Session 9 - Beyond conference

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[00:00:00] This podcast is brought to you by the queer of inches and pride and [00:00:07] we're going to be talking about realities of gender beyond the binary today we've got three fabulous panelists to talk to then I'm going to read the introductions that they have provided So Alex is under six femme non binary transportation she's a nursing student and facilitates queer transport club yeah comrade in the equation over here hails from not over here when he spent his formative years being confused about which were boys and which will go through which were poisoned which would give us toys [00:00:38] are thinking wow I'm interesting to you [00:00:42] naturalized William Tony and he runs a modest web development business and performs is the largest liquid shoe refit he's recently announced his gender queens but those close to him or her new all along and manage my immediate right is an apt queer identified non binary under six change agent, artist therapist, media commentator, workplace support person and trauma and disaster specialist. So again, they're going to introduce themselves to you and then we're going to have a wonderful flowing conversation with just as this has been recorded for people that do not want to be recorded. Can you flag that before you start to comment or make a question? [00:01:19] That will be very helpful for you? [00:01:21] Dude, here [00:01:22] Okay, let me go. [00:01:28] I can go first. [00:01:31] To very cool no here. I could kinda could you see our Elsa? [00:01:38] I guess. [00:01:40] So, you know, grew up in Ottawa here. [00:01:44] Oh, I cannot put my The Globe Theatre voice on. I grew up in Ottawa here. I was born in 1977. And my parents were kind of hippies, which was kind of lucky. But then this really kind of that was school teacher away. And I always wanted to get my mom's makeup when I was a kid. And we had this great dress up box that had moms clothes on it. And it was just like, sunflower dress that I always really liked. And I always really wanted a Barbie dream house, but I also really wanted to play with Lego and program computers and ride my bike. I've never really am I I am. You know, like, when you have role models, I imprinted on all the wrong role models. So basically Marvel role models were Claire Huxtable. [00:02:29] Alison Moyet. [00:02:32] Yeah. And I got a lot of grace at school. What we probably all did, because I was a girl. But then I was that was complicated. Now, I spent a lot of money on therapists It is so that you guys don't have to listen to all the things we've talked about. [00:02:51] I've been doing drag pretty much since I was a kid. [00:02:56] And recently, well, I think I've known this for a while I submit a photo of the equation was my Drake, nine, total this gender queer blog and kind of wrote this thing. And it was the first time I'd really admitted that I'm like a drag queen. But I think this gender stuff goes a little bit deeper than just wanting to be an entertainer. So true. And every morning, I feel like I make a decision to present as a man. And I don't think everyone in the world. That's really conscious decision. So I get up. And I'm like, Okay, well, I'm running my little business. That's pretty straight. I'm gonna just we're men clothes and my makeup. [00:03:38] Or [00:03:39] I'll be like, Okay, well, maybe I'm going to be a girl today, because you know, I can and while office buddies don't have anyone coming in, that's gonna freak out. Yeah, and it's not always easy. Not over here. And it was a damaged town, it was extremely damaged by colonization can't even be around even enough tears to cry for what happened there. 25% unemployment, domestic abuse, gambling, alcoholism. So my family was really safe and nurturing. But the minute I went down the end of our driveway, you had to look out, because they were chained dogs wasted grown ups, babe, and then appropriately. You know, I mean, my brother's going on lots of fights. And I've taken it with me. But what is something I can never shake free? So when I walk around Wellington, I'm always on high alert, who's going to be trouble? How can I get away? Am I going to like, stretch them out? Or am I going to run you know, like, this is always going through my head. And when I present my fight him now, that's even more dangerous. Because I know that I don't even know why people react so badly. But they do. And I'm laughing, but it's not funny. And it's caused me a lot of anxiety over the years, [00:05:00] take some medication, that helps a little bit. [00:05:05] And I've been lucky as well, because I've got a brain, I was able to get an education. And the reason I'm self employed is because I just can't work for people where I have to present as a man all the time, because that just makes my head explode. And that's probably probably a good kind of introduction to my relationship with Dean the queen. So today, I was like thinking maybe I could be by gender. That'd be a fun word. that there aren't even proper words, really. And, you know, we're just making it up as we go along. In fact, we might do this later. We call that the vocabulary Boyd. [00:05:45] So anyway, thanks. [00:05:51] Right. Okay, next, I'm [00:05:54] gonna, I'm both nervous and excited. And it's interesting, because I really get nervous. And I'm nervous today, because I'm very clearly taking off my head as a therapist, and a professional piece. And then the city, I'm not leaving, and it's part of who I am. But what I want to bring into this space today and try and create some safety is