Dont Leave Out the I - Proud 2016

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[00:00:00] This podcast is brought to you by the Elgar Oceania rainbow human rights and health conference and pride [00:00:10] This is a little pouch that I carry around with me in my travels. So the first one is a heart. Nice talking about it yesterday. So when I first started doing my work and trying to work out who I was as an intersex person, I was already 40. And I didn't know what being an intersex person really meant I I'd been loaned by my doctor, [00:00:42] Medical Library hero shield stolen, and I'm not quite sure [00:00:47] about him to six, which is a very strange way of finding out who you are in the world because it was a highly mythologized matrix medicalized text. The premiere is very exciting, because for the first time, I realized that there were other people like me in the world, and I had just started doing my, what would become my healing work. And there was this notion of loving yourself, which in those days is but had no, but I was a very tough person. And I thought it was a load of horseshit. But they seem to all people were saying it was important. So I thought, okay, I'll try and learn about what the self lovers and it's Christopher Christopher, who is here Rana crystal shock, and I saw this hot, it was unusual, it stood out because it was unusual. And I've since found out it's regulated courts, and has tiny flakes of titanium in it. So I thought that was the right heart for me to pick up, that can go around this with the token, this little yellow shell, IN suit about it this money out of the Pacific, not a New Zealand show. But it's yellow, it's yellow is the color that some of us have claimed for being under six. So when I was growing up in the 50s, if the child was a boy, then Auntie netted low things. And if the child was female, and he netted pink things, if you don't know, and it wasn't a nice bright yellow like this, it was a lemon color for the child that you didn't know. So under six people around the world have been claiming the yellow color. And you'll notice on the front page of your book that we have what is becoming the recognize this that under six flag. And then in many cultures around the world, and we were talking about this this morning, that realities, ancient and known under six has been known in traditional cultures for not hundreds of years, thousands of years. And there's is into six figures from India, where the six tradition is as very well known and recognized. So just these are my little tongue that travel around the world with me and this remind me because sometimes being an intersex person that's tough, and particularly when you're working and, and these circles, at conferences like this, it's both wonderful, but also sometimes really hard because we're not that visible. So. So let's talk about and dcx. And the rainbow was in the rainbow, because it's a good way of describing so and to six people representing a wide range of medical conditions. I used to say 30, but it's well over 35. If we got a final finger for diagnosis, [00:03:58] locked, [00:04:00] what what drives the commonality, I guess and still connects all of us is the way medicine responds to people who have under six conditions. And the way medicine still responds at the moment is in a very narrow medicalized way. So it's a belief system that sees the world as a binary, male and female. And there's truth to that, like most people on planet news do identify as male or female. But it's a model that doesn't recognize that all the designs that we now know about gender and fluidity and the things that are very visible and prominent at this conference. And then underneath that is something much more complicated. And Denise will be talking to us during this workshop about some of the research that she's doing. Because I still don't totally understand what goes on for doctors, even though I am myself a clinician. [00:05:08] But my own thinking is that it's a very [00:05:12] disturbing situation for parents and for doctors. So when it's visible at booth and not a Windows, it's conditioned to visible at this, there's a disturbance and in medicine, and I'm a mental health professional, I put my hand back to students is not a good thing. That makes everybody feel very anxious. And there's a desire to understood. And so in the 1950s men, it's interesting when we think about the history, so immediately post war. And there was a desire on planet or is to get back to normal, whatever normal was. I agree with doctors led by a nice CLN clinician, sexologist dr. john money came up with this new theory. And I think to be fair, the more reading I do around on money has thinking got incorporated into the medical model, but wasn't driven totally by him. I think that's what I would understand now. Because notion was that gender is something that comes from our environment. So you could take in a child, and put them in a pink box. And so long as the parents responded appropriately, and congruent Lee, that child would grow up identifying as a female. Vice versa, you could put the child in a blue box, and they would grow up male. That is the same. That is the truth. I'm sure everyone's got What? How could anyone believe that? You know, that thinking is still there as part of our current medical model that is really ugly, and