Session 13 - Beyond conference

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[00:00:00] This podcast is brought to you [00:00:02] by the queer ventures and privacy a.com [00:00:07] Okay, good morning everybody. I'm sorry for the slight delay [00:00:11] but we're getting a runaway now. [00:00:15] This morning we have [00:00:17] in Addison [00:00:22] as a queer podcaster you active in socialist politics. [00:00:26] Me is also going to speak to us the generation secular colonists and Palestine [00:00:30] and feminist and Palestine solidarity activists. [00:00:35] And MZ is going to speak as well, [00:00:38] to be honest penalty, but it's great [00:00:39] that she's able to [00:00:40] think of us to this morning. [00:00:43] Remember, Shakti, [00:00:44] a feminist organization within a family violence in Asian, Asian Middle East and enacting communities [00:00:49] in Oxford or [00:00:51] Australia. [00:00:53] And we have another speaker who we have the arrival shortly, [00:00:57] which was an audio teacher and exit Costanzo [00:01:01] there [00:01:02] to work end up enjoying. Oh, thanks. Yeah. So the station, we're going to be talking about imperialism, nationalism and queer liberation, and obscure sort of warning beforehand that they'll be some discussion of torture and sexual violence. So you know, that that's just picking up and yeah. Okay, so start with something that was one of the initial reasons why we wanted to have this discussion. And I'm not against the people who participated in this and this particular action I participated. I get where it's coming from. But I think it shows some of the problems with with where queer politics all right right now and a lot of the kind of imperialist world. So this this was a call out call for a I rally in solidarity with people in Russia and globally against against square oppression. That said, citizens will march and rally in cities across the globe, Rio, London, Berlin, New York, Sydney, and more standing up against inequality and discrimination. The time has come where we send a message to countries like Russia, Uganda, Iran, and every phone no slice trans oppressive nation, that all humans are created equal and deserve freedom. We must take a stand. So what do people get out of their country? Is there any like issues people can see with that? [00:02:42] Is it countries like the UK and Australia in America on on trends? Christian nations? [00:02:49] Yeah, exactly. So for example, in a country where trans woman to 20 times more likely to the presence and then other people, that that those those nations aren't trans oppressor. So it's like there's a set of nations which are which are not on trans oppressive instead of nations that are [00:03:09] so this, [00:03:10] yes. All humans are currently [00:03:14] one of those countries being colonized. Yeah. All a single stats. Yes. Yeah. [00:03:24] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. So and on the one side, you have all humans are created equal, which is obviously from all men are created equal starts growing from the US Constitution that's tying and so this is kind of tying and, like queer liberation and theory with, like, with the United States, in particular, and with allegiance with the United States. And so it sets up this, these this two sided kind of binary thing, equality freedom on one side, and also minority world, imperialist nations on one side, and then hold on trans oppressive and equality and discrimination. And majority will nations on the other side, or at least nations not aligned with the US, and a lot of cases. So Russia, for example. And then, we've got so so this kind of is like the idea of the West versus the race is kind of one of the ways you could kind of frame that. What are some other differences? One difference, we could say if the binary here is kind of US and Russia, which obviously Russia was kind of the great, you know, the great evil for us imperialism for a long time. One comparison you can make is that the first US state legal, I saw me in 1962, and I was legalized nationwide in 2003. Whereas the first legalization of homosexuality in Russia, which was arguably the first legalization after setting up the kind of legal infrastructure that police homosexuality in Europe, was in 1917. So this isn't to say that Russia has necessarily a bit of break or in the US at all, it's decided that the way we understand these differences are like ideological and the fact that we're the fact that it's considered normal that the US definitely has a better record. And the rest of the world definitely has a worse record as is obviously a distortion. So this is Orientalism. So it's kind of the idea of the waist against the rest, which you know, it would say talks about this that the basic distinction between the East and the West as the starting point. For elaborating theories concerning the Orient. So in the Orient, obviously is a it's kind of a construction here. And as it conflates a lot of different situations until one. And he says the whole point is not that it's a misrepresentation of some oriental essence, which he doesn't for a moment believe, but that operates as representations usually do for a purpose according to a tendency in a specific historical, intellectual and legal, even economic status. So in other words, these devices are being used to justify by a certain kind of domination. It's not as it's not necessarily that are accurate or inaccurate, but that being used in a certain way to certificate certain kind of power. So how did we get to this kind of division of the world, because it hasn't always existed, and it won't always exist. So Leslie Feinberg argues, and transgender warriors that a human history with compressed into a year 360 days would consist of communal societies with normalized gender and sexual diversity. So for example, faff in a and Sam was, as an example of this, or, you know, attacked halfway enough at all, you know, there's a huge range of gender and sexual diversity. It's essentially the gender and sexual diversity throughout human history. And only the last five days of human history would consist of class societies with a sort of punitive gene, punitively sort of policed gender binary and a piece of the penis of a police family structure. So, again, how do we get here and this is a game that's compressing thousands of years of history in Feinberg's 10s, and five days, and here in a few minutes, so it's going to be simplistic, but this is kind of this is looking specifically at the history that happened in Europe, because you're within, within the here, the exporter of a particular model of gender, and sexuality worldwide, you know, through colonization. So you had the emergence of class society, the need to, he had the emergence of, you know, surplus, so, so you could, because people could rely on the labor of others into it. So they took to in order to protect this private property and protect patriarchal inheritance, you saw the enforcement of this new strict gender binary, so in early sort of, [00:07:56] early on, in the sort of Judeo Christian tradition, and you know, and Jupyter on me, and you first started to say, you know, proposition of Unix, saying, you know, there'll be no people are wounded, and the stones cannot be in the kingdom of the Lord. So then this was like to do with policing, previously existing pagan, pagan traditions, fair, you know, various traditions of gender and gender and sexual diversity, to protect this new patriarchal private property system. So, there was a global expansion from here. So the expansion to the Americas, which which began to unfold is the change of binary and the struggle against this colonization was also, you know, was also a struggle for, for these, these forms of society, which, which were more, which had more gender and sexual diversity. So for example, later on, when you had Crazy Horse resisting, resisting