Emmy - Beyond Rainbows
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[00:00:00] This podcast is brought to you by pride nj.com and made possible through a generous grant from our attire. [00:00:08] So I'm title girl trans woman, I'm from Oakland. I'm cool. Nothing makes it awkward. [00:00:19] But I've lived in Tamaki for my whole life. And so I'm right deployment I moment and manga, which is an open so this is [00:00:32] not my idol here, but I'm like, I'm [00:00:35] cool. And how did you like [00:00:38] those great, um, like, it was really, um, kind of refreshing to be, like, in a quiet space with, like, a lot of other well, only other like people of color. I'm not something that we have I really don't even like an organizing as an activist. And there's always like, a lot of like, paga or science fine. Um, but it's, yeah, it's really enjoyable to be with other people who are a bit of white supremacy in the same way, somewhat similar to the way that I am. [00:01:12] Yeah, how do you say the issues that are affecting especially young people of color, especially maybe an indigenous people of color, and young trans people of color, and trans women in particular? And you know that, what do you think of some of the main issues that's affecting you and people like yourself? [00:01:30] Um, yeah, I think I'm, like speaking like, specifically towards like my experiences as, like a trans woman and a trans woman. I think the moment mass incarceration by the US armed police force and corrections, are probably two to one of the two major forces behind mass incarceration. And I think that is kind of the biggest contemporary struggle that we face it. So I think that's what we need to talk about. Yeah. Which is good, because we did it extensively. [00:02:07] What was interesting things that came up for you. And [00:02:13] there was kind of a [00:02:16] constellation of the stickers, um, which is, again, like, it's refreshing to talk about this with other brown people. Because you don't need anyone being like, you know, the police have always been really nice to me. So I don't really see what the problem is, everyone has had bad experiences with the police here. So, you know, no one's trying to say like, you know, my dad is a cop, even if they do have, you know, relatives around the place, they still understand that the, you know, the institutional role of those organizations is services State College. [00:02:49] So what's been your experiences with their, [00:02:55] like, you know, maybe what's been your more recent experiences. [00:03:00] So recently, I was quite badly injured during a protest. With a well, I won't go into the whole detail about it, because it's kind of boring. But my arm was broken. And so I had a police officer sitting on my back and handcuffing me, which is really unbearable when you have a broken humor. And then they they don't like let you go relate, because they don't take this statement with us. And before they will lay medics properly say to you, or give you any kind of pain relief and stuff. I think that's a really common experience. Some people call it especially if you're moldy or Pacific, and I'll try is that, you know, your, your individuality isn't really respected by, you know, these operatives, it's kind of their needs come first. And if they want to, very soon, they will win. If they don't want to, then they'll let you go. But you know, you don't really matter in that situation, you don't get much of a choice. [00:04:03] What do you think? Like, were you surprised about the kind of community reaction to that happening? Because it was quite a public thing? I lots of people. [00:04:15] Yeah. You know, this is a community and stuff. So I welcome everyone's [00:04:21] thoughts [00:04:23] about what happened. Um, [00:04:26] it's been interesting. [00:04:29] The different groups who have given their perspectives and stuff, people who've been really supportive, which is great. And the people who've seen right for it? [00:04:41] Well, it's great. [00:04:41] It's incredible. Yeah, but I mean, that happens, whenever you talk about your relationship to Calla, there's always going to be people who want you not to do that, because the current situation works fine for them. And that's not really in their interest for you to kind of draw attention to the violence inherent, you know, in that system, because, yeah, it's going fine for them. Um, so that was kind of eye opening, because I know that I was necessarily expecting to be, you know, badly injured, and have to deal with the repercussions of that. But I also wasn't expecting, you know, quite so strongly negative response from the community, especially given that I was in hospital for quite a while. And, yeah, that was surprising, but not entirely surprising. Like, I think there's a long history of Modi, in this country, when we talk about wrong, it's a tongue. Just like a living a theater talking about Justin, the way that we're treated, and, you know, in this country, you know, the response is often real negative. [00:05:52] Did you feel like people were sort of saying that it was your fault that they happen to, [00:05:58] you know, seemed like there was a, [00:06:01] you know, to, to kind