challenged. So the model went, and this is where I think it gets really interesting because john Manny, was also working with the transgender community, as I do as a [00:07:26] mental health professional. [00:07:28] And there is something was an the transgender community around dysphoria, and it's real. And when you see it, in somebody, that is, again, very disturbing, and somebody who experience with significant dysphoria, and I'm imagining that the people that john money worked with would have been people who experienced significant dysphoria have that ameliorated with surgery and with hormones. So it doesn't surprise me that he had this idea that for people to feel well and healthy, you need bodies that look [00:08:15] normal, [00:08:16] in terms of what the world says normality is male and female. So I want to both validate that dysphoria is real, because it is, and that is the experience for. And of course, in those days, when drug money was working, it was the transsexual community, transgender was not a term thing. In fact, very early, it was transvestite was the term he would have used. So it's interesting because we had this this wave and was under can make that mess with a trans narrative from the early days, but not within the clarity that they had been a wave. And so part of us model was the childlike it to be male or female, something that I don't disagree with, because we live in a binary world. And up until very recently, there were only two options in terms of identity documentary had to be male or female. But this idea of congruence comes into it as well. And it's interesting, because just after the Second World War, for the first time ever, we can do tiny, very delicate and detailed surgery. And we have the anesthetics to go with it. And this it all come out of the fact that we had had thousands of men mostly needing complicated plastic surgery, as the result of the war got released, things are coming to a point. So the thinking was, have to be male have to be female, and then know the limits also over the plastic surgery at the time. So the large majority of under six children during the 50s and 60s being assigned female, because it was very difficult, then it's still difficult now to construct normal male genitalia. And this idea of parents not feeling comfortable with your children, if they didn't look, no, say that the idea of putting you into a box. And as I said, it was easier to put people into the parent box than the blue box. And then notion of early surgery. A little bit about my story, and then we're going to break into groups and do some work. So I was born 1953 and New Zealand in 1953. The model that we were still using was the Korean model, this model of documentaries and arrived. So when I was born, and I don't know, but my under six conditions, if it ever existed as a diagnosis, it was either eaten by Rex lathered or burned up because that's what happened under six records. So being told an alarmingly large numbers, [00:11:26] IA my records, my childhood records were destroyed deliberately. [00:11:32] So initially assigned male and when I did my research, was that book that my doctor borrowed or stole from this library, there's a medical legal section and which was wonderful for me to find, because the Victorian thinking from what drove medical practice completely different was that it was considered an appropriate to deny their rights and privileges of being male to anyone who was possibly male. Okay, so because I had either a very small penis or a very large pleasure is that this was a possible expression of masculinity. So, of course, I was going to be a guy, which made I would have inherited the family farm and I would have grown up to be an old black, and it's really, really interesting. But the model was about to change and would change radically. And that first year of my life, so by the time I went back to a hospital for a leper automate, which was a very crude way that they worked out what your six was a nice days. And they had to delay it, because it was an I presume, a mess of operation and high risk. So it was delayed until I was one. So I had a leper automated, literally cut me open, had a look inside, and found a uterus. So 24 hour period, I went from being a little boy today. I mean, it would have been a recovery period. But I still think of my parents going up to Oakland with the sun, a child who was called Bruce, and then coming back with a child called Margaret, female. My parents never had any support to do that. And as I look, now, there was a period of time I went through, I was so angry at them, and not probably very nice to be around. But I think now, they actually did a brilliant job with the information that they had. So that's my story. And my narrative, I started doing this, this public work, when I first met Margaret, and the extraordinary team that was then at Wellington, sexual health, which in that era was part of the Wellington hospital. unit was in an old building down on Adelaide road. I had been the manager of rage, no civil defense. So I was very comfortable and confident. And I have media since I've had lots of training, my original training was is the educator, people had no idea that this that I was behind the screen that I put to the world, that what I would get really quickly was that that I couldn't change anything about my past. That