave men who fought for decriminalization in the 1980s. And of those who suffered in silence for decades, we have a long journey before us in order to treat achieve true equity and equality for LGBT New Zealanders, and teach writing to the committee here, I invite each and every member of the select committee to join me in the hundreds of other LGBT New Zealanders. in that journey, we [00:36:29] need you. [00:36:32] Parliament needs to hear the call of those in our community who is saying they still [00:36:37] need us. [00:36:39] This is an important step. This is a useful and important piece of legislation that will mean an enormous amount to the people who carry the shame. And the stigma still today of the convictions that they got, we must make sure as we move through the remaining stages of the bill, that we make the bill as clear as possible. And I believe the select committee changes do that, that there has what we will be doing today for them and for their families. And then we must redouble our efforts to make sure that as a parliament, we do everything we can to support the young people, not only those who submitted, but those who are still working their way through their own journey. Mr. Speaker, I won't delay the house much longer on this matter, other than to say I'm very pleased that the legislation has found its way to this stage, there is an important issue that needs to be acknowledged and my final period, and that is the call for compensation. We need to acknowledge that members of our community have come to the select committee and asked for this. We also need to acknowledge that this is an issue where there are divided opinions about compensation. I hope as we move through the Committee of the Whole House stage, members of the committee will talk through the way they came to the decision about this, it is not an easy topic. But it is important that we give honor to those who submitted on this matter and the people that they represent, I continue to believe there are a number of ways available to the government and to this parliament to think about how we honor the men who were so unjustly convicted, the mean, whose lives were ruined, and the mean, whose lives were ended by this. There are a number of ways forward for this parliament and this country. I want that dialogue to continue. And I think it's very important that we do that as part of this bill process. [00:38:35] Mr. Speaker, I want to end my contribution by acknowledging every single person who made a submission to the select committee, the people that they represent, and the committee members themselves. This is our democracy working well. It is also Allison in a story for us to continue to hearing here in the years to come. [00:38:54] Mr. Speaker, I call Chris Fisher. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. And I just want to agree with what Robert Simmons see them the house so far. This is a profoundly important, though, for New Zealand's parliament and for our democracy. And it's fantastic that it will, I believe receive unanimous support in the parliament and 32 years on from homosexual or former 1986 and the rancorous antagonistic, putting it mildly debate in the tortured passage of that piece of legislation through the parliament on a personal vote the conscience issue, members divided morally in politically and engage some of them, some of them engaging in Poland behavior 33 years old from that. It's just a testament really to how far we've come as a country that we will have our bill for the house that not only affirms homosexual law reform, and it sucks, but actually seeks to wipe from the record books, convictions under the law as it existed prior to 1986. And that bill will pass Parliament unanimously. And the apology that parliament has given at the same time [00:40:23] that the honorable Amy Adams delivered when she was Minister of Justice, and the last parliament. Because of the bill passed unanimously, parliament is every single person to a man and a woman endorsing the message of reconciliation, and of justice, and doing justice to be more precise. I do want to echo what Grant Robertson seed in his remarks about how we have a long way to go. In this strive for equality, and tolerance, NASA saw it and creating an New Zealand we're every young person in particular, no matter the sexuality, or the agenda, can grow up living in a society where they feel they are valued. And they feel that the they are respected and that they are acknowledged. And the dignity is upheld. We have a long way to go. We have come a long way. But we have a long way to go. And I'm looking forward to being part of that conversation. As we move forward into the 21st century. It was a privilege to work on the stove. And the justice and literal committee in the last Parliament and the renamed justice committee and the new parliament as a shortened committee title but we say for put up double the work because Lauren Lauren has been followed and to us. And I see my colleague Roman Whoa. Smiling, perhaps a bit Riley because it looks like from the old paper, we're going to get even more work over the next few months. But it's okay. We're very hard working committee. And I know members from both sides really enjoyed working on this new colleague, Greek a comma from a hotter you in Geneva, some from labor, and Priyanka Radha Krishna from labor as well, we really enjoyed working on this really important