Andie - Beyond Rainbows

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[00:00:00] This podcast is brought to you by pride NC calm and made possible through a generous grant from a retiree. [00:00:07] So my name is ND I'm 16 identifies you nuclear. I suppose being a minority I am being beaten across close to being a minority and away within the quake community, like not for the funding with the gender binary. Either minority also because I am Christian, and not many queer people. Today, really, I suppose, identify with traditional spirituality, such as like Western spirituality like Christianity, and also identifies libertarian, so I, as well as being gender queer and oppression, I advocate for our personal economic and social liberty. And I suppose I fit outside the usual like the stereotypical political views of a queer person. [00:00:53] So you mentioned gender queer, what does that mean to you? [00:00:58] So gender queer basically means Well, I suppose a really specific type light specific term or description on it, but it's really just identifying as a guy or a girl. So when I basically said the quick question the machine that I thought I thought of being when i when i was group as a guy, or a girl I thought we'd already actually fit in and I didn't felt felt as if I fit fit that lucky is as if I fitted in to Megan to create more specifically kind of means identifying between guy and girl so if you mentioned Gina is like a spectrum like a long line and may miss them to wanting that femininity, on the other hand, I feel like kind of a 5050 mix of the two, like both I like I might think more masculine and I might kind of XW message in some ways, but they both feel equally significant. [00:01:44] So currently, I kind of like a balance to me. And what about libertarianism what does that mean to you? [00:01:50] Um, so I suppose I suppose libertarian meaning something to do in a ways but hard because libertarianism is a bit more amoral in a way because it allows people role models when it within freedom, and you [00:02:02] quickly define libertarianism for me. So libertarianism, [00:02:04] I suppose very broad libertarianism by sublease and smaller government and individual freedom. So basically, you're free to do what you want with your life, being within social life. So being able to marry who you want, being able to sleep with who you won't be able to practice what he religion, you want to beliefs. And on the economic side, it's be able to keep your own money, you know, to start up a business if you want to without government interference, and basically believing in free markets, if it's right libertarianism, which I can identify with, [00:02:32] yeah. So how have people within the broader quick community reacted to your minority status? [00:02:45] And with regards to any of these three ideas, yeah, [00:02:48] so I suppose within the queer community, being gender queer, has gained a bit has gained a bit more awareness. And a lot of people know, know better how to react to it, and it can accept it. And many people have been really, really good with accepting my pronouns, but should they? And what does that mean? So basically, pronouns I suppose titles that you title that you could use phrase for yourself that someone's referring to, in place of your name. So say, someone was saying, oh, Andy went to the park the other day. Instead of saying, he went to the park, or she went to the park, one would say, for me, they went to the park. So your pronouns basically like a title and in place the name and being in the queer community, people reacted pretty well, to us, to my gender identity, religiously, sometimes been a bit of a challenge, because within Christianity, there are lots of mixed perspectives on sexuality and gender. So some people have asked me lots of questions about sexuality. Some people have kind of criticized me for it, and thought they're my views or [00:03:54] they thought they're about to traditional. [00:03:57] Are you thinking? I'm talking about people within the queer community? The reactions to your religion? [00:04:03] Yeah, the way around to yes to my religion, [00:04:06] or saying that my views are, but I don't know. [00:04:11] Just a bit maybe puritanical. I supposed to describe in terms of two plus my political views, a lot of a lot of great people are really, really open to politic, which is really great. A lot of people have questioned me, and it's really, really good. And a lot of people have taken it. I've posted the challenge to reconsider what freedom means to them and what governments them. So a lot of people kind of reacted with here yesterday, but almost got bad criticism, because generally, way people have been on the left side of politics, because socialist or worker based parties or liberal parties have been the first to adopt queer rights copyright stances. But so I suppose it's been a mix of curiosity, and also a bit of skepticism. [00:04:55] How have these other communities reacted to you're being queer, so how religious your religious communities accepted, you will create a [00:05:09] religious communities, it's, it's kind of been a bit difficult, I suppose. When you often encounter people who are saying religious authority, like I'm pastas, or ministers, or bishops or whatever, a lot of them kind of don't know what to