was not possible. And I realized the thing that had done the most damage to me wasn't the surgery that would go That's horrible. And I will live with that for the rest of my life. What had done terrible damage to me and to my family was this lion and the secrets that are just not impacted profoundly are made, it affected my siblings. And it affected that community that I grew up and my relationship with my extended family, and I thought were like something that I can change. Now, what I've learned in my extraordinary journey and around the world, because I've met lots and lots of people as that, as indeed has been said, the innocence community as a rainbow within itself. So the truth is, as adults, most intersex people see themselves as a standard. So they would identify the majority as male or female. And with the net, it's like the rest of the population, the overwhelming statistic is people would see themselves as heterosexual. So here I am, [00:15:47] bearded, [00:15:49] gender non conforming, queer, identified and disabled person, you know, and I didn't know how I would fit and that wider, larger and dcx community. And it wasn't until four years ago, when I was invited to a conference in America, where the overwhelming people in the audience were sets and heterosexual. So most of the couples that were there were married, and they had many of them had their children there. And so I went into that room very nervous, I felt like an outsider and felt a little bit like fraud. And I certainly felt that that would not be a safe place for me to go. Until we started talking and sharing stories, and then I'm reminded of what we're not I was talking about, it seems like days ago, but it's actually what I need a day and a half ago, at an opening when he was talking about difference and creating, you know, a planet where all of us have a place and can be safe. So I went in and gave my speech about being non binary to people that look to me extraordinarily straight, and, you know, a world that is not mine, and that I wouldn't be comfortable there. And as I'm talking, I'm looking at this waterfalls in the room, and nearly everybody's crying, the guys are crying, the women are crying. And I started to realize that the commonality of a narrative of pain of being invisible and not having a place so many of the woman in that room, I would come to know, Heather condition called ice. And where people have ended, we don't take the language we get very clumsy because which is coming to have male bodies, but the body doesn't respond to the male hormones. So they grow up looking like woman and identifying as woman. And traditional response to this is because doctors are very disturbed by someone who looks like a female who has Tuesday's coming up with the idea that they might turn into cancer. So we have to take them out of it's like, yeah, so depressed. So we'll cut all those off. And testes, often testicles get cancer. So we'll cut all those off as well. No, it's really interesting. We just dealt with indices people, and these extraordinary women, they straight one woman from Middle America, my system head tattoos, and that I reclaim movement in America. And many of these women had beautiful orchids tattooed on their bodies to symbolically mark where the stakes have been taken. And the woman hate because often these conditions originated. So the past. So the young children, and now growing up in a very different environment where the moms and dads, were saying to doctors, no, you're not taking the test is true, because these produce hormones that the bodies need, yeah, will monitor and will check. And it looks like there's a cancer developing MIMO deal with that. But we knowing now that that's not necessary. So I want to honor that now. And to six community and we probably pretty well represent that diversity sitting here in the room, that amazing rainbow within the intersex community. And it's really important for our allies to be aware of that, that within this community, there is a lot of diversity. And within this community of intersex people, there is hit people. Now, I've just I can't believe this. seven weeks ago, I was in America. Several weeks ago, I was at a conference in Chicago. And the largest govt a conference in the world, four and a half thousand delegates. [00:20:12] And we had quite a large gathering event to six years. And they were in charge of the the material for the conference. So they produce these buttons and the baton say LGBT q that is m green and a so it says that is for under six not invisible. So they were there in the car, outrageously and very proudly visible and the six. And people were asking a what is the a stand for? And the SH Yes, we're really, really clear that A stands for our lives. Because most people live in communities where there is not a community. They live by themselves. And they all knew these young people, they're important to their lives. So it's wonderful that we're sitting here with with you. Because our and our allies will be in the queer community, our allies will be. So this service last night where where I was telling you, you know, to be in a church with so much warmth from the Salvation Army Community to me when I was growing up the Salvation Army was the enemy. And it was a community that was doing a great deal of harm to my family. So So again, that and this