though, I think we've made some useful changes, actually, minimum speaker, we you know, we interrogated the substance of the bill really closely, [00:42:23] we really did [00:42:25] get really down into the weeds of the bill, because the operation of the punishment regime is a vital importance to, you know, the purpose of the bill, and giving a fifth to what what the purpose of others, which has to wipe from the statute books and white [00:42:40] from the record books, [00:42:41] the history of it conviction, and the conviction itself. And members previously have gone through some of the quite technical changes we've made around criminal records. What official records means a meaning the definition of it Spanish from election in section in Section nine, and clause nine of the bill, and those are very useful changes. Madam Speaker, the nothing The only thing that familiar to madam chair is to come in the building the house, and I'm looking forward to a speedy passes through committee for how and all sorts did radio [00:43:19] cure. [00:43:21] I call Jan buggy. [00:43:23] Thank you, Madam Speaker. And it's also with great pleasure that I rise to speak to this the second rating of the criminal records, expansion of convictions for historical on the sexual offences bill, and want to share the views and the sentiment that's being expressed in the house tonight of the importance of this bill. And also acknowledge the origins of this and the effects of that, I think it's also a victory for power, the parliamentary process and democracy in itself. We we had quite a few years of members of the LGBT q community calling for the expansion of homosexual convictions, and they seem to be falling on and hearing ears. And then a young person whether we didn't check, put together a petition, that and got over 2000 signatures, which was presented to Parliament asking for an apology for [00:44:34] those who were convicted of having sexual crimes and for this legislation. And through that process, the view of the government changed, and to the point that we now have unanimous support in this house for the apology previously, and now this legislation to extend bunch those convictions. And it is a wonderful thing to see that working effectively. And I to just want to echo some of the sentiments that were in the submissions and noting that while the primary purpose of this bill is to seek to reduce prejudice, stigma, and all other negative effects arising from a conviction for historical, homosexual or fields, [00:45:31] that this legislation which is so significant to those mean, and they families, because lives were Roland, and ended early as a result of the prejudice that was created by our laws. The impacts has also been why they're in the significance of this legislation is wider. And I would also like to quote from the submission from Tim Greensmith waste that Grant Robertson also previously referenced as well where he was saying that as a younger, queer men, that for him the primary purpose of this bill, was it as an opportunity to recognize and address the rungs of the past, to remember and recognize the sacrifice of these brave, gay and bisexual men, and to pave the path forward. So that as a society, and as a parliament, we never make the same mistakes again. And for me, that's there's a lot of things and net short statement, it's about recognizing the harm and the wrongs and how profound they were. But also recognizing that journey of sacrifice for those mean, many of them home, we're got first convictions from being brave enough to push against that prejudice to try and still express themselves in a way that created that crack, that open up to enable the later homosexual law reform that enable people like me and others to stand in this house stand nl identity, [00:47:24] proudly, and that was an extraordinary sacrifice that so many of us have benefited from. And it also speaks to the point that has previously also they made is that we still have a long way to go to remove prejudice and discrimination, and totality, from our law books and from our society. And that's still too many members of the LGBT Q, I play a plus community, particularly trends, and then to six people suck a very severe discrimination and their lives to all too often in early because of that discrimination. So this piece of legislation is significant at prices, our history in front of us, to enable us to make choices about how we move forward. And that is a challenge to us, as well as a moment to celebrate how far we've come. And I also want to pick up on some points made in a submission from the Tiber University Students Association quiz support for Indonesian, where they talk about that this legislation tells young people that the inlet, ILA, the galaxy of homosexuality, was a thing of the past, and that some wrongs can be rice, it not reversed, but rice it and that diversity is important, and needs to be celebrated and not shun. [00:49:19] And I think that calls us to action still, they also made a point that I think is worth repeating later on in the submission where they spoke about. And [00:49:32] as young people talking to older gay men that have experienced this legislation and living in the environment of this legislation, we, this person has spoken to an older man, and he was talking about when he was stopped by police, when he used the public toilets, because he was indecently exposing himself to other mean, and