Belinda Borell - Decolonise Your Minds hui

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[00:00:00] This podcast is brought to you by pride in, in association with the people of color decolonization, Hawaii. [00:00:09] And one of the things that always really struck me when I've been doing the privilege work is how almost completely, the Asian aggregate group was co opted into whiteness. So how much [00:00:27] those brown people doesn't always necessarily include the Asian group, and they get kind of CO opted into this model minority kind of status. And a couple of the slides that I'm going to show will look a little bit heavy. But what I wanted to show was some of the most recent racism, experiences of racial discrimination work that we've seen, and how the two populations, white Europeans and Asians couldn't be more different in terms of their experiences of that, and just makes me think, really a lot about how to try and be politicized about the way that the Asian aggregate group has co opted often into being the white being kind of the model, non white group, and what that means in terms of how it sets up [00:01:18] other non white non Asian groups in the country to think about the Asian group and to think about their relationships with white people. [00:01:26] And I'm often in my own family and my own experiences, I'm often having these very intricate discussions with my Marley family, about the perceptions of the Asian group, and where that come from, and what it means and, and what we, as Marty, can and need to be thinking about in that regard. So that's sort of where I was thinking was some of that. As I said before, key problem when you're talking about societal privilege, to a group of non white women is sort of how it's almost like, I'm coming in to teach a whole room full of fluent speakers How to say curator, you know, so it's kind of like you're far, you're not the average group that I would get to talk about this stuff with. And so I'm going to sort of just mention a bit about what I've been doing with [00:02:18] around privileged and talking to mainly white academic audiences and white professional bodies, about this stuff. And as always, there's a few activities that will do and it's always good when you have a real mixed group, ethnically and in terms of race, because it can really show how white people are viewed as normal and the things they can take for granted. And I'm not sure that's quite going to work with all of us. But Mickey is, we'll just go ahead and, and I'll just, and just jump in, if you want anything to say anything, what if I'm not sure how to get there looking any better. But I'm a big fan of PowerPoint, because I don't like writing. [00:03:03] I have to do it, but I don't like doing it. So I often will use PowerPoint, because I don't write well, but I speak real good. [00:03:10] And there's a couple I just wanted a couple make make a couple of things. Firstly, when I'm feeling really comfortable in a group is empty, I'm trying to swearing. And I know some people have issues with that. But as I told Ruth, the be a good place to swear, which is incredibly daring. And if I if I swear or, you know, I can sort of do that, it's a compliment. Because I do that in some settings. [00:03:40] And also, after I saw operation eight, I have an aversion to having my photo taken. So if people just look for that a purely political reasons. So if people can just sort of refrain from doing it, it's not because I know, that's not a taboo thing. It's not Turkish my prisoner there. But I just don't know where those things end up in, who gets them and who's seeing them and for what purpose. And I'm really conscious when I've been talking about whiteness, and about the powerful in our society, that doesn't always single you out for Pat's on the back, or, you know, no middle is coming your way. And in fact, you kind of this feels almost the opposite. So I'm really conscious about that. Okay. And so one of the things that I sort of do when I introduce this work to white people who have no concept of what you're talking about, as I as I showed this matrix. [00:04:39] And these are kind of how I've just finished a four year study around societal privilege, and Theodore, and this was sort of some of the frames that we used. And along the top, you'll see this sort of a policy domain is a media domain and in the sort of ethnographic everyday people kind of domain. And along the side is sort of some of the ways that we can think about those domains. So once in terms of identity ones in terms of power, and once in terms of discourse of how people talk. [00:05:08] And so for instance, I'll often say the pocket people, you know, ah, so why do you think there isn't a ministry of pack your fears? [00:05:17] Why is the Ministry of packages come on? We got a minute ship multi phase man ships have a current affairs ministry of women's affairs is a youth council, there's a age concern, why is the you know, Ministry of perkier affairs. And most party people have no Oh, my God. And I mean, the major thing is that when you start actually using that term Park, and you start using that Tim white, and you start talking about their cultural products, one of the things that I noticed is the body language, and the audience starts to try and change very dramatically. And you'll find all of the people of color in the room, they've been sitting like this, because you've been talking about poverty been talking about this position, if you're talking about all this other stuff, and you start talking about whiteness and power and who hasn't? Who doesn't, you find all the people of color in the room stop stop from the this is not to do this? [00:06:01] Oh. [00:06:04] Right. [00:06:06] And it's something that I never knew until I actually started talking about this stuff and seeing it in the room. And the white people in the room start sort of like, you know, could be very comfortable talking about poverty or comfortable talking about it, what can we do for you? How can we help you? [00:06:21] How can we better understand you to make you better, you know, with all this code and kind of terminology, they start saying like this and start doing this. [00:06:31] And so it's a real, and of course, the people of color never knew that they were doing this, until they start doing this right? In the white people never do that doing this until they start doing this. So sort of really highlight some of our pre pre understandings, you know, our paradigms about when we're talking about social relations. The other thing that I do in my lectures, as I see it, rules about who can speak and when and for how long. And so when I'm in a discussion, and it all I don't, I don't understand why, but more than anything else, it seems to connect with people. So when I'm in a space, I'll say, if you are white, and you are male, you get one question or comment. And that is it, you cannot ask it first, and you cannot ask it last. Because you've been conditioned, it's not your fault doesn't make you pay people, you know, not at all. But you've been conditioned to speak all the time, when you're not wanted when it's not valuable. [00:07:27] When it's irrelevant, it's not your fault, you don't know that it is you just is a gap in the space and you expected to fill it. And so I want you to be conscious about your input into the open talk time. And then also, if you are not white, and you're not male, you've also been conditioned to shut up. And I would invite you to say more than you might otherwise