of schools of thought, and one was that you should be able to express yourself and be safe. And the other one was that you shouldn't do something that's going to make conflict. How do you feel like you can navigate that stuff? Because it's quite a tricky position to be in? Yeah. [00:06:20] Yeah. I mean, at the moment, I'm just trying to get my arm back. [00:06:27] So I'm really just kind of trying to navigate things medically, at the moment before I try to deal with kind of anything else going on? Um, so yeah, I'm just avoiding it with him on sir. Yeah. I'm just trying to not deal with it. [00:06:42] Yeah. And you're still in like a brace and stuff at the moment? [00:06:46] Yeah, I've got a brace on this thing. Because it [00:06:49] must have been a couple of months ago. Now. I'm [00:06:51] not it was about a little over a month. [00:06:54] Yeah, yeah. [00:06:57] I still got another month and the race turn. [00:07:01] And so um, do you have any? Like, what's kind of coming out of us with the people who are supporting you? Do you feel like, you know, what kind of goods talks are coming out of it? Or like, do you feel like people that it's kind of brought issues up for people were kind of raising awareness? Oh, [00:07:23] yeah, I hope so. Because that's what we, we may, you know, at the party is, that's what we wanted to do, I don't really go there. And the interest of getting my ass kicked in front of it, a lot of that just kind of happened, or you want to do was have people like talk about incarceration in the prison industrial complex, and I'll see it all. And I hope that people are having these discussions now and talking about, you know, the police, and especially in relation to clan us, and how we relate to, you know, these agencies. And I hope that's happening. [00:07:54] Okay, because it seems like quite a lot of quite a lot of the time when we hear people's thoughts about that stuff. That's often the people who aren't maybe and, you know, like, for example, me as an older person, I'm not as likely to experience that anymore, as I would have been when I was your age. So we often don't hear a lot from young people about the stuff. Was there? Um, you know, is that doesn't fit with? [00:08:18] Yeah, yeah, I feel like I'm younger people. I mean, this isn't a kind of pointing statement about who cares and who doesn't care. But I feel like young people often are more willing to talk about these things. I'm not that conversations will come on to a, you know, unproductive, or in anything, and there's like a wealth of knowledge that's, you know, coming down to us from our elders. And that's really important to, you know, have those Kool Aid or [00:08:47] have you found people kind of being like, oh, wow, we didn't realize this was a big issue for young people. And obviously, as a big issue, you don't put yourself on the line like that, if you don't have really big feelings on important stuff to say, Have you had people kind of being like, oh, wow, this is obviously a big thing. [00:09:05] Yeah, yeah, some people have been, I think that's really [00:09:09] relieving for me, because that's what we want people to do is to think about the role of state power and how it relates to us as creators, and, you know, how we can reinforce, you know, structures of violence in a way that I think often doesn't get talked about, it doesn't get thought about. And I think that's a shame. So I'm glad that people are willing to, were more willing to, you know, talk about the things even if they think that I'm an idiot, or whatever. I disagree, but I'm thinking about, you know, state violence and the racist police force. The deployment of races violence, and the service and state power, even if they think I'm wrong, at least sits and is on the right off of them. And I put that in overtime, they can develop, look at the statistics, and now in the, you know, the history of violence in this country, and hopefully, you know, examine their perspectives, and, you know, come to a understanding of, of violence and race in this country, which is Russia, and the history of race and violence in this country. [00:10:40] I heard somebody say over the weekend that it was ironic that what you had been protesting against was, you know, like, the abuse of power by the state. And, you know, by the colonial, you know, the state like a month and they What did they say, sort of like that, that's what you were trying to draw teams into, and then that's what happened on the day. [00:11:01] Yeah, I mean, it wasn't the [00:11:05] there was a private security company, actually. [00:11:09] One law company, but in any case, it wasn't [00:11:13] state employees who actually broke down. [00:11:19] But, um, [00:11:22] yeah, it's it's maybe a little hard to see the irony. Just cuz you know, I've got a broken arm. Yeah, it's hard to find the humor in it. [00:11:32] Well, anything that's nice like a flippin thing to say, cuz I guess it is. I think [00:11:36] maybe it was the least about the humor and more about that one. Yeah, [00:11:39] totally proving [00:11:41] something like this. [00:11:42] Yeah, no, no, definitely. [00:11:48] Yeah, we're also joined by a couple of other people here who have been at the