about something else. And this conference is called Beyond the binary. And that's what we're going to be talking about, and celebrating and tumbling with this afternoon. And so, for myself, I started this journey 25 years ago. And when I started, there was nothing. The first images that I got of myself as an under six person was reading a medical textbook. And it was important because it was the first time in my life that I'd seen an image of myself a reflection, but pretty brutal way to introduce who you might be other naked people with black strips across their eyes. That's how I found. So in that 25 years, I feel really excited that we have visibility and I push this slideshow could have been playing, because I wanted this celebration of diversity and those of us who are finding and being and maybe even today, a little bit of having fun about being different and a celebration today. So you know, we have less than an hour now but the Sydney that's what I would like to bring to this. So bring to it heart, bring to a beauty grin to at celebration, but also what you've been talking about those tears because there's a lot of us that didn't get this film that have made it because it was just too hard. [00:07:45] So [00:07:46] yeah, that's who I am. I'm I'm here and my non binary [00:07:53] celebration of all of who I am and [00:07:57] talking about how I got to this place. [00:08:00] Yeah, I'm still a therapist. But that's upside down [00:08:03] and just watching at the moment. [00:08:09] That's a pretty, it's pretty hard speaking of the money, because I think she's just done so much for so many people. And it's just such a wonderful person, and I'm just gonna ignored her before. [00:08:21] And it was great hearing a bit more about you commented on the ever seen you in Dr. As a, you know, as an entertainer, so it's nice to hear stuff. [00:08:33] So, I also want to say that I am feeling quite anxious today. So please bear with me if I'm not the best. [00:08:43] So [00:08:44] for me, [00:08:46] I guess, you know, so I said that, I'm going to select some also, trends. And in case anyone is unfair about that, those are separate things for me there, you know, into weapon, but for a lot of they are separate. [00:09:03] And [00:09:06] so I identify as non binary. But beyond that, I don't really have any labels for myself, I don't see myself as gender queer. I thought for a little while, but I might feel good with the term neutron, which means like neutral, but again, I don't really feel like that's me either. And it was, I suppose, for me coming to terms with my gender or finding my gender has been? I don't think I'll ever find it or, you know, describe it. But I mean, that's part of the beauty of it. For everybody, I think. But, um, so for me, I think, I mean, as someone who's intersects, and my particular type of body, because not, again, not this isn't everyone's experience. But for me, I was quite obviously. [00:10:01] Well, I heard that people were talking about earlier, I have not really passed since I was about 12, as [00:10:10] part of the binary. And so that's been an interesting experience. For me. It's been difficult dealing with some of the stuff that people put on you. But it's also I feel been quite useful for me in learning how to like, not give a shit about what people say. [00:10:30] And [00:10:33] so even though I didn't present as part of the binary for a very long time, I didn't actually really consider my gender very much until maybe like three or four years ago. And when I realized that I didn't identify as a woman. And it was kind of a slow process for me going more if I'm not a woman, and I must be a man. That was kind of a silly leap, I guess. But I didn't know any better. And so from there going, Well, actually, I don't feel like that sits right with me. And sort of trying to find words for myself and trying to find sort of ways of being in my body. And I was thinking today how different it's been for me figuring out what it is that I want out of my body, because it's been quite passionate for me recently. Going through some issues with getting hormones and getting surgery and stuff like that, and just seeing how much things have changed for me in terms of wanting different things for my body over time. And I think acknowledging Yes, so for me, my agenda really has changed a lot. And what I want from my body and how my comfort levels with different parts of my body and what I want done to my body, what I want to do with my body has changed so much. And so I don't, I think that for me, it's not just fluidity within a spectrum within people's fluidity through time, that I think is quite an important thing to ignore. [00:12:17] So I guess, [00:12:19] and [00:12:22] we'll talk through some of the things that I thought was relevant for me, just a couple of points [00:12:28] that I wanted to bring to today [00:12:30] that we've never talked before about what we're doing. Some the flow will be wonderful. [00:12:36] And so just just thoughts that I came up with, that were relevant to me for what the what we're talking about today is beyond beyond the gender of binary. And they are very specific to one thing, but anyway, so one of the things, I've noticed that in terms, and again, this is in terms of more intensive transgender identity. So for me, is I often get lumped in with trans masculine people, and which is with me, because I don't actually identify with masculinity at all, and people might be looking at me and that is, but yeah, presentation and how you feel are quite different things. And also, I feel that the assumption that there can be trust