the toilet when he was only using the bathroom. And I think that story for me, speaks to how pervasive the impact of that law was, it was not just the harm that was done to the mean, who ended up convicted, and look, living lives stigmatized by that conviction and spending time in prison for being who they were. But it was the environment that was created [00:50:30] for meaning, if not meaning me, [00:50:34] who had to live in a way that was unnatural to them, to be able to try and protect themselves from that prejudice law. And that that man had spoken as well about how he married a woman at 23, as many of his friends did, because that is what you did. That was what you had to do to hide protect yourselves. And obviously, that would have had a profound impact on his life, as well as the lives of the women that these men married and their families. So there is much for us to fix. And it is great to have this legislation in the house to be able to enable the sponge method of those deeply wrong conditions. And I would like just to touch on to some of the points and the work that was done in the committee to make sure that it be so reflected the intent of this health to ensure that it [00:51:47] would address the issue for people traveling internationally and not just limited for providing that expands meant and [00:51:58] in New Zealand, and that also that there was a change to from criminal records to official records so that it's similar to the clean slate bill, and affects the widest set of records and us bit of protection and a more complete [00:52:19] implement against enables a better implementation of the intent of the legislation. And I also to want to finish on the point about the call for compensation. And hope to see why the discussion of that either in this house through the debate on this bill or within government, and would again touch on and I know that there were different views presented in the select committee of some men saying and people saying that was not the point of the point was to make it clear that this law was wrong. And to expunge those convictions that wasn't about money. I will though points that in one of the submissions. The example was given of international recent international press event in Germany, we have compensation has been provided. And mean we're expected to receive about 4760 New Zealand dollars and compensation for their convictions, plus 2390. For every year they spent in prison. It's not huge, it's doable, we can do this. [00:53:30] I call met King. [00:53:32] It's a pleasure to speak on this fella which we all support, quite frankly, it's a no brainer. I'd like to acknowledge the honorable Amy Adams for the large amount of work that she carried out on this important piece of legislation, which was reverted the Justice League committee last year. I'd also like to acknowledge the current government for reinstating this important piece of legislation. And I'd like to acknowledge the carrots, just a slick committee chair Raymond who he does a fantastic job. As part of this, current Parliament's just the slick committee, I've heard some pretty convincing and emotional submissions from people grossly affected by these outdated laws. [00:54:11] Quite frankly, this legislation as well overdoing it allows people that have previously been convicted of sexual specific sexual acts that in our modern society, and now not considered criminals to stand before us and declare that that conviction free. This is very important for many mean, we've heard from in my view, it's pointless having a faint says such as these removed from the statute book without having this experience meant legislation to accompany we have heard some harrowing submissions from members of the public about how this has affected their lives. And I want to recount one particular story which stuck with me here from this poor man, who, who recounted how many years ago, [00:55:00] at the age of 19, he'd been caught and convicted of a sexual act with another male [00:55:07] and a fence, which has now been removed from the statute books. But back then was illegal. [00:55:13] He'd been employed and I've chosen provision which are white dispose for privacy reasons. For over 30 years, very successfully. He decided to take some time away from his profession, and return to it a few years later. on returning he applied for two different jobs. And he would have been successful, but for refusal to to filing to pass the background checks based on his prior conviction. [00:55:43] Now, this background check by an anomaly included references the sections covering sexual offenses, which are not relevant today, due to the removal of the offense from the statute law. [00:55:54] Ultimately, he was devastated by this. And then eventually to suicide attempts, and a very low point in his life. [00:56:05] I felt that there was no one in that slick committee room that day that did not feel this man's pain. [00:56:12] It's one of the reasons why I became a politician to help right the wrongs. Accordingly, we support this very worthwhile and life changing legislation. [00:56:27] In my mind, I call Johnny Anderson yet this is a split call, five minutes. [00:56:34] Let's fill as part of a progressive journey for one of a better word of change in New Zealand. And I'm proud to see that there is agreement across the house on making positive change that directly affects the lives of meaning New Zealanders. I