Hawaii [00:11:55] demanding information from you and handcuffing you while you had a broken arm? [00:12:02] Yeah, I'm screaming in pain and yeah, my memory of memories kind of patchy because I kind of faded in and out of that while I was on the road. Um, yeah, I got Hancocks, but then I got on handcuffed again, a little later on. But yeah, I was I was being taken care of my statement taken. I wasn't arrested, but I was detained. I think that was a little while before I could be saved by a American take into an ambulance and stuff. So yeah, I definitely think that these are the state definitely played on the state. But police definitely played a role in what happened. And I don't think they're all necessarily one which minimize the violence of the day. But they went out the primary [00:12:49] purveyors, perpetrators. [00:12:53] That day. [00:12:55] Do you think? What What do you think? [00:13:00] as somebody who's really passionate about this stuff, what kind of things do you think the community could be doing? to, I guess, like, just help each other to understand what the issues are? In that not everyone is a safe and the everyday life is a safe? It's everyone else? [00:13:18] Yeah, it's, um, something that needs to be talked about is the power dynamics that exist within the queer community, because it's, it doesn't get for about a lot of trans women, like specifically, I know, we brought it up again, already, at the beginning of the interview about transforming extremely unsafe, like, we're usually subjected to violence, or attempted suicide, right? It's like 40 to 50%. That's like people like living trans women who are trying to kill ourselves, obviously, this epidemic, and if you're dead already, you can't contribute to this physics of attempted suicide. So it will be much higher than that. And its violence, because when you when something reaches those proportions within a population, you can't explain it is just an individual decision or an individual circumstance, because it's a, it's a whole population, being subjected to conditions, which, in my opinion, are incompatible with our survival. And that's why we die. And it needs to be talked about in all kinds of spaces in moldy spaces and create spaces and, and spaces for people of color. And that's kind of what glitch, who he has been this weekend. And so it's been really, really good to be able to talk about the stuff with the community here. And I hope that the community at broad in this country, we can take these discussions away from this space, and into those wider spaces and talk about the violence, which, as we as a teller were uniquely subjected to that Morales, a white friends and family and the other pocket members of that community maybe won't have direct experience of because it's something that they probably aren't familiar with. And they're not they don't experience. I'm not, of course, to say that there is not violence directed towards all of us, that's part of being queer is living with the constant threat of violence. But [00:15:31] it's quite, [00:15:33] quite visible through eat a lot of trans women of color. [00:15:38] Yeah, yeah, definitely. It's, um, the deployment of violence against quiz is unevenly distributed. And I think the decision making power in the community is also unevenly distributed. And I think those dynamics needs to be questioned, and broken down exams and more detail if we're going to work towards, you know, working against here in almost every city and against a society which we can't live within. [00:16:13] Do you find that, um, you know, it's uncomfortable for people to hear about if they haven't experienced it themselves? And then they, you know, like that, that can be people can just be uncomfortable with hearing about this stuff, and then those conversations can get sort of shut down? [00:16:27] Absolutely, yeah, it's really, it's always uncomfortable to hear about ways in which you can be complicit in the destruction of other people. I mean, like, as indigenous people, and I'll try, we still need to look at global systems of poverty and the ways in which we are made to be complicit and those, like me complicit in all kinds of processes as part of global capitalism, which we don't have a, you know, it's not a choice on our part to into work within those systems of the global exploitation, but we still, you know, we still are and even though there's no kind of individual moral culpability for that, we still, you know, is we still Yeah, the systems exist, and most systems of violent and we, in many ways, despite a position of subordination, and I'll tell always still participate in the systems which are violent, globally. And, you know, we need to that is uncomfortable for me to think about, it's always hard to acknowledge the ways in which your daily life and the way that you have lived and conduct yourself can be hurting other people. But it's vital to acknowledge the violence inherent in the system, and challenge it and so I hope that like in the community, we can do that and really, you know, look at the the deployment of violence in this country and critically evaluate the ways in which we may be perpetuating that violence and stop [00:18:12] that's a