masculine, the feminine any, for everyone is quiet rooted in the idea that sex is a binary. And so you're moving from one thing to another thing, one district category to another district category. And those i don't i find that quite difficult. So the that those terms, I guess, if we're talking about vocabulary, those terms of kind of difficult for me. [00:13:50] And, [00:13:52] I guess, kind of LinkedIn with that the binary assumptions that even within the queer community who I feel like we should know better, lots of time, I feel like, we still assume that, you know, if somebody appears to be not transgender, we assume assume that they are still binary identified. So even for example, even your friend who was a butch woman, before read her as a trans man that like there's no other option than like a feminine woman and a masculine man. And I find that really bizarre. [00:14:29] And that's where then the cursing, that's not. [00:14:33] And [00:14:35] a little bit like Jim, with what Conrad said about how non binary isn't just gender queer it is things like by gender neutral, and often we kind of, I feel like there's this thing where like, those things are conflated, and that there are many types of non binary identities. [00:15:04] I have a point as well. And so because I was just thought about the thing about just see it and my story, spot on the Susan way can be real hip a girlfriend grew up in the ghetto was real high, just I just walking around town. That's all for real, but life's great as well. And one of the things that I think I would like to see come out of the session as kind of some solutions. And I would like, especially people younger than me, or a different part of the life to not have to go through the same silly bullshit that I went through. I think that's for me a really thinking been quite excited about. I'm sorry, I don't know, I always want to fight for it at this point. I want to turn this over my console of the century. And it's funny that you know, this book before I get into this, I just want to say, I've also read that I think we've talked a lot about my lady self has been quite clothes and makeup, but it's, it's about behaviors and attitudes as well. And when there's a whole blood sociology doctorate, amorous about how different attitudes and behaviors ascribed to men and women, I mean, the real like, my take on it was like hunter gatherer and nurturer, but it's like, way more complicated than the ones like that. And I know that I don't subscribe to all the guys stuff. Or even worse for the satellite broken in my mind I try make sense of how the world does not like how does everyone else do this might not be at a conflict engage interest and my life James and ironic hits the T shirt. Because I do a lot of work and design for tuna say, and I look around and I'll see others, this woman dress like me, men have a lot also they can come and we can resign same even though we like different genders. So just go with me here. And look at some of the account managers this woman purchase, like drag queens that are might fit in that office dress, like Yo, they would be such a huge deal. And it's like so much power to just some bits of fabric. And I know that when I try and sometimes talk to other people about these crazy ideas, I just kind of get this like look. Communication and totally dead. It's got like the days on that I know he loves he chose that it's okay. But anyway, what I want us to do was if we could like maybe name some of our heroes, heroines or queer ones, people that would just kind of shout it out in a crate crazy kind of way. So I'll start. [00:18:00] Yeah, [00:18:02] God is around. [00:18:12] David the bridge. [00:18:18] And Captain Janeway from statuary. [00:18:23] We're talking so far. [00:18:32] One of the nice things about getting away from binary is we're now in a multi dimensional in a limitless world that has no beginning and no end and endless possibilities. [00:18:46] Smoking my Tommy Philip CN, along with [00:18:56] the kind of solution stuff, it's just community is helping people to look out for each other. So one of the things I really encourage people to do after this session is friend each other on Facebook, follow each other on Twitter, get an email address, get the phone number, because we're all we've got, you know, [00:19:14] yeah, really, we just got to look out for each other. Yeah, [00:19:20] Conrad and I were talking about this, let's talk about one of my friends in San Francisco, those of you who have seen intersection where they've seen TG so CJ, when she was young was part of the straight mafia and San Francisco. And there was terrible violence against the predictively, the queer community, the non standard community. And so the community decided that do something about it, and they were martial arts trained, and they used to walk around at night with the the team had handcuffs, and they had was, so if some bad shit was going down, you could blow your list. So empty, [00:20:00] skies would arise. [00:20:02] And whoever was harassing people, they would break them on the ground, [00:20:07] and cut them [00:20:08] and then match them into the nearest cop [00:20:10] shop, and just throw them in through the door. So these people would arrive cuffed, because the cops hit to do something, because he had somebody in handcuffs, and they had to cut them out of them. They couldn't just not do anything. And it's like a story that's really beautiful. And and we've forgotten how to do that we've forgotten actually, that we're entitled to be safe in our communities. And how might we do that, because in Wellington, at