say. Because things like being like BG iniquity will specifically be very, very new concepts to people. And to Western culture, they've been very, very new, and they've been developing Well, they do not use the US concepts known to people. [00:05:39] A lot of people just don't know what to say, kind of say, okay, but they don't really know how to react to it. [00:05:45] What are some reactions you've gotten? Um, [00:05:51] I suppose a lot of it's just saying all God loves you, no matter was, [00:05:56] which is really, really good. But I don't really think they look, they haven't really looked past that, and God loves you. And they'd say that often. And they kind of haven't reviewed what they think Gina was like in society. And we the gender is binary in relation to Christian views. And, [00:06:13] and just how how, [00:06:16] like, how gender diversity relates to structures, like marriage, or like sexuality. And I think that's one thing that they have responded to, they've accepted me, which is really, really great. And I think it's a quarter religion to Christian beliefs is acceptance. But they haven't really asked how they could help me better except loving me to get me it's about how to explain suppose. [00:06:39] And what about the communities of people that [00:06:46] they normally more accepting or less of [00:06:48] your queer identity? I say more accepting, but in a different way. Traditionally, I was I was actually socialists, when I got into politics. And all the socialists really looked at me saying, Oh, that's really, really empowering. It's really, really great. And, you know, society to do better to accept you. But libertarianism, I suppose. There's an aspect of really all that's great. I don't go to infringe on your freedom, do what you want for your life. And libertarianism is really, really diverse, because it's a whole group of people who basically they've been marginalized by government or oppressed by government, and feel like they should be able to what they want. So while there have been questions about my identity, which I've been able to explain, and they've been very, very open about, and they really allowed I suppose that really said you can you should go do what you want. And that's really the core of libertarian attitude is leaving people do what they want with your life, certainly, they can achieve the high purpose. Typical cool. How has [00:07:40] How was your school experience me coming out as gender queer? [00:07:47] My skills good, very, very good. I think I wished so when I did, when I did come out. [00:07:54] I there was quite a bit of support in terms of my school community. A lot of people had a lot of questions by matrix find them out, a lot of them were accepting, there are still some people who kind of contacted my pronouns by associated with work on it. In terms of the school as a, I suppose, structure of teachers and boards and everything, they've been very, very good. We're one of the only schools which have actually, which actually seek out to try and develop a transgender policy and indices policy, which I was to incorporate students and like they will, which aims to better help transcend six people at school. So they want so basically, the policy that I've been pushing for along with another trans pseudonyms, is to have better bathroom axis, least binary list binary structures when referring to students in class B to gender and sexuality, education, and sex education. [00:08:48] And also for [00:08:50] beta, like more flexible structures around sports competitions at least nine years a minute that expect they've been very, very good, very, very open. [00:09:00] What age were you when you first started questioning agenda? [00:09:05] Um, I don't know. It's kind of hard to find in a way. This for i was i was just, [00:09:13] I was just out as a male who was gay. But at the same time, I was questioning how Mr. I felt and with him with a male's really a good title for me, because I feel my feminine side is quite significant. To me. It's quite it means quite a bit to me. So I suppose in that respect, I started questioning my gender identity like that, when I was 14. And thinking, Oh, am I actually more feminine, feminine listen to what makes you quite different to all the other, like all the other voice? But when I actually thought way, this isn't actually good title for me, I suppose. 15? Or maybe from this year 16? [00:09:48] And what was that process like? For you? Um, [00:09:54] it's a bit weird. I don't really know anyone who's seen the queer. I knew people who were binary trends, you're really, really good. But a lot of that kind of involves just going online and watching videos. And I don't know, it was quite weird. Just, I managed to just talk with someone online about this. And they were really, really good at supporting me with it. And they kind of talk to me more about, like, what's interesting to me to them, and what it means to be gender queer, and kind of by talking with people and managed to build up a cup of coffee and spicy say, Hey, I think I might be gender queer. And, yeah, [00:10:25] it's like that. What other sources of support? do you have? I don't [00:10:31] know, it's kind of been very much based around, like, just by myself, really a lot of it. And I've got friends who've been really supportive