us, resisting colonization, Crazy Horse head, head head names, I granted him to spread names granted him and I had relationships with two separate people. So um, whereas the colonial authorities worldwide were trying to enforce this kind of strict, strict new agenda system. So for example, here and in this country, there was a worry that men were men in the colonies were having sex with each other too much. So they had to bring more women over so they could see that nuclear families. So this was a very, very deliberate strategy of of enforcing this new system. But I'm kind of skipping ahead of myself there, because then from the emergence of feudalism, you had the capitalist revolutions and the Americas and in France, and which, which kind of created a new kind of agenda binary, and Eugene, the division of labor, so you've had the division between particularly unpaid women's work and, and paid men's work. And with that, from colonization, the establishment of global imperialism so that economic, military, and cultural dominance of a global majority by a global minority and all that time you've had resistance movements, so they were they the European presence movements, use cross tracing as a form of resistance, scrap find big claims, john Kovach as a transgender warrior, because they were sentenced, not strictly speaking, for resisting, resisting, like the dominance of the church, militarily, but for cross streets then, and there were also folk heroes like Rebecca and adulterers, who cross traced when they're smashing, smashing toll gates, among other things. So there was a form of prison resistance and Europe also and struggles against colonization. So I mentioned got crazy force, who had you know, as well as struggling for land and all that was struggling for the protection of our culture, which was which was more diverse in terms of gender and sexuality. And through you, new workers movements, you saw, you saw a new struggles for, for gender and sexual liberation. So So you saw in the, like, late 19th, early 20th century struggles that that combination, for example, and the Russian Revolution, which I previously mentioned, which which saw the, you know, legalization of something which have been prohibited only in the last last few centuries, on a relatively recently, you could say, and the urban struggles, so you had gender non conforming folks guy clashing with police and these and these in the new sort of urban urban settings. And out of out of all this, and this sort of particular set of historical contradictions, you saw the emergence of a politics of gay visibility. So they were sort of for a long time, before what we now know Skype as well as but only really, in the last century and a half, maybe you had an establishment of men's sort of politics organization. So they were kind of Bailey, you could say, fairly conservative. So there was the homosexual Law Reform society in the UK, the American society in the US, the door and society here. And those predated Stonewall, they want some legal reforms. And at the same time, you had the street level struggles that were happening, which also predated Stonewall, and then summer riots in 1969. And the imperialist world, you saw the emergence of the Gay Liberation Front, so this was in New York, in the US, and the context of much bigger, much bigger struggles. You saw riots were were basically people took on, people took on police, and there was some people like Sylvia, Sylvia Rivera, [00:12:58] who, [00:12:59] who are involved in other struggles at the time, were quite, we're quite a were at the forefront of that. And out of that, there was a politics of gay visibility. So people marching on the street, saying, you know, we're here, that kind of thing. And that momentarily kind of merged a number of struggles, but they quickly broke apart again. So. So in the early 70s, there was a split between the transcripts and the gay groups. So from the Gay Liberation Front and then street transaction revolutionaries, which was Sylvia Rivera's for and the more sort of gay rights groups like the Human Rights Campaign. And so over the following decades, the new gay movement won some legal reforms. So removal from from the DSM that was sort of the the sort of no longer being a mental illness. I saw legalization, you saw civil unions. Now marriage, and the US the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell quite recently. So and so now in this context, this with this, you know, this guy movement that's one they struggle with, so you say, what gets turned our hormone normal activity, this is bye bye sort of discourse terrace relatively recently, online or whatever it and color nationalism. So in the Post Pro Bowl here is kind of emerged as the the only creative or ideological option the arbiter of feminism and freedom struggles, and queer identity as queer Queen as this kind of contingent of sort of reliant on these these wider structures of power. So we can't understand clearness without understanding its relationship to these wider structures of power. So to simplify our normal activity could be sort of the SS, an idea that benefits or as form of struggle with that voiceprint it's kind of Wyatt monogamous. People who want to marry a member of the same sex and have children, which isn't necessarily anything against those people, but it's leaving everyone else behind. And in his home nationalism, which is kind of craziness that is contingent or reliant on structures of imperialist nationalism, so we can see Lady Gaga here, where, where it's kind of this craziness, she's in front of a US flag talking about Don't Ask, Don't Tell, talking about how our boys should be able our boys on the front line should be able to live out the closet. So this this Quila fantasy that's validated through going out and killing people in Afghanistan and Iraq. And so, so Jeff, just before and this is, this is obviously, part of how the cultural dominance of imperialism as justified says the ascendancy of whiteness does not require hater sexuality so much as it requires hater our normal activity, or its remember, in the form of one on one with everything, so, so part of the cultural cultural dominance of imperialism is justified through these gender and sexual systems. So, Abu Ghraib, which which is an example, just before I goes into a bit, and this is obviously what I was warning about, so if people if people aren't comfortable with this, you know, let someone let me know, kind of thing. But, or leave or, yeah, anyway. So anyway, so this in terms of alpha brain, which was, I'm sure people are aware as a case where a number of photos of people being tortured. Were in Afghanistan, we're sorry, we're at were released. And this is, the next picture that was that this narrative of cultural difference was used to plan these methods of torture. So there was kind of this whole thing of, well, [00:17:07] in a lot of discussions of torture, by you know, by in US documents, there was a discussion that, well, Arab men and Muslim men are not comfortable with homosexuality, so we need to force them into these situations in order to, in order to talk to them, and then to criticize the torture, people are saying, Well, you know, people are not respecting cultural difference, you know, they're not respecting the Arab men and Muslim men uncomfortable with, with these forms of sexuality, not that, you know, that a Western person, like, you know, would, you know, would be obviously perfectly comfortable with being tortured and forced to do things against their will do sexual things against their will, as if, as if it was the era of men's homophobia, that was, that was the torture and not not the actual for, you know, not the actual violation of consent and the methods of torture. So, just before us is given the unbridled homophobia, among other phobias demonstrated by the US gods, it is ironic, it predictable that the US emerges