do. Just to try and work this out. It works there. I mean, every non white male in the audience good. Yeah, cuz it's like finally you're getting nice prick. Someone say me today, and all the white man economy. [00:08:04] This is there, [00:08:05] but I haven't had any problems with it. No one's ever sort of come to me and had a huge issue with it. And it does, it works, it makes those white men Shut up, think carefully about what it is that they want to ask me, I'm going to get one option, and to ask it properly, and then I'm I'm for it, I'm all for that, I think that's a good way to, to work some of the stuff and if you're in the business, social change, it's got to start with us, you can't expect your clients or your you know, your students or someone else to do it, we have to sort of be in the business of trying to do it ourselves. [00:08:38] So we talked about that we talked a bit about in terms of identity in the media that this grip, this isn't a grip for New Zealand. And what that means. I mean, there's a whole wealth of deconstruction about almost any ethnic group, I'm in New Zealand and Europe. [00:08:54] So you know, we sort of know what to make of that. But that's a very privileged position. To think that, you know, your national identity is your ethnic group. And I don't have anything to do with that. It's all tied into that thing. I don't have a culture, I don't know what it is, and you'll say lucky and all the rest of it. [00:09:11] Okay, so that's sort of one of the things that I use, I do have I do a slide about race and ethnicity, because a lot of people don't understand what the differences, they use the different words kind of interchangeably, and they're not the same. [00:09:26] And so in terms of race, like, you know, we all understand that the race has no literal meaning, right? So there's no, the genetic variation between a white person and a black person is less than a genetic variation between a tall person and a short person. So the actual genetic basis of race has no literal meaning that when we see people, and we make a social interpretation on how they look, and it's that that is what's sort of more more understood as race and we racism comes from. So we're not it's not about you know, you know, shape and measuring, the eyes are hidden all that crap that those working ethnography was used to do back in the back in the day, and sort of about a social interpretation of what that means. And I'm always interested in the terms not only in how you look, but in your language that you speak, in your accent and in your behavior. Now, you will all understand that there are certain accents in this country that are really valued. [00:10:24] Are you say that, say this? Can you say that, Oh, that sounds so great, then [00:10:28] it's usually French, Scottish, any of the kind of European countries, those accents are viewed very differently in accents from almost anywhere else. No one's asking Chinese to over [00:10:39] say nothing. Can you say this? Can you say that, [00:10:41] right? So exit is an important kind of features. It's not just about what you look like. It's also about some of these other things as well, if necessary, is, of course more about choice, then then just let social interpretation of how you look. I always think it's about being a mess expert. Naima, when I was 12, [00:11:04] I had to fill out something at the at the person was kind of mumbled at what it was. And they asked you what your ethnicity was. And I'm 38 and, and when I was 12, which would be [00:11:15] 80 something, I had to fill out the form and that was when we still use the blood quantum the fractions kind of definition, he brought that out. And, and that was before it was you know, before self identification really kind of took off. It was still this blood quantum. And they and they said, in order to be able to take that you MRT you had to be at least one 16th Marty, and I remember offering my schooling of being a bit of a, an outline that I was always very good at ness. And I remember thinking stuff. Yeah. And I remember thinking in my head, dun dun dun dun dun dun dun Oh, yeah. And coming out that I was more than one 16th again, yeah, could took that I was moldy. And so I always think sometimes ethnicity is about being kind of this mess expert, because you're always asked to kind of quantify the bits of yourself that are something in the bits of yourself that are something else. And what that means. And that in itself has a has an a similar assimilation agenda. Because if you can be your only one 16th Marty, then you're 1516 something else? And why not go with it something else? So it has all those kind of political connotations. But the bigger question is really, who was always asked to define himself. And that's what most Paki people have the greatest trouble with. Because when you start talking about their culture, and who their people are, and what their structures are, and what that means for the world, they start getting defensive, because they've never had to do that before. They're incredibly unsophisticated, and having those discussions. And so we've got a feel for them to try and help them and move them along and do exercises and get them doing stuff, that they're feeling good. [00:12:55] Because the whole point of this is that it's not about bad people. And that's real important. You know, you didn't what you can wake up tomorrow not be pharkya, you can't wake up tomorrow and not have white skin. But you have to understand that those things mean something doesn't make you a bad person. But we live in a in a society where those things kind of happen. There's not any bad people involved. It's about a structure that enforces that and trying to keep that because everyone's immediately wanting to say I'm wrong. I'm the privilege sometimes you can't even use that word. I'm not privileged, no one's done anything for me, my parents, my mother died when I was 10. And all the rest of it right. And it's not about what you and experiencing just as an individual, but as part of the whole structure. [00:13:35] Okay, [00:13:36] I use this concept of racism comes from an ethnic African American colleague, Mr. Jones. And this is her definition of racism, I really quite like it, because I think it's quite good. I've put the boats and that's not really the boats. So she defines it as a system of structuring opportunity and assigning value on the basis of the social interpretation of how we look. And I thought that's really good. Firstly, because it's talks about it as being a system. And so it's not an every person is a part of that system. Every every person here is a part of the white system of a white structure, not because we choose to be poor, because that is the structure that we've inherited. [00:14:14] I like to think about structuring opportunity, because that's true assigning value. That's true, and based on the social social interpretation of how we look. But I'm also interested in how we speak, how we behave, and what groups we are members of because I think those things are important as well. Okay. I just wanted to show you some of these new racism stats, because the whole [00:14:35] model minority, [00:14:36] I think it's a load of bullshit, I can see where there are some connections, economically, geographically, I think there are some, there's some validity to some of this kind of CO opting of what are the Asian grip into whiteness. But I wanted to show these are the two papers that I'm going to look at. [00:14:58] It's not going to be trouble kids, not