vividly remember as about seven or eight years old, coming out in the streets of Christchurch, after a family meal to stumble into a protest on the streets. And I'd never seen anything like it before. I'd never seen people so angry. people calling out of synergies at one end words that I was never allowed to use at home or even at school. And on the other side, people calling out out of a closet, and then to the street. I didn't know what it means. I remember asking my parents, what was it about? Why would these guys in the company anyway, and why couldn't might be out and learning about the types of discrimination that had happened in New Zealand. So I'm really proud to see this journey come so far, that the homosexual Law Reform Act of 1986, in some ways, is being linked to take its full course. But this piece of legislation that removes the stigma and discrimination of those that were wrongfully convicted under that previous legislation. So I am I'm proud to be part of it. I'm also proud as a new employee to this house for this to be the first piece of legislation that I have spoken on it. So you can reading that I've directly heard submissions from from members of the public. And as we've heard already, some of those submissions we're really moving. And it's a it's a great as a form of public servant, who only got to write papers, and draw diagrams to be able to directly engage with the public and understand firsthand about how Lewis can impact on people's lives. And to be grateful for the opportunity that we have here to undo those wrongs. Well, this legislation can't undo the hurt that was caused, I hope, and I'm sure others here do today, hope that this will help to patch up to help move forward and to create a basic country for people going forward. Well, we're reminded when we look at how far we've come in my lifetime, from when I was a child seeing those protests to where we're at right now, we still have a long way to go. And we have a long way to go through there. And I believe that adds up to keep changing attitudes to keep challenging those who choose to discriminate an order to keep that that Julie moving. There were two submissions that are quickly referred to. And the first has already been mentioned in terms of someone who's had employment opportunities removed from them as a direct result of having convictions under the previous legislation. So this is important that we have a practical purpose that people should not be denied the right to a job because they're working with children. And I felt a background cheek. It's unacceptable. That is blatant discrimination in business legislation is definitely needed in order to put that right. [01:00:05] Well, I also heard from a good friend who's already been mentioned tonight, which is to Green Smoke waste. And he to me really represented it Select Committee and you generation of young people in the LGBT community that aren't prepared to sit back, who wants to take action who are prepared to be politically active and want the voices heard. And that is encouraging. So I say this legislation is twofold as fixing those wrongs, but also providing a new environment of hope. And of giving young people a country where they can be proud of who they are. And that is so important that we have those young people prepared to step up and take that. Finally, I would like to acknowledge the work of Amy [01:00:49] Adams, [01:00:50] who is deputy chair of that committee was passionate also about this legislation is the former Minister of Justice. She had expertise in this area and you the legislation very well, that facilitated my colleagues. He's a day for the Justice committee to fully understand legislation quickly and get to grips with what we had in front of us. So I acknowledge her contribution. I have no further comments. I'm proud to speak on this bill. And I can mean that to the house. [01:01:20] And truthful and Thank you, Madam Speaker. It's a privilege to be speaking this afternoon. On the second reading of the criminal records, experiment of convictions for historical homosexual offenses. I'd like to commend the current Minister of Justice Andrew little off of hope for progressing the bill, but also come in and congratulate the previous Minister of Justice Amy Adams, for her dedication. There's been a lot of talk over many years about expunging homosexual offenses, and I don't think it wouldn't have happened without hard work over the last few years. Mr. Speaker, Madam Speaker, either this bill has been a long time coming [01:01:59] and 1974 [01:02:00] initially and pay by the name of being young, who is the father of Jonathan young friend and colleague of ours, Jonathan young, introduced a bill to permit private homosexual acts. That bill was unfortunately defeated, but was revived in the 1980s boyfriend wild. And I'd like to join other colleagues and and acknowledging tonight the homosexual Law Reform Act was passed in July 1986. And came into effect. In August of that year, the act decriminalized sexual acts between mean [01:02:34] i'd 16, [01:02:36] and are the however, convictions prior to that [01:02:40] have remained providing a permanent scar. For those mean, who carry them. Madam Speaker, there was an absolute privilege and honor to sit on the Justice League committee that considered this bill. My colleague, Amy Adams, has already commented on the collegial atmosphere of that bill. At times, it was like