very complex thing. Like there's a lot of different issues that come into [00:18:16] Yeah, totally. [00:18:20] I mean, just in an lt at all being there's a like a the violence which we're producing the you know, incarceration and the the New Zealand police force the Papa Papa violence that goes back, you know, 100 plus years. You know, people talk about party haka, the destruction of party, haka is an atrocity of the colonial era. But, you know, that was the New Zealand government's Constabulary that was the police force, at party haka with 1600 armed men in a cannon, you know, they were, they were police marching, on mass on horseback, haka, as well. There's a specific history of violence in this country, and there's a specific role which the police and the prison have historically played, and like the deployment of colonialism, and I don't think that that role has necessarily changed very much. [00:19:21] And 175 years since the signing of tidied, say, I think that [00:19:27] I mean, the treaty, the treasure, you know, found the [00:19:33] entity took it, never stated sovereignty. So, you know, if, if we never ceded sovereignty, then why are we not sovereign? It's because the deployment of violence was used to make any kind of resistance impossible. And part of that was the use of the prisons at Patty haka. And this is an intense I took it out because that's where my that's where we come from. So you this isn't necessarily my direct, super not involved here. But in party haka, [00:20:08] and today lucky region, that people, you know, we're resistors [00:20:14] non violent, [00:20:15] yes, non violent resistance. They were building, like plowing and moving stones and putting up fences and they were arrested for it and held without charge. And the government had to pass a specific act of legislation to retro actively legalize those a race, because there was no legal foundation for the, you know, the incarceration on this people was, they had to change the law, after the facts for it to stand. And then they were all ships away into the South Island, and most of the will not most of them, but very many people then died and, you know, shape it will take heads. That's the history of the prison. And potato is a specific tool used to destroy Modi resistance to military occupation. [00:21:04] Yeah, and it's a bit of a would you say, like, when we look back at the past, we can see the common, you know, we can say we have things have changed. And we can also say we're, some things haven't changed enough. And say a little bit of parallels and yeah, things that are happening now. [00:21:23] And that's why it's important, I think, in queer spaces to look at what hasn't changed. [00:21:31] And ways in which we complicit and keeping things that way. [00:21:35] Like, I love pride, and I love being queer, because I'm [00:21:43] like, I'm really, really gay. [00:21:47] I like I love this shit. [00:21:50] But that doesn't mean that the queer community at large cannot be complicit in white supremacist violence. And I think when the is on police force is making 170,000 apprehensions in a year and 69,000 of those people, Modi just moaning that is a problem. Because we're 15% of the population we shouldn't be, you know, like, more than more than a third of total apprehensions. That's ridiculous. The prison population, I'll tell you, I'm seeing all those prisoners. I'm already 58% of women prisoners, Modi, like just Modi. This is a system which produces these levels and incarceration for Modi. That can't be a coincidence is no way that the history of invasion and colonization and genocide in this country has not played a role in producing such obscene figures. incarceration, [00:22:49] you don't think modern people just love going to jail? [00:22:53] To the problem, I think what happened is that because we could we you know, we had meetings in the funny and the way I was just saying spec house and then all the cow, so we just broke up to prison. [00:23:03] Like, what's going on in you know, they just, you know, where we go in and they just lock us up? I'm sure that's probably what's just happening. I know, [00:23:11] huge disparities. It's the same every Steeler nation. I like the indigenous people have these huge disparities and health we die. And, you know, we have more preventable health problems. More longer presence in says more incarceration. Yeah, that's quite a, that's quite a really, really big issue is that we need to be remembering what's happening and looking at. [00:23:32] Yeah. And I think it's important to think about [00:23:37] Modi malady suffering, in terms of the global system of colonialism, and Africa, and Africa hugely, which does not get talked about nearly enough. In the Americas, throughout Europe, everywhere. It's a global system, which produces suffering in capital. And its operating here. And I think that even though in a lot of ways, the, with a lot of free air to live our lives and not be murdered, which is nice. Um, there are other ways in which people are still hugely unsafe, and we're not talking about it or addressing it, with us allowing it to happen. [00:24:25] What would what would you say are some of the ways that people in the community can