too, too much work. The first one are from colleagues from Wellington. And they their survey has been the National Health Survey, and they've been able to put in some questions about discrimination. And the second one is about young people. So the second one is the youth 2007 survey that's gone around our high schools throughout the whole country. All the young people, all the people, young people, between the ages of 13 and 18, majority of them in between, from 14 to 17 years old. And we'll talk a bit about that. But the only two tables I wanted to show you. [00:15:40] Okay, so I get up. So, [00:15:43] these are the items and one of the new things about asking about racism, because when you say or if you had an experience of racism, and you don't make it any more specific than that, then many white people think that had an experience of racism for some was called the funky, right? So I could say one of the new things about when you're when you're asking discrimination Christians as they start asking for a site, so where is it happening, and what is happening with it with it when it occurs. So the first line here is about, [00:16:09] and this is [00:16:10] people who have experienced racial discrimination in their life. So it's not any more specific than that. So this is when you had a physical attack, [00:16:18] a verbal attack, [00:16:20] and then is the section which is empty treatment, secondary treatment, and health, and work and housing. Right. So those are the three days that have been looked at. And in this is the overall discrimination. [00:16:31] And I've [00:16:32] gone through and done all different colors, so everybody can [00:16:35] see the difference. [00:16:36] Okay, so physical check for money is very high. So 7.9% 5.4, [00:16:43] between verses 2002. And this is 2006. See, before I said this is the time that the important thing to remember for this is that in terms of overall discrimination, by modeling Pacific, Asian and European, then every group or discrimination is different recent exceed the agent group, and the Asian group, their prospectus, their self reported, discrimination is increasing. And that's [00:17:08] the only group in which that's happening. [00:17:11] To pick out the sort of specifics, [00:17:13] and [00:17:14] verbal attacks are very high. So that's being called a student name, and even parties have it. [00:17:22] This is what's important, because if you look at the [00:17:25] statistics, that's where the racism is, they're not even kidding, they have been discriminated against and, and health. [00:17:33] That's why you see it, they don't get discriminated against and work that doesn't even get to 2%. [00:17:37] And they are being discriminated, and housing, not at all the discrimination happens and being called names, that's not the same [00:17:44] as structured, that's an interpersonal net, [00:17:47] that is a different than the structural x in which all the other groups have pictured. [00:17:52] And I think that's really important. If you just asked that, right? [00:17:57] Oh, shit, like really racist. Everybody says things about everybody. That's actually not true. You know, we live in a racialized society, yes, but that doesn't mean that every group is racist or experiencing it in the same way. And so I think that that's really important, you know that the pocket discrimination [00:18:17] happens at the verbal attacks [00:18:19] for every other group that happens at all the structural elements. So the biggest thing for the Asian group is this as a dramatic increase in discrimination reported at work from work and the work environment that increasing along the sun was healthier, that's gone from 2.3 to 4.8%. Work From 8% to 11.8%. So that's going up a lot. And then housing from four to five for free. For the body for the current specific group that have a large massive discrimination in terms of work as well, money is not so much that and housing, moderating discriminated against a lot more in house [00:19:00] 9.8% for money and housing, [00:19:03] the almost any other group Pacific, a lot of these is in the workplace. And for agents sort of it's a proportional increase in every area. So what I think that that sort of goes to show is that [00:19:19] the only other thing is that they took, they put down here with the reporting one item, only two items, or three or more. So this is about the accumulation. This is about how many different kinds of discriminatory beats you're experiencing. And of course, its highest mental body. [00:19:37] But now, it's time for my commodity, but it's decreasing. But a month later, it's increasing almost double. And so I mean, I had a chat with the authors, and we've tried to figure out what it is that's made this dramatic increase in the Asian group net for years. And I think we think it comes down to two things. One is that the exposure is increasing. So the actual events aren't going reason that it's happening more and more, or to that. And there is evidence to support this, that as an aggregate group, the Asian population don't always have a lot of faith, answering research, surveys and questionnaires are confidently so they may not always tell the truth, for fear of a whole range of other things of things somehow, for me, to get them coming back to sort of feature that has been noticeable in the Asian group. And we think maybe that has been changing as well, with this many more than actually answering truthfully. And the key thing to remember about this is it doesn't tell us who the perpetrators out there. So it may be a lot of stuff, it may be a lot of other whole lot of other things going on. [00:20:46] So that's amongst adults. And then the last one that I wanted to show you was amongst young people, because I think some of the it's actually pretty [00:20:55] out of it. And I mean, some of you in your introductions had talked a bit about it as well. [00:21:02] But anyway, [00:21:04] so this is done with all those high school students, these nine, nearly 10,000 of them throughout the whole country. This is about head experience isn't necessarily related bullying, [00:21:15] and the Asian group is by far and away the biggest [00:21:18] area, and that's 8.5% of all the Asian kids that answer that super conspiracy [00:21:24] publicity for London. It's a huge, huge problem. [00:21:27] And honestly, anybody dressing it To be honest, [00:21:32] treated unfairly by the police. Well, no surprises that it's Marty is that a feature in the highest but Asian, Asian to as five 5.4% of the kids spirit experiencing unfair treatment by the police, commodity 6.5. Pacific that's 7.5. So that's kind of high net group. And then by half professional, the highest is a month Pacific. So the game discriminated against them health, I think probably a lot of that has to do with language and a whole range of other things. So this whole kind of idea that [00:22:03] the Asian aggregate group when I say exit, because Asian is not an ethnicity, right, there's not even a city, it's just an aggregate name for a whole group of people from a range of different places with a range of different ethnic groups. [00:22:18] And so this whole idea that that group is the model minority, that I wouldn't want to be that that's not the model, experience the so there's a whole range of issues that we could be working with them. I think the model minority discourse can really work against us trying to address some of that stuff. [00:22:39] Okay. [00:22:42] Okay, so let's do an activity because, you know, that's how we