once of coming out, but tends to give me advice, I suppose. That kind of weird is able because I'm hanging out with I'm mainly hanging out with student of people. But in terms of helping me out if I've had crap given to me by the people, they've been really, really good on that script. [00:10:59] How do you think the the fact that you fit into these other minorities has aided or hindered the coming out process? [00:11:12] I don't know. I think [00:11:16] I think being gender queer has kind of made me realize some, like for politics has kind of helped me realize, kind of, kind of, I suppose radicalized me a bit more as kind of realized how, like, [00:11:29] some of the [00:11:30] some of the ways that queer people suffer under a government system. And I suppose being religious. [00:11:38] It's I don't know, with being religious, it's kind of maybe it's kind of made me like kind of helped me deepen my faith, because it's kind of made me question about structures around me, and it's kind of given me some time to reflect on my relationship with God. [00:11:51] So yeah, it's, it's kind of been interesting. [00:11:54] Yeah. Why do you think there is so much tension between religious and queer communities? [00:12:04] It's very, very hard to explain, I suppose. [00:12:08] I think the problem is that there were a lot of there was really much questioning of cultural context in the Bible. So I suppose it's a bit of theology here. When a lot of people say, for example, in the religious community, the man made marriage between a man and a woman, they don't analyze marriage much in the Bible, they kind of they do tell you some quotes, which I can accept about marriage, but they don't really review it. And its cultural context. And I think one thing, which is which I think needs to be a lot of research into into religious communities, is how the Bible fits and stays wheels. And how, for example, this is a pool, which mainly talks about gender and sexuality, if you went to where, [00:12:49] what, what, like, [00:12:52] what the cultural context really means today. So I think what would really, really help help is if, if religious communities did a lot of research, a lot of thinking, praying about what the Bible means today, and how it fits in with cultural context. And we have a like, like it had from the New Testament, the old from the Old Testament, the New Testament, with the law changed with the law changes today, and about the principles of the Bible can be adjusted, whether they mean different things today. So I think it'd be a really, really good point for the religious community, in terms the queer community. I think, although there have been some really, really crappy experiences, such as disbelief and people's sexuality, and who they are, and then being who they really are. There also needs I think, also needs to be a little bit of understanding that religious people, although very, very true to the principles, do it all in the name of love, and that their ideas and faith in the ideas are to help people out. So while he needs to help with the religious side, I think is a better opportunity for people to try and understand people from religious perspectives. [00:13:56] Are there any particular passages of the Bible, anything that resonated with you, as you were trying to come out will come to terms with [00:14:04] your ideas? Um, I suppose it goes to the classic john 316. This one? [00:14:10] What what john 316 [00:14:12] Oh, gosh, my memory go to somebody we were here. [00:14:16] For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. [00:14:22] Oh, my gosh, have I forgot this? Oh, that's terrible. What's [00:14:27] the message, the message of the text, or the message is basically that God loves you no matter what. And that God is always with you. So God has predestined something salvation, and that those who are predestined are always going to be with them. And that God loves individuals. And although it may seem that says will, that you may be judged by God, and that you may be judged by the people. God is always working with you. So yeah, it's pretty sad. I forgot that. But another one, if you actually want to look at genius place is a really interesting, there's some really interesting text. And I kind of fell off my Hello it unfortunately, in Matthew eight, Matthew right is really interesting, because it looks into the place of Unix, Unix, I think, as I say it, we would end the place in society back in the day, and back in the Judeo Christian world. And Jesus, he does say that, you know, it may not fit within the traditional structure of sexuality, and the traditional structure family, but they still Welcome to God. And it's a really interesting thing, because you can adjust I think that's very, very applicable to agenda. [00:15:35] There's been a lot of talk by liberal Christians developers, [00:15:39] that what he says about Unix there can be applicable to transgender people and six people that although they may not fit into the traditional societal structure, they are really welcome and churches and welcome to God. [00:15:51] What about [00:15:54] have people in libertarian communities been accepting of your religion as that fundamental aspect of libertarianism? [00:16:03] I would say there's often a bit of your on people who are always I suppose better, no true