as sexually exceptional, least homophobic and more tolerant of homosexuality, and lyst tainted by misogyny and fundamentalism, then there are praised modest, you notice the shy Middle East. So even now with us, you know, with us clearly, like violent and sexually violent form of form of sort of imperialism. So, as I said before us is the RN symbolizes the space of repression and perversion, and the side of freedom has has been relocated to Western identity. And at the same time, imperialist violence against woman is normalized, because it's not considered exceptional that women are right. And during wartime that's considered extreme know that men are forced to do sexual things against their will during wartime. So you had Mubarak here, who was a guy, a gay man of Arab descent, talks about how there's this playing by people in the gay and lesbian community, that the invasion occupation of Iraq is not a gay issue. And this and he says, The crumbled here because because as a gay man and a person of Arab descent, he found a double, double staying, and he was wondering, he was wondering, essentially, was the problem that they were, was it more was the was it considered more despicable that they were forming get six or that they were Arabs? And this was that being considered a form of? Yeah. And so he said, these are, these are essentially the same issues for me. [00:19:58] Okay, and so, more recently, I think, and an example of how Homer nationalism has played out, which is bringing us back to the initial kind of discussion I saw that from is, is the recent stuff around Russia, where I think Russia and Eastern Europe generally depending on circumstances, and depending on cetera, after spending on power can be Costa is kind of white, or its Oriental, depending on what what purpose and what sort of power is being served. So, for example, during the Cold War, Russia was kind of was you know, the, the pulse of extra cost is you know, as as Jewish, you know, long eyebrows kind of carrot, you know, Eastern oriental characters. So, depending on what speaks that can be cast as white or oriental. And just so a journey. And I think the the way, a lot of the Russia stuff has been cast has been quite orientalist, so. So the, you've seen, obviously, recently, there's been a real entrenchment of homophobia. It's part of the sort of nation building project. It also involves attacks on ethnic minorities. And it's because of like an economic and security that, that that these groups are being scapegoated. And so LGBT groups and Russia have advised against boycotts advised against the Olympics, boycott, for example. And whereas a lot of prominent game in and gay groups have called a code for boycotts, but particularly boycotting the Olympics moving into Vancouver, which is, you know, which is colonized land and the previous Olympics in Vancouver. They were they were boycott struggles because of that. And whereas the LGBT groups and Russia argue for politics of visibility, the western groups aren't really paying attention and have even called for boycotts on supposedly Russian vodka, which actually isn't produced in Russia. So actually not paying attention to the situation and just kind of thinking they can go ahead and do it do this for other people. So what does this mean for politics of global clear, clear quality, which is that was the slogan that was used for this action and civic square and solidarity with Russia? And it's, it's a slogan that I like, I like the idea of it. But what would it mean? What would politics of global queer quality look like? I think partly it means paying attention to the voices of gender minorities and the majority world and in general, paying attention to the voices of people you are solid with and not not trying to act for people. And main struggles for gender and sexual liberation must also main struggles for cultural and economic liberation, and those things can't be entirely divorced. And there's a couple of quotes which I think described. walks I say that says, which nobody spray until everybody's free. So instead of this idea of people in the West End, free and other people is unafraid, that, that nobody's free until everybody's free. [00:23:06] And also a quote [00:23:07] from Caliban, actors, someone who a communist to oppose World War One. When many of the socialists of the time was supporting local one said, or the reformists, he said the main enemy is at home. So for us, I think, for particularly, you know, white people in the imperialist world, the main enemy is at home. [00:23:28] That's me, and we'll [00:23:29] move on. Yeah. [00:23:35] You're right. I'm [00:23:38] so I'm specifically talking about pen quarter. But I kind of wanted to start by fleshing out some of the things [00:23:44] that if you do so like in [00:23:48] said, by Homer normative, we mean, a normative way of being gay, but to do but the proper gay person is someone who's monogamous. Why middle class, you know, got lots of those pink dollars, definitely not disabled, because disabled people aren't even supposed to have a sexuality. And for numerous of gay, someone who just wants to be equal, just wants to be able to serve their country in the military to get a job and get married and have babies and fit into a normative society. You know, so this is the person who's really non threatening because they don't want to destroy marriage over nuclear family, which was really important institutions, and very, just like you and I should have equality. homo nationalism stands for hormone normative nationalism. And it's a bad way but because of LGBT you guys, but actually, usually just G and l guy gets used to pick up nationalism and to justify imperialism and militarism. [00:24:58] So for example, when people use [00:25:03] arguments about a culture being homophobic, or Muslim culture, being homophobic to justify imperialist who was on countries like either with Danny Stern, or on a more local level, I think we saw a lot of that and the kind of media discussion we had the Marriage Equality Act, where it was like, Oh, the problem is, Pacific Islanders, we culture is conservative and really religious and patriarchal and like these nice white people that totally support equality. And I think it's worth thinking about the kind of correlation that exists between the social acceptance of some with normative gays, and the guise of particularly anti immigrant, anti muslim racism, because identity is always defined in opposition to someone. And it's like this one oppressed group or a section of it has being allowed into the fold of proper Society of normative society, at the expense of someone else on which, like Ian was saying is about emphasizing this dichotomy between the white West, which is modern and progressive and liberal, and the brown east, you know, Arabs and Muslims of South East Indians and other populations that are constructed as conservative and patriarchal and homophobic and violent and backwards and dangerous, too serious. Question is specifically about the way that GLBT you guys are used as a marketing strategy to whitewash over unethical behavior. So we see that in the corporate world, where we have this kind of gay friendly pink dollar marketing campaigns that are used to distract us from the way that corporations treat their workers. And we also see it For example, when the New Zealand Defense Force wins and award for being really inclusive of LGBT personnel, which is a nice way of distracting us from the fact that the strategic NTS that when New Zealand Defence Force is protecting, usually onto the interests of the people who actually live in the countries were being invaded. So the purpose of this talk I'm going to specifically concentrate on as Yeah, [00:27:26] as an example of pink washing. [00:27:30] And that is mostly because I'm Israeli Or more accurately, I'm a secular columnist on Palestinian land. I [00:27:45] I'm not 100% sure