room was this, all these people and I'm being hugged by these people in uniform. And that was that was unusual. [00:21:36] So I guess what and the six as doing in the movement, it's the kind of piece that moves around making sure that no one's getting too comfortable. Because there's there's a narrative and a truth here. That's that's a bit like MIT period, you know, don't don't put anything into a box. And I think it invites us into that. That will that Renata was talking about when he was talking so beautifully. Wednesday night as a it's not the world that we're living in at the moment. It's absolutely not. Yeah, and I am on that boat, and he would love to be still alive when we get to it. But maybe that means I have to come back for another life. Because I think we're nowadays right. We are on that journey. But it might take us a while to get there. So then I've done enough talking what what I would like us to do now is just break into small groups. And we were talking about, you know, what does our community need to do to recognize that, that I so this afternoon, there's going to be an opportunity for us to talk on the plane, right? Probably not very long. And depending on who's controlling the mic with a week it was thinking about better life, then you may fizzling is not fair. You didn't control the time, and I've only got 20 minutes everybody else got lotsa will try and make sure it's fairly apportioned. But I would like a voice that comes forward for I'm not going to speak from somebody else who is in disease. And we can help know, right that like what what is the key points that we need to say back to everybody to make sure that everyone knows that the is here, and maybe something for the people to be reminded so we can start that process just talking in small groups. If you've got questions, certainly you guys happy to answer questions as well. So we can be sort of a bit like a panel to Dr. [00:23:48] How much longer if we got [00:23:52] half an hour? To 12? Yeah. So for not quite minutes. [00:23:55] Yeah. David talking for 10 minutes. And then we'll think of what extraordinary astounding things we're going to say this afternoon. [00:24:04] It is as it says, You feedback from your talking and your groups. If there's questions within the feedback in these guys were Yeah. [00:24:15] So if you have a question for one of some forensics person running, that you'll come comfortable answer. [00:24:21] So I'm going to suggest the empty seats crew make their own group and then the rest of you have your groups. And I'm making some assumptions here because there might be an intersex person here that is not out yet. And that's absolutely fine. You don't have to, but if you want to come out, then this would be a safe place the don't [00:24:42] know I've got a tactic money. I hope you agree with me, I've just, I'm going to write everything that people say on the board. [00:24:52] So if you've made notes at the end, as you [00:24:57] guys know, XDM [00:25:00] so I'm photographing. [00:25:01] All right, so people just come around and Thomas right move, we don't have lots of times, and let's go quickly just got one blanket statement, we came up with a whole bunch of things. But the big one we decided was diversity, education, specific banana, six, to the Medical Teaching establishments. [00:25:24] We identified many other contexts, we're [00:25:29] diversity, education would be useful. But we feel that specifically to help them to six people, in parents of six children, the medical fraternity, the strongest target that we can, okay, the media was probably a second. But [00:25:47] we all give the risk of excellence, [00:25:50] diversity, education and medical savings, and secondary is educating media. [00:26:00] Can I say one prayer group, we talked about how awesome that has been that this conference has [00:26:06] had into six voices and six workshops and better visibility and philosophy for this this time, they've had so much exposure to that. And that's largely because money has been one of the main organizers of the conference. And that, that's incredible. But that's not okay for this to be a one off special occasion that needs to be in all the conferences and stuff that is organized. So even when into six people and and the organizing committees or you know, that the initial table, that people are still going to be raising them and it's to be to be visible as they need to be invited [00:26:40] to get the high [00:26:43] conferences to be we specifically meaning within the LGBT community. [00:26:50] And they don't have to say I [00:26:54] was going to turn it into I was saying the acronym and then I'll make it rainbow to make it culturally [00:26:58] Yeah. And I know that it's only just after that, but [00:27:03] anyway, probably come a rank guy with a car that it's exclusive to him. It's inclusive, it's not to exclude your [00:27:13] kingdom. [00:27:16] And just to recognize that, like, even if there are intersex people present, that methane might not be one of the one [00:27:26] things the [00:27:28] same thing as what Bella's been saying was like, so [00:27:31] can we turn that into a statement? So being really specific, [00:27:36] like just focuses on a day to tokenize? [00:27:40] Something else we're discussing a group was, how do we safely be allies, we're not speaking for something that we don't know