roll. And everyone's been sitting for ages. [00:22:48] And [00:22:48] what I thought that I would do [00:22:52] is, um, firstly, we do what I do and which is we do it if if a racial and ethnic stereotype lust and if the title of the pack is, this doesn't mean that you believe them. This is just what you've heard. You don't have to believe that, you know, all these different stereotypes. [00:23:12] I don't know if we should write them or people can just remember in your head, but if I was to ask you what other ethnic stereotypes of Molly what would we say [00:23:26] to be all right, I reckon everyone's got nothing new to people here. So if we were gonna say that [00:23:37] right [00:23:41] yeah. I'm worried that that was the precedent will sit [00:23:50] somebody would ask about what are the what are the racial stereotypes of modern what would be what would be think that we're here? [00:23:58] Yanks [00:24:01] we love We love [00:24:07] the district court because on the court with my family from they have to call the Browns out by by initial [00:24:13] brown see. [00:24:19] Get you get [00:24:20] where I'm going with it. So you got this the jail thing? Anything else? [00:24:27] violence yet? [00:24:30] teenage pregnancies? Wow. [00:24:35] Dog lunches, right? [00:24:39] Yeah. [00:24:42] Okay, what do we want to say? What other kind of racial stereotypes of civic people? What would we say? [00:24:50] lazy? [00:24:53] Yeah. [00:24:56] tires. Yeah, fresh. [00:25:00] Christian steer taught me and it's true. What about if we were to say, what are the racial stereotypes of [00:25:10] rather than, say Asian? Although when you do say Asian it does, that works in the Paki of mind. Like you know, I don't know, really. But I know really Vietnamese people, you know, you get a two to you drill down too much, you start to lose them. So you gotta try [00:25:27] to wait for them. But you gotta you gotta remember I like as a population. Like I said, they are incredibly unsophisticated at the stuff they don't know half of what we know. We would experience more stuff around ethnicity, after from what we've experienced just after lunch time today, and then hope you had a different life. So, you know, you gotta put the hand out and say that they kind of take it. [00:25:56] us together in groups, Asian, Africa, and South America. [00:26:04] South America so many times and I am actually [00:26:13] very good. [00:26:21] Yeah. [00:26:32] Asia knows it like Oh, [00:26:36] yeah. And ethnic. He said, wow. [00:26:47] Yeah. So thinking of any of those groups, what would be some of the racial stereotypes some of the racial or ethnic stereotypes of those groups? With those nagging Terry manches? Come on you can all do but much. [00:27:07] terrorists. [00:27:11] Yeah, [00:27:13] barbaric, [00:27:13] barbaric. [00:27:16] And educated Co. This, [00:27:19] right? [00:27:23] The chicken? [00:27:24] Yeah, absolutely. And now what if we were to think about the racial stereotypes of white people? What if we were thinking about the pocket ethnic group in this country? What are some of the racist racial stereotypes we have of that group? [00:27:42] This is how this is how different different this group is. Because when I asked that question, about a five or 10 second silence [00:27:53] was coming. And I don't have anything to say. [00:27:59] Yes. [00:28:02] Fresh [00:28:12] ignorance. [00:28:24] Me the politicization of the great was tripping me up. [00:28:28] Because normally when you say that is rich, nice houses, good jobs. And actually, when you put them on the board, every different group that's not white, all of the racial stereotypes and negative and orientation. They're all bad. And you start talking about the white people. But you notice when you put the words up, maybe in a wide audience, they're all positive markets, right? The rich, and they got good jobs, they are well educated, you know, you name it. So we got a few, we got a few discipline. [00:29:06] Yeah. [00:29:11] So I mean, that's sort of one of the one of the examples that I use about trying to get people Firstly, to understand that actual racial stereotypes of white people are quite difficult to come up with when you think about I mean, you guys are not, in that round. We're kind of like I say, you're fluent speakers. And they're accurate. So you know, it's not quite that. But by and large, white people never had to think about that and had to think about, oh, you know, they understand all the racial words that they use everyone else, they may not believe them, but the discourse that they can draw on anytime they want, but a sort of an understanding about their own kind of stereotypes is actually really, really new to them. The other thing I wanted to sort of talk about was one of the terminologies. And you know, you always know whether you've made it in the world or not when Microsoft Word recognizes you, 99. I've got to be a senior researcher and I had never read for you. For you like Well, yeah, well, no, I never read for you. But I've been reading for you for my PhD. And you know, you've made it in the world when Microsoft Word will tell you how to spell that Christmas names. Like for you it is in Microsoft Word. That's a word that names a word, and it will tell you how to spell it in and when I've been thinking about some of these terminology, so we look at the word underclass. underclass. Microsoft Word recognizes underclass as a word, that's the word, underprivileged, that's the word. And one thing that I always show is, and you're not going to see it because something's happened to the thing here. [00:30:50] Right? Now you can see it. So kind of purplish, let's work on the class word. And the classes win over class over look at red lines. [00:31:04] And Microsoft really saying, that's not a word. That's not a word. So why is it that underclasses a word? overclass is not a word, and a privilege is a word. overprivileged is not a word, why do we not recognize those things because as a society we don't look at over anything's we only ever look at the under. And I think it's really important when we're talking about underclass, we, when we're being told these words by politicians and others that we think about, the actual term under is a relational word. It's, it's a, it's a, you're under the white definition, somebody else is over. That's what the word means. It's a it's a, it's a retrospective. My riches speak about the color changing relational proportional word. Right. So if you've got one, you've got to have the other but we never talk about the other, the other overprivileged? [00:32:00] Yes, [00:32:00] I would like to say this such things thing over Christmas, I think that you can be you can have privilege, but I think it's not about the to privilege or the privilege of brings. [00:32:16] And it's not about like giving away privileged stuff. [00:32:21] You know, I have seen like a lot of [00:32:24] white, say, if you want to call it where people try to [00:32:30] be my that you guys, and I'm going to give away all my privilege. But this is not possible. [00:32:37] In a way to Case in point, you got it in a way to Case in point, you've got it, you want to give it away, you know, because I don't want to be treated like this anymore. I want to be real, I want to be treated like everybody else. [00:32:51] Regardless, I say. [00:32:57] So it's the too, too much. [00:33:05] Is [00:33:06] happens and becomes too much. And then over the course of your privilege at the expense of [00:33:14] something, but it's not It seems to be one