how familiar you guys all are with the situation and Palestine at the moment. So I'm going to summarize that really quickly. So the yellow bits on the map of the Gaza Strip and for West Bank, collectively known as the Occupy Palestinian territories, in Gaza, Palestinians living at this stage in the West Bank, they live under military occupation, the bluebirds as a 1948 territory, which is more commonly known as gay, and Palestinian citizens, as well as subject to a whole lot of legal and institutional discrimination as well as discrimination on a personal level. So just one example we have a hotline and as Yeah, that people can farm to import Jewish women who are dating Palestinian men. Meanwhile, there are 7 million Palestinian refugees who live in exile, it's the biggest refugee population in the world. And most of them live in refugee camps and neighboring countries. So bits entire generations of people who've lived their whole lives, in refugee camps. So essentially, what we have here is in the past, I'd state and maintaining innovation, I studied yc, to do a whole lot of public relations work to convince the rest of the world. But actually, you are a beacon of human rights and democracy and the light on to the nation's and not an apartheid state at all. [00:29:15] And that's where the end is yell comes in. [00:29:19] BNZL as part of this marketing campaign event, but as YALI state has created, which I'm proud of it is to promote as yet as a gay friendly, catchy. And really, this is a two pronged approach on one hand, promoting his yell as this modern democratic liberal country where women have equality and queer people have equality. And at the same time, it's about constructing Arabs and Muslims in general, but specifically Palestinians as conservative and patriarchal and homophobic and violent. So it's, again about that dichotomy of them and us it's about situated as EL as part of the waste and life of waste and saturating Palestinians as part of the scary to US East. So that's exactly the kind of Orientalism but EN was talking about. [00:30:20] For example, [00:30:25] I don't know if any of you have seen this image before it was circulated on the internet. [00:30:33] Does anyone know the history of the picture? Is he [00:30:40] okay, so first of all, the image on the guy is a little bit misleading. The two soldiers and the photo actually luvvies, and one of them is heterosexual. The photo was staged by the defense for spokespersons office, they got to have the soldiers and Miss Davis to pause for this photo. And they posted it on their Facebook page with the caption, its Pride Month. Did you know that the IDF today all of its soldiers equally, let's see how many shows you can get through this photo. It was quite an embarrassment for them when it was lady revealed that entire thing was staged. [00:31:20] Meanwhile, the image on the left is [00:31:23] completely incorrect the spot in Palestine, it's wrong. [00:31:29] And it was circulated a lot in the Western media. [00:31:34] I guess in the early 2000s. [00:31:38] Of the two boys in the photo who are headed by The Guardian state. The reason is unclear originally Western media efforts will be put in but they were hanged for having consensual sex with each Avenue. But human rights NGOs didn't find any evidence of a corroborate that, and later going to manage but it's more likely that they will have for vaping or younger boring. [00:32:02] Either way, it's horrific. You know, the death penalty is never Okay, especially when it's used against children. But this is an example of a way but information about human rights violations get some interpolated in order to justify imperialist intentions, whether it's against Palestinians, Lloyd and Steve and [00:32:24] how did we end is your [00:32:25] campaign has been about promoting as well as a gay tourism destination. And [00:32:31] I guess it's [00:32:33] kind of a double one because on the one hand, it's a propaganda one for this day. It's also good to the economy again, it's about this idea of pink dollars, but apparently all guys have millions of to spend. [00:32:45] So these guys [00:32:46] villains and Bruno CS gay ch capital to get married after legalized same sex marriage earlier this year. I'm the CEO of Tel Aviv global and tourism, he la over and came up with this amazing marketing idea where she invited was couple to come and honeymoon in Tel Aviv during Tel Aviv. So you actually have to congratulate here, it's a great PR plan. And she knows, you know, she told the times of Israel, the meaning beneath our mission is to provide an conversation about Tel Aviv for people to know about Tel Aviv as a place of tolerance of business and tourism a place to beyond the conflicts, you know, a place beyond the conflict that is built on forgiveness of ethnically cleanse villages, but nevertheless A Place Beyond the conflict. Vincent told us the early media that through us, it's very important to be a bitch, especially here in the Middle East. So that what's happened in France and the way we received and raised here you can become an example for the west of the Middle East. So there you have it, again, that imperialist countries like is EL and finance as this beacon of enlightenment that will teach those backwards, Middle East people how you should be more tolerant. [00:34:11] This kind of pink washing [00:34:12] has found its way to New Zealand as well. [00:34:18] Does anyone remember this black head? Yeah, [00:34:24] so it's quaver nights 2011. Someone showed up with this QOSEL placard. So here we have an event, which lots of people who put heaps of work into organizing that was supposed to be about standing up against appreciation, specifically transphobia and homophobia. And somehow somebody managed to juggle it and use it as an opportunity to incite discrimination and prejudice against Arab and Muslim people. Of course, sometimes pink washing is a lot subtler than that. I read this and experience a few months ago. It's about well, it's an opinion piece on how Auckland should have applied center. But as an example of a use of gay Cultural Center in Tel Aviv, which I don't know if you can see it very clearly in that photo. It's got a couple of small rainbow flags and this ginormous le flag, which is like, you know, as long as the room and covers the entire building. And you know, I don't blame the guy who wrote this article for being impressed with Tel Aviv having a gay cultural center because TV was a really cool city. It's got a cool cuisine. And it probably seems really innocuous on the surface. But talking about how great Tel Aviv is for queers, while ignoring the wider context of racism and ethnic cleansing exactly how pink washing wigs and I'm seeing a Schulman who's a Jewish American lesbian, gay, it put it really well. And she said, Teletubbies as a thesis behind it is reality, CF profound, efficient and violation of human guys. And here's the thing that a lot of people miss, and when we talk about pink washing, and when they use pink washing arguments transphobia and homophobia is limited to Arab and Muslim societies. As Yeah, as an incredibly homophobic and transphobic society. New Zealand has its own problems with anti queer condition, which we all way too aware of. And more than that, I think people tend to see struggles against transphobia homophobia and sexism as separate from struggles against racism and colonization. Really, really, and they can't be fought separately very two intertwined and Palestine in particular, they were all part of the same matrix of violence and oppression. And that's not that comes through in really practical ways. For example, if it is yeah, early security services five advert a Palestinian is gay or TM is they will use that against them and blackmail them into becoming an informant for as yell and they refuse to invade will ask them to go from you know, they even though it could put their