support each other and, you know, work together to make more fear outcomes for indigenous and other Trans and Queer people of color? Huh? [00:24:44] Yeah, it's, um, [00:24:47] I think it's important. When you're organizing as, as paga, when you're organizing for the queer community to remember in your organization's and your obligations on instituted, say, enter, involve Modi, to involve people of color. So we are multi involve us in these spaces, because we want to be there and make sure that we can meaningfully participate in the community because we're not we have little trolls sitting [00:25:21] outside of [00:25:22] these things going on, and not having a relatively, we're here, and we're queer. But oftentimes, we don't get invited to stuff. Or we show up. And it's not the kind of space that we can exist within without making a compromise. And we shouldn't have to choose between being able to work towards emancipation for queers, or being respected as people of color or as tenants of Noah. But often, that's what we have to do. And so if you're, if you're paga, or even if you're sorry, and you're organizing, then, absolutely, you need to critically evaluate, and it's painful, but you need to do it, you need to critically evaluate how you're organizing, and how you incorporating Modi and how your organization's and moving us towards seeing what is his hunger? And if you're not, then you need to start moving towards that, because that's the only way that we can conduct ourselves morally, I think. [00:26:30] Yeah, so like taking a broad view of what's going on and what their issues might be. That might not just be that awkward queer shows the same queer shoes and feet and time to finish. And really specific way you can, you can find out about by involving tongue in a meaningful ways. [00:26:49] Yeah, mostly. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And even if, you know, just listen to us, let me tell you about things that are going on and how how we feel in your spaces, because it's important. If there are like a spot 3% of this country is not paga. If your spaces do not have about 30%, brown people, then you have a problem. And it's from the whole ministry thing. Because we're here, we're around, it's, you know, this is a lot of us. But if we aren't coming to stuff, it's not that we're not interested, or that we're not there that those spaces are not accommodating us. And they really need to [00:27:39] I think any all like what do you think are the other? You know, what do you think of the other kind of main things that are affecting young people at the moment? And like, what other stuff do you think that? [00:27:54] What other kinds of conversations and you know, excellence Would you like to see happening, and I think we need people let's talk about [00:28:02] poverty, in terms of economic disposition, because I'm quiz and especially as the color but all of us [00:28:10] usually kind of subordinated [00:28:14] in those ways, and a lot of us kind of very difficult to survive and find, you know, housing and reliable first and this access to education. Um, you know, the university is, because I'm a student, that's an area, which I'm hugely involved in, organizing politically, well, not usually involved, I help I show up for the meetings, I know, I'm involved, but um, you know, that's a huge problem, because I'm sorry, I'm holding up, I'm holding out some people. So I will, I'm going to move towards wrapping up because they need to get going. But I'm like even this is I'll give one example. And then I'll go to the university every year. My University and I think most University, the country, increase the phase that you need to pay my the legally mandated absolute maximum amount 4%, every single year. So that's 4% rise, and on previous years, which incorporates the previous hopes it rises. So it's a compounding increase in the amount of money they need to pay to, you know, go to university and on the face of things, that's an eagle Attarian kind of increase, you know, everyone has to pay more, it's not specifically targeting Modi has been focusing more on paga happened same out, but in this country, Maria uniquely subjected and totally people of color uniquely subjected to poverty. And so when something becomes more expensive for all of us, we're the ones with the least resources to be able to justify spending our money on that when we need to feed our families, you know, and so a lot of stuff, which isn't specifically targeted at attacking people of color in this country will still affect us to a huge extent more than it will affect paga I think that's something which needs to be acknowledged and works towards addressing. [00:30:06] Yeah, we need to recognize what the disparities are that are happening for indigenous people, and especially indigenous queer and trans people and then work to make those more equitable outcomes. [00:30:17] Yeah, absolutely.
This page features computer generated text of the source audio - it is not a transcript. The Artificial Intelligence Text is provided to help users when searching for keywords or phrases. The text has not been manually checked for accuracy against the original audio and will contain many errors.