thing as members of the committee versus the officials, [01:03:02] rather than later this national nationally pays. But that's the way it should be on important legislation, such as this. My colleague, Matt Cain has already commented on the very emotional testimony that was given it at that committee, sometimes it was very challenging to sit there and listen to it, and hear the stories and experiences that some of these mean, have gone through in the past in more recent years, unconscious, that this bill will never make up for the hurt that those mean suffered over many decades. And it wanting to rise, the black stain on this nation's history is however, the right thing to do. And I hope it brings some sense of closure for those mean, and the families. Every member of parliament should be proud to say this bill passage. Thank you. [01:04:00] I couldn't I could see more. [01:04:03] Thank you, Madam Speaker. And I rise on behalf of the x party to take a very short call in support of the criminal records, expunged of convictions for historical have a sexual offences bill, I can only join with other members, and saying that this is a wonderful occasion, to see members from five different parties coming together unanimously to say that these historical convictions wrong, they were hurtful, and they should be gone. And they that's part of our tradition that we have worked on throughout history as a nation to gradually expand the sphere of human rights, so that people have the right to be who they want to be an ex as they wish to act so long, they are harming nobody else. The men who are affected by these convictions, did not hurt anybody else and what they did, but they were nonetheless victimized by the state. under the laws made by this parliament. It's an important time for us to remember as lawmakers here in this house, that the power of the states that we are charged with restraining can do real harm to the lives of innocent individuals if we get it wrong. That is why we should always exercise restraint and lawmaking. We should always reserve a special place for the rights of the individual when we make laws. And we should always look at to the very basic principle, that my choice is what I'm what I choose to do. And if I'm causing no harm, it shouldn't bother you. Your choice. So you choose to be and if you're causing harm, then you're right with me. There is a principal on which to make laws, Madam Speaker, and I am so proud to stand here with five other parties unanimously supporting this bill, show a second reading, because it's the right thing to do, and signals that continued growth of our modern, sophisticated liberal and tolerant nation, New Zealand. Thank you, Madam Chair. [01:06:33] I call Priyanka Radha Krishna. Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is an absolute honor to stand and take a call on the second reading of the criminal records, expansions of convictions for historical homosexual offenses act. And it was also an incredible privilege, as colleagues of the Justice select committee have said before me today, it was an absolute privilege to be part of the select committee that considered this bill that heard the submissions to this bill, and received advice on it as well. Many people I speak to talk about the fact that at times, things are rather adversarial in this house. And again, as other members have pointed out, [01:07:23] you know, I wish they could have actually seen us in action at the Justice Select Committee, because that's absolutely how it should be. And it was such a pleasure to work with members from across the house on this bill and refining this bill. [01:07:39] as has been said, already this afternoon, this is a piece of legislation that will introduce the scheme to wipe convictions for those who've, you know, to wipe the convictions of historical homosexual offenses. It is the progression of change. And it's one that has a new MPM incredibly proud to be part of it follows on from the homosexual Law Reform Bill back in 1986. That was passed by the fourth Labour government, since the in this particular, you know, the previous piece of legislation that actually criminalized homosexual men has ceased to have any meaning it ceases to have any meaning for us legally today. But of course, we've heard from those who have suffered for many years as a result of those convictions. [01:08:35] And it also follows on from the passing of the marriage definition of marriage amendment act 2013, that allowed same sex couples to marry legally. And, of course, the apology that was given by the former Minister of Justice, the Honorable Amy Adams. And at this point, I do want to acknowledge the work that she has put into the boat. And, of course, also our current justice minister, the Andrew little for carrying on with this piece of work as well. So this bill, this, this piece of legislation goes to the heart of the hurt, and stigma that so many have experienced over the years, young men we've heard who have been arrested and convicted for just being who they are. [01:09:21] People mean, who have lived in constant fear of law enforcement, for health, including the mental health implications of this fear, and the convictions as well, all for just being who they are. And this is really what this piece of legislation does. It celebrated as it allows us to celebrate who we are by lifting that stigma and that hurt. So how does this bill work? We've