enough about. [00:27:50] I think we do it by not standing, we are being the [00:27:57] like the same for any issue. [00:28:01] I am not an intersex person, but this is an important issue. And I'm making this statement. [00:28:10] Theoretical, [00:28:11] yeah, it's a folk stuff that when I think [00:28:14] regarding these, I mean allies of intersex is be part of the rainbow or not. And I saw and I want to make something clear, it's that with all these issues of genders and sexual orientation, as in, sorry, gender expression, gender identity, and now, the new part of this being discussed, that is six characteristics like ours, we are just, even though we are a very little part of the community, we represent something that can bring out an understanding to the to the entire back to the world, that there is not only two colors that being done on this dude, like days are done and he in like they are by, by being visible, they can really understand how diverse is is actually nature, and how colorful his existence. So we might not be so many, but we can be be civilized seeing the beauty of nature, and how everyone can be accepted. So we can actually make the ZVKI more like, I don't know, if you get my point. [00:29:30] Yes, I [00:29:32] was talking about that way, actually a gift the LGBT community brings to the world as we can all be stunning and fabulous. And stop putting us in boxes like make the space to bring it in every month, I'd like to say [00:29:48] I had a problem with floating cuz I didn't go visible. Because [00:29:56] I don't know, [00:29:56] I don't verify trends as much. I haven't been like have experienced female, female. And my experience has just always been female. And so a lot of people talk about, you know, trans obviously transitioned over the transitioning my moment, you know, I've always identified that single right from the day I was born. Now. And the fact that was a because if you're ambiguous genitalia you've had to face to face because it's obviously changed from a female or your gender queer Korea. And then you know, you could tell outwardly that, that you either male or female, but most people look at me, and I just all I see is a female. And in a very November 12, people that are my XY women that are quite shocked and quite surprised, because I don't up here, like, you know, trends, lack of transition or transsexual. So, today, I didn't feel like I have had a little bit lonely back, can you even when you talked about being trans and intersex, I felt a little bit lonely. And it sort of took me back to all those years when I was struggling with a sign that, you know, I had a very difficult adolescence, because I never really had a pivotal sisters female, a gender a sexual person, right? The age of 18. And, yeah, I just wanted to say that there's a lot of right like you say, Rainbow within a rainbow of intersex people. So it's really important point [00:31:35] for the community in Matthew, again, bring the iron, that actually means bringing people in [00:31:44] this discourse of smallness as well, really small part of the community. I think that's a bit of a problem, because actually, it's not necessarily that it's a small part of the community. It's that is an invisible part of the community. Point 7% of the population is I spent [00:32:00] my experience I thought I'd not meet anyone like myself that's been sustained. Even my friend Lou norplant had been initially female, but I have not met anyone that's been sustained, identifies and proceeds as female, and has strong female [00:32:22] gender expression expression. Yeah. [00:32:29] For these people out there. [00:32:32] Right, so is there anything else coming around the [00:32:34] corner next? Great, thank you. Thank you. [00:32:40] Around the corner, you bye. [00:32:44] Bye, Margaret. Denise. [00:32:56] Yes, I just read them, [00:33:00] though, will be counted as references, one loving global change, informed consent, human rights, restrictive surgery, that sort of thing to ask the intersex what legislation is appropriate. [00:33:15] So that's been a theme of the conferences. And I said, looking towards the multimodal [00:33:24] was mentioned, I think it was either that or building on [00:33:32] top, we got medical fraternity, and PCs, it's a health care professionals because it needs to be everything that nurses doctors, therapists, [00:33:41] occupational [00:33:45] admin stuff. Absolutely. Yeah. [00:33:49] And no tacking on to transgender voice. Come on voice. [00:33:57] I guess what were many in particular about this. Often things get merged and, and can cause conflict, and particularly for what you were saying before about not having your own voice and ensuring I guess it diversity within and six. [00:34:15] Put that alongside six being visible. [00:34:18] Yeah, yeah. [00:34:21] Just think, [00:34:23] oh, that's that's actually that's one of our other points as well. [00:34:27] That's not to say of songs. It's the same translated that it's not also appropriate voice but I guess often for documents and things will be one, like one word. [00:34:39] document that's largely focused on transgender. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and I think it's important to have a secret, similar to like, when they talk [00:34:47] about lesbian, gay, bisexual, we're actually going to talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. [00:34:53] So can I say the defining differences between trans and intersex experiences, [00:35:00] that we know that that's associated with narratives as well as, you know, stuff you're talking about, ideally, again, around gender expression, yeah, the social as well as medical prescriptions. [00:35:12] Because I, I find out that many, almost every wanting to be I community, don't really understand how intersex is overlaying without, with their other aspects of, of the, you know, the community or out of the community. In that's why we are not understood in in, you know, a lot of things for them become like, like, like Lauren, and to try to understand who you are. Like, yesterday, somebody was telling me to choose one to be [00:35:49] transphobia. [00:35:51] Don't choose one. And then I was a bit upset with that. [00:35:59] I really, I [00:36:01] mean, I have my self determination to understand. [00:36:07] Yes, I think there's something that Tom and I can fix with every single person in the room, let's no one has the right to [00:36:16] self determination is very important. [00:36:21] Yeah, I mean, what defines my identity in a visible way is my interest actually, because becoming a refugee and all this stuff in the dramatic changes I had in my face in my body, my hands and everything. It was because of my intersex condition. But the actual thing, the actual transition is what could create all my experience as a person and all my experiences the person is around the transition in is, I feel so alone, so lonely, that I don't fit, I feel like I'm in a very uncomfortable place have not been at not fully belonging to one side, or the fully belonging to the other, just by being in between, in that's what I just want to point out here. [00:37:06] And also, I felt very lonely and isolated, because she came out a few months ago, a few months ago. And that's a slight bit of model Tommy, that you know that so Rhea, and because I had one, you know, a couple of traumatic experiences from silence, but I've had years of Christina and feeling quite alone, and I've never had counseling. And the other I should have talked about with infertility and the human rights issue for intersex to adopt. That is a really to my heart because I've always wanted to family. [00:37:48] Because we are running out of time, the great came out with a great list. Is there anything more? [00:37:55] For you, nine points, basic level inclusion of our and also subgroup recognition device that's covered on educating people on inclusion into departmental silos, medicine and education. point six was existence notification, non binary gender. So basically notifying the fates exist 70s education and medicine, fellows ization. So I've said that again, education of medicine No, college ization, and eight is Rachel and six for support and networking house is done. [00:38:40] We didn't really have an answer for that. I'm going to give sort of for people out there and hold on [00:38:47] to be able to contact have read informational, find [00:38:51] it helpful and not left feeling like the only one. Yeah. [00:38:56] And this is pretty much similar to what one was done was visibility, creating a networking group that's pretty much similar to you. [00:39:06] Thank you. And that's it. We've got a few minutes [00:39:11] and several days. Someone said, well just press release that idea. Yeah. So I'll be nice to know that we're rainbow within [00:39:22] that some people feel invisible, because this is gender and heterosexual and they don't [00:39:27] fit into Yeah, what [00:39:29] it's trying [00:39:33] to transform. Yeah. [00:39:36] And then [00:39:38] that, but also that some people are transgender sex, and I think also that some intersex people queer and some intersex people by and like, so it's like, [00:39:47] we're renderer within the rainbow but also across the rainbow. [00:39:54] Rainbow This [00:40:05] is a pot of gold at [00:40:10] the villa. [00:40:13] And I think this comes into the [00:40:16] nobody can tell us who we are, is that we don't need to justify ourselves. [00:40:22] That can be a separate state. [00:40:24] I don't mean to explain to [00:40:26] justify we're explaining we don't know. [00:40:31] Um, [00:40:33] yeah, we mentioned briefly but so about fertility and reproductive issues, [00:40:39] is the most important [00:40:40] health issue [00:40:41] young for at least [00:40:45] human right, we need equal access to that stuff. And access to adoption. counseling. [00:40:53] So human rights issue [00:40:57] sees gender. [00:41:01] Since gender non intersex people in this country have fully right to have fertility treatments, but we intersex people have not. That's the discrimination happening there. [00:41:17] Should I wait for a second? [00:41:20] And then how to address [00:41:22] medical violence, that I'm the one that it's been recognized that it's like normal ization. Surgery is torture. [00:41:32] And that we need to kind of [00:41:35] push in New Zealand for that to be my just sort of change around [00:41:42] and stop it. [00:41:46] Separate from that the fact that it's not just stuff that happens at birth and in childhood than acknowledging that for some intersex people, they don't find out until adulthood. And the health services also need to be better trading sex adults who and including like, people who are