the moment, it's not very safe, it's not even safe, particularly during the day, and it's certainly not safe at night. And lots of places, if you're presenting in a non binary way, [00:20:48] is actually enough for you everyone. [00:20:52] So what I'm going to do is [00:20:53] make some noise. Yeah. [00:20:57] You're gonna hand them out. [00:21:00] Take one and pass it on. [00:21:10] To pull them up, [00:21:11] just put them off the top, they don't just go. [00:21:15] Mike too much. [00:21:32] Hello, this is complete accident. [00:21:35] Like a total production [00:21:55] is the space to open it up and just [00:21:57] start talking. every [00:22:04] conversation I was doing last week, about a guy who has brings an end to the first time many years from the last time she had been dead. [00:22:20] And he didn't know how to deal with this concept. He was he was ordering something. And it was a very unusual concept. And so instead of talking about that are talking about, you know, marriage equality, it's like, Are you okay with the concept or the fact that married to men get married? Now? It's like, yeah, of course, it's like, okay, 20 years ago, you couldn't deal with that, because marriage was between a man and a woman. That was how it was, as they were together. And that was the only way of dealing with it. And now we've got this great sex wasn't there. 20 years ago, we used to be more years ago, you were a man before you were only attractive woman. And that was the only way to be. And now there was this grind. And we have to deal with that. And I think one of the best things about the last [00:23:12] 18 years, and I'm sure that everybody's gonna have a different number for this. [00:23:16] The binary isn't the grace that we accept within our community kind of started going up and up enough enough, and that the space between what was assumed to be the only possibilities has grown massively. And that's great. Like, that's the only way that we can be getting to a place where they will succeed exceptions for people that don't feel like that. And I don't really necessarily have any answers for the people that we have for those for those spaces that are the but I just kind of an observation that those spaces have become much more common, mostly by people working really fucking hard. [00:23:57] Thank you. [00:24:00] I'm about to respond to that. And I definitely agree with you [00:24:07] that things are different than they were in the 80s, which is kind of as far back as I can remember. [00:24:15] However, [00:24:16] I have noticed that just at the moment and now kind of pop culture is provided by the media giants of LA and little bit England. It's pretty gene that at the moment, actually pretty gendered. Miley Cyrus is Miley Cyrus and boys the boys in and I think they put my longing to the like, hero and shake androgynous models of Calvin Klein's 90s campaigns or glam rock in the 70s. The [00:24:42] other world means it's just an observation. [00:24:45] That Yeah, [00:24:47] the popular culture has become quite binary. Oh, and actually the other thing as well as children's toys Oh, my God, because we powerful rage. Really, like pink, pink, blue bow bow bow. Hello. And I remember things in the you know, kind of especially late 70s, early 80s it was a bit more kind of Kumbaya, and you know, league I was for everyone. I didn't have to go for girls, you know, anyway. I'm not just like, [00:25:16] man, y'all get it. [00:25:21] Okay. [00:25:27] Food Company, their yoga, this market is meant [00:25:33] to be a man. And it's mainly read books, really. I know. [00:25:43] Some glance I can actually ask that a little bit. Because I've got a background in marketing and advertising there Cooper. Company was looking at like, like, this is what I'm thinking. And some of the younger company was probably going How can we sell more yoga fits by now yoga. Yoga is the official food of life days, when it is a mental body or gut. And so a lot of that decision is like, it's the same with like, cosmic Tiger that really like what we should be selling this to everyone and managed to make here, people and so that's pretty sociopathic. Actually. I'm not a big fan of the industry or weird fan, but like I forgot to pay the rent. [00:26:22] And it's interesting what you were saying about the [00:26:26] the fact that you can go to an event with a woman wearing jeans and a T shirt that are going to come to the jeans and a T shirt you're wearing. But then in the office, the counter, basically Dre something that you can't wear and I mean, it [00:26:44] goes all the way through to the point where Cosmopolitan [00:26:46] magazine whatever, like I don't actually read it but fashion magazines are selling boyfriends James for women. And so it's it's okay more for women to women's clothing, but it's not the converse is not acceptable. And I bet that's just really said that women have [00:27:06] more freedom and pop culture to transgress the gender binary. [00:27:13] To be a woman I fought a long hard battle for the yellow face of others the word feminists I walk into the store like an excellent [00:27:20] buddy. Well, I don't want to flood keep talking talking. Because I've got up there. [00:27:26] I want to say that the binary gender thing of media stuff. That is why when there are surveys and ask your gym, how we never had some survey on say, my way to my agenda because it just encouraged me to sit and listen to product designed for for civil genitals and they should be asked me what my generals But no, never do that, you know, something that's a problem with speed. [00:27:51] And again, therapists