life in danger. So these things are really connected on a festival label. And that's why Palestinian queer groups like our house, a SWAT and Palestinian quiz for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, or work to fight both anti oppression and racism, racism and colonialism I physiologic state [00:37:36] at the same time, [00:37:38] and he is Helene Vikki, who's a Palestinian queer activist and the founder of our calves [00:37:46] talking about [00:37:50] rejecting the kind of pink washing arguments that the state makes, which is yet often argues that it's acting to protect Palestinian Yes, and I've heard the claimed that Palestinian guys find your future in SEO. That's not really too. [00:38:09] So unlike [00:38:10] Russia, where local LGBT groups have advised against a boycott, Palestinian queer groups actually endorsed the Palestinian call for boycott, divestment and sanctions on as well. In 2005, Palestinian civil society groups launched a BDS campaign and a part of his campaign has been the Queen BDS BDS sentence for boycott, divestment, and sanctions, which is specifically about challenging pink washing and the Palestinian quiz for boycott, divestment, and sanctions as one of the groups that has been formed to work on queer BDS. Service to energy of BDS is to use non violent tactics to force us to address its occupation, depiction of Palestinians in the occupied Palestinian territories and as EL and exiles, and directly nearly basic demands, and whichever ones that Palestinian groups have agreed, as a minimum basic that I needed to some kind of justice to be achieved and for some kind of peace to be possible. [00:39:27] And he recently launched to the outer BDS network, after a nationwide conference, I face campaign is focusing on G forest, which is a private security company that provides prisons and checkpoints for as well. So in that sense, I think it has a lot of overlap with local and global issues are we and in castigation, and because of globalization, and we inviting LGBT organizations to sign on to the next event, we are going to send superfans to ask them to Davis big shoes, and G for us. So if you want to learn more, you can come along to our campaign launch, which is in the weeks time at Festival Hall. This is going to be workshops, and music and food and poverty, you can learn all about their campaign and how you can get involved. And also, I got a bunch of leaflets along today. So if anyone wants to do your own research, I've got a list of some useful books and also websites when where you can learn more. [00:40:37] And now I think [00:40:38] Nadia is going to speak more specifically on Um, [00:40:42] well, I'm feminist nationalism. [00:40:56] Hi, everybody, my name is Nadia a little bit. So I'm going to try and keep this relatively short as well, because I feel like a lot of the points have kind of started to already be fleshed out, or what I really want to do is kind of just add to that a little bit. And I want to add to that, from the perspective of a Palestinian, who has spent quite a bit of time in Palestine and Israel, and also someone who's spent a lot of time living in the UK and New Zealand. And I'm really glad that I'm getting to have this conversation, because actually, it's probably one of my least favorite things to talk about is women in the Middle East, because so often, what I feel is that as soon as that emerges, people feel this instant, sort of like, they're waiting for me to say that the the assumptions and the things that they already have. And when I say things that contradict those assumptions, they seem a little bit like throw, when I say things that play into those assumptions, they were really, really seem to Yeah, I get that. Oh, yeah, no, it must be terrible, it must be really, really hard for women over there. So I think that we all already have to acknowledge that we already have ideas about this stuff. And I think even as a Palestinian, you know, I see them in myself. And it's sometimes just about our learning and recognizing why things are framed the way they are why we have the narrative that we have, naturally just picking out about a little bit inside. Why is that the West so familiar with the image of someone like Mullah, you know, who's at the moment just hanging out with our bar. And it's like, on the one hand, we've got this woman you see here, and you know, a totally young woman, who you guys all know who I'm talking about, right? Who, you know, we see taking the world stage. And it's not very often that you see, you know, a 16 year old or 14 year old, 15 year old Pakistani woman talking about, you know, the right to education, a forum. But I think that with some Allah, Allah, Allah, it's important to remember that she serves a purpose. And that's why, you know, she has her own agency, but she's for people like Obama, for people like Gordon Brown, who voted for the war in Iraq, and now saying, Oh, you know, like, we really need to support women's rights in the middle a, that for them, she simply said the purpose because they're not going to bring up you know, I'm just going to break trigger warning here. I'm not going to go too much into it. But yeah, a bit of a story of [00:43:36] sexual abuse and rape and [00:43:39] that there was a young young woman the same young girl same ages, as masala called appear Kasim, Hamza, Jeanette, Abby, who, you know, none of us know the name of like, I can actually put that out there. I didn't know her name until three days ago. And the, you know, what happened to her was, during the occupation of Iraq, five, US soldiers actually died, right. And then proceeded to move her entire family house down. And I think the thing is, is that so often, when we're talking about culture, and we're talking about culture, in reference to coaches of violence, or coaches of violence against women, we're always talking about coach them at least, and one of my favorite speakers on this issue is level hard. And what she says is, I'm going to say something here, that's, that's what we don't talk about culture. Because often these arguments are so unevenly distributed. And I think it's a really dangerous thing today to to attribute these things to culture, because we don't attribute you know, for example, the cultures Will she says, What if she was dependent something as a culture, that that promotes on she would say, it was a culture of militarism, and a culture of militarism? And, and, like, you know, the occupation invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, or Israel through Palestine, is actually what we go, we don't deny that to Protestant, or Catholic or Christian or, Well, today, or Judaism, which is called politics, you know, and it's related to economics, and it's related to all this stuff. And so I think, if we are talking about this stuff in the West, then we need to actually be asking, okay, this is cultural militarism. And our question is, and how do we, you know, stop these awful cultures doing these things, that it's women? How do we stop this culture of militarism, that's actually stopping these women from moving, stopping these women from, you know, being able to organize and do everything that they need to do really. And so to round off that bit, because I think I could talk, you know, for a long time about a lot of the things that have fled women in the Middle East, and I could go on to talk about the occupation of Palestine, you know, for a long time, but actually want to do something a bit different, which is I want to talk about some of the women I know that you know, fight these things in our own lives. And because that's the argument that I want to make is that, you know, these these things they come about, they can't be imposed. Women themselves are organizing and doing that thing in the Middle East very well and have been doing so for a long time. [00:46:34] And so I want to talk about [00:46:38] first