Scotsman thing. But there are some people who are really take on the tolerance aspect of libertarianism. A lot of people see a lot of people take on a very, I suppose the oldest one of Marxist analysis that religion is used, used by the government to help prop up the ruling class, and a lot of people whose the religious views is oppressive. So there's been a lot of accidents on one front of my religious views, I suppose. But on the other, there's been a lot of skepticism. And I've been told many times that my religious views are shielding me from [00:16:39] reasoning more and finding out more about myself. [00:16:43] How does it feel when people tell you that, [00:16:45] that feeling I think, [00:16:48] I know what to say, conversely, to get away, that kind of makes me sound arrogant. But it sounds a bit condescending because they don't really, they don't really sympathize with my experiences, and they don't really realize that I'm, I might have thought for a bit, or, I don't know, well, maybe I come with my views, because of different experiences them. [00:17:07] If you had a message that you could give out for [00:17:12] young, queer, maybe religious people, what would you say, [00:17:17] um, I suppose this is going to be from quite a Christian perspective, I suppose. But a lot of it is that God does love you, and that Christ died for your sins. So in many areas, your life, like everyone, you will come across them. But Jesus did die for your salvation. And if you do believe in Him, you won't actually become a stray from them. And that is actually what is written by Paul in Romans, is that no matter what your journey may be, God is always with you. And that, that your gender identity, or your sexual orientation, or your six will not actually prevent you from having a full, abundant life in Christ. So basically, keep hungry. Keep having faith and keep pushing, keep pushing for a great life with go keep praying. And if you're, if you're worried about your religious community, don't be afraid to try different ones move between churches, I'd move between churches a lot. And find out what Christ means different people and find a church which will be applicable to you. [00:18:15] What about [00:18:16] what about and message to people who are in more mainstream religious communities with regards to accepting [00:18:26] younger people? I'm [00:18:28] sorry, could you give me an example of I'm [00:18:30] sorry, um, so maybe outside of queer communities, so people who are not necessarily about religious and ways that they can make their religious spaces more accepting towards young people, [00:18:44] um, I think discuss with people, but also discuss and listen to a lot. [00:18:51] Listen, with listen with an open mind and open ears. And if you when you listen to people experiences, try and try and apply it to your religious beliefs into things that you've heard religiously. [00:19:04] I suppose Don't try to undermine people's experiences. [00:19:09] And don't try to think that you're supposed to know more than other people. Because the more you listen to other people, the more you can learn about yourself, I think. So by CU, listen, with open he isn't an open mind. And when you hear that, try and apply it to yourself and your journeys, and then you can understand them. [00:19:26] Do you think that that's something that might apply to [00:19:30] more than just more than just that scenario? Like, more than just with regards to queer people? With regards to all sorts of minorities? [00:19:39] I think so. Yeah. I think it's that certainly applies to, to other people, like, I'll just give one, just give one example. So for example, to people who might ever, who might be having problems with mental health, like if you if you try and understand the problems, or try and understand that the difficulties with life, then you can really help and more and having better relations job with him, but just by understanding, so this was a message of understanding and tolerance, it's really applicable to all life. And it's really something that you can make the world better, I think, [00:20:09] what other things do you think could make the world a better place with regards to [00:20:17] helping young people come to terms with their identity? [00:20:24] I think it's under Yeah, mainly understanding, I think, I think I think that comes from just in social situations, and with making and with education, for example. Yeah, I think, yeah, I think it's mainly about understanding. And if someone, for example, if someone wants to use these pronouns, you should disrespect. So I think. And rather than say, if you have a belief that I know they pronouns aren't grammatically correct, even though you may believe that the grammatically, that you're not grammatically correct, that those pronouns are grammatically correct, you should still use them and respect to the person. So I think we're spacing and tolerance and putting the other person before you, as always a really, really good, a really, really good principle to put in situations. And really, if more people just did that and use that for themselves. [00:21:08] I think there will be a lot better to be a lot more harmony and tolerance and everything. [00:21:12] What do you do, when people refuse to use your power now [00:21:20] I kind of explain that