sort of behaving well Heck, on the floor upside down. One of the disruptive things, it's just happened in New Zealand and transport authorities got no idea what they've done. So one of the things that came out of the transgender inquiry was the reality that it's very difficult in this country for people to change markets. So now in your license, when you apply one of the things that you the categories that anybody has, it was for emphasis. So [00:28:26] the category is [00:28:30] night is it I know. [00:28:36] It will come to you in the shower, [00:28:37] it'll come to me in the shower, but anybody can apply for it. So when you go to get you a new driver's license, you can apply for this category. It's the effort and the six people but [00:28:51] it's anybody if they want to you can apply for [00:28:57] the good thing, bad thing with just a thing. [00:29:00] Oh, it's just a thing. And one of the things I thought would be hilariously funny would be just to set a movement so that everybody doesn't hurt because suddenly then gender is meaningless. [00:29:15] I have a question the models do they have [00:29:19] that it kind of stems from it. So the the fact that we don't collect census information about sexuality or gender diversity? What the people on this panel, think about the two tix campaign, [00:29:33] brain living going back to earlier indeterminate. So anybody can become an determinant on the driver's license. [00:29:41] It's the same with your passport. [00:29:44] not mandatory a minute, that's another category and passport techniques. But entertainment is illegal category in New Zealand that was set up in the 1950s for children who are born in 76. me a desire to be good the transport people hold it out of the fifth days, which is so funny. [00:30:09] So you expected to text? [00:30:14] I thought it was a good idea. I don't know. Because I mean, I, I'm pretty [00:30:18] sure that [00:30:20] it's from what I've been. Because I'm a nursing student, I'm looking at this kind of thing. But from what I know, census information that then gets used by the government to determine what they do with a lot of stuff like in especially in terms of health care. And I think that that's an issue that's relevant for transgender and intersex people this needs to do with healthcare and measuring inequalities and that kind of thing. And there's a lot of inequalities and other areas as well, but just more becoming visible unless they actually start to measure them already on [00:30:55] that TX campaign as good as a disruptor. But it doesn't actually change anything, because what happens is that data and put people then game do you have your name, so if you have a normative male or female name, you'll be put down on the basis of your name, which, again, I didn't know this when I changed my name, sign money, and no one knows how to Agenda Manny. And then they look at Bruce and they got one so we got this one. So I know from a census point of view that I'll be down his mail. It's a battle that gays and lesbians have been fighting for a long time nearly 30 years and newseum to include the data on the seats us and I remember being in a meeting probably three years ago and we've been talking for nearly two hours and finally the boss and there's this woman black with a single thousand dollars with a gold on hit and she stood there and she said we're not going to change anything because it will corrupt the data and it was just wonderful because the rain is based on historical left. Aunty didn't get it she didn't actually understand that the data is already corrupted. And that and doing this we might actually start to interrupt the data. But that's their argument. That's why they don't want to change [00:32:17] corrupted data. [00:32:20] A little bit of a tangent but of like a bit of a personal thing to share. And that's a little bit [00:32:27] a little came into my mind after going to there being a good Parliament session, which was hilarious because I've been staying up with my aunt oh my god is such power is how much autopilot me Oh, brilliant mother. But this poem is and it is like how long is it worry about the height of the neighbors trade that's my hand. [00:32:46] Anyway, that was talking about [00:32:51] because you know I'm like [00:32:54] even though like on my own by gender gender queer like identifies a gay men as well, because it's just all gone. What's up big hairy man Ah, so much. That's all I want. I'm not really clear on that. That's one theory. As always. [00:33:09] I hit hit these like non sexual romantic infatuation with Captain Janeway and Scully. [00:33:16] I'm kind of in love with them, but it's not in the 60 Love is something else. And so if I think about what I feel like, I feel kind of guilty, like because I can really quickly pass this ma'am. I'm not it's not even I didn't come to try before handsome guy. As long as I don't, you know, that's fine. And I feel some guilt about that. And I, I, I try and treat really respectfully when I'm dealing with the trans community. And I'm surprised that I haven't had more aggro, on the interview about having a beard and doing drag, because there was like a food that some people feel like that parody in the process of transition, which is not fun at all. But I just wanted to kind of say, you know, just say that there's a sense of that, sometimes. And I feel like it's a little bit like people were talking on the session before about being bisexual, and not being really obvious of a queer. And that's, you know, that's the experience I have as well, it's not obvious that magenta is a little bit geeky. So the main, I guess