of all, I want to support my grandma, who is fucking awesome. And she when she was like, 14, her up and she had like seven brothers. And she decided she wants to smoke a pot. And so she is I picked up a pipe and she was smoking his pipe now because my brother smoked pot, and everyone was like, not sure whether you should be smoking the pipe, or she was that I'm going to do it. She doesn't she doesn't this day, she still smokes a pipe. I know, that's a really small example. But to me, that's just that's just one of many of the women that I know that do these things. I think he about my MZ Silva, who, you know, her husband's, my uncle has been a political prisoner for pretty much their entire married life, you know, merely for organizing, you know, merely for being someone who is politically active in the way that we are right now in this room. He, you know, he spent a long, long time in Israeli presidents. And right up at the front of every March, you have Salwa on the megaphone, shouting at people, and just absolutely, you know, just really, really dumb watching all those arguments, you hear about these women, because she does to me, she represents everything that inspires me. And she, you know, she would not miss a match. And when my dad went to get married, they need. So if I could, different signatories, and I need to now secretaries and she just actually just cool the guy at the judge at the office and just said, I'll sign it, I'll sign it. And that's just, you know, I know so many women like that, that are doing that thing. And I think, you know, when you think about the things that affect these women, the stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum, when, actually, so many of the loss and so many of the hurt, and so many of the things that happened, these women isn't about their family, you know, in the same way that that when they to think it is you know, that these familiar, like sort of patriarchal in the community is like, really oppressing these women. It's actually, you know, it's actually the occupation, for example, in Palestine, which shot my step, mom's brother in front of her when she was 12 years old, you know, that's the most scary experience of her life. She went on to work in a university on earth flat, and do nothing. But, you know, that was that's what's charged her, you know, those experiences. And because also, when we're talking about women, I think, you know, Ian and Ali touched on this a little bit, will always do dehumanizing Palestinian man is like these sort of, like, backward, disgusting, terrorist, you know, [00:49:21] like, sexist people. [00:49:26] And I think about my dad. And I think about the fact that when my mom and dad divorced, my mom says all the time, that when people here, she has an Arab last name, and that she was married to a Palestinian, they always say all, that must have been hard. She does not, it wasn't, he was a great dad and a great husband, you know, it just wasn't the person for me. But I already have this idea about, they already have this idea about what my dad is, like, they've never been met and have no idea who he is. But they already have the idea that he is this person, the seminar, they haven't said it, like a lot, the last set of flex loan in the Middle East has actually seen sons saying, That part is seeing that fathers and that brothers, you know, in prison, because that is an absolute likelihood, you know, my single brother in Palestine hasn't spent time in prison being tortured, and, and whatnot. Or, you know, actually being killed, like my step mom's brother, or, you know, just not being able to participate the way they want to participate, and not being able to move the way they want to move. And the other thing, the last thing I want to say is that I think it's interesting, like how much these things kind of infiltrate the way we think can actually affect us here. And I really liked what he said about, you know, thinking about the enemy, you know, that we have here, because I found it really interesting. We had a friend, a journalist come over from Gaza, young, a young blogger, cold user, and he was telling me about the group they run in Gaza, you know, where they live on the stage. And as a mass roll, we're constantly hearing about how press women in Gaza. And when you said came over here, became upset Palestine conference, we had an Oakland. Now I was witnessing to him the whole time about the absolute lack of representation of women, and of our women and women of color as men of color that we have at our conference. Adam, Kate was talking to me about the group that he is a part of, which is a group of youth, bloggers, writers, activists, and actually 80% of them are women. And, you know, they're the ones writing the articles, that are the ones moving and actually organizing so much politically [00:51:52] in the youth movements of Gaza. [00:51:56] And, you know, being Ali was just remarking how interesting, we found, you know, we thought we'd come so much further, [00:52:02] yeah, in our own community. [00:52:05] You know, we were struggling to get heard, where women in Gaza are, you know, having these groups where basically, they set the agenda. And so I think that's really interesting point for reflection. And, yeah, that's kind of where I want to end it. And I just want to say for question time, that I'm really excited to hear, you know, the kind of questions that people have about golf a bit. If anybody asks me any questions about golf, [00:52:33] I think we'll be back. [00:52:39] Spice and I do acknowledge that, and I want to say as well, that, you know, like, I'm learning a lot of people here, and I really appreciate being able to come into this space, you know, I'm not a part of the queer community. But I really appreciate, I think, you know, tying these things together, and just seeing the way that they do, actually, you know, these structures of power, Lee often just totally abuse and use our struggles, you know, be it like as Palestinian women, or as queer [00:53:07] or as trans, [00:53:10] you know, to actually legitimize the fucked up things they do. So that's, that's [00:53:16] kind of what I want to say. And I want to kind of welcome and equal, people want to have around the stuff and welcome to kind of like a hearty discussion. [00:53:35] I actually prepared a talk that was meant to presenters last night, on the panel fighting homophobia and transphobia, and bigotry in our communities. But given the context of things that happened yesterday, and dealing with racism and white centrism in the free community, I didn't have an energy speaker last night. [00:54:03] And I've been hearing stuff that everyone's been talking about, and this panel of [00:54:11] gonna change the talk a little bit to be more relevant about [00:54:16] former nationalism. And actually, my top priority was touching on that. But maybe more explicitly. I'll talk about that today. [00:54:29] So [00:54:33] I'm also speaking as a member of sexy Community Council, which is a famous organizations in family violence, and gender based violence, an Asian milsom African communities and welfare work. And I'm also speaking as a member of the youth unit. But not everything I say, will reflect the views of everyone and the organization. [00:55:01] And I also want to just give a disclaimer that the way presidents talk may not be very coherent, but that's also deliberate. Because I don't think my sexuality culture, community or agenda is very coherent. So [00:55:17] my speech should be expected to be either and I think that's okay. [00:55:23] So I kind of took down notes while everyone else is speaking. And I thought it'd be good to talk about cultural imperialism as another form of imperialism that happens, and queer communities an alto [00:55:39] in terms of [00:55:41] cultural domination, and [00:55:45] it's not just a process, but a condition that we live in. [00:55:51] Particularly [00:55:53] as people of color, or [00:55:57] just people that fit, cultural imperialism is quite visible. And you know, we use categories from Western psychology from sexual, heterosexual, bisexual, and those categories seem to be applied universally. And I use the term queer and trans is also another manifestation of it. I think that's a really important part to acknowledge in terms of colonization. [00:56:29] Initially, I was going to talk a bit about [00:56:32] some of my experiences, kind of coming out to my parents. And [00:56:41] also, [00:56:44] it's something that I find quite hard to talk about, and don't really popular cuisines because of the assumptions that play into about the homophobia that happens in Chinese communities. But I think I will, because it also illustrates the complexity of being a migrant on colonized land and the kind of colonization consciousness that happens through religion, and whether that kind of framework of justifying homophobia still be the conversion to Christianity didn't happen. [00:57:30] So [00:57:33] I think for queer and trans people from Asian releasing African backgrounds, not all cultures are actually homophobic, or transphobic, necessarily, as there is a lot of diversity in those communities, within each culture, and also between them. But [00:57:55] I've kind of [00:57:59] shown a lot strength from connecting with other people, [00:58:03] from those backgrounds, and from people color in general. You know, we've supported each other through stuff. Because what we want to really understand we go through. And for many of us, coming out isn't always an option or risk we're willing to take, because the potential of cutting ties with our families is a lot harder. [00:58:29] So I can only really talk about my experiences about this. And [00:58:36] I thought about it for a long time before [00:58:40] telling my parents that I had a girlfriend that, [00:58:48] you know, it's a kind of back and forth thoughts about [00:58:51] family violence or discernment. [00:58:55] But at the end of the day, when I did do that, that doesn't happen, although they were convinced that it's a son and a mental illness. And they kept saying really confused because they thought it was not a form of sexual gene and our family. So how could this happen. And they're quite popular homophobic explanations, and they also blame Shakti for it, because working video and see the bad side of heterosexual relationships, mainly. And I just think it's something that they didn't really understand. And also, our experiences migrants and Auckland was facing social exclusion and racism as the norm exacerbated that homophobia because moving to Alto, they were generally quite socially isolated. And while there were a few families from our hometown, but they're not being able to speak English made it really hard to find a community that was supportive. So when I was eight or nine, my mom converted to Christianity and made it for Nelson the family convert to Christianity, because there were Chinese speaking churches, where you know, the ideals of heterosexual marriage as the way God intended things actually made it really hard for my friends to not be homophobic and with sermons advocating against the marriage equality bill. [01:00:24] A new kind of I asked him if I wanted to sign that petition was like, oh god, this is before I came up to him. I'm just like, I don't support marriage in general. [01:00:35] But we met Phil past. You know, I kind of use humor as a way of like dealing with this stuff. And I told my mom that like, maybe finally fulfill her wish and get married. [01:00:47] And she was just looked at me was like, disgust me. And I laughed because it she a joke. [01:00:55] Never going to get right despatched. [01:01:00] Margaret communities where it's so small, and most people know each other rumors, and gossip can be really alienating. And there's a lot more at stake for our families and with some racist and homophobic context because of us. And that colonization of consciousness through religion, because of migration, and social hostility and exclusion, from the dominant culture makes it harder for my family, not just for me if I'm out. And as many of the other panelists have already talked about this, a common perception that Asian cultures are more conservative and homophobic or transphobic, sexist and violent, which in our replies that white people from Western Europe or Anglophone, colonial civil societies are more progressive when it comes to gender relations, sexuality and sexual identity. [01:02:01] That's racist and can really exist about homophobia and transphobia. And how communities and for white people to be exploiting these tensions and highlighting that homophobia and transphobia on social media or whatever, and our community exacerbates racism. So given the kind of interconnection and entanglement of homophobia and racism and transphobia [01:02:31] I think we really need to think about queer liberation in a way that [01:02:37] takes into account all those intersections. [01:02:41] The dominant idea of queer liberation is to be a really popular way to sexual liberation. And I think queer liberation can look quite differently and requires different strategies, depending on the different communities that we come from or associate with. And I don't think it's okay to universalised with center park here. We're entering some activities for participating the question, especially on colonize land. [01:03:25] Because in that, [01:03:28] in that sense, to be liberated, often means to assimilate, and that just encourages those orientalist discourses, the assumptions of Western civilization or invalid superiority. And I don't know how many people here watch the speeches in Parliament about gay marriage. I'm trying to people said New Zealander as, as you know, we New Zealanders should not tolerate this kind of using [01:04:03] language to further collaboration, which excludes particular minority groups in the country. [01:04:20] And I'd actually like to hear from other people [01:04:26] who [01:04:28] people of color are identifies indigenous about this topic, especially around cultural imperialism and racism and communities. [01:04:37] Because I think that's really important to have discussions about this. Can I [01:04:47] open it up for discussion? [01:04:52] Erica, like you said, it's about how to, [01:04:56] I had to I took that other stuff and let it say five months. I think I [01:05:15] think I really want to acknowledge that. [01:05:23] But all my friends and you know, out is how I tried to equip people color here and internationally and homeless or Doesburg colonized lens [01:05:36] have been really important and [01:05:40] feeling like you know, I can exist initiative exists. And that these like transnational connections, the visibility and articulation of migrant and refugee experiences of homophobia and transphobia, despite the risks and dangers involved in the sparring, such a homophobia, phobia and the communities [01:06:02] especially in like what dominated and queer [01:06:07] and feminist spaces, there were people that really inspire me anything, [01:06:14] I wouldn't really be able to speak of that. [01:06:17] That kind of work hadn't been done before me, [01:06:28] identifies and [01:06:31] identifies music. [01:06:39] He says that, [01:06:46] he says, so this can be conservative, like I really did. [01:06:53] And for somebody like yourself, really, [01:06:58] I mean, for from my mother, I guess, [01:07:01] to piggyback on the subconscious signals within this within. [01:07:06] But at the end of the day, we just want [01:07:07] to say that without protection, thinking better, or actually, to deal with today, me coming out to my parents, [01:07:16] my father is consumed, as perhaps ultimately [01:07:29] at least originated. [01:07:33] Despite the same at one point, you know, Chinese culture