out, I suppose, like, like what I just explained before. [00:21:26] It's always difficult. [00:21:28] It is it is very hurtful. Because basically what you do then is you kind of ignore, although you may have a problem with it. So in a grammatical friend, you've kind of ignoring the person's identity, and you're not really tried to compromise or anything. And I think compromising for the sake of someone to steal. And if you just go into it, if you just adjust someone's pronouns, which is a very, very, very small step, then you make a life a hell of a lot easier for the other person. And that's one of the things I suppose I tried to communicate. And it's just really little steps. It's not a massive thing. It's a listen sacrifice for a whole lot gave the other person to make GIFs makes life easier. [00:22:05] And what ways do you deal with like, the homophobia you face, or any any oppression for being part of any identity groups, [00:22:18] um, I suppose like a little my friends. [00:22:21] I talked to my friends about it. [00:22:24] I kind of I tried to reason with them. And like, first off, I try to reason with him and kind of try to, I suppose make some counterpoint to that will make them question themselves. Because I think it's always this off, it's good to kind of try to influence the other person, sort of stop this view, so doesn't hit someone else. But after that, I'd call my friends some support, or try to get them to back me up and say, no, that's not cool. And after that, I think for things myself, if it's like private incident, like my personal life, I would just chill out, I think, and things like music are really, really good for that. I think it just making something yourself drinking coffee, and espresso helps. [00:23:04] Have your family been a supporter of philosophies? [00:23:08] Yeah, they've been pretty supportive. [00:23:11] They've been pretty understanding. And I think, although I suppose for the first couple of days, this week, they kind of didn't really understand it. And they kind of made it a point to communicate that they didn't understand it. But I suppose after but they did, they did adjust. And it's not easy when they could start using my pronouns, which was really, really perfect. Because like I said, it's not a massive adjustment to me. But they've been pretty good. Yeah. [00:23:36] What do you think it would it would say, to you, what, what message would it give you, if your parents did start accepting and using your pronouns? [00:23:45] Um, it would kind of it would, it would, it would give me the explicit message that they accept my gender identity, recognize that it's really important to me and see that it's not like, it's not a massive thing to do. And it just makes me it just makes me feel a whole lot better. It would just, it would just kind of makes me who I, it's who I am. Rather than simply like going along with it, right? The MC recognizing that I'm not a guy or a girl, and using my name, if you reach that next step, so you kind of round it all off. And you kind of make the consistent statement, I suppose. [00:24:19] Did your parents bring up religious? Or is that something that's develops later on in your life? They are religious. [00:24:27] But I honestly don't think that was what brought me to religion, because I was brought up in an Anglican household or returning within school. But I was actually the inconceivable that I became agnostic atheist, briefly. I suppose it was mainly when I started questioning my gender identity and sexuality that he started him a Christian. It's quite funny, actually, adults at the same time maybe was previously I don't know. But it was at that time when I suppose I faced a bit of hardship that I actually became a Christian myself [00:24:58] and have having that shared spirituality with your parents been helpful through throughout the coming out process? Um, yeah. [00:25:12] It has been, I mean, I've had, I've had instances where there have been some pastas who've been a bit hostile to accepting me, my sexuality. And my parents have said, No, that's completely not okay. And they've been very, very good on it. And it's kind of helped them understand me a bit more. And I've used I've used Christianity to kind of communicate that a bit with them. But I don't know, it's kind of just been, it's just been a new relationship basis that was kind of kind of came in, I kind of came out to them and stuff. How did [00:25:46] your parents react when you came out with them? They're all cool. Yeah, [00:25:49] basically, they have they always loved me and everything, which is really, really, really good. It's kind of it's it's central to any relationship I think, well, any any healthy relationship, that the person accepts you for who they are, who UR so they'll really, really good with this. [00:26:03] Sounds to me, like [00:26:05] a message of unconditional acceptance has been really helpful to you. [00:26:10] Yep. I can clear either. [00:26:12] Would you say that that's a good thing to offer to those around us who might be going through some of the hardships? [00:26:17] Absolutely. I think in museums, any any in any situation of hardship. any situation of uncertainty. I think it's the best message you can give someone is unconditional love. Yeah.

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