the reason I'm sharing it is because when I talk to people about the stuff, often they'll go our power, may toe wild water, people have talked about the stuff. So this guy. [00:34:37] So coming back to another thing that we started, if the beginning, it's around language. And the English language, particularly is so bereft of anything outside the binary, and there's some exploring, and there's some attempts to change that. And I think it's really important to acknowledge that it is very much not to a Eurocentric thing, that there are other cultures and other language constructs that are completely beyond the binary. And so my sense is that the culture that I come from, if I talk about for back into European, probably, England, Scotland, that I think in the past that it existed. So this idea of the binary construction of game that is quite new, I don't think it's about and it will be really interesting to understand more how that came to be. So I think part of what's going on at the moment, and this claiming and adding to it, one of the things it's really important to me, I'm not saying that the binary is wrong or bad. I'm just saying, let's add some, some other components and late and say, let's make this thing fabulous and layered and reflective, rather than this notion of turn. [00:36:01] Know what I mean? Just, [00:36:03] yeah. Yeah, [00:36:06] I totally agree it is the way to kind of [00:36:11] combat a binary is not to say that those things are wrong, it's to make it a multiplicity. And otherwise, you're just setting up a new binary between like, MJ binary and program. [00:36:24] Just just seem silly. And I mean, it's also just respecting people's who they are, it's not fair to just say, Oh, well, your gender is wrong, because you [00:36:34] are binary gender. Excellent. [00:36:39] When I was, like, just studying college, I was about 13. And I'm never saying, the school counselor. And it wasn't [00:36:51] the awesome school counselor was the school counselor came on every other day that everyone tried to just not say. And I was just talking to her about how [00:37:06] I realized that I didn't really feel like I fit. And [00:37:12] category I ok, Green Bay. [00:37:16] And her response was that [00:37:21] it was another option. [00:37:25] And she mentioned said, it would be really have to me, because I went to a uniform college, I wouldn't be able to deal with the no uniform tonight. And that's why it's not a third option. [00:37:39] If you don't wear a skirt, if you don't [00:37:42] think obviously. Yeah. [00:37:48] Yeah. And [00:37:51] that lack of actually have access to that language meant that for the next however many years until I turned it like 19. I didn't know there was any other option. So [00:38:05] to be able to actually see [00:38:09] language kind of being created and like evolving. [00:38:14] Things like specifically nine times how I feel about my agenda, this really awesome just to actually say that an action. [00:38:26] One of the things that was a real, total mind blowing moment for me, was when I realized that I'd really have tantalized this idea idea that to be a person who came to be a man. And so I felt like some of my more masculine, which I would describe this life so much side was coming from this idea that it was my personhood, and that once I got rid of the idea, or examined don't would just even notice that was there he go, Oh, right. Okay, [00:38:53] cool. [00:38:54] So that he doesn't really might seem, and the man was able to move on and get to a point, boss, and neither female boss soft watch and had female, but I'm like, you know, and you can have both of them. And it's cold as well, you know, like she [00:39:11] didn't choose to take what you want. [00:39:15] from him. Yeah, something that I've learned through my exploration of labels. And the problem that I've always keep on hitting is that labels don't define a person you define your own life is to describe yourself to other people is someone through a whole load of labels of like gender and sexuality. And at the moment, I defined my gender as gender, which is my name, because they don't get to define what the gym genders between them. [00:39:43] So we're getting close to the end of our hour, which is really sad. And there's lots of people who haven't spoken and that's fine. This is not a compulsory to let everybody speak. But I do want to create a space where people can speak if they want to. So let's get into the small groups lead groups of two or three, and just check in with the person, you know, sitting near you. Are they feeling okay? Is there anything that they want to say to say that we actually do create from here what we've been talking about what to sort of speak from safety and, you know, a place to talk and it's okay to say anything. And then we'll, we'll figure out how the record is carrying the energy and the buzz that will happen, I'm really sad that we, we need to sort of pull it pull it to an index that we do. So So watch out for the emerging mafia and we might actually be able to get to a point blank and San Francisco in the 70s that you can blow on your whistle. And something good would happen, which would be the handcuffs would arrive. [00:40:53] Maybe we practice and celebrating, see just how much noise we can make in here. [00:41:20] Okay, everyone, thank you for participating in such a beautiful and interactive session. I just want to thank Yeah, fabulous participants for smashing the binary for us and showing us all the ends that exist in there. And thank you all for being part of it, too.

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