is very conservative. [01:07:39] So she bought [01:07:42] it, I bought into it. But [01:07:51] I think it's really easy to internalize those ideas. Yeah. [01:08:00] Obviously, [01:08:11] thinking about, for example, [01:08:18] the idea of being conservative [01:08:19] on something and cultures is important of [01:08:23] cultural colonialism. And [01:08:32] think about [01:08:33] culture and think about these relationships. [01:08:37] Yeah, I think even like a category of Asian is like a really broad and problematic one that [01:08:49] one show at this point, we we know about the Trojan [01:08:55] horse culture [01:08:57] that we know that isn't symbol of [01:09:02] the community pops off of it's very complimentary thing. [01:09:07] There is a tendency sometimes to see the other and very homogenous me with science. And in that [01:09:16] completely different from a [01:09:20] book, or possibly just too many contradictions and [01:09:26] complexity. [01:09:30] Yeah, that's true. I think the [01:09:34] issue is that when they're [01:09:37] closed, those tensions and [01:09:41] other cultures, that becomes a [01:09:46] source of [01:09:51] like, often the kind of like feminists and like a cultures ignore, like, not seeing is existing in the kind of dominant culture? [01:10:08] Yeah, I think those tensions get exploited for racist agenda. [01:10:20] Bit of a physically fit, because if you can share your story [01:10:29] around it, so thank you. Yes, my name is I mean, I was totally hit play. And they're all special. So one of the things [01:10:43] one of the things that staples, one of the things that struck me most about the [01:10:49] positions that came to [01:10:54] me was really regretted without the most visible opposition to it was for [01:11:02] those who probably state [01:11:06] champions, which [01:11:08] was amazing, [01:11:10] as well. [01:11:13] And [01:11:17] unfortunately, that was that was the case. [01:11:20] I [01:11:22] do think that [01:11:25] there was some truth to that. [01:11:28] The Chinese and [01:11:34] one of those two sisters had to my take on [01:11:45] it very well, to [01:11:49] you, I spoke to an incredible race. [01:11:53] It's very regrettable [01:11:57] effect. One thing with that was, you know, one of the comments that was made around that time was the people who are opposed to that should go back on [01:12:06] the back include Craig. [01:12:13] But also, you [01:12:16] know, that knows, the books. Hello, Patty itself, saw that with the net dynamic of like, conservative PIUU members opposed crowd Robinson because he's gay. And it's like, you know, mph look at all the research and stuff that's coming out in it. What was interesting is that [01:12:35] the Jews, the research that's coming out is that Yeah, [01:12:39] API communities are no more homophobic, then aka community. But again, this truck and it's like SUEDE, IF you go down to a meeting of 3000 people, you're going to find a team conservative people in there that you can get soundbite from and a PR community and stuff. And it's multifaceted. A quiet, compound complex, let's and let's see. [01:13:04] important language that [01:13:05] quite those stereotypes are quite easy to fall back on. [01:13:10] When white people talk, they're not seen as representing the community. It's like, [01:13:18] the silence. Like, you could have said that 30 years ago, when white culture was just as concerned as any other culture. Does that [01:13:33] help coaches and coaches? Get a good point? [01:13:40] One thing as twice, and then it wouldn't even be called the 90s white culture being against marriage equality, it would be people against marriage, marriage equality, it would be framed must be right. It would be Yeah, [01:13:53] people religious or political views, nothing like nothing was like a culture kind of, [01:13:59] like you skin. [01:14:01] And I can make the [01:14:05] Christian church and become become become further contact, the story of lots of [01:14:18] non white doctors [01:14:19] wouldn't speak on. But they would call [01:14:21] us [01:14:23] any pets transphobia. [01:14:27] And even just like the idea that there's like two sixes and churches above the bar, [01:14:31] you know, that's like [01:14:32] why people show [01:14:34] up. And it's kind of like, so anything that has come from people, [01:14:39] as a result of [01:14:40] colonization [01:14:50] still blamed on us. [01:14:56] I mean, obviously. [01:15:02] But is the only place in the world that have been explored. It's [01:15:10] not really what I guess it is. [01:15:21] Even, you know, even if that's not precisely the case, the gender and sexuality system that is currently dominant is the one that [01:15:29] exploded globally outside. [01:15:34] I guess I just want to [01:15:36] bring up the fact that someone mentioned before that it was a really white space, which it totally is. And I was just wondering, I don't know who the right person even answer this question. But would it be appropriate for the last half hour office to discussion among people of color and should ask why these ladies think of some space? [01:15:56] But I don't know if there's this person out [01:15:57] there, or even if anyone would want [01:15:59] to put themselves out the answer it [01:16:00] sorry. I just took was was thinking [01:16:04] is also a pretty broad. [01:16:07] I mean, we could like, yeah, we could have. [01:16:30] Yeah, I think that homophobia stuff is something that can be. [01:16:37] But also, the strategies of collaboration can also be exported from, you know, to the US or whatever, to other places. And that also needs to be question is, you know, [01:16:53] I think, I don't know, no, [01:16:56] I really [01:16:57] appreciate you sharing I experience of coming as well. He said, You know, you're fulfilled in not wanting to paint people's assumptions. And that's kind of something I was thinking about. [01:17:09] And I think that was someone was like, No, you need to be like, there's a lot of trust involved in that, instead of saying, I'm going to tell you something might play into your assumptions, right now, [01:17:22] the knowledge that you're going to say the complexities, because I think it's really good if we can have a conversation and [01:17:27] say, Look at this, like this, and it was like this for me. [01:17:31] And this might play into this and [01:17:33] this assumption, but I want to flesh out [01:17:35] your argument. [01:17:37] Some, I really appreciate that you. You did say that. Because, [01:17:42] you know, I know, in my conversations with some of my friends, we sort of say that we don't talk about some of the more success elements of things that happen within our within certain groups of people, because [01:17:57] we know that that immediately will be all well here. [01:18:00] So I think just to acknowledge that you did shine, I think is [01:18:05] something we should [01:18:08] do because it does take a lot of trust the source I'm giving this information and you do not miss us Do not [01:18:16] misconstrue what I'm saying, because I've been in situations with [01:18:22] you know, sinus and X ray soldiers actually, they've been quite liberal, and have had long conversations with and still quite uncomfortable. These are people who haven't been occupying literally, I literally probably couldn't turn [01:18:39] my family, [01:18:40] you know. And so we were talking talking and then, you know, somehow I fell into the trap of talking about some of my experiences of [01:18:51] sexism [01:18:55] and [01:18:57] pages, guys, yes. Say, you know, ultimately, this isn't this is the bottom line. This is the bottom line for us. You know, that's why you'll you know, you'll never want that and that's why [01:19:13] we need to protect Israel and you see why I do the work that I do. And that was it for him. It [01:19:23] does take a lot of trust.

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