actually heard about the fact that men with convictions for historical homosexual offenses can apply for those offenses for those convictions to be expunged. Basically, what we're saying here today is that it never should have happened. And with this piece of legislation, it will be as though it didn't for, you know, purposes of applying for a job. And, and for the from from the legal point of view, it won't completely be deleted from records because this is a record of something that's happened and really something that we're not proud of a collective shame. In fact, I'll touch on one aspect of submissions that were considered by the Select can be committee that members heaven actually alluded to so far. And that's the fact that some submitters and I think it was the Human Rights Commission, was one of them that suggested that it'd be an automatic expansion that was considered by the committee. But the advice that we received was that that automatic expansion wouldn't actually catch it. Everyone who was affected by the convictions and that proactive applications was a big a way to go to ensure that a wider group of people or more people who were who were affected by this could actually apply to have them expunged, we worked incredibly hard to ensure that it went a lot further than the clean slate act as well such that it wasn't just that it, you know, wouldn't be recorded, but that it actually would the effect would be better at Caesars ceases to exist, in a sense from a legal point of view. As was mentioned before, this does apply to New Zealand law. [01:11:34] Order members time has expired. [01:11:36] Thank you, I committed to the house. I call them Benjamin. [01:11:40] Thank you, Madam Speaker. Look, it's a privilege to rise is our last speaker on this bill. And I certainly endorse those comments we've had previously today and and command this bill. It is well past time. And it is actually fantastic to see that this is now happening, to be able to to expand these historical convictions, [01:12:03] I can just imagine would be such a weight off the shoulders [01:12:07] of those people that have had this hanging over their heads unfairly for far too many years, [01:12:14] I believe enables us as a country to actually celebrate our diversity, so much better, [01:12:19] to [01:12:19] celebrate the uniqueness that we have as New Zealanders to recognize that people are different. [01:12:25] And [01:12:26] something like this should not be considered a criminal act. So, again, I would just like to acknowledge that [01:12:34] the hard work of the select committee and pushing this through, [01:12:38] they've done a fantastic job and hearing some of the stories with hood earlier today just reiterates the need for this piece of legislation. And also just echoing David Seymour's coming into earlier, it is a nice recognition to see every party speaking and support of this bill, and acknowledging that and data, there's certainly time to address these concerns and to move forward as a much more open and inclusive society. [01:13:06] So on their behalf Madam Speaker, I would like to commend this bill [01:13:08] to the house. [01:13:10] I call Rehman Hall. [01:13:12] Thank you, Madam Speaker. First of all, I'd like to thank the Minister of Justice, the Honorable Andrew level, for making this bill one of the government's priorities. The purpose of this bill is to reduce stigma, prejudice and other negative effects arising from a conviction for historical homosexual offenses offense. The bill is the first of his type in New Zealand the law, which indicates the extraordinary nature of historical home sexual offenses. This offenses was targeted at a specific group in the community and criminalized a sexual activity between home sexual man. [01:14:02] This film demonstrates the government's contribution and commitment to right the wrongs of the past for those who were convicted of offenses prior to the homosexual Law Reform Act 1986. As the honorable grant Robinson stated earlier, it is important to acknowledge that the illegality of homes for homosexuality prior to the 1986 legislation, ruined lives, the shame, the stigma, and the hood cost was unbearable for many. On that note, [01:14:45] I should congratulate that then Minister of Justice, honorable Amy Adams for putting up the bill last year. [01:14:55] And I acknowledge who contribution edit the selection will we had worked very closely at the Justice Select Committee and I enjoyed the knowledge and commitments to help make the bill what it is now. It is very fitting in my capacity as a chair of the Justice committee to thank the honorable me items for her contributions at of the community and wish for good luck and enjoy her new role as a spokesperson for finance for the opposition party. Other like also to thank Matt King and Andrew saloon [01:15:38] who have also moved on to take up other roles in other Select Committee is falling the leadership change of the National Party and of the subsequent reshuffle. [01:15:51] This is the second reading of this bill. I should acknowledge the submitters, we have received the submissions from 37. seven meters, those submissions were very helpful, especially concerning the bills relationship with other piece pieces of legislation such as vulnerable children's act, and our come to those issues at Committee of the Whole House stage. It is important to acknowledge that the illegality of homeschoolers