at a time in your life, said stuff. [00:33:24] That is cool. But it really is that dynamic, because you can see it as it sees other people, you know, you can only see it to [00:33:42] corruption and how is it that [00:33:51] is not [00:33:52] from from state to state, the violence [00:33:57] now was sold by leads to King's College is very young school, then probably strength, we've got King's College from privileged white majority that go with that and have the trends. So for the main station, they have their own special little store, they had their own special little people that come on, and make sure to take them from the ground people that are at the same station so that they can avoid mixing them with a brown population. Now that tells me that there was an old privilege on a particular group, because every other person supposed to be in the system. If there are no bus or train saw, there's only 400 pages for mankind so so that the guy can get off, enjoy, get off the ground some parts of society, because that's how they are doing today against the compound of regional touring Australia, which increases if you look at it. [00:35:01] Obviously, from the German colonial research people, and being ethical, and obviously we do human being and he wants us to see that. [00:35:10] We look forward to that. So they're leaving to kill us and you're going to remove that because we're not being human until the end, they will just help us they will use this device counted same uses, because they will be over publisher for in relation to see the rest of them strategy Australia's down to focus on whites who don't see themselves as they see themselves as the two strategies and don't get the indigenous population because of who they can't all say no to my training. But we have no jurisdiction, there was removed the dad from Nikon editing 42, it was one of the first case can against a tricky breach. So you've been a privilege, we have a bit away from us from the day. [00:35:58] So there is too much privilege sometimes. And New Zealand wife don't appreciate the fact that they come into the school with [00:36:08] your mommy, there was until recently know that song generations of the original. We all know that having a solid day like you don't know that the stolen generations of Molly, way to put up the mood. And we had our universities falsified on legal documents Tiger challenge so that we've been legally adopted by whites, because I swear it is better for us that was because that is still deemed as being via via [00:36:38] any replay. That was was [00:36:40] was I was taken away and I know long lost I'm not hating. Now, another thing is called direction. And it means that we can restore our integrity and remove institutional unemployment. And then we are privileged different because of what because they make the rules. They define the rules. And next slide who has trouble jumping just [00:37:05] asleep? This is my humble. [00:37:09] Yeah. [00:37:12] I know. I see what you're saying, though, because I think that is a debate that we that we are often having in our sympathetic talking about privilege is, you know, so does that mean we want we want white kids to be abused more? You know, that's not sort of, but I do think that, that the relativity is because the problem, you know, the problem with the whole concept is the idea the relativity is within it, you know, so there's no kind of all privileged group and underprivileged group, this, this whole kind of continual people. And I mean, of course, every single individual, every individual is oppressed in one way and privilege and other ways. But what we're talking about is how population groups as a whole of society, are kind of treated and understood. And I think, you know, I think it would be fair to say that, that Okay, everybody, as a as a, as a skin, Marty, I know that there are ways that I get treated before people understand that I'm always that will be different to others. And I think so, every person who has white skin, irrespective of your ethnicity, you got something in their bank account that you can you can you can call on when you need to, you know, and I think that if you think about privilege, in terms of class, in terms of data, [00:38:19] in terms of [00:38:20] occupational outcome in terms of homeownership, privilege gets concentrated more and more and more into the elites. And I think that the kind of current kind of economic and political structures that the world has, and is moving more towards this, increasing that. So there has to be a way that we can kind of understand the relativity of privilege in the similar way that we understand the relativity of disadvantage, because I think that that disadvantage scale, everybody's an expert, you can ask anybody what that means. And I'll have an idea about it for you. But I think the over the over example, people don't really understand what that means and the complexity of it. [00:38:58] And I mean, the biggest concern that white privilege is that most white people apart from the color of the skin, and not advantage by anyway. So the whole kind of privilege argument is detrimental to everybody in it, not just the people at the bottom. Because the people at the top, you know, they don't often develop coping strategies. I mean, one of the things I've been in my selfish moments laughing my ass off about this, the whole pray for finding the, quote, price of bombs thing being sold to the Chinese. Now as a model, I'm like, you know, yes, half a dozen or something or six of the other, you know, what, what is it? What, what real difference does it make to Marty about that, but you see, the white people are going ape shit about this [00:39:48] online [00:39:49] about the Chinese buying, you know, what's being offered to them, buy another packet to sell. And so in my system moments in my, you know, my south of South Coast, oh, [00:40:05] laughing my ass off, because it's like, Oh, you guys sound like a bunch of nowadays, you know, [00:40:11] whining get over. [00:40:15] So you know, you can sort of see just how [00:40:18] transients that kind of privilege can be. And once you're on the receiving end, what then is your attitude? And how well can you throw a line out to the other groups that have been assigned the same thing for a long, long time. And David via [00:40:44] and then [00:40:45] the latest thing has been that James Cameron, who was the director of avatar has bought some property that guys [00:40:54] have seen an interview, and I'm like, Oh, my God, please, I was just devastated where I knew that guy is moving to [00:41:01] my gosh, that, [00:41:02] to me is a big a consent in the crates of bombs. But you know what I mean, it sort of I've just been laughing my ass off at all the packet who've just been outraged about it. And like the starting to feel really like vulnerable in their lane. And some of them have even been starting to make the leap with Oh, this must be harmonic field. And we're like, hello. [00:41:22] In fact, [00:41:23] you know, I know many modern who have got a bit more faith in the Chinese might have that they might have a better deal of the Chinese in their head was with pockets. That's just that's just us. I don't know if this, whatever. [00:41:36] So I mean, yeah, cool. Shall we carry on, I've just got a couple more things to do. And one of the things that I like to do is, I need to try and get white people talking about the culture, because they don't think they have any, we don't have any culture. But often in the in the national