insects throughout their lives, and but also people who find out about insects. Yeah, I like to go to that been consumed. Because I was almost it wasn't discussed with me. [00:42:22] I think informed consent, I'd like to have a say in mind body. [00:42:26] My body [00:42:28] was taken out of my hand. [00:42:30] And inside it's time with [00:42:34] my body, my choice. [00:42:37] My right to decide, here. I [00:42:43] go, yeah, I'm making quick self determination, which is a social construct, and body autonomy, which is the informed consent. [00:42:51] So it was either anymore, it's renewed. So with five minutes to go what what I'm going to suggest is that the visible under six people take this to the plenary this afternoon. But what was the greatest permission? [00:43:10] It's been alluded to several times during the conference that we're way that under six trust that the moment is in a conversation with the Human Rights Commission. And this is a follow up from the transgender inquiry. Would it be the consensus of this group and particularly my and the six allies that we table this total document to the [00:43:33] also to the under six roundtable agree with that? Yeah. [00:43:47] We're not slick on there as well because it's seen as a disorder or condition that's quite [00:43:53] sick. [00:43:54] Smiley face. [00:43:57] There's one other thing as well. [00:43:59] It's a the surgery because the focus is around normalization surgery but hypospadias is sometimes six conditions that are specifically stated because people or or medical professionals will not recognize that as intersex hyperspace, [00:44:16] hyperspace intersects, [00:44:19] a lot of medical people want, [00:44:20] we just need to talk to two people who had hypospadias and there was a yes. [00:44:27] Right. So I just want to five minutes that are left, [00:44:31] Mark, this historic event, as far as I know, this is New Zealand's first and dcx workshop. It's not the face, then part of the world. My colleagues in Australia are ahead of us have had these kinds of workshops in Australia, but this is how faced when New Zealand? Well, we are here so much. [00:45:02] And I have to say that there's a lot more to say. And one of the things I've been saying during this conference and this week, when when Robert and I sat down because we were so disappointed and devastated that Auckland wasn't going to go ahead. And Tommy and I'd been in a conference in Australia, we knew that the need to have a conference here. There's the team that's running, this conference is shattered at the moment. And the idea of doing another conference just fills everyone with horror. But it's interesting, because people are already saying, we need to do this. So there's an idea that we have to be a small legacy, I hope from this conference, but a bit a bi annual conference, and we'll move it around New Zealand so and then I thought it was in that we need subset conferences. So obviously, and six community needs to be able to meet, the trend together community needs is our communities that that needs. I think just supporting somehow the idea of getting together how important it is. [00:46:10] And also giving some context or imagining that this is the first of this conversation that has ever occurred here. So in context, and we've done this much work, and then [00:46:23] so [00:46:24] also can consider that, you know, there's lots more work to do. So you know, if if any sense of frustration from your feelings of loneliness or isolation and remember that hope that with the knowledge that we respect you for being here, especially those of us in six community who are at today, behind it will speak to and are grateful for your visibility today, thank you for being here, including money, of course, but I just want to say I know how hard that can be. And, and, you know, [00:47:02] it wouldn't this wouldn't happen without you will pay very much from the trust of ideas. [00:47:08] So just before we go, sorry, [00:47:10] I just like to thank you, Tommy and money was quite happy to [00:47:17] sell and if it hadn't been for you, Lifeline and a great resource for us to [00:47:27] gain help from Yeah, thank you. [00:47:31] And I also want to thank you in in [00:47:35] history remind me that you are the first person that [00:47:38] I came up with, [00:47:40] you remember that? Because I was not operating openly intersex because I feel difficult to explain how could I people and I couldn't very well anymore in any pill because I have issues with my health serious issues with my health. And it's because of my intersex condition and it now, when I meet with him, when I meet someone, we close [00:48:04] by me and say we will do more they'll they know that but what I want to do just in closing, as all of you Everyone here has been involved in historical remarkable. So I just want people to go around with their eyes and just go around the whole whole group. Do it yourself just making eye contact into this remarkable piece of history. And Margaret day Margaret Sparrow, you're part of this huge part of what is being created today. And I thank you so much. We have a doctor here sitting with this supporting and effing us huge. Denise we didn't give you any chance to talk to them. So sorry. No worries. Yeah. [00:48:49] No, I think Ronnie deserves a show.

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