check out homosexuality prior to the 1986 legislation, ruins lives. And that's not only happening in New Zealand, that's kind of a worldwide issue. Many would remember the gay perch can hang in Canada, the gay perch campaign. [01:16:46] The Gay page was a campaign in Canada [01:16:52] to remove homosexuals from military and public service from 1960s to 1996. This was a systematic a government of policy. And a device was developed in to detect [01:17:10] homosexuality known as the fruit machine. The device was supposed to be able to identify gay man who will the rook to really referred to as fruits. The Canadian police collected files on over 9000 suspected gay man. And as a result, a significant number of workers at D to lose the job. Discrimination aside, the test was folding and had a new scientific merits. Now I cited of the Canadian experience to show it is not easy for us to come to the point of where we are now. So I should acknowledge all those people who had involved in making the 1986 New Zealand legislation a possibility. [01:18:04] Thanks to that piece of legislation no longer, no longer would man having consensual sex with each other be liable to prosecution and to a term of imprisonment. The campaign to reform the law moved beyond the gay community to why the issues of human rights and discrimination. Back to this bill. The bill provides for statutory scheme that allows a convicted person or a representative on behalf of the convicted person if they are deceased. To apply to have a conviction expunged. The Secretary for justice decides whether that application meets the test for expansion, which is the contact would not constitute an offense and that today slow, close eight sets out the test for punishment. The test, again is that the contact constituting the offense then would no longer constitute an offense now and the loss of New Zealand the test was a friend Friend in such way to ensure that any contact which is considered still to be a criminal would not be expunged. [01:19:29] The Billion titles that convicted person to declare that they have new such conviction for any purpose and unusual in the law, the conviction would not appear on a criminal history check or record if the application for expansion is granted. In terms of the criminal records or checks. There are two types of such kind of records. One is the same see Kate case management system. The other one is catch criminal and traffic conditions history report for the purpose of this bill, what I can say is, for those whose conviction been successfully successfully expansion, the conviction would not appear on the individuals catch report. [01:20:17] The bill identifies those who are eligible to have the convictions expunged. To be eligible to apply a person must have been convicted of one of the specific offenses and of the Crimes Act 1961 or equivalent offenses and the Crimes Act of 1908. That New Zealand, the Law Society and rainbow Wellington do not support excluding offenses prior to 1908. They claim that do not that not extend the scope of the skin to offenses prior to the Crimes Act 1908. Since to be arbitrary, and there's no clear rationale behind such kind of a policy initiative, the committee did consider whether the scope of the skin should be extended to predecessor offenses contained in legislation prior to 1908. This would eventually include pieces of legislation of the 1800s and the relevant UK legislation so far as if [01:21:21] it was part of the law of New Zealand. In practice, the Secretary may receive a few applications for offending of this time period because the convicted purses would be deceased, and potential representatives of the convicted persons are unlikely to have knowledge to have knowledge of the convictions. [01:21:44] Several submitters risk the lack of conversation as an issue. Some submitters also claim the lack of compensation could be seen as a potential breach of the Georgia Carter principal. Now Joker card is the name of the city, Indonesia, where the principal was established. I'll come to that point out of the Committee of the Whole House stage. But [01:22:10] in terms of some issues raised by the honorable grand Robeson and other speakers who spoke earlier, we do acknowledge the importance of conversation. However, conversation goes beyond the purpose of the scheme, which is to prevent further negative effects from the stigma of a conversation. There's no general principle that a person who is convicted of a repeat offense is entitled to compensation on the repeal of that offense. But I do note that contribution from previous speakers and I do believe we should keep the conversation open. And I look forward to a filter debates at the Committee of the Whole House. Thank you. The question [01:22:53] is that the motion be agree to those are their opinion will say I [01:22:57] to the country know [01:22:59] the eyes habit. [01:23:01] criminal records, expansion of convictions for historical homosexual [01:23:05] offenses Bill Second Reading [01:23:07] the Bella sit down for Committee stage next sitting day [01:23:12] call on government order of the day number three

This page features computer generated text of the source audio - it is not a transcript. The Artificial Intelligence Text is provided to help users when searching for keywords or phrases. The text has not been manually checked for accuracy against the original audio and will contain many errors.