discourse, if you hear about what is key culture. And if you ask that Professor, extraordinary Google, to you under pitches, Google pitches, what Kim era I did a search for Kiwi on New Zealand culture monoculture, pocket culture, kiwi, New Zealand, and these are sort of some of the things that I came up with. And what I do is I get a whole bunch of my rickshaw, whatever, people to start thinking about these images, because I use pitches, because it's easier for people to kind of get, because they don't understand when you talk to them about culture. What that means it's the light, isn't it? what everybody does, it's lonely. That's the point. [00:42:30] So I use pitches, and I try to get white people to talk about their culture. Now, one of the problems that I've found with this, is that almost exclusively exclude anyone from the discussion that's not packing and not mounting, and I'm not quite sure how to how do I work so that you know so that everyone can be included in that? Because often you put the picture up and then people that again? Yes, it is Kimmy cultural? No, it isn't. Mario pack? Yeah. So haven't quite worked out? How do I get non Marty non pharkya talking about Kiwi culture and feeling included in it and part of that discussion. It's something I'm really trying to work with. And so what I do is I show them these pictures. [00:43:15] God, I hate this bloody new windows. Right click, click. [00:43:23] Ok. So I showed them these pitches right in a heartbeat and sort of see it. And then I get them to say is that hey, we culture, modern culture, pocket culture, what culture is that? And you know, what do we think about it, trying to get them? So there's some chips. [00:43:45] I don't know where that came from. And the most prestigious thing, but possibly, yeah. Is that is that Kiwi culture? That does that Kiwi culture? [00:43:57] That's a whole lot of phenomena for sale, little white tags on it. So is that the culture? That sort of, sort of like, you know, lets people kind of quiet but like I say, I'm trying to work out a way to include the non white non Marty in the discussion, because obviously, the whole point is that they don't feel they're not made to feel that they're part of QE culture. That's kind of the whole point of what I'm trying to work on. And I haven't worked out how quite to [00:44:30] the person. [00:44:34] Well, I mean, the whole point, I mean, it's funny, because the whole point of the exercise, this is actually aimed at White people to actually try to get them to understand we talk about Kiwi culture or New Zealand culture. Often it's a it's a proxy for your shit, and not anyone else's shit. You know, and it's trying to get them to see that this is really your stuff. When you say, well, that should never come to you say lucky this what you're talking about, you know. And so in a way, it's not, it's not for you people of color to actually offer the that still I want them to, I want people to feel that they can be part of it. Because often they're told they're not part of it. And I mean, part of this and I mean doing this is to try and get white people to understand that they're not part of it, but I'm not quite sure I'm doing achieving it that [00:45:21] culture and like anything that's not anything that's monoculture. [00:45:28] It's multiple, so keep your culture like somewhat of a stick, you put some practices, so enjoy [00:45:35] it that can be part of the project was Mark. [00:45:37] Yeah. Well, I'll show some slides. I've got some slides of Packer and I think that's a perfect example of exactly when in when there is owned as can be cautious when it's definitely not. But this is [00:45:54] a very quiet felt. Okay, we'll go like a golden [00:46:04] I've never felt like comfortable. Where I'm like, What if someone says so what's the significance of [00:46:13] that going on around your neck? But as an expat living in Japan, I [00:46:19] feel that somehow display my TV doesn't fit, like some of the papers and also keep it [00:46:26] Yeah. [00:46:31] Yeah, yeah. [00:46:37] I'm never [00:46:40] overseas, right? [00:46:44] Yeah. [00:46:46] Yeah. [00:46:49] Yeah. [00:46:50] culture but nanosecond. [00:46:55] Yes. [00:46:58] Really? I've always grown up [00:47:03] with J. Lewis will. [00:47:08] Actually, yeah, it doesn't call me. And here, Zealand, Jay. [00:47:18] Yeah, I remember when I first went to Hong Kong, and I love Hong Kong, Hong Kong, like my favorite world city. And we had gone me and my twin had gone to Hollywood, you know, he was doing a massive shopping. And we were in the Jade store. And the man was some, you know, was the Jake stuff. And he wanted to have a look at our little under his microscope and stuff. And, um, he told us that was be great. [00:47:48] be great. [00:47:49] You know, and, [00:47:52] and I remember looking at night, and I mean, my pistols like, you [00:48:00] thought was like, Oh, well, you know, we're good with it. Because it's more than the thing itself. You know, I think primetime is a room. It's a real touchy one. I'm never sure. You know, like, we've had discussions in our research group about when we've had people in, and then that will overseas guessing and they've Lyft, should we give them a pile of money? And I always thought, yes, they need it, they need it more than anyone else, we should get pocket kind of because they need the spiritual significance of what it means. But I sort of come to think a little differently about it. I'm not too sure. [00:48:34] Now you know about about that? [00:48:37] Um, yeah, I got nine ounces, the jury is out. What I do know, though, is that the more that we as a nation are working towards restitution of Marty rights, the more those kinds of things will become acceptable I feel. So the more that you're worried that the country is accepting of Marty rights suit things protecting body language, returning modern a, the more that model able to do that, I think the more [00:49:08] the less concerned they are about some of those other side of symbolic things. I think you take the plastic tricky thing. It's a real perfect, really, really good example. Now. [00:49:18] What's that? [00:49:20] Well, some of them are, we know the difference. We can pick out which ones were made by particular modern artists, but the techie has been a new was not new. But it's been reinvigorated by a lot of modern artists. And that kind of mid 90s. Up until now. So you had this whole cluster tricky thing which a New Zealand did in the 1960s. And I'd give it to people and I'm into seeing them everywhere. And you know, and there was a real stink about that about, from Marty about that. And so you saw them disappear. And now they're slowly being kind of coming back and nicely, plastic turkey everywhere, and money that seems to have as much of a problem with it. And practice think that this because you're coaching information is to start with, and it's kind of like that whole thing about the Walker, the Tucker Walker. That was another good example because the point for Marty is that it is always about who is controlling the process, who owns it, who is getting something from it, what does it mean what prices have been followed? Who has the power and then the materials and what you're using a kind of secondary things? It's like Tamiflu. And that's the other thing I noticed dynamic and topical every other person has something like that Rugby World Cup I got this done at Rugby World Cup and and they were like so these guys were busy like all day every day they were down the Italians and all manner of these people getting tactical to take home and I never sort of thinking having this discussion with a practitioner Danny thinking how do you feel about that about part of yourself as the practitioner going on someone they're going to go all over the world about it and his and his his theorizing was that well we are control this this is part of our destinies part of us being who we are and sharing it with other people that's different than someone using our put the actual forms that the bits and pieces that you're doing a kind of secondary to that process. So always find a free thinking about power and those things. Often that's where we find the legitimacy who what is a legitimate kind of plastic turkey if you like and what isn't and what does that mean? So I think it's Yeah, I don't want to make it about the procreation stuff. Because I think the cultural appropriation stuff is to me incredibly complicated and we often we often make to think about it and really simplistic ways. Either it is or it isn't or it's good or it's not for your shift or you're not you know, and I just think it's much more complicated than that is my thing of it. I didn't know that it will generate such discussion but that is that key coaches everyone know what that is? [00:51:49] This is Tony monitor [00:51:53] well that [00:51:56] that always gets a whole lot of white people talking [00:52:04] This is outrageous fortune. Right? And one of the I mean, you know and my selfish moments to be perfectly honest, I fucking loved it. I thought it was fucking fantastic. Because finally we're shining a light on white criminals [00:52:26] dfj where you know you let us help people with it. But you know in all the crimes I did the kind of petty crimes not really hitting anybody just Robin shit. You know? You notice how I sort of frame that way? I thought it was a fascinating look at it white culture to be honest, white Kiwi culture and all the models that were fucking choice [00:52:45] right [00:52:46] over here like me the awesome. So I don't know, I thought it was interesting. But that kind of gets a lot of white people talking about whether this culture or not and the biggest people who are against that, we still come to this [00:53:01] that was waste the cultural anything else like that at all? [00:53:30] Yeah. [00:53:34] But you know, what they went and did, after Outrageous Fortune finished, all the producers from that show winning created another show. And it was it was cool, because only had like two episodes, but the whole show was like oh my god, you people have so misunderstood what the show was about. So there's new show was about a family of gods and they are these kind of own great thoughts. And they all unlike Oh my god, he has an Of course they was to be precise. And then it was like this is bullshit. And finish it was king. And also like, and that what they thought was that everybody that was outrageous fortune, would watch that. And I'm like, Oh my god, how could you totally misunderstand, Outrageous Fortune is about a woman, you know, who's trying to keep your shit together, and all the family together, and everyone to go and see a whole bunch of white men behaving badly and treating women like shit, we can just go I saw that. [00:54:34] Everybody was watching [00:54:38] me to watch this, to understand this and so happy you kind of miss it. But anyway. [00:54:45] What about that? This is [00:54:47] like one of the most well known pitches of the Monte battalion. I think when they were in Italy, [00:54:53] when I put that, because of all the kind of contested areas of money, IDC into the national being the things that sort of really seem to be entrenched. [00:55:08] Right. So the kind of sport that seems to be a valid model identity in the national scheme, and war, anything to do with war and fighting and the army. And particularly the mighty battalion is very revered in terms of the kind of the greater Kiwi and I always find that kind of interesting what that's about. But definitely that put that in about modern culture. [00:55:33] And you can't see that but that's purple over. [00:55:38] I don't quite know whether I'm asking people got Kimmy culture but the zucchini fruit, or the Pavlova or the ice cream container. [00:55:48] Yes. Okay. I gotta hurry up. Oh, okay. Um, so these are the kind of three pitches I use about haka. This one, I said, is that Kiwi culture monoculture What? Everyone's always pretty this multi culture. [00:56:02] I put that one up is that key culture, modern culture that often gets Oh, no, no, no, this qubit culture. You know, he was pretty sure about that. And then I put this one up. Now is that human culture, Monica, this is the this is the black folks who by the way, four times the consecutive World Champions. [00:56:22] One after the other, [00:56:23] even when the Indians are if you cut the competition they still want inside this is they're performing a hacker. And when I ask people is that Kiwi culture, modern culture what? There's a resounding silence. No one knows where to put that. So that's always a kind of interesting one about Hanukkah. When is it owned by Kiwis? When is it not in what does that kind of mean? What's the difference? [00:56:47] Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, let's see this is this is the kind of stereotype of haka that it's a main form and that's just totally bullshit. But the particular hacker that's used all the timers, [00:56:59] yeah. [00:57:01] Here we coach up for a town [00:57:07] that New Zealand that [00:57:11] Tony Bennett is, db so know. [00:57:16] Is that part of the Conchords? That is that Kiwi culture that always gets people discussing stuff about that this the hero parade. And you know, the surprising thing when you start putting this picture up, is that this is kind of a collection of modern a party I freakiness this whole key we tried for five minutes. [00:57:41] immediately say no, that's not to be culture. That could be any way that could be San Francisco. [00:57:48] often speak up and then [00:57:54] what tribal parameters of the fuck with China got really enhanced over the holidays? I don't know why, but I just started seeing them everywhere. [00:58:03] What about that? What [00:58:06] is that key? We coach us and all these kinds of things that you know, [00:58:14] Japanese people, I actually really believe that the mot tribe, nation, nation believe that I was like, oh, my goodness, [00:58:23] like the jerseys [00:58:26] to take up is that Kiwi culture. [00:58:30] That's the geyser to do. And often you find that the most uncontested pitches, other natural pitches. So the ones that I just thought the legend in a way that makes perfect sense is that cawood culture that was shot. So the white people love that I usually want to make a call either way when that person comes up [00:58:51] the company, this is the key batch. [00:58:54] And it's very interesting when I have to present you the culture often it's like Yes, yes. And how many people have a bad [00:59:05] is about? [00:59:07] That's right. [00:59:10] You know? [00:59:17] Yeah. Well, the historic aspect is really important, because it's sort of a validation. You've been here for a long time, despite what you're saying. Yeah. So the whole holiday batch thing is passed down from family to family. [00:59:33] Yeah, so the whole batch thing, What is there? Is there Kiwi culture? And? And interestingly is that I think that that's, that's becoming a kind of a mythology. because so few people actually have that and part of the family anymore, but [00:59:52] like, it's not [00:59:55] reckons treasure remote users. It's like you actually go. [01:00:01] Yes. [01:00:07] I think it's something as far as I can buy it shoes. [01:00:12] Heavier recreations. I was a big fan. [01:00:17] Here, all the way always. Yeah. Recreation time is a real good indicator to get people talking about [01:00:27] that kind of stuff. [01:00:28] Yeah. [01:00:31] So yeah. [01:00:37] We'll see. or [01:00:42] more, but at the end of the day, right. [01:00:49] Yep. So that's, and then the last one I put in was this, which is the Chinese Garden, the donate and donated. And apparently, it's under rules, great hopes be removed, because they're running out of money, and the council doesn't want to fund it anymore. And so I'm interested in what people say about that kind of stuff. So that's kind of just the cultural stuff that I've been doing. And that's all I think I've got time to talk about this week's more stuff data to think about, but like I say, this group is kind of, over and above the kind of average. But one thing that I will say I'm doing the research, the privilege research project that we have found that's been really quite surprising, is there's a lot lyst denial, all the international issue tells you that why people don't deny this shit. They don't deny it till the cows come home. And there's a little bit of that here. But by and large, I find pocket people and they had a pattern over if I can buy what we're talking about, they understand it, you know, and, and I've had a lot of them come up to me later. And they've said, You know what, that is so true. It's so true. And it's so important that we start talking about that stuff. There's been a lot of that, you know, like, I was surprised like I Are you there, we're going to be assholes, and you get the occasional one, you know, but by and large, I found a lot less than I than I thought. [01:02:09] Yes. [01:02:11] And put economically woman and predominantly young, but they have been a couple of main but generally the younger people. And and also they're quite professionally oriented. So and I mean, this is a key part of party culture, right? So key part of packet culture, when they meet each other was first thing they asked, What do you do? You know, so their work life, their professional life is incredibly important to who they think they are. And so so often when we think are you going to know the treaty, and you say, Oh, it's because it's the country you want to live in, and it's the listener there, they've been shipped to them, don't be shipped to whatever happened years ago, whatever. But if you say to them, this understanding this stuff will make you a better professional, oh, they're all in there, you know, because that's, and sometimes I think getting this stuff across, we need to understand what are the cultural sparks for them, right, because we know the cultural box for us, and it's none of that shit. But for them, that stuff's important. So if you can get the information across, in the way that the culture tells them is important. And that has to do genuinely with the proficiency. They're very interested in money. So if you can make it, anything you read in the papers, got a cost analysis, right? Anything will tell you how much it's gonna cost. You know that that is a real key feature in the culture. [01:03:23] That its individual, it's about you as an individual, if you can understand some of those basic stuff, it can make the translating the message that much better. One of the last things that I just wanted to mention, if people interested I can send it to you was this delicious little booklet that someone sent me from 1985. But it was first published in 1976. And this this little booklet, it was produced by the Pacific committee of what was then the Department of Labor. Right now in the 70s and 80s, this country had a huge policy of inviting mainly Pacific migrants, but migrants memory but mainly from the Pacific to come to the country to fill the kind of the workforce shortage there we headed, we're having a manufacturing, but we needed some, you know, some some clips to come and fill the sort of button run a jobs, factory jobs. And so a lot of people came here. So what the Department of Labor thought would be a good idea that produces little booklets that they would give out to all the different migrant groups that would come in so they would better understand the people that are coming into the country. So I found this little booklet that's called understanding pack is. [01:04:33] It is fuckin delicious people. And one of the things that I just mentioned it very briefly, and then I'm off. [01:04:43] Go. [01:04:45] So here's the contents. And this is shit that you just never even thought of, because it sort of tells you some helpful hints for the work situation. I'm working with packages, social attitudes and customs packet character, package society. [01:05:02] Okay, so if you talk about package society, these are the most common features 1986, right. And what's been really astounding to me is how durable these things have been developed, the coach is not developing shit, it's staying in these very kind of segments, these things are still really important. So the importance of economic life. And remember that they thinking that this speaking this to specific people, so they're trying to think what specific people like. So this book that kind of tells you a lot about what they think about Pacific people, as well as what they think about white people, right? economic life, religious life, that's pretty much to tell some of people, we don't take the church as seriously as your day. So you know, you need to recognize when you come here that people aren't going to sort of do that. Family Life and they sort of talk about the nuclear family, because you people have big families and we have small families, right? homeschool the council's political life, how to participate in the elections, your local MP. [01:06:03] Okay, this is the pocket character, right? This is the pocket character. This is not Justin was like, Oh, [01:06:12] I'm the pocket character [01:06:13] individualistic. [01:06:18] Yeah, it's like [01:06:21] individualistic next, practice Me, me run these things by them in your head, of course, and just see if they taking these little boxes, individualistic. Everything in Western society emphasizes the individual. Right? So that's really key. The next thing money minded. Right. So money is really important. Organize [01:06:46] sexual energy. [01:06:51] And I mean, part of it is actually trying to talk to some people, you can't come to work late. Right? Cool, that kind of stuff. But one of the things that I found really interesting, you go right to the bed and some helpful hints. And there are these kind of idioms that we all get package us right, that you can sort of work with, where are they and they kind of like the kind of like the little things that you can say one of them was like some of the phrases that park is with us, right? So one of them is have a shot. I'll give you a shot. And so you know, we're saved from somebody who wouldn't know what that means. So they translating all these kind of really common terms. And it really sort of showed me the naturalization of some of those language discovery discursive patterns that we use, right. Have a shout, bring a plate was another